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Re: DRIVE the LOOP or be DRIVEN?

this thread is entering into misinformed territory.

i have owned "Logic Audio" since back when it was "Creator" owned by the german company "CLab"   in the mid 80's.
for a long time now, its human external tempo option has been a very rewarding and useable tool.

this is what it does:

• it accepts midi note input as tempo signals to be interpreted, hence the name "Tempo Interpreter"
• it can also accept this from many different sources. therefore a group of musicians (midi drums, keyboard etc.) can all play together and the average is calculated.
• these midi signals drive the tempo of the current song.
• if you are recording this in realtime, then the varying human tempo is recorded into a tempo track.
• on playback, the song varies JUST AS U RECORDED IT.
• except, u can now QUANTISE ur performance and tighten it up even though it STILL FEELS HUMAN as the tempo track still varies the recording according to ur original performance.
• this also means that u can print out the score normally. something u would not be able to do if it were all recorded freely.

this is how it works:

• the interpreter only accepts notes for timing interpretation based on a preferenced subdivision eg. 1/4 notes.
• u can play any rhythmic pattern in 16ths whatever and only those notes falling on the 1/4 note will be recognized.
• in case of an obvious mistake or triplets, a window around the 1/4 note subdivision is given as a preference. outside this window, everything is ignored.
• a pre determined buffer can also be set. this limits the range that the tempo can change in any one interpretation of a qualified midi note thus making ur tempo changes for realistic and smooth. it can also be off if ud so like.

so in summary the computer will follow the timing of the player whether recording or playing back.
it WORKS. and very well.

what i have wanted for a long time is a hardware version of this that could work on analog pulse input instead of midi.
this would enable my drummer to DICTATE the tempo.
it worked in my studio on a prerecorded piece driven by a drummer playing midi pads so i dont see why the same logic would not work with different input types. same thing really.

"logic audio" algorithm, non midi trigger inputs.

Adrian Bartholomew

On Nov 17, 2005, at 6:04 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
loop.pool wrote:
If you are skeptical of this statement then I enjoin you to download the midi tap tempo freeware plugin from
Analogue X and practise tapping to music that you know that has a steady rhythm.
Try as hard as you can and just be amazed at how much your rhythm timing will vary from beat to beat.

Because the software has no idea what a groove is, its not programmed that way.

Even when you take a program that averages your tempo over four beats or even four bars you will continue to vary
your BPM.

Same reason as above.

Why the human being is so much better at playing to a loop (or entraining with a human being) than the machine
is to reading our playing and then sending out a sync pulse is because we stretch our rhythms to entrain in a way
that it would be virtually impossible for a computer to read (at least in the forseeable future).

Certainly a computer would be able to do that, but I also have the problem, that I never found an "algorythm" to incorporate it into my Max patches. Though I think it should not be too difficult. It just has to do it like a good drummer does it. (So far all beat matching toys are just very bad drummers)

The software has to predict when the next beat will come, and play its beat at that moment, then if its off, adjust its own modell to predict it better for the next beat. Just averaging the last beats will always lead to results which are too late. How else should you be able to track an acceleration or a ritardando?

The other approach would be to give the drummer a pad to directly trigger the loop each time. You could even determine a stretch factor according to the time between triggers for the next playthrough of the loop...

Just some thought of somebody who build usually his tools all by himself...



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        Stefan Tiedje
    Electronic Composition

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