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Re: ontology and epistemology of aestheitics

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "samba -" <sambacomet@hotmail.com>

>   I wish  more critics employed Kris's approach. I much prefer 
> such as ,"I like x because it makes me feel x  to statements like,this 
> good,this is crap ,you'll be happy if you buy this etc.
>   Without getting into semiotics,I see meanings and asthetics as tending 
> to have cultural elements that aren't purely subjective. In a culture 
> fetishizes individuality,and pushes the value of indivudual choice, as 
> supports consumerism subjective aesthetics can be described as 
> based.

Good catch, Samba. I think you are correct. I believe this is where we 
subjectivism to cultural relativism (still not objectivism, IMO). It is an 
transition when the combined subjective and enduring emotive states of a 
or society gain enough momentum and solidarity to become a cultural 
This applies not just to aesthetics, but ethics, metaphysics, religion, 
However, this
is where it gets scary and can lead to mass belief in ideas to the extent 
that they are
considered universally true. I don't need to mention all the madmen in our 
who have led to the death and suffering of millions of human beings 
an idea
gained momentum in a society or culture. Mass acceptance does not entail 
truth and objectivity...otherwise, we'd still be pushing the flat earth 
models of the solar system.

And coming back to Andy's last response to my post, I think this above 
transition is what
can often lead to either a fallacious or misleading ways of talking about 
One common, non-philosophical idea of objectivity really has little to do 
epistemology (the study of the conditions for knowledge, etc) per se, but 
the idea of many people having a similar view point or agreeing that they 
or perceive the same way. This simply means that we are moving from one 
person's mind
to the collective overlap of multiple viewpoints. However, I would argue, 
again, that
this type of objectivity does not logically imply the type of objectivity 
discuss in
epistemology, where for a statement to be considered objective, it must 
a shared viewpoint, but Universally True. Very few, if any statements in 
of human though meet any degree of agreed upon criteria to achieve this 
status, perhaps
mathematical and logic statements, but those are empty of empirical 

Great thread....


>   I'm also interested in psychoacoustics,how the physical effects of 
> on the body affect mood,emotion etc. For example,loud fast rhythm being 
> exciting ,or creating the feeling of excitement seems neither  personal 
> cultural.Of course some individuals and societies may value such 
> excitement,some disdain it,some forbid it and others institutionalise 
> other words they assign values/aesthetics to the physical responses in a 
> culturally determined way,at least partially.
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