From ???@??? Thu Jan 02 10:40:12 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 1 22:13:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vfgPP-0006BS-00; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:13:43 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:16:06 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: looping /GIG! Resent-Message-ID: <"k_xZ6.A.PnF.sF1yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1528 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:13:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 72a6b637673b613a8d15844eea5ba7d7 >Torn is on his way to Japan to work with Ryuichi Sakamoto... he will >improvise (and loop) alongside djSpooky (scratching and looping what-not) and >Ryuichi (piano) ... >there's also (i understand) a plan to send RS's piano performance out live >over the internet as midi information for people to mess with... >sounds fabulous, na? Thanks, Robby I hope they also send DTs Plex MIDI data so we can sync up and learn! :-) Matthias From ???@??? Thu Jan 02 10:40:14 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 1 22:14:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vfgQN-0006E5-00; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:14:43 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:17:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Paradis Loop Delay vs. Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"E6tC8C.A.HuF._G1yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1529 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:14:43 -0800 X-UIDL: d9413e705966d54074bce2a412a7c8b5 Michael asked: >What do you think are the most important differences between the two boxes? - smaller, lighter - special Pedal-Board with 7 Keys, connected with an ordinary 1/4" cable. - less noise - Output-Volume control - up to 9 independent Loops, between which you can switch and copy in various manners. - MIDIclock out: the tempo of a drum-machine can be defined by the loop length. - 28 Parameters, that are not lost at power off and do not stop the sound while changed. They replace the Reset Parameters and the DIP switches and allow new things like : - Reverse / Replace only / Record2Insert (all on INSERT) - Sound triggered RECORD - Redefinition of the loop start point - MIDI Notes or -Controllers or -ProgChange selectable. - MIDI Dump and -Load of the loops (slow!) - In the update, there are be better solutions for brother synced playing. cons: - I prefer the PARADIS footswitches (adaptable to use with the one cord, too). - You cannot tune it down with an external clock any more. - less beautyfull, for my taste... >I own two Paradis Loop Delays now and I'm quite happy with them. Should I >bother >trying to sell them (which won't be easy, and I won't get a lot of money for >them because nobody knows them) and buy an Echoplex instead? I'm not sure if >reverse and multiple loops are reason enough. The main reason might be that you want to brother with your friend and unfortunately, the BrotherSync of the LOOP delay and Plex are not compatible. Remember that the LOOP delay was the first dedicated unit for looping and there are only a hundred of them, so they might have a high colectors value in a few years. Hope this helps Matthias From ???@??? Thu Jan 02 10:40:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 2 04:50:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vfmaw-0007fh-00; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:50:02 -0800 Message-Id: <24590.199701021248@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:48:22 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: JamMan misleading Resent-Message-ID: <"MwiLtB.A.fIH.856yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1530 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:50:02 -0800 X-UIDL: f276efd0a4c01255b69d21bfdabd188d >**Please don't insult my or any other consumer's intelligence by claiming >that >a) this is not misleading, and b) having "stereo" outs on the jamman when >looped output is in mono is in any way useful.** I think we need some basic, ground-rules ettiquette here. Jon did not design the Jamman. Jon did not sell you your jamman. Jon worked for Lexicon, but doesn't any more. I really think you, and a few others on this thread, are way out of line attacking Jon for a product that is produced by the company Jon used to work for. Similarly, it would be out of order attacking Kim or Matthias for the Plex and PARADIS. We're mature, grown-up people here, and don't need to start behaving like Congress. ;) Please, people, be nice. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Thu Jan 02 10:40:22 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 2 08:07:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vfp3T-0003da-00; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:27:39 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:26:55 -0500 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark) Message-Id: <199701021526.KAA19760@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Echoplex price increase rumor X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pDHt_C.A.vND.iJ9yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1531 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:27:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 2955b359f24544855ad8b7de0035d0d9 So its Jan 2. Does anyone know if the Echoplex price increase rumor is true? Is it now $1000? Clark From ???@??? Thu Jan 02 10:40:25 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 2 09:27:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vfq9u-0005pA-00; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:38:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:32:37 -0500 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: JamMan Stereo - D'oh! To: Loopers-Delight Message-ID: <199701021132_MC1-DFB-6590@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"AmDT5D.A.IWF.-N-yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1532 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:38:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 0a5370e92d64ab0750ca4be6318a1985 >You're quite correct: it's not your fault that you were given incorrect information from these retailers. And I'm personally very sorry if you feel that you were mislead. < Ah, therein lies the rub. You're right of course; it's the retailers who, having represented themselves as products experts & etc, did the bulk of the misleading. Apparently my fury has been misdirected... Please accept my humble apologies for the rant... Should have waited a few days before writing that one. I also shouldn't have fallen into the trap of believing anything a retailer says... how stupid of me. I do still feel, however, that the fact that the looping capabilities of the JamMan are mono only should be CLEARLY and prominently displayed on the unit, in advertising, etc... Again, any musician who sees such a device, and sees that it has "stereo" outputs, is going to naturally assume, unless knocked over the head with a brick (d'oh!) that the output will be in stereo. If this was clearly displayed on the unit then we wouldn't have to rely on the misleading input of sales people. >Mono or stereo was never discussed...So at worse they're guilty by omission. Case in point. Again I was daft not to researched it well enough on my own, and accept my share in that guilt. Again sorry to have ranted. And all stereo/mono discussion aside, I am still having an extended love affair with my JamMan... Finally popped in the extra memory a few months ago, and am in looping heaven ... Everything from African percussion to bizarre conversation to guitars & random found noise, etc.... Aaaahhhh... jj From ???@??? Thu Jan 02 10:40:28 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 2 09:43:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vfrAy-0000Lh-00; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:43:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 11:24:23 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9700028522.AA852233205@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes [Redux] Resent-Message-ID: <"DjyYr.A.WKH.mE_yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1533 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:43:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 6391725975ff64d9511f2d4a38fb8750 Re: Deck: > I remember that first flush of joy at using Deck well, suddenly it seems > that you have incredible power. Deck is a great piece of software, not > without quirks and even a few bugs, but very powerful. I edited and > mastered our first CD on it 18 momths ago, and now we're working on the > 2nd. Very cool. I'm actually convinced that I can now do a real project with just the equipment in my home. Now all I need is a removable cartridge drive (SyJet perhaps?) so I can have multiple removable audio carts. Then maybe a CD burner for one-offs. This is so much easier than trying to afford an ADAT or DA-88. > Do you know about the deck-users list? It's very handy. Yep - I'm on it. I'm learning new things all the time there. >> Now, I will be entering the much desired notes on the net here soon - I just >> need to take the time and DO it. >> > Great, I expect my Vortex to arrive any day now... I did a 12-track project where 10 of the tracks were vortex processed. Some of the nicest stereo textures known anyuwhere. I love that box! Todd Madson. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Tue, 31 Dec 96 03:07:13 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA01814 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:18:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veuI4-000384-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:50:56 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:05:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes [Redux] Resent-Message-ID: <"qSiEw.A.tiC.50Hyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1523 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:50:56 -0800 From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:06 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 07:02:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgB8O-0003rW-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:02:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32CCD913.6A78@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:01:55 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hi! all, and head to head loop comparason? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BWg8ND.A.6dD.D6Rzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1534 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:02:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 925a7c66c4640c53124a758bd56e2db0 Hello all. I just joined the group last night. Now that I have some time today to write I have a few questions... I don't know if anyone cares, but my name is Trevor and this list was recomended to me by a guy I met named Geoff. I have done quite a bit of ambient stuff in the past, but the limit of my looping experience comes from using a Boss pitchshifter/delay pedal with the feedback cranked up. I found out that I could do loops on the pedal on accident- all of my other delay units go into crazed runnaway with a short delay and full regeneration. That an two volume pedals and I was off. I don't know whether or not it is assumed that I am a guitarist, but I am and also, of course, a big Fripp&Eno fan (more so when they are together than when they are apart) and I cut my teeth on Cocteau Twins/Xmal Deutchland(sp?) and the rest of the 4AD ouvre. In recent years (the past four or so) my sound has become much more raw, being influenced greatly by jazz (Coleman, Ribot, Cherry, Coltrane, Zorn), DC post-punk (Fugazi, Jawbox, Discord Records in general) and NY noise (Sonic Youth, et.al.). Anyway, I'm glad to have found the newsgroup because I want to buy a looper pedal proper. I am an improvisational kind of guy but I have wielded incredably complex combinations of pedals an rack gear before on stage. Complexity is not (really) a problem. What is important is that there are no deadspots or dropout when changing patches, and that all of the coll functions can be controlled by my feet. I'd love to able to reverse the loops as I know that some can do. It also should be able to take a beating. I looked around last night until my eyes spun, but I could not find direct comparisons of what seems to me to be the Big Three; the JamMan, Echoplex, and Boomerang units. A cursory inspection makes me think that this group seems to be slanted towards the Echoplex. Why? I am interested in comparisons between the units- faves, raves, and disgust. Don't forget to discuss sound quality too, should you choose to participate. Sorry for talking your ear off. Trevor From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:16 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 09:39:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgDaB-000352-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:03 -0800 Message-ID: <32CCFE25.264B@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 12:40:05 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hi! all, and head to head loop comparason? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q7bi_.A.vrC.POUzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1540 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:03 -0800 X-UIDL: cc694af8fdf36dcc9e5b51a211d91092 Ott, John wrote: >I picked the Jamman over the Echoplex on cost. The Echoplex does have >some nice features, but the JamMan has what I needed (longer delay and loops than >what was on my RP6). I was disappointed to find out It did not > record in stereo.(Link from Web seller indicated stereo in/out but didn't indicate > only mono record)But I have a Mackie 1202VLZ mixer so I can send all the stereo > effects from the RP 6to the mackie and put the Jamman on an Aux out/in loop in mono. > Not perfect but wil lwork for now. What are the big differences between the JamMan and Echoplex? What does the Echoplex have that you can't live without? Does anyone have the Boomerang? Trevor From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:09 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 07:40:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgBjV-0005DZ-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:40:33 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <24590.199701021248@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:40:21 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"Z5ocqD.A.uyE.5fSzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1535 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:40:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 4f68203d034a481ec4c54bbe7194954d Hello, I have heard from 2 different people I know that Lexicon is no longer manufacturing the JamMan. Has anyone else heard this too ? The 2 people heard it from retailers, one was told Lexicon was coming out with something new at NAMM, which I kind of doubt. John Durant have you heard anything about this from anyone at Lexicon or is this another case of retailer's ignorance and misinformation ? Ed Drake From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:37 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 12:39:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgGPD-0005zk-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:39:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32CD24C5.675F@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 15:24:53 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Just tried the Boomerang. