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RE: MAX/msp question

but, building a max external to do the looping, with all the appropriate
'inlets/outlets' exposed, would do the trick for many people.. giving the 
developer access to all paramters, as well as allowing audio to be 
modified pre
and post... but, writing a robust looper in any programming environment 
easy.. :)


Quoting Jeff Larson <jeff.larson@sailpoint.com>:

> From: Stefan Tiedje [mailto:Stefan-Tiedje@addcom.de] 
> > Jeff Larson wrote:
> > > but I cannot imagine implementing them by drawing pictures
> > > in Max.  But I look forward to the Max-o-philes telling me I'm wrong
> :-)
> > Its called crossfade, you fade the end out while fading the beginning 
> > in. Very possible in Max. You just need to think about times. Your
> loop 
> > has to be longer by the crossfade time...
> Yes, I know about crossfade.  But saying something is possible in Max
> is like saying something is possible in C.  Lots of things are
> possible, but that doesn't mean they're easy, or that anyone will ever
> do them.
> A looper with the complexity of something like an EDP contains an
> enormous amount of logic, it isn't just data flow through a graph of
> connected objects.  The thing I find most awkward in Max are all those
> places where "you just need to think".   
> Expressing complex logic by connecting graphical objects like =, +, <,
> &&, abs, etc. is excruciating.  The next step of course is to start
> encoding logic in Javascript, but this requires greater technical
> skill.  Javascript is not a good language for writing large scale
> applications, so eventually you need Java which is quite powerful,
> and requires even more skill.  But it is difficult to debug
> because you're running inside a C application.   Java programmers
> are accustomed to using tools where you can set breakpoints and
> browse the memory model.  In Max you have to rely on trace messages
> which are very tedious.
> Or you could use C++ which is easier to debug, but at this point the
> audience is limited to hard core programmers, and a programmer is
> going to wonder whether to write something that will only run in Max,
> or do a bit more work and write a VST plugin or a standalone application
> that will run anywhere with no 3rd party entanglements.
> So, while I'm willing to believe that many things are theoretically
> possible in Max, I still maintain that you will never see a Looper
> that comes anywhere close to the complexity of the EDP written in Max.
> And I don't mean just a multi track looper with multiply and overdub.
> I mean unlimited undo, continuous feedback, MIDI synchronization,
> loop windowing, beat quantization, SwitchQuant, alternate endings,
> and a few hundred other things.  I wait to be proven wrong :-)
> Regards,
> Jeff

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