Re: Boomerang 3

[Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>]

Title: Re: Boomerang 3

Jeff,

Your question is what *can* you do to get the most out of this setup..   My advice is to avoid clipping the 2880 at all cost, so turn down the input gain, turn up your amp a bit.  I set the input gains on my 2880 all the way down (fully counterclockwise) when driving it from a multi effector, etc...

The 2880  A/d converter is 24bit,  so you will not hear quantization noise even if the signal is extremely low.. the concept of  "good signal level" is a bit outdated considering the  dynamic range of a 24 bit converter,  and you are certainly not going to get *more* noise if the input gain is turned down.  In modern digital recording (and loopers qualify as "recording") *lower* recording levels are your friend, clipping is your enemy.

The 2880 analog input circuit is very simple and clean, in practical use the noise from the effects and the guitar itself are going to dominate... the hiss isn't generated by the 2880, but by what's feeding it.   

The feature set of the Boomerang sounds very interesting, I haven't heard the new one yet... the early Boomerang never sounded very clean, but it had a nice texture..  :)   I'm always interested in unsynched loops, the RC-50  does that, too..  but I have really grown attached to the physical controls of the 2880 in live performance,  often fading out certain elements, and later bringing them back in, etc.. 

I think that if a looper doesn't impose itself on the work in some way , it isn't a musical instrument...

-Chuck

>  I always leave the input knobs 
> about 1/4. I know this is relative, I can turn down the fx before it
> but I get about the same results in range. The difference between
> where I would normally play at and a boosted signal to where a
> "lead" is, will clip it quickly. It seems about the same as
> my Vortex units maybe more, not much range between good signal and
> clip. I have read others comments from time to time on this but it is
> an issue for me. This is input clipping I am talking about. My DD 20
> and M9 never have this issue, I can feed them relatively big spikes
> without a clipping problem.
>
> I have tried many ways to compensate for this. Reducing my output at
> all stages, etc. I lose dynamics or notice hiss if I get too fussy
> with it.  If you have any ideas I am all ears Chuck!
>
> thanks,
> J
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:23 PM, Charles
> Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > Jeff,
> >   I completely understand what you're looking for,
> > and so I have been following this thread with some interest.  I
> > also use a 2880 (as well as a repeater), and I guess I don't quite
> > understand the headroom comment.. As long as you don't clip the signal
> > going in, you shouldn't have any headroom issues, and by using the
> > realtime feedback sliders, you can actually "duck" an
> > offensively clipped part of a loop.
> > How are your headroom problems manifest?
> >
> > -Chuck
> >
> > > ah, stiff! ok, I'll try...... Sorry ahead
> > > of time from the future. (I have read what I wrote now).
> > >
> > > When using a long delay for looping such as the Boss DD 20.... I will
> > > focus on what it can do that a phrase sampler such as the 2880/M9 and
> > > Boomer + can't.
> > >
> > > I can set the loop length before I press the effect on button by
> > > tapping the external momentary button. Or I can have it recording 
> > > and set it on the fly. I do it both ways.
> > >
> > > With it off  I can tap the loop length up to 23 sec then press
> > > the on button to begin playing/recording. Feedback is already on at
> > > whatever I have set it for. I can re tap the loop length shorter with
> > > one tap before I reach the max that is set or twice to set a longer
> > > loop (this is hard to explain but easy to do). This makes it very easy
> > > to zero in or correct the loop length in an improv situation. Re
> > > triggering the loop length is very important to me.
> > >
> > > Also the feedback knob may be adjusted at any time. Or I can get a
> > > riff or phrase going, turn the FB knob all the way up for infinite
> > > repeats. Press the effect off button and play over the top. Backing
> > > off a bit on the fb knob so it begins to fade I can press the advance
> > > preset and go to the next slot with it's own FB, loop level, loop
> > > length already set and ready to tweak the same way. In the meantime
> > > loop 1 is still fading out at whatever I have left it set at. And so
> > > on through the 5 preset locations.The caveat is that after more than
> > > one advance it cuts off the first one and you can't go back to an
> > > earlier one to tweak again. Not really an issue for me.
> > > I rarely get clicks from re triggering it this way, I get smooth
> > > drones always. It is a very free, expressive way to loop for me being
> > > an all improv hard ambient guy. Being able to leave one loop fading
> > > out while bringing in another is free and not stiff.
> > >
> > > I use it before the 2880 and after the M9 looper for the best of both
> > > worlds sort of :) The thing is that delays can't or haven't been made
> > > that can do the octave/reverse/stutter thing. Only phrase samplers can
> > > do that (so far).
> > >
> > > Sorry for the ramble. I guess stiff for me means being locked into a
> > > looped phrase with no way out except to let it fade if I'm lucky
> > > enough to have some kind of feedback control or just stop it cold. No
> > > way to adjust the length/feedback on the fly.
> > >
> > >  I do see that the Boomerang III with the expression pedal could
> > > be the perfect replacement for my 2880 which is what I had started
> > > this thread about oh so long ago, lol. The 2880 lacks headroom!!! I
> > > still need a good phrase sampler for the reverse/octave on the fly
> > > stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > all the best,
> > >
> > > j
> > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Mike <mnelson@boomerangmusic.com> wrote:
> > > > On 31-Oct-10 3:27 PM, Jeff Duke wrote:
> > > > > Yes I think so Sjaak, we do have a similar approach I
> > > > > think. I come from using delays for my looping and have
> > > > > never been really comfortable with "phrase samplers" which
> > > > > the Boomer is of course. Just too stiff for me.
> > > >        Please explain "stiff"
> > > > for me, Jeff. Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Mike Nelson
> > > > Secretary/Treasurer, Boomerang Management, Inc.
> > > > General Partner of Boomerang Musical Products, Ltd.
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > "Some products make you sound better;
> > > >  Boomerang(R) Phrase Samplers makes you play better."
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > 1-800-530-4699 * 1-817-421-2762, Outside USA * 1-817-251-8509, Fax
> > > >
> > > > http://www.boomerangmusic.com
> > > >
> > > > Contact for repairs:
> > > > Lee Hardesty
> > > > 1516 Victoria Drive
> > > > Denton, TX  76209
> > > > hardesty@mindspring.com
> > > > 940-382-3253
> > > >
> > > > Billing Address:
> > > > Boomerang Musical Products, Ltd.
> > > > PO Box 3788
> > > > Grapevine, TX  76099-3788
> >
> >
> > --
> > ...
> > http://www.zmix.net
> >
> > http://www.esession.com/ChuckZwicky
> >
> > http://albumcredits.com/zmix

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