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ii7CVB.A.smE.woWzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1545 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:39:55 -0800 X-UIDL: ced003becdb92c59f81aa64d81a94cac Well I just got a chance to try out the Boomerang loop pedal. It was very easy to use and had some cool feature on it, but the sound quality was a bit rough. The loops would be great for textureal stuff were definition is not that important, but playing leads on top of a simple rhythm figure just wasn't working for me. The salesman said that by adjusting the trim would help, but I don't know if that could be all that much of a help. If anyone disagrees, let me know. I thought the Boomerang would be the pedal for me. Sigh... Trevor From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:53 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 14:01:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgHg5-0002ak-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:01:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32CD28FE.34C1@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 15:42:54 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors References: <970103201424_74074.1316_GHQ47-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OKhyTB.A.oQC.wEYzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1550 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:01:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 60c69ba089bc8be789170ed2325775f3 Jon Durant wrote: > What I know is this: when the JamMen are gone from the warehouse, (when I left > there were still a good many tying up inventory dollars...) they'll be gone for > good. Unless something dramatic has happened to change things, but I doubt it. Does this mean it is a really good idea to get a JamMan now or a really bad idea to get one now? Trevor From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:53:03 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 18:38:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgM02-0002tb-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:38:18 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961219215309_841700938@emout03.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:43:00 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"PBJquD.A.tnC.lIczy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1552 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:38:18 -0800 X-UIDL: dc44b8a558481b5474e59c72fe26675b This is related to my previous post this morning Back on 12/19/96 Dpcoffin@aol.com said: >.... I called Bob Sellon, the guy who did Torn's PCM-42 tweaking >(he's at 617-280-0395...not the # in the GP article...and seems to work for >Lexicon) >Very interesting...I was asking if the Vortex could be expanded >delay-time-wise, and it seems not without the addition of another chip, for >which no provision was designed in. BUT, he claimed, 1: that he may be coming >out with some Jamman tweaks, and 2: that the just-out MPX from Lexicon Does >have space for extra memory/chips, thanks to his insisting on it at the >design stage, but no existing plans to actually use the space or expand its >sampling/looping capabilities...his advice? Call Lexicon and ask for extra >features. I just called and spoke with Bob for several minutes about some of this stuff and he said a couple of things: 1. Lexicon is no longer manufacturing the JamMan and after current stock is sold, there are no plans to make any more 2 . He is currently working on some JamMan mods. Lexicon is interested in licensing the software to Bob and another fellow to make some upgrades which include hearing multiple loops simultaneously, more odd time signature MIDI clock support,and some other tweaks which I can't recall now. The other proposed mod would be hardware including more memory for longer delay times and yes --STEREO INS AND OUTS. 3. He said he did plan to write some looping software for the new MPX when he has time ( it will probably be a while ). He said the MPX would be great for looping because it has chorusing, reverb, etc. which could be used in conjunction with the loops. 4. I told him about our list and he said for anyone interested in these JamMan tweaks to email him at so he can see how much interest and support is there for these mods and also to keep us posted on their progess Later Ed From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:11 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 07:50:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgBt5-0005fV-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:50:27 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:48:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970103104831.3d3f50e6@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: km15@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16), Cornell Modified Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kevin Miller Subject: mailing list Resent-Message-ID: <"u4Blb.A.ALF.4oSzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1536 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:50:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 81683696b84e71b9da5d48b3cbff5b95 Could I please be placed on the Loopers mailing list? Thanks very much Kevin From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:12 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 08:22:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgCNs-00075L-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:22:16 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: JamMan Rumors Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:18:55 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 23 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"rzUfEB.A.RfG.4GTzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1537 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:22:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 704013e5cfba2242f67504db5c1cbca4 >> >Hello, > I have heard from 2 different people I know that Lexicon is no longer >manufacturing the JamMan. Has anyone else heard this too ? The 2 people >heard it from retailers, one was told Lexicon was coming out with something >new at NAMM, which I kind of doubt. John Durant have you heard anything >about this from anyone at Lexicon or is this another case of retailer's >ignorance and misinformation ? > Ed Drake< I heard this too from a guitar salesman at Washington Music Center. He was out, as was Vennemans (Rockville Md). I had to go to the web to get mine. (Musicians Friend, BPM had them listed at a lower price but they too were out). Have not heard anything about a replacement. (Perhaps they'll expand the Vortex's delay capabilities? Just guessing) >john > > > > From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:13 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 08:33:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgCYG-0007cC-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:33:00 -0800 Message-Id: <9701031631.AA08985@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:21:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: JamMan Rumors To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"E11oWD.A.VAH.5PTzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1538 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:33:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 804752135353198db7b656d49e3856ee >From Ed Drake came: Hello, I have heard from 2 different people I know that Lexicon is no longer manufacturing the JamMan. Has anyone else heard this too ? The 2 people heard it from retailers, one was told Lexicon was coming out with something new at NAMM, which I kind of doubt. John Durant have you heard anything about this from anyone at Lexicon or is this another case of retailer's ignorance and misinformation ? Ed Drake Yes, it is true that we are no longer making the JAMMAN. There may be limited availability at some stores. We do not currently have any plans to release another dedicated looper. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 09:36:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgDXx-0002u2-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:36:45 -0800 Message-Id: <9701031641.AA09103@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:31:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: JamMan Rumors To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"6CW5i.A.sgC.6LUzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1539 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:36:45 -0800 X-UIDL: de1b0f28f861dace06c514da5996bf96 john asked: (Perhaps they'll expand the Vortex's delay capabilities? Just guessing) >john > > > > No John et al, We are no longer making the Vortex either. There is limited looping capability in the MPX1(1 loop of up to 2 seconds.) The looping in the MPX1 can be used with pitch shifting, chorusing, equalization, modulation and reverb simultaneously. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 03 10:07:17 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 09:44:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgDfd-0003Ty-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:44:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:13:11 -0500 From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970103121311_1756356004@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: RE: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"ITI3CB.A.uID.bUUzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1541 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:44:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 9efde249090b2008465672182d6b4b83 In a message dated 1/3/97 12:30:58 PM, you wrote: <> Well, guys, now's the time to hammer Lexicon with requests for them to utilise the expandability of the MPX...which HAS a 2-sec looper installed, AND it can be used simultaneously with 4 other (true stereo) FX--- (WARNING!! I don't know for SURE that the looper is stereo, but the delays in the unit apparently are)---PLUS their world-class reverb, all for under a grand! The PCM-80 also is expandable to over 42 sec STEREO delay with standard 30-pin SIMMS, but it's twice the $$$, unexpanded, and ain't a real multiFX... (DOUBLE WARNING: I am NOT a Lexicon employee OR a musical gear sales person. My info comes from reading sales lit. and talking to Lexicon tech support folks. SO IT IS TRUE ONLY TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, NOT ACTUAL EXPERIENCE! Let's find out, huh?) David From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:31 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 10:30:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgEOI-0006a4-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:30:50 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:26:26 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: mailing list Resent-Message-ID: <"0Q3LvC.A.3CG.v_Uzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1542 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:30:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 7bd58a6fc06a7816b6b062643a1c6ee4 > Could I please be placed on the Loopers mailing list? Thanks very >much Kevin ok, I added you. Welcome! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:36 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 12:11:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgFxD-0004T5-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:10:59 -0800 Message-Id: <9701031933.AA09972@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:24:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: RE: JamMan Rumors To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"Ah3ikB.A.JbD.OOWzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1544 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:10:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 8a1bb2d1ac9ade1d490248989b2d573f Regarding the Lexicon MPX1 David stated:" (WARNING!! I don't know for SURE that the looper is stereo, but the delays in the unit apparently are)" I am sorry to say that the looping is done in mono. Best rregards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:35 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 11:31:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgFKn-0002LW-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:31:17 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:39:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: RE: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"_3JE4.A.sDC.y3Vzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1543 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:31:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 99e135566ae1686c2314622bc437187d >In a message dated 1/3/97 12:30:58 PM, you wrote: > ><limited availability at some stores. We do not currently have any plans to >release another dedicated looper. > >Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I >can do for you. > >Best regards, > >Greg Hogan >Lexicon Customer Service >Phone 617-280-0372 >FAX 617-280-0499>> > Is this really the wisest move on the part of Lexicon? I've had 4 friends in my area, not exactly a hotbed of musical activity, pick up JamBoys or Echoplexi in the last 6 months. I also see a lot more interest on the net and in the press for looping devices, and not just on this list. And I see a lot more musicians using them onstage in the last year. Maybe loopers are devices that needed some time for the public to really get interested in them, and that's starting to happen now. Is there any possibility on Lexicon re-thinking this decision? >Well, guys, now's the time to hammer Lexicon with requests for them to >utilise the expandability of the MPX...which HAS a 2-sec looper installed, >AND it can be used simultaneously with 4 other (true stereo) FX--- (WARNING!! >I don't know for SURE that the looper is stereo, but the delays in the unit >apparently are)---PLUS their world-class reverb, all for under a grand! >The PCM-80 also is expandable to over 42 sec STEREO delay with standard >30-pin SIMMS, but it's twice the $$$, unexpanded, and ain't a real multiFX... >(DOUBLE WARNING: I am NOT a Lexicon employee OR a musical gear sales person. >My info comes from reading sales lit. and talking to Lexicon tech support >folks. SO IT IS TRUE ONLY TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, NOT ACTUAL EXPERIENCE! >Let's find out, huh?) >David How exactly is the MPX expanable? I use an LXP-5 for looping all the time, I love the idea of all the pitch/reverb processing after the loop. If the MPX could be expanded to do long loops, it could be a killer box. But frankly, I'm skeptical that Lexicon would leave us this possibility... later, Dave T. