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Re: Missing the third dimension (II)



Title: Re: Missing the third dimension (II)
Hi Rune,

I've been a professional recording engineer / producer for over 25 years, and I will say that the answer below is number 4:  arrangement.  The other concerns are  trivial compared to arrangement.  I've mixed records that have been recorded in a bathroom using a laptop's built in microphone.  Those sounds are made valid by their context, i.e. the arrangement.

The problem is usually "50 pounds of potatoes in a 10 pound sack".   No converter / clocking superstition will solve that problem for you.  Plugins and processing are not the solution either, usually these just contribute to the mud caused by a bad arrangement.

 Have you heard the 1971 Javanese Gamelon recordings on nonesuch? These have tremendous depth and were recorded under some very difficult conditions on less than state of the are gear.  The recordings may be 'flawed' but this is one of the most captivating records I've ever heard.    External clocking cannot remedy the issues with 7.5ips tape flutter, but it really doesn't matter.  It's all in the arrangement of the sounds.

-Chuck  Zwicky


Hi again !

I misses depth and three dimensions in my recording. I can get two dimensions - high and wide sounds - but its hard to get any kind of depth. My recorded guitar or vocals often sounds flat and lifeless. So I take the flat and lifeless sounds (missing body) and put them in a room made up of a digital reverb. Its still flat and lifeless (without body) - but now in a "flat room" inside the computer, in lack of a better explanation. This is difficult to describe. Shoulden`t it be possible to make the singers head bigger - like a real head was singing to me, instead of this onedimensional voice? In my one work I misses instruments/voices that almost popps out of the speaker or that their in this nice ambient that glue it al together. And because I read to many magazines on sound and commersials, I`ve come to think; I got to buy better; converters, word clock, reverb, delays, mics, preamps etc. From your answers I understand this is a big topic.

1. Stereo recording (micking)
2. Better converters
3. External word clock
4. Arrangement
5. Eq - panning - masking
6. Room acoustics
7. Enough dsp power (freeze ableton)

1. Stereomicking.
The thing that got me wandering about recording and the lack of the third dimensions or depth, was that my liverecording with Edirol Field Recorder had a nice depth. A depth I often misses on my mac/motu recordings. The fieldrecorder has a stereomic and the recordings I make with it, has the sound of the liveroom. This recording technique is limiting - its just one track.Like Straschill writes, maybe stereo micking can get me some of what I am missing.

2. Better converters - external word clock.
I read inBehind the Glass II - Howard Massey, that top producers uses a external word clock (Ricard Sales also). Many uses Apogee Big Ben, even Pro Tools users. This opens the mix and makes depth. Whats this?

If one is using just one interface, is there a benefit of using external word clock or this a thing for studios with many interfaces and hardware units?

The latest Apogee 16x AD/DA interface has Big Ben word clock build in. I am thinking - maybe buying Apogee 16x AD/DA would get me what I misses, greate converters and Big Ben word clock and open mixes with depth? Any thoughts?

Sales, your not happy with Apogee, are you refering to Apogee 16x AD/DA or earlier models? I read greate things about Apogee, but I will check out Lynx, like you recommanded.

A silly question? When Big Ben is intergratet in Apogee 16x, is this a word clock good enough, or is external the key thing? Is the important thing a great word clock, or is external important?

7. Freeze functions - Ableton (enough power for plugins - making depth).
Boysen, is it possible to use freeze functions even when rendering the final mix? I have to admit - I have come to think I need to buy better reverb unit then oxford plugins, maybe the tc 6000. Any thoughts?

best regards Rune F.  



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