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Re: Maybe why Avante-garde looping in US...

Interesting conversation!  Something bizarre happened to me when I started
looping in the free improv context. Before that, I had played mostly in 
3/4, and 6/8 time because of my jazz background (I love 6/8 by the
way....Footprints, is a good example), and in the early 90's when I was
playing in a power trio I was doing very technical progressive rock
originals in 7/8, 11/8, etc.  However, when I started improv looping, one
night I realized that I had stopped thinking about time signature, 
I merely sat down, started playing and whatever happened, happened....in 
case where I was looping repeatable rhythms, I had no idea was time
signature I was playing in, and I didn't really care...it was un-important.
Then a percussionist started playing with me and he suggested how hard it
was to play to my rhythmic loops, and I gathered this some nights when I'd
look over at him, and he would be counting under his breath or had a 
look on his face. It turned out that I was looping in very odd time
signatures, such as 13/8, 11/8, 9/8, or what he humorously suggested one
time, 11 1/2 / 8, which would be 23/8.  I had no idea I was doing this, but
I was able to loop this way and improvise and solo over my material with no
problem. But it was killing Vinnie!  On the flip side, if you played a 13/8
progression to me and told me to improvise over it, it would somehow seem
harder, because then I would be conscious of the odd time signature and
would be trying to mold to it...yet when I unconsciously loop my own odd
time signatures, all difficulties disappear....I don't mold to the rhythm,
but become a part of it. It is almost as if I obtain this holistic
perception of the odd time signature...feeling it as a whole rather than
trying to analyze it's pieces.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <johnsrude@peak.org>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Maybe why Avante-garde looping in US...

>> By the way, if soloing over 7/8 seems daunting  write me off list and
>> I'll
>> show you some really simple exercises
>> to get free in that rhythmic space........................you'll see 
>> it
>> is actually no more complicated than playing in 4/4..............you 
>> haven't done it since you were a kid like they have there.
> You can actually get the hang of odd meter really fast if you don't count
> in
> numbers but in syllables, which takes advantage of our speech centers.
> Just
> about all European odd meters can be broken down into groups of two and
> three
> beats.  For the two beats say "Taki" and for the three beats say 
> So
> for two seven beat patterns:
> Taki-Taki-Gamela, Taki-Taki-Gamela,...
> or
> Gamela-Taki-Taki, Gamela-Taki-Taki,...
> If you ever hear Garaj Mahal perform "Poodle Factory" live, you'll hear
> this
> to hilarious effect.  They get the _whole_ audience to sing along at the
> maximum physically possible tempo the following loop:
> Poodle poodle factory, poodle factory
> Poodle poodle factory, poodle factory
> Poodle poodle factory, poodle factory
> Poodle factory, poodle factory, poodle factory
> which a musicologist might call three bars of 11/4 followed by three bars
> of 5/4.
> Cheers,
> Kevin
> www.TheNettles.com