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:40 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 12:43:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgGSu-0006HR-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:43:44 -0800 Message-Id: <9701032019.AA10166@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:09:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: RE: JamMan Rumors To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"BkySID.A.xcF.42Wzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1547 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:43:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 67fa99698c3306f080546d999ec0309c In response to me saying this: ><limited availability at some stores. We do not currently have any plans to >release another dedicated looper. > >Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I >can do for you. > >Best regards, > >Greg Hogan >Lexicon Customer Service >Phone 617-280-0372 >FAX 617-280-0499>> > David T. asks:"Is this really the wisest move on the part of Lexicon? I've had 4 friends in my area, not exactly a hotbed of musical activity, pick up JamBoys or Echoplexi in the last 6 months. I also see a lot more interest on the net and in the press for looping devices, and not just on this list. And I see a lot more musicians using them onstage in the last year. Maybe loopers are devices that needed some time for the public to really get interested in them, and that's starting to happen now. Is there any possibility on Lexicon re-thinking this decision?" It seems to me that interest in JAMMAN has peaked only after we stopped shipping them and the big instrument suppliers offered them at heavily discount prices. JAMMAN would probably require a new design to be re released as some of the parts that were available at the time that the JAMMAN was designed are no longer available in quantities sufficient for manufacturing. I would say that it is not very likely that we will come out with another dedicated looping device in the near future. JAMMAN was very successful in the emotional response that we got from most people who purchased it, however the volume of product that was actually sold was not sufficient enough as to elicit a very warm feeling from the people who make the decisions about what we make and what we do not make. David T also stated "How exactly is the MPX expandable? I use an LXP-5 for looping all the time, I love the idea of all the pitch/reverb processing after the loop. If the MPX could be expanded to do long loops, it could be a killer box. But frankly, I'm skeptical that Lexicon would leave us this possibility..." The MPX1 is expandable via software. I am not aware of any plans to offer expanded delay memory. It certainly will be more entertaining as a looper than the LXP5. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:39 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 12:40:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgGPK-00060C-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:40:02 -0800 Date: 03 Jan 97 15:14:25 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: JamMan Rumors Message-ID: <970103201424_74074.1316_GHQ47-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"94dEaB.A.cLF.jyWzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1546 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:40:02 -0800 X-UIDL: c3610756e77379754bafcdc2a88e5e09 Hi Gang, Ed queried: > I have heard from 2 different people I know that Lexicon is no longer >manufacturing the JamMan. Has anyone else heard this too ? The 2 people >heard it from retailers, one was told Lexicon was coming out with >something new at NAMM, which I kind of doubt. John Durant have you heard >anything about this from anyone at Lexicon or is this another case of >retailer's ignorance and misinformation ? What I know is this: when the JamMen are gone from the warehouse, (when I left there were still a good many tying up inventory dollars...) they'll be gone for good. Unless something dramatic has happened to change things, but I doubt it. As for new products at NAMM, I'm aware of the MPX-1 but don't believe it has much in the way of looping capabilities. There are other products in the MPX-category in development, but I know that "Loop" is a four letter word round those parts. And, since I wasn't on the beta team for the MPX-1 as promised, I doubt I'll be getting any inside info any time soon. Later, Jon From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:50 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 13:38:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgHKI-0001Cj-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:38:54 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970103121311_1756356004@emout12.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:37:48 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"BzmhIB.A.t8.GvXzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1549 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:38:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 85f6dc82e745a3e44bce70a162545d08 This is related to my previous post this morning and I posted it once earlier today but I'm reposting it because there is something weird going on with my email and I'm not sure the list received it the first time. Sorry if you've already read it. Back on 12/19/96 Dpcoffin@aol.com said: >.... I called Bob Sellon, the guy who did Torn's PCM-42 tweaking >(he's at 617-280-0395...not the # in the GP article...and seems to work for >Lexicon) >Very interesting...I was asking if the Vortex could be expanded >delay-time-wise, and it seems not without the addition of another chip, for >which no provision was designed in. BUT, he claimed, 1: that he may be coming >out with some Jamman tweaks, and 2: that the just-out MPX from Lexicon Does >have space for extra memory/chips, thanks to his insisting on it at the >design stage, but no existing plans to actually use the space or expand its >sampling/looping capabilities...his advice? Call Lexicon and ask for extra >features. I just called and spoke with Bob for several minutes about some of this stuff and he said a couple of things: 1. Lexicon is no longer manufacturing the JamMan and after current stock is sold, there are no plans to make any more 2 . He is currently working on some JamMan mods. Lexicon is interested in licensing the software to Bob and another fellow to make some upgrades which include hearing multiple loops simultaneously, more odd time signature MIDI clock support,and some other tweaks which I can't recall now. The other proposed mod would be hardware including more memory for longer delay times and yes --STEREO INS AND OUTS. 3. He said he did plan to write some looping software for the new MPX when he has time ( it will probably be a while ). He said the MPX would be great for looping because it has chorusing, reverb, etc. which could be used in conjunction with the loops. 4. I told him about our list and he said for anyone interested in these JamMan tweaks to email him at so he can see how much interest and support is there for these mods and also to keep us posted on their progress Later Ed From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:42 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 13:21:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgH39-0000AF-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:21:11 -0800 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 14:47:50 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9700038523.AA852331635@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"I4n3JD.A.bwG.RQXzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1548 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:21:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 24c5af495a422eae73be3db501790fb2 Um, guys: Since the Vortex hit guitar center at blowout prices, maybe the Jam Man will also hit guitar center with similar prices in the future. And, for those who are bemoaning the lack of stereo: get a Vortex. The nicest, smoothest, ambient sounding stereo textures around. I don't know if it's true stereo or not, but it sounds great. Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: RE: JamMan Rumors From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 1/3/97 2:31 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- Hi Gang, Ed queried: > I have heard from 2 different people I know that Lexicon is no longer >manufacturing the JamMan. Has anyone else heard this too ? The 2 people >heard it from retailers, one was told Lexicon was coming out with >something new at NAMM, which I kind of doubt. John Durant have you heard >anything about this from anyone at Lexicon or is this another case of >retailer's ignorance and misinformation ? What I know is this: when the JamMen are gone from the warehouse, (when I left there were still a good many tying up inventory dollars...) they'll be gone for good. Unless something dramatic has happened to change things, but I doubt it. As for new products at NAMM, I'm aware of the MPX-1 but don't believe it has much in the way of looping capabilities. There are other products in the MPX-category in development, but I know that "Loop" is a four letter word round those parts. And, since I wasn't on the beta team for the MPX-1 as promised, I doubt I'll be getting any inside info any time soon. Later, Jon Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Fri, 03 Jan 97 14:31:26 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17285 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:42:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgGK6-0005j8-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:34:38 -0800 Date: 03 Jan 97 15:14:25 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: JamMan Rumors Message-ID: <970103201424_74074.1316_GHQ47-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"94dEaB.A.cLF.jyWzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1546 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:34:38 -0800 From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:52:54 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 3 14:11:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgHq7-0003CJ-00; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:11:47 -0800 Message-Id: <9701032151.AA11143@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:40:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Re[2]: JamMan Rumors To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"lzyjCC.A.l4C.6OYzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1551 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:11:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 8510147df5a715e783683ec83db969ab Todd Madson said: "Um, guys: Since the Vortex hit guitar center at blowout prices, maybe the Jam Man will also hit guitar center with similar prices in the future." We do not have anymore JAMMEN in stock. "And, for those who are bemoaning the lack of stereo: get a Vortex. The nicest, smoothest, ambient sounding stereo textures around. I don't know if it's true stereo or not, but it sounds great." In most programs Vortex is in true stereo. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 02:53:19 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 00:47:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgRlW-0000vJ-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:47:42 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 06:51:34 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Hi! all, and head to head loop comparason? Resent-Message-ID: <"67J3AB.A.bz.cjhzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1553 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:47:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 9420ed571ed08cac88c08a41917f1de9 Trevor asked: >What are the big differences between the JamMan and Echoplex? What does >the Echoplex >have that you can't live without? I created a Plex-JM comparison file, two years ago. I guess its available at Oberheim. We could also put it on the site, maybe. But since JamMan is not available any more...? So far I will send it attached to you, Trevor and to Kim and Michael for avaliation. It gives some technical comparison, but I feel that does not really say it. Since I am not neutral and never tried the JamMan, I am not going to say more about it. On the site, there is a lot of information, somewhat spread, maybe. Take your time to avaliate. Its like buying a new instrument you are not able to play yet. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:04 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 05:12:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgVu8-0006u5-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 05:12:52 -0800 Message-Id: <11285.199701041311@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:11:51 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Heads down - Lex employee in the house! Cc: GHogan@lexicon.com Resent-Message-ID: <"3ATXpC.A.-aG.Iclzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1554 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 05:12:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 355ec466f2dea51473783638dd8edf92 Greg Hogan: >Yes, it is true that we are no longer making the JAMMAN. There may be >limited availability at some stores. We do not currently have any plans to >release another dedicated looper. SHAME ON YOU!! :) >Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I >can do for you. Build another looper....? Greg, a word of warning. Jon Durant has been getting a lot of flak for Lex products, and he doesn't even work for 'em anymore. I wish you luck... ;) Good to have you on board! Michael (a jamman kinda guy) Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:10 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 10:14:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgacE-00061E-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:14:42 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:12:29 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <970104131229_1756519424@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Go get NAMMed! Resent-Message-ID: <"dA0UmD.A.hlF.K3pzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1555 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:14:42 -0800 X-UIDL: d3fb0df625b6b1dc85f122fd963149c3 Greetings fellow loopfolk, Given the fact that we now know that the JamMan is being phased out at Lexicon, and that the Oberheim Plex's future might possibly be seen by some to be somewhat cloudy as well, what does this say to us about the extent of support for looping devices (as a concept) in the music industry/marketplace? To say the least, things do not look particularly bright. I, and a couple of others of you in the SoCal area that I have talked to privtely, happen to be going to the Winter NAMM show in Anaheim in a couple of weeks. I would sincerely encourage any of the rest of you who might possibly have access to a ticket (through a friend at a music store or some other source) not to pass up any chance to attend. It's a unique opportunity to see what's really out there product-wise (none of the magazines can ever really cover it completely). And, especially now, it's a terrific opportunity to tell some of these companies what you think of their product, past, present, and future. All of "big cheeses" and their "marketing people" will be there. This is a show that is almost as much about finding out about what people wanna buy as it is about trying to sell what's already been manufactured (at least the smarter companies are that way). If you have a chance to go, and looping is important to you, don't pass it up. It may be your only chance to grab a sales rep, a marketing person, or product engineer at your favorite manufacturer by the ears and let him (or her) really have it straight from the street-level customer in no uncertain terms. Do us all a favor. If you can, get to the NAMM show. Ted Killian From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:33 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 11:15:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgbYe-0000A4-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:15:04 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:19:52 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Go get NAMMed! Resent-Message-ID: <"RTpng.A.AG.4vqzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1556 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:15:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 35034452b8a3f63da5bef5b2a0ea1e5f Ted brought up a good wave: >Oberheim Plex's future might possibly be seen by some >to be somewhat cloudy as well, what does this say to us about the extent of >support for looping devices (as a concept) in the music industry/marketplace? >To say the least, things do not look particularly bright. True anyway. I do not want to promise anything yet, but it looks to me like the Oberheim clouds are getting dissolved! >I, and a couple of others of you in the SoCal area that I have talked to >privtely, happen to be going to the Winter NAMM show in Anaheim in a couple >of weeks. I would sincerely encourage any of the rest of you who might >possibly have access to a ticket (through a friend at a music store or some >other source) not to pass up any chance to attend. Nice idea. Bring some tape prooves of loop works. We should try to finish the sampler CD till then. (shit, still did not manage to burn and send my part!) >All of "big cheeses" and their "marketing people" will be there. This is a >show that is almost as much about finding out about what people wanna buy as >it is about trying to sell what's already been manufactured (at least the >smarter companies are that way). Very true. If only 100 people come up and say they want to loop, this can change a company plan! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:40 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 14:56:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgf0y-00000l-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:56:32 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 15:50:14 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re: JamMan Rumors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"53FiDB.A.dNH.69tzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1557 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:56:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d98fbaecce241de012f7fecf854ce66 Thanks to all for the heads up about the Jamman being discontinued, and about Bob doing the mods. I found a floor demo unit at a Guitar Center for $239 (full warranty), so I ordered it. I thought this was a great price. Please advise a good place to buy the funky zip RAM used in the Jamman so I can max out the memory. What should I expect to pay for the RAM? bret From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:42 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 15:59:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgg02-0002Fn-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 15:59:38 -0800 Date: 04 Jan 97 18:56:05 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: a new classical minimalist recording Message-ID: <970104235604_100041.247_JHB125-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ohvpCD.A.wCC.r6uzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1558 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 15:59:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 088e5f037079d9d005ba6e53acfcb576 I'm just listening to a wonderful new recording that is a must for minimalist enthusiasts: A new recording (1993) of the classical 1974 Philip Glass work "Music in Twelve Parts", released on a 3-CD-set by Nonesuch. Long pieces which convey the exciting spirit of early minimalism much better than all the commercial stuff Glass did later when he got famous. Recommended! Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:43 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 16:39:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vggcN-0003la-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:39:15 -0800 Date: 04 Jan 97 19:35:53 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: how's the Looper's CD? Message-ID: <970105003552_100041.247_JHB136-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"AQEZ3D.A.JdD.nfvzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1559 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:39:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 486e9bb71d3215b2675e609881831d22 > Bring some tape prooves of loop works. We should try to finish > the sampler CD till then. (shit, still did not manage to burn and send my part!) how many looping pieces have been submitted yet? Enough to get going, or are most people still working on their stuff? Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:46 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 16:47:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vggkN-0004AH-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:47:31 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:45:22 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970104194521_70630525@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"NJ5M-C.A.k1D.hnvzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1560 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:47:31 -0800 X-UIDL: fd188b4cb9e0f055b69fadb6e8f8af36 In a message dated 1/4/97 5:55:19 PM, Bret wrote: <> The best place to check is a local electronics store and NOT a music store(the music store will way over charge you). The manual lists, by manufacture and serial#, the chips needed. I upgraded mine a little over 2 years ago and the price at that time was $90.00. The installation is simple and the instructions are clearly shown in the manual. Good luck.---Paul From ???@??? Sat Jan 04 23:22:48 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 17:55:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vghnp-0006cd-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:55:09 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 20:53:34 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199701050153.UAA10735@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"cUkc1.A.jJG.9mwzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1561 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:55:09 -0800 X-UIDL: f878f9582c8173889c4350da837cb142 Take this advice - I bought mine from Lexicon for more than twice that. :( Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com > The best place to check is a local electronics store and NOT a music > store(the music store will way over charge you). The manual lists, by > manufacture and serial#, the chips needed. I upgraded mine a little over 2 > years ago and the price at that time was $90.00. The installation is simple > and the instructions are clearly shown in the manual. Good luck.---Paul From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 00:40:41 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 4 23:31:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgn3E-0001x9-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:31:24 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:22:59 -0800 To: nyfac2@nyfac.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Just tried the Boomerang. Resent-Message-ID: <"vuFfR.A.2pB.ud1zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1562 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:31:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 1d6ba32ad6cd1bf6b59359d2a13674a8 At 7:24 AM 1/3/97, Trevor Bajus wrote: >Well I just got a chance to try out the Boomerang loop pedal. > >It was very easy to use and had some cool feature on it, but the sound >quality was a bit >rough. The loops would be great for textureal stuff were definition is not >that important, >but playing leads on top of a simple rhythm figure just wasn't working for >me. The >salesman said that by adjusting the trim would help, but I don't know if >that could be all >that much of a help. > The sound quality is due to the low sampling rate of the Boomerang. The audio input is sampled at 16khz, meaning an effective bandwidth of 6-7khz or less. That's ok for guitar for some people. If you are picky about guitar sounds, you would probably notice this, especially with single coils. Attacks and definition are where it would suffer. In half speed mode the sample rate is 8khz, meaning a bandwidth probably under 3khz, which would be useful for sound effects, but would probably be pretty lousy for anything else. They have a lot of loop time in that thing, without any features that take advantage of it well. I don't know why they didn't cut the the loop time in half and double the sample rate. For $350, I would expect better sound quality, and decent audio a/d converters are really quite cheap. It would be a fun box at under $150, I think. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 12:47:44 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 5 00:49:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgoGX-00043o-00; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:49:13 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:40:30 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Heads down - Lex employee in the house! Cc: GHogan@lexicon.com Resent-Message-ID: <"07LE3B.A.5mD.Zm2zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1563 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:49:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 655121be803b3e4e7fd19e412595fbee At 5:11 AM 1/4/97, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: >Greg Hogan: > > >Greg, a word of warning. Jon Durant has been getting a lot of flak for Lex >products, and he doesn't even work for 'em anymore. I wish you luck... ;) > >Good to have you on board! I'd like to welcome Greg to the list as well. It's great to see one of the frequently-mentioned-companies actually speaking for themselves rather than leaving the job to their ex-employees. I really had to chuckle a few mornings ago when I checked my mail and saw Jon doing back flips to explain one thing and defend another. For once it wasn't me! Thanks for joining us and for your candor Greg, and for clearing up a bunch of questions for folks. And in other frequently-mentioned-company news, Mike Lyon of Oberheim says that the rumored Echoplex price increase is in fact just a rumor. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 12:47:47 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 5 00:51:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgoIz-00048h-00; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:51:45 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:40:34 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: RE: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"JJtOtB.A.onD.dm2zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1564 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:51:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 998e9b3f8a60690fdae0ba65254d2237 >>In a message dated 1/3/97 12:30:58 PM, you wrote: >> >><>limited availability at some stores. We do not currently have any plans to >>release another dedicated looper. >> >>Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I >>can do for you. >> >>Best regards, >> >>Greg Hogan >>Lexicon Customer Service >>Phone 617-280-0372 >>FAX 617-280-0499>> >> >Is this really the wisest move on the part of Lexicon? I've had 4 friends >in my area, not exactly a hotbed of musical activity, pick up JamBoys or >Echoplexi in the last 6 months. I also see a lot more interest on the net >and in the press for looping devices, and not just on this list. And I see >a lot more musicians using them onstage in the last year. Maybe loopers are >devices that needed some time for the public to really get interested in >them, and that's starting to happen now. Is there any possibility on >Lexicon re-thinking this decision? > Modern corporate capitalism at work. If a product's sales are not increasing and showing healthy profits this quarter, the stockholders get a bit irritated, and the execs ax the product to make way for something capable of generating a profit by next thursday. Works great for the computer industry, totally wrong for musical instruments. Gibson gave me a great perspective on this. While I was working there, Gibson celebrated its 100 year anniversary. That company was creating legendary products long before companies like Lexicon even existed, or for that matter, before their founders were even born. At Gibson, it was always understood that some things just take time to develop. And at that company, there were plenty of examples that waiting can pay off big. Less than 2000 Les Pauls were sold in the first year of production. Now, decades later, they sell far more than that each month. What if companies like Gibson and Fender had bailed on electric guitars after the first few years when market acceptance was slow? Musical instruments are a different thing than modems and toothpaste, marketing-wise. They're slow to catch on, but once they do they hang around for a long time. You know its gonna happen when you see that "emotional response" from the first adventurous souls who try it out. Those are the ones who go off and make passionate music that gets the rest of the world interested. It can take a while, and the bean counters usually fail to get the process. Don't worry, though. There are plenty in the business who understand this. If Lexicon is giving up, its only a matter of time before someone else sees the opportunity and jumps on it. We just have to show them why they should! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 12:47:48 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 5 01:03:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgoU3-0004Tc-00; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 01:03:11 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:53:06 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: JamMan Stereo - D'oh! Resent-Message-ID: <"k9urF.A.Q-D.My2zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1565 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 01:03:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 5c1eaea5d33ecb1771f4b567af9cdf62 Jason Joseph said: >>You're quite correct: it's not your fault that you were given incorrect >information from these retailers. And I'm personally very sorry if you feel >that >you were mislead. < > >Ah, therein lies the rub. You're right of course; it's the retailers who, >having >represented themselves as products experts & etc, did the bulk of the >misleading. Apparently my fury has been misdirected... Please accept my >humble apologies for the rant... Should have waited a few days before >writing that one. Jason is replying to a letter from Greg Hogan of Lexicon, which was sent to a few of us. Greg's statement on the matter ought to be public, since he sent it before he actually joined the list. Here it is: >Dear sirs, > >Jonathan Brainen forwarded your recent postings in loopers-delight regarding >the JAMMAN to me. It was not the intention of Lexicon to be deceiving in >offering stereo in and out of the JAMMAN while the processing is mono. I do >not no why no one thinks that it is useful for your dry signal to remain in >stereo allowing you to play over your (mono)loop in stereo. > >I would also like to know where the deception lies in the owners manual. I >am responsible for customer service here at Lexicon and I would be happy to >address any of your questions and concerns. > >Best regards, > >Greg Hogan >Lexicon Customer Service >Phone 617-280-0372 >FAX 617-280-0499 Jason continues: >I also shouldn't have fallen into the trap of believing anything a retailer >says... how stupid of me. I do still feel, however, that the fact that the >looping capabilities of the JamMan are mono only should be CLEARLY >and prominently displayed on the unit, in advertising, etc... Again, any >musician who sees such a device, and sees that it has "stereo" outputs, >is going to naturally assume, unless knocked over the head with a brick >(d'oh!) that the output will be in stereo. If this was clearly displayed on >the >unit then we wouldn't have to rely on the misleading input of sales people. > This is basically my point as well. Many people were apparently confused by this aspect of the Jamman. Its sort of a moot point now, obviously, but in the future, all I ask is that Lexicon try to make their products such that people can easily determine what they are getting and whether or not it meets their needs. Whether that means better labeling, or better sales training, or what, is up to the folks at Lexicon. We'll just sit here and self-righteously judge the results! :-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 12:47:58 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 5 03:41:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vgqxS-0000Yy-00; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 03:41:42 -0800 Message-Id: <29008.199701051141@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:41:06 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"PeuYGD.A.se.6M5zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1566 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 03:41:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 6fbfafac33fceafaa59035329a9746aa Kim said: >Gibson gave me a great perspective on this. While I was working there, >Gibson celebrated its 100 year anniversary. That company was creating >legendary products long before companies like Lexicon even existed, or for >that matter, before their founders were even born. At Gibson, it was always >understood that some things just take time to develop. And at that company, >there were plenty of examples that waiting can pay off big. Less than 2000 >Les Pauls were sold in the first year of production. Now, decades later, >they sell far more than that each month. What if companies like Gibson and >Fender had bailed on electric guitars after the first few years when market >acceptance was slow? I thought they dropped the Les Paul after 8 years because of low sales, hence the SG model? Certainly, there were only 2000ish Sunbursts (now known as Standards) made between 1958-1960, hence the fact that they now cost more than a typical house. >Don't worry, though. There are plenty in the business who understand this. >If Lexicon is giving up, its only a matter of time before someone else sees >the opportunity and jumps on it. We just have to show them why they should! Go Alesis! :) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 20:09:59 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 5 20:03:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vh6I2-0007iQ-00; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:03:58 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:58:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"1cj_mB.A.BGH.DkH0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1567 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:03:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 4d38353c3e605d9aa0f3d66fba6b2442 At 3:41 AM 1/5/97, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: >Kim said: > >>Gibson gave me a great perspective on this. While I was working there, >>Gibson celebrated its 100 year anniversary. That company was creating >>legendary products long before companies like Lexicon even existed, or for >>that matter, before their founders were even born. At Gibson, it was always >>understood that some things just take time to develop. And at that company, >>there were plenty of examples that waiting can pay off big. Less than 2000 >>Les Pauls were sold in the first year of production. Now, decades later, >>they sell far more than that each month. What if companies like Gibson and >>Fender had bailed on electric guitars after the first few years when market >>acceptance was slow? > >I thought they dropped the Les Paul after 8 years because of low sales, >hence the SG model? They dropped the Les Paul and put out new guitars that were supposed to be improvements. They were still essentially the same thing, just redesigned to hopefully appeal better to the more "modern" tastes. (The SG had the nice addition of another cutaway and a body design that weighed less than a typical house.) It would be like if Lex were killing the Jamman to make way for the JamSon (with stereo loops!) or something. >Certainly, there were only 2000ish Sunbursts (now >known as Standards) made between 1958-1960, hence the fact that they now >cost more than a typical house. It didn't take Gibson too long to notice this. That's why they can now charge whatever they like for the reissue versions and still be backordered for a year. Not a bad business.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 23:02:23 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 5 21:35:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vh7iS-0003eg-00; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:35:20 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 03:40:13 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"ujlDBD.A.3VD.Q7I0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1568 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:35:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 9128293f189920934f0786bb0b4c4e2f >>Don't worry, though. There are plenty in the business who understand this. >>If Lexicon is giving up, its only a matter of time before someone else sees >>the opportunity and jumps on it. We just have to show them why they should! Michael sais: >Go Alesis! :) aem, your not serious?... and seriously: which enterprise you guys think should and could produce (and sell!) such a thing? Matthias From ???@??? Sun Jan 05 23:35:31 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 5 23:35:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vh9aH-0000Bo-00; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:35:01 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:31:26 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: New stuff on the web site Resent-Message-ID: <"o91adD.A.9F.qrK0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1569 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:35:01 -0800 X-UIDL: a3d452db4ccd2b2ccdb9fda20860d82a Just uploaded a buncha new junk to the web site. We've got: My eagerly anticipated novella on the fascinating subject of Footpedals for the Echoplex. It includes everything I could think of on the subject, and then some. This will also be my topic for "What I did on my Christmas Holiday." Take it all in at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html Also, in response to Trevor Bajus' request for a comparison between the Echoplex and Jamman, Matthias dug up such a thing that he wrote a couple of years ago. Michael promptly html-ized it, I added a bit or two, and there ya go. This is version 1.0, and certain to get updated as it contains some large info voids. Whatever you see lacking, send it on in. It may be a tad biased too, considering the authors. Hopefully future additions will correct that. See the controversy brewing at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/Plex_Jamman.html Also, I created the beginnings of a JamMan page. Hopefully some articulate JamMan users will fill it with useful tidbits. Right now it just has links to the aforementioned comparison sheet and the Harmony Central page, which is pretty informative. Gaze in awe as your future in web page creation beckons you at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/jamman/jamman.html A new version of the profiles page was also uploaded, so you can learn all the latest about your fellow Looper's Delighters at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/profiles/Profiles.html Plus, I updated a link or two here and there. Oh, as far as the question of whether looping is growing in popularity or not, and what the future holds, Looper's Delight has received 474 hits in the 5 days since January 1. Not as many as my friend's porno site, but the sexiness of our obscure little corner of the net is clearly growing. Enjoy! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 06 09:57:46 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 6 03:18:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhD44-0005oe-00; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 03:18:00 -0800 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:22:41 -0800 From: johnpollock@delphi.com (John Pollock) Subject: Re: New stuff on the web site X-Sender: johnpollock@pop.delphi.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01IDVSEZH7C28WZQH5@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"bcWHRC.A.IaF.08N0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1570 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 03:18:00 -0800 X-UIDL: fdb0fc53a8cf8f16ed71ed476720073c Kim indited, >Oh, as far as the question of whether looping is growing in popularity or >not, and what the future holds, Looper's Delight has received 474 hits in >the 5 days since January 1. Not as many as my friend's porno site, but the >sexiness of our obscure little corner of the net is clearly growing. And I'll bet the satisfaction index is higher at Looper's Delight. ;-) Several of those hits are mine, and I surely do appreciate the efforts of all involved. John mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web-- http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Mon Jan 06 09:58:02 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 6 08:29:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhHvL-0006uW-00; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:29:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 10:17:18 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9700068525.AA852574782@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: how's the Looper's CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"EK0CKC.A.qSG.jdS0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1571 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:29:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 433f2a133249f69dc4db55e715f8529f Ack! I'm shameless. I'm actually still working on my piece. Now that I actually have access to hard disk recording equipment I'm stereoizing all the tracks on what was formerly a mono piece. Then I guess I'll record it to a dolby-c audio cassette since it's the best thing I have. I could potentially send it as a file over the internet (admittedly a HUGE file over the internet) so it could be burned as a file to CD, but I have no idea how that would work. Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: how's the Looper's CD? From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 1/4/97 6:35 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- > Bring some tape prooves of loop works. We should try to finish > the sampler CD till then. (shit, still did not manage to burn and send my part!) how many looping pieces have been submitted yet? Enough to get going, or are most people still working on their stuff? Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Sat, 04 Jan 97 18:35:33 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA22201 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:46:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vggbu-0003jn-00; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:38:46 -0800 Date: 04 Jan 97 19:35:53 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: how's the Looper's CD? Message-ID: <970105003552_100041.247_JHB136-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"AQEZ3D.A.JdD.nfvzy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1559 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:38:46 -0800 From ???@??? Mon Jan 06 23:50:36 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 6 11:24:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhKfF-0001m1-00; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:24:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 14:24:21 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni2 To: Loopers Delight Subject: Looper's Cd?? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"q5Ve2.A.8dB.sCV0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1572 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:24:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 72cfbf7f8db95d8484bd6eff7877a6d8 I've seen a couple posts on the Looper's CD lately but don't have much info on it. Two questions: 1. Can someone point me toa FAQ or place to find out all the details on this. 2. Is there still room for submissions? Anyone have an email address to speak to someone about this? Forgive the newbieness (heh, I've been on other lists for years but just heard about this one) thanks From ???@??? Tue Jan 07 10:07:22 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 02:58:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhZEk-0002FA-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:58:30 -0800 Message-Id: <28074.199701071053@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:53:34 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"8DVaMB.A.i_B.1si0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1573 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:58:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 3c106c364a92418a7ca9c6a2fa5a9e4a >>>Don't worry, though. There are plenty in the business who understand this. >>>If Lexicon is giving up, its only a matter of time before someone else sees >>>the opportunity and jumps on it. We just have to show them why they should! > >Michael sais: >>Go Alesis! :) > >aem, your not serious?... and seriously: which enterprise you guys think >should and could produce (and sell!) such a thing? > >Matthias Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Tue Jan 07 10:07:23 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 03:00:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhZGM-0002Ko-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 03:00:10 -0800 Message-Id: <28146.199701071059@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:59:05 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) Resent-Message-ID: <"w7YqZC.A.mHC.uxi0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1574 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 03:00:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e4d117eb1653ed37accdce133aaa656 >>>Don't worry, though. There are plenty in the business who understand this. >>>If Lexicon is giving up, its only a matter of time before someone else sees >>>the opportunity and jumps on it. We just have to show them why they should! > >Michael sais: >>Go Alesis! :) > >aem, your not serious?... No, just thought I'd stir up some trouble! :) > and seriously: which enterprise you guys think >should and could produce (and sell!) such a thing? I think we have enough talent here to build the ultimate looper. I mean we have the Plex design team, the JamMan marketer, contacts with all the major players (I mean all you "I demonstrated to Robert Fripp" types) and an exact idea of what the box should do (since we all use them). All we need is to know whether there exists a market for such a box (or whether it's viable to build one for the few we know that want 'em - like everyone here..) and how much of a commitment we need from the contributors. I'm sure there are a few here who'd get involved. Any takers? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Tue Jan 07 10:07:49 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 08:19:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vheFc-0004lk-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:19:44 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:16:38 +0000 Message-ID: <2D277F40.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Derek Bailey interview online To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"N4nps.A.eWE.dcn0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1575 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:19:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 28618152ded079d269d4bb659bbe7fec Dear All I dont know if this is of interest, but as his name was mentioned a while back...an interview with Derek Bailey is available online via the URL: http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/fulltext/mbailin2.html It may only appeal to those who've read his book, and it may cover much the same territory (not having access to a copy, I cant say). Conversely, it might be a compressed entry to his performance philosophy for those as yet unsure. (I recently heard a track from his `Guitar Drum and Bass' album which suggested the rest could be worth seeking out, by the way) David http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 07 10:07:52 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 10:08:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhfxF-0003JD-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:08:53 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:29:02 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Derek Bailey interview online Resent-Message-ID: <"_rFWD.A.R1C.3Ap0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1576 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:08:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 00de37a611f165aa11a774b3061be8af > Dear All > > I dont know if this is of interest, but as his name was mentioned > a while back...an interview with Derek Bailey is available online > via the URL: > > http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/fulltext/mbailin2.html > > It may only appeal to those who've read his book, and it may > cover much the same territory (not having access to a copy, I > cant say). Conversely, it might be a compressed entry to his > performance philosophy for those as yet unsure. > > (I recently heard a track from his `Guitar Drum and Bass' album > which suggested the rest could be worth seeking out, by the way) > > David > http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/ Bailey is one of my favorite musicians in the world, but he seems to be the absolute antitheseis of the looping musician. He has such an aversion to cliche that his improvisational methodology is to abandon any idea as soon as it begins to imply any conventional genre/harmony/melody/whatever. He's a phenomenal guitarist, and a rigorous, if slightly curmudgeonly, free improvisor. I haven't heard the 'Guitar, Drum 'n' Bass' record, reviews suggest it's not his best work, nor particularly innovative drum 'n' bass, and I don't think it's particularly representative of his usual works. He is worth seeking out, I've known a few guitarists who compeletly changed their styles after listening to Bailey. The records of his I'd recommend include: Arcana, "The Last Wave", on DIW, a scorched-earth electric improv session with Bill Laswell and Tony Williams, one of the very rare times Bailey has recorded with a conventional (at least in instrumentation if not approach) rhythm section. This is one of my currently one of my favorite records. Derek and the Ruins, "Saisoro", on Tzadik, a trio with the utterly insane and virtuosic japanese duo Ruins. Derek Bailey and Henry Kaiser, "Wireforks", on Shanachie, a beautifully recorded set of mostly acoustic duos. Derek Bailey and Anthony Braxton, "First Duo Concert (London, 1974)", on Emanem, a set of absolutely incredible improvisations. Derk Bailey, John Zorn, William Parker, "Harras", on Avant, a recent recording of more traditional acoustic free jazz, very high energy. Bailey has many more records out, but most of them are on his very limited distribution label Incus, and are hard to find in the US. The above are relatively widely available. Also, his book is a terrific resource on improvisation in many musical contexts. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 01:38:33 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 11:54:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhhbs-0002A6-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:54:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199701072050.UAA03622@loki.genan.it> Reply-To: From: "Stefano Voulaz" To: "Loopers!" Subject: Introduction... Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:50:35 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P7DUyC.A.NyB.ikq0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1577 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:54:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b0f253a282ea58acd60b99f4e0f7364 Hi everybody! I've been looking for something like this for *years* and now I am really excited to join the loopers community. I hope to be able to contribute in the future, even if my experience is fairly limited. But let me just introduce myself. My name is Stefano Voulaz (but I've always been The Uncle), I'm 27 and I live in Italy. The town is less interesting, since I'm often moving: at the moment I stay near Ancona (close to the sea) and I work for KORG Italy as a software designer. My technical backgrounds are in analog and digital electronics design, as well as vacuum tubes (yeah!). Now I work as a programmer - I like soft thingies. Musically speaking, I try to be a guitarist, even if my academic instrument is the accordeon. I studied also saxophone and some other stuff, but I'm trying to enhance my skills on my white Strat. I started out listening to Alan Parsons, then Pink Floyd and followed up with Sylvian and Fripp (my reference points), among others. Thus, the Echoplex I bought recently (actually spending an unbelievable $1000 for an used unit!) has been like the holy grail for Sir Lancelot. Up until now, I've been playing with a Roland SDE-3000 in 2x mode (well, 6" of very-low-quality delay). Dazzling. But now... Tapping and looping are the most exciting things I felt since I started making music! OK, I'll cut it. Just earning bandwidth for more interesting stuff. Thanks again to everyone working on this list. Se you soon! The Uncle 8^)# From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 01:38:37 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 14:03:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhjc9-0002EZ-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:03:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 14:43:44 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:New stuff on the web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cC-2i.A.-mB.Eas0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1578 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:03:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 511d6000a49ca7eb8e0a962011e92bf5 Kim, enjoyed the new stuff on the site re: footpedals for the plex. It has been a couple of months since I installed a grommet around the jack on my plex footpedal. This was per your suggestion to resolve the problem I noted with static discharge at the footpedal causing the plex to loose the loops recorded. I am happy to report that I have not had this problem repeat with the grommet in place. Radio Shack has an assortment package of plastic grommets of various sizes. The largest one in the package fits inside the hole and around the jack of the footpedal perfectly. Unfortunately, I continue to have a problem with the start point of my loops moving as I switch between several loops. Am I the only person seeing this? After a few times of hitting next loop, the start point for previously recorded loops moves, and I have to manually set them back. bret From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 01:38:39 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 14:09:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhjiW-0002k2-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:09:56 -0800 Date: 07 Jan 97 16:58:39 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Introduction... Message-ID: <970107215839_100041.247_JHB235-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"WV8kCD.A.35B.mes0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1579 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:09:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 50b1e45676ff7a5e6b5cb0ea922e498a > My name is Stefano Voulaz (but I've always been The Uncle), I'm 27 and I live in Italy. hi Stefano, welcome on board! Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 01:38:45 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 7 18:48:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vho3w-0004bY-00; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:48:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:47:04 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: stickwire-l@netcom.com cc: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: another survey question In-Reply-To: <970107175408_578126941@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TLPxWD.A.3ME.Wqw0y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1580 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:48:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 915640215463e3f0c40acdb6b58098c1 hi folks, i've a brief but interesting question for my project... what are the various lists which you subscribe to? if you'll send me the name of it, the listserv/majordomo etc. address, and a description of the stuff contained... i'll compile them in my project. please send replies to me. thanks. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 09:58:43 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 05:28:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhy2z-0004R9-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 05:28:01 -0800 Date: 08 Jan 97 08:23:50 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) Message-ID: <970108132349_74074.1316_GHQ40-5@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Fq4-ND.A.gEE.eB60y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1581 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 05:28:01 -0800 X-UIDL: dde905162912c9850a8412b3128bd8f3 Michael writes: >I think we have enough talent here to build the ultimate looper. I mean >we have the Plex design team, the JamMan marketer, contacts with all the >major players (I mean all you "I demonstrated to Robert Fripp" types) and >an exact idea of what the box should do (since we all use them). All we >need is to know whether there exists a market for such a box (or whether >it's viable to build one for the few we know that want 'em - like everyone >here..) and how much of a commitment we need from the contributors. I'm >sure there are a few here who'd get involved. Any takers? It's funny; I've been kicking the idea around in my head for a while. Given my present state of trying to build a record label, it's impossible for me to consider getting actively involved in (another) start-up venture. On the other hand, I'd really want to be involved. The big issue is: is there a market out there? So far the returns on Jam/Plex etc have indicated not. If someone asked me if I'd be involved in a company that made *only* looping devices, I'd say no. Too risky. But a new effect/processing company with a little bit of creative vision *is* a real option. Consider how many people hate Digitech/Alesis/etc but still buy the stuff anyway. Well, what if someone new came in and answered the issues, made the right products at the right prices. Thought about the user for a change. Hmmm.... From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 09:58:44 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 06:15:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vhymV-0005nZ-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 06:15:03 -0800 Message-Id: <27290.199701081413@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:13:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) Resent-Message-ID: <"jlM1wB.A.LXF.Hu60y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1582 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 06:15:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 8853db07e6c2e4c944b9a06d308cc2d5 Jon writes, on building a commercial looper: >The big issue is: is there a market out there? So far the returns on Jam/Plex >etc have indicated not. If someone asked me if I'd be involved in a company >that >made *only* looping devices, I'd say no. Too risky. But a new effect/processing >company with a little bit of creative vision *is* a real option. Consider how >many people hate Digitech/Alesis/etc but still buy the stuff anyway. Well, what >if someone new came in and answered the issues, made the right products at the >right prices. Thought about the user for a change. Hmmm.... I've been thinking about this too. I've had an idea in my head for a while on a vortex-type FX unit, ie something which can be used creatively. These's definitely a market for that - eg the Lovetone company over here (you've probably read reviews in GP) are heavily back-subscribed. I've been looking into the possibility of using a completely analogue signal path, digitally controlled; unfortunately digital pots are quite expensive! But a unit with only a few parameters (eg Vortex, RP5 or whatever), where each could be set to a value, assigned to a CC input or the onboard LFO (which could itself be assigned to the CC), would be vastly cool. If we could arrange to distribute the effort and cost so that we could produce in batches of, say 100 or so we would be in a better position to do it as a sideline rather than ditching our jobs in favour of this, esp. as we'd need to sink less capital into it at a time, and we'd be better able to make only as many as we sell. Jon and Kim, out of interest, how many Plexes, Texes and JamMen are out there? I realise I'm probably blathering here, and merely showing my complete ignorance on matters big and businesslike, but hell, I think this would be fun! :) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:41 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 12:52:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi4zH-00040i-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:52:39 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3AFB6.2BFC@interaccess.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:31:40 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Building an FX Device References: <970108132349_74074.1316_GHQ40-5@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4vsYsD.A.lhD.whA1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1588 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:52:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 585d8d1711988c02f3e0698c2586380a Jon Durant wrote: > > > The big issue is: is there a market out there? So far the returns on Jam/Plex > etc have indicated not. If someone asked me if I'd be involved in a company that > made *only* looping devices, I'd say no. Too risky. But a new effect/processing > company with a little bit of creative vision *is* a real option. Consider how > many people hate Digitech/Alesis/etc but still buy the stuff anyway. Well, what > if someone new came in and answered the issues, made the right products at the > right prices. Thought about the user for a change. Hmmm.... I have to agree with Mr. Durant here. I think the market for a dedicated looping device is rather small, but a truly interesting and flexible effects device could be a different story entirely. Off and on for the past several weeks I've been looking at products such as SuperCollider and Kyma for creative sound maipulation. Both of these products allow one virtually unlimited creativity in sound production. How about a Vortex Fractal B patch with four dual delay paths, each delay adjustable from a few millisecs to several seconds, with various lfo's to control panning, and perhaps some FM thrown in for good measure? SuperCollider is a relatively inexpensive ($300) program for power macintoshes that uses the CPU for signal processing. It can input straight from the mac's sound in ports, and send the sound right back out. The bad part is that thanks to various output buffers, there is a minimum delay from signal input to signal output, which in the few tests I've been able to do with the demo program, is a minimum of around 0.4 seconds. That is workable for doing loops, but very frustrating given the tonal modifications it can do. Another issue with SuperCollider is that it's patches are written in a relatively terse lisp dialect. This is great if you're a programmer, anything can be modifed sample by sample, but would suck if all you want to do is modify a few obvious parameters. SuperCollider does have the ability to build simple dialogs to control parameters, though. The Kyma system is just about opposite in all parameters. It is *VERY* expensive, at $4500, does not have a large minimum delay (reportedly 10ms for most operations), and does have a graphic patch editor. Kyma comes with a DSP mainframe that holds 8 cards, each with a 66MHz 56K DSP chip and 3MB ram for samples. The base unit (included in the price) comes with two cards. Add a couple more cards ($600 each) and you can do some truly outrageous stuff, such as a detailed FFT analysis of the signal, modify the analysis data in the frequency domain, then resynthesize it, all in real time (but with a 0.5 sec or so delay). I doubt that even Eventide can do pitch shifting that accurately. So, Kyma is very nice, but proprietary hardware makes me nervous, what with dual CPU 250 MHz Macs coming on the scene, and, well, gosh, that price is a bit steep. Though, giving them credit, it's not that bad compared to say an Eventide 4000, and there really isn't any competition for it. The approach I'd like to take is to build a simple PCI card to provide high quality analog ins and outs with very little delay, modify SuperCollider to use that card for i/o, and build a gui patch editor for it. The selling price could easily be kept under $1000 (or less?). That doesn't include the computer, but then many folks have them anyway, and the software/expansion card solution avoids investing in proprietary hardware. In return, you get a sound creation/manipulation platform that is utterly flexible. Someone could program it to be the ultimate analog synth, or try physical modeling, or build a guitar synth that merges the two, have bizzare arpeggiators track audio signals without midi conversion delays. And then add a second i/o card for quadraphonic sound...with quadraphonic delays, of course! Jim From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:43 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 12:53:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi50R-00046d-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:53:51 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3B4BC.BC7@interaccess.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:52:47 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) References: <970108132349_74074.1316_GHQ40-5@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uEw_qC.A.VfD.ghA1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1587 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:53:51 -0800 X-UIDL: b1ec02276284aaa1c69d5de130577b29 Jon Durant wrote: > > The big issue is: is there a market out there? So far the returns on Jam/Plex > etc have indicated not. If someone asked me if I'd be involved in a company that > made *only* looping devices, I'd say no. Too risky. But a new effect/processing > company with a little bit of creative vision *is* a real option. Consider how > many people hate Digitech/Alesis/etc but still buy the stuff anyway. Well, what > if someone new came in and answered the issues, made the right products at the > right prices. Thought about the user for a change. Hmmm.... I have to agree with Mr. Durant here. I think the market for a dedicated looping device is rather small, but a truly interesting and flexible effects device could be a different story entirely. Off and on for the past several weeks I've been looking at products such as SuperCollider and Kyma for creative sound maipulation. Both of these products allow one virtually unlimited creativity in sound production. How about a Vortex Fractal B patch with four dual delay paths, each delay adjustable from a few millisecs to several seconds, with various lfo's to control panning, and perhaps some FM thrown in for good measure? SuperCollider is a relatively inexpensive ($300) program for power macintoshes that uses the CPU for signal processing. It can input straight from the mac's sound in ports, and send the sound right back out. The bad part is that thanks to various output buffers, there is a minimum delay from signal input to signal output, which in the few tests I've been able to do with the demo program, is a minimum of around 0.4 seconds. That is workable for doing loops, but very frustrating otherwise, particularly given its ability for tonal modifications. Another issue with SuperCollider is that it's patches are written in a relatively terse lisp dialect. This is great if you're a programmer, anything can be modifed sample by sample, but would suck if all you want to do is modify a few obvious parameters. SuperCollider does have the ability to build simple dialogs to control parameters, though. The Kyma system is just about opposite in all ways. It is *VERY* expensive, at $4500, does not have a large minimum delay (reportedly 10ms for most operations), and does have a graphic patch editor. Kyma comes with a DSP mainframe that holds 8 cards, each with a 66MHz 56K DSP chip and 3MB ram for samples. The base unit (included in the price) comes with two cards. Add a couple more cards ($600 each) and you can do some truly outrageous stuff, such as a detailed FFT analysis of the signal, modify the analysis data in the frequency domain, then resynthesize it, all in real time (but with a 0.5 sec or so delay). I doubt that even Eventide can do pitch shifting that accurately. So, Kyma is very nice, but proprietary hardware makes me nervous, what with dual CPU 250 MHz Macs coming on the scene, and, well, gosh, that price is a bit steep. Though, giving them credit, it's not that bad compared to say an Eventide 4000, and there really isn't any competition for it. The approach I'd like to take is to build a simple PCI card to provide high quality analog ins and outs with very little delay, modify SuperCollider to use that card for i/o, and build a gui patch editor for it. The selling price could easily be kept under $1000 (or less?). That doesn't include the computer, but then many folks have them anyway, and the software/audio-io card solution avoids investing in proprietary hardware. In return, you get a sound creation/manipulation platform that is utterly flexible. Someone could program it to be the ultimate analog synth, or try physical modeling, or build a guitar synth that merges the two, have bizzare arpeggiators track audio signals without midi conversion delays. And then add a second i/o card for quadraphonic sound...with quadraphonic delays, of course! Jim From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 09:58:48 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 09:21:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi1gg-0006DA-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:21:14 -0800 Message-Id: <1483.199701081718@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:18:59 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: BYO loopers/FX Resent-Message-ID: <"S0s0fB.A.8pF.yb90y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1585 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:21:14 -0800 X-UIDL: c213e0f191414b7125e196e964f81cae Matthias >>All we need >>is to know whether there exists a market for such a box (or whether it's >>viable to build one for the few we know that want 'em - like everyone >>here..) >Yes, yes... seems to be real simple, huh? >I built 100 LOOP delays and with the help of some friends we sold them in a >year. Some people got angry because they were more expensive than a >comparable mass product and less good tested and we had some trouble... not >that bad, but rather for younger people who can stand to loose sleep... Fortunately, the pendulum seems to have now swung our way - having a hand-built item is considered an advantage! >How many of you guys could afford a PCM80 under this condition? No Way. >I do not doubt that the market exists, but how to reach it best? Review in GP? Favourable, of course!!! If we're producing items in small runs, would we benefit from specifically-targeted FX? You know, the Allan Holdworth 8-delay system, etc. Would there be a market for the Hex Fuzz simulator - 10 narrow bandpass filters with fuzz ccts following, so that if you play a chord each note falls into a different filter and gets fuzzed (ie converted to square wave) separately? Ideal for the Robert Fripp types. And so on. Just a few thoughts, usually developed when walking my dog. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 09:58:51 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 09:35:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi1IO-0004yC-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:56:08 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:59:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"q2PuPC.A.OgE.BE90y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1583 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:56:08 -0800 X-UIDL: b31d3142936b75cd2921fd56861cb6ea Dr. "Spoon" Michael: >No, just thought I'd stir up some trouble! :) worked. >All we need >is to know whether there exists a market for such a box (or whether it's >viable to build one for the few we know that want 'em - like everyone >here..) Yes, yes... seems to be real simple, huh? I built 100 LOOP delays and with the help of some friends we sold them in a year. Some people got angry because they were more expensive than a comparable mass product and less good tested and we had some trouble... not that bad, but rather for younger people who can stand to loose sleep... :-) I do not doubt that the market exists, but how to reach it best? Matthias From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 09:58:49 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 09:28:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi1Ih-0004zF-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:56:27 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:59:32 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors Resent-Message-ID: <"u3V0mC.A.chE.KE90y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1584 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:56:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 86b16b2cb1bfd22e4b2628e89fbcfa52 David said it: >The PCM-80 also is expandable to over 42 sec STEREO delay with standard >30-pin SIMMS, but it's twice the $$$, unexpanded, and ain't a real multiFX... You can combine like Pitch and Reverb or even have two mono effects independently (yes, this one is real stereo!). I guess it would be possible to produce Loop and Reverb simultaneously, hopefully even with pitch, which would give it a whole new dimension! How many of you guys could afford a PCM80 under this condition? Hope its gona happen! Matthias From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:45 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 13:14:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi5Kh-0005ND-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:14:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:12:26 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701082112.AA27422@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: hex fuzz Resent-Message-ID: <"vPVr4B.A.E3E.z2A1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1589 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:14:47 -0800 X-UIDL: aa5c236f02b2c667b26149587925da5b Kevin and Michael contributed ... >Michael Wrote... > >> Would there be a market for the Hex Fuzz simulator - 10 narrow bandpass >> filters with fuzz ccts following, so that if you play a chord each note >> falls into a different filter and gets fuzzed (ie converted to square wave) >> separately? Ideal for the Robert Fripp types. And so on. > >That almost describes the Roland GR100 module perfectly, except that the hex >fuzz signal paths are combines internally. I'm thinking that even narrow bandpass filters will grunge up pretty badly. Many unpleasant fuzz effects come from minor 3rds, 2nds, minor 2nds, etc., and these are all too common in guitar chord voicings. I'm sure that prefiltering into multi-fuzzes sounds different, but I'm guessing that the only a hex pixup will give independent processing. But then, a "Hex Fuzz simulator" may offer some nice qualities of its own. On another topic, if anyone out there is knowledgable about using Power Macs for recording to disk, I'm looking for some advice for home studio applications. I'm considering buying a PM in lieu of (at least fore awhile) an ADAT. Feel free to reply directly to me. Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group 401 Blockley Hall University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 662-7214 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:46 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 13:33:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi5ca-0006iM-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:33:16 -0800 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 15:26:41 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9700088527.AA852765926@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: hex fuzz Resent-Message-ID: <"iX8-9B.A.EHG.4HB1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1590 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:33:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 25109c985e98c63078d6413f1d6320e8 Hey! I actually owned a GR100 for about seven years, along with the Roland G202 guitar and I really regret selling it - that was a really fun guitar as far as creating unusual textures goes - it was somewhere between a guitar and a synth, sort of orchestral and the lead tones were gorgeous. Chords were a real trip since they didn't give you that power chord sound standard pickups through an overdrive gave you...what was cool was taking the power chord type sound and mixing it with the hex fuzz for a really powerful sound. Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: hex fuzz From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 1/8/97 3:10 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Kevin and Michael contributed ... >Michael Wrote... > >> Would there be a market for the Hex Fuzz simulator - 10 narrow bandpass >> filters with fuzz ccts following, so that if you play a chord each note >> falls into a different filter and gets fuzzed (ie converted to square wave) >> separately? Ideal for the Robert Fripp types. And so on. > >That almost describes the Roland GR100 module perfectly, except that the hex >fuzz signal paths are combines internally. I'm thinking that even narrow bandpass filters will grunge up pretty badly. Many unpleasant fuzz effects come from minor 3rds, 2nds, minor 2nds, etc., and these are all too common in guitar chord voicings. I'm sure that prefiltering into multi-fuzzes sounds different, but I'm guessing that the only a hex pixup will give independent processing. But then, a "Hex Fuzz simulator" may offer some nice qualities of its own. On another topic, if anyone out there is knowledgable about using Power Macs for recording to disk, I'm looking for some advice for home studio applications. I'm considering buying a PM in lieu of (at least fore awhile) an ADAT. Feel free to reply directly to me. Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group 401 Blockley Hall University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 662-7214 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Wed, 08 Jan 97 15:10:43 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA13586 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:21:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi5Js-0005Ir-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:13:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:12:26 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701082112.AA27422@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: hex fuzz Resent-Message-ID: <"vPVr4B.A.E3E.z2A1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1589 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:13:56 -0800 From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:33 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 12:31:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi4ez-0002Ys-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:31:41 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199701082032.AA268855538@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re: BYO loopers/FX To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:32:18 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: <1483.199701081718@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> from "Dr M. P. Hughes" at Jan 8, 97 05:18:59 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"0cpIKC.A.YMC.1NA1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1586 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:31:41 -0800 X-UIDL: ce20c5c3586dbdac8f172c42840d342f Michael Wrote... > Would there be a market for the Hex Fuzz simulator - 10 narrow bandpass > filters with fuzz ccts following, so that if you play a chord each note > falls into a different filter and gets fuzzed (ie converted to square wave) > separately? Ideal for the Robert Fripp types. And so on. That almost describes the Roland GR100 module perfectly, except that the hex fuzz signal paths are combines internally. -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. Computer Science, et al. * Springfield, IL simonson@eagle.uis.edu * From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:55 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 15:52:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi7nD-0000HI-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:52:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 17:47:12 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9700088527.AA852774323@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) Resent-Message-ID: <"KXkyGC.A.gF.DLD1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1592 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:52:23 -0800 X-UIDL: d8ce88090750a8d423d08c08d001e56e Guys: Try Macromedia's Deck II, which is bundled along with SoundEdit16. It allows multi-track recording and access to Adobe Premiere plug-ins and does real time, non-destructive editing. I've played live, heavily distorted wailing guitars that have been vortexed into Deck II and further processed them there. The demo version of Deck II is FREE with January's MacAddict magazine CD-ROM - get it while you can as there also is a free copy of SoundEdit16's demo version as well as Peak by Bias, among other super cool sound software including all the demo CybersoundFX (chorus, flange, pitch shift, reverb, delay, compression, etcetera). Get it! Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 1/8/97 2:48 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Jon Durant wrote: > > The big issue is: is there a market out there? So far the returns on Jam/Plex > etc have indicated not. If someone asked me if I'd be involved in a company that > made *only* looping devices, I'd say no. Too risky. But a new effect/processing > company with a little bit of creative vision *is* a real option. Consider how > many people hate Digitech/Alesis/etc but still buy the stuff anyway. Well, what > if someone new came in and answered the issues, made the right products at the > right prices. Thought about the user for a change. Hmmm.... I have to agree with Mr. Durant here. I think the market for a dedicated looping device is rather small, but a truly interesting and flexible effects device could be a different story entirely. Off and on for the past several weeks I've been looking at products such as SuperCollider and Kyma for creative sound maipulation. Both of these products allow one virtually unlimited creativity in sound production. How about a Vortex Fractal B patch with four dual delay paths, each delay adjustable from a few millisecs to several seconds, with various lfo's to control panning, and perhaps some FM thrown in for good measure? SuperCollider is a relatively inexpensive ($300) program for power macintoshes that uses the CPU for signal processing. It can input straight from the mac's sound in ports, and send the sound right back out. The bad part is that thanks to various output buffers, there is a minimum delay from signal input to signal output, which in the few tests I've been able to do with the demo program, is a minimum of around 0.4 seconds. That is workable for doing loops, but very frustrating otherwise, particularly given its ability for tonal modifications. Another issue with SuperCollider is that it's patches are written in a relatively terse lisp dialect. This is great if you're a programmer, anything can be modifed sample by sample, but would suck if all you want to do is modify a few obvious parameters. SuperCollider does have the ability to build simple dialogs to control parameters, though. The Kyma system is just about opposite in all ways. It is *VERY* expensive, at $4500, does not have a large minimum delay (reportedly 10ms for most operations), and does have a graphic patch editor. Kyma comes with a DSP mainframe that holds 8 cards, each with a 66MHz 56K DSP chip and 3MB ram for samples. The base unit (included in the price) comes with two cards. Add a couple more cards ($600 each) and you can do some truly outrageous stuff, such as a detailed FFT analysis of the signal, modify the analysis data in the frequency domain, then resynthesize it, all in real time (but with a 0.5 sec or so delay). I doubt that even Eventide can do pitch shifting that accurately. So, Kyma is very nice, but proprietary hardware makes me nervous, what with dual CPU 250 MHz Macs coming on the scene, and, well, gosh, that price is a bit steep. Though, giving them credit, it's not that bad compared to say an Eventide 4000, and there really isn't any competition for it. The approach I'd like to take is to build a simple PCI card to provide high quality analog ins and outs with very little delay, modify SuperCollider to use that card for i/o, and build a gui patch editor for it. The selling price could easily be kept under $1000 (or less?). That doesn't include the computer, but then many folks have them anyway, and the software/audio-io card solution avoids investing in proprietary hardware. In return, you get a sound creation/manipulation platform that is utterly flexible. Someone could program it to be the ultimate analog synth, or try physical modeling, or build a guitar synth that merges the two, have bizzare arpeggiators track audio signals without midi conversion delays. And then add a second i/o card for quadraphonic sound...with quadraphonic delays, of course! Jim Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Wed, 08 Jan 97 14:48:53 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA13404 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:59:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi4yn-0003yI-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:52:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3B4BC.BC7@interaccess.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:52:47 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) References: <970108132349_74074.1316_GHQ40-5@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uEw_qC.A.VfD.ghA1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1587 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:52:09 -0800 From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:53 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 15:37:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vi7Yy-00072O-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:37:40 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199701082339.AA121016756@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re: hex fuzz To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:39:16 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: <9700088527.AA852765926@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> from "Todd Madson" at Jan 8, 97 03:26:41 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"A6tNqD.A.jbG.P9C1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1591 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:37:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 9f9ab2038ddec7ededdddfa7657e13bc > > I'm thinking that even narrow bandpass filters will grunge up pretty > badly. Many unpleasant fuzz effects come from minor 3rds, 2nds, minor > 2nds, etc., and these are all too common in guitar chord voicings. > I'm sure that prefiltering into multi-fuzzes sounds different, but > I'm guessing that the only a hex pixup will give independent processing. > But then, a "Hex Fuzz simulator" may offer some nice qualities of its > own. To digress further from the list subject matter, Craig Anderton's Quadrafuzz unit kit from Paia seperates incoming signals into four discreet channels, and then applies a fuzz process to each one. Has anyone compiled a list of potentially useful delays, ie. 3 seconds+ ? I would certainly be open to starting one. If you are aware of devices that fit this description, please email me privately, and I will compile the list. Anything goes! Thanks -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. Computer Science, et al. * Springfield, IL simonson@eagle.uis.edu * From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:18:57 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 19:41:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viBMf-0006QW-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:41:13 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 2 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 15:36:39 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"72834:1*"@MHS> Subject: Re: building our own looper To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"RvL3oB.A.93F.9gG1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1593 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:41:13 -0800 X-UIDL: f14bf5fd47e5092abdd6fc61e7e88816 Item Subject: Lotus Notes Message Text I'd like to see PAiA or a similar company (small, cheap, mailorder, do-it-yourself-kits) come out with a looper. If such a thing was available, I think they'd be hard put to deal with the demand. I know the biggest impediment to me buying a Jamman, Echoplex or Boomerang is $$$ - I just can't justify the cost for a single-purpose effect that I wouldn't be using a lot of the time. For now, I'll stick to my crappy old Boss PS-2 pedal with its 2 seconds of delay. If you consider all the techo knowledge and experience that's on this mailing list, we'd have to be able to spec out a design (assuming everyone suddenly got a few months with nothing else to do!). As an aside: with memory coming down in price so fast recently, I can't see why you'd need to feel limited by sample resolution or sample time any more - just build in provision for the box to take standard SIMMs up to (say) 64Mb. I really hope this discussion in "fanning the creative flames" of someone out there... Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:19:00 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 21:42:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viDFg-0006PC-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:42:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:40:03 -0800 (PST) From: "A.S.P." Reply-To: "A.S.P." To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: building our own looper In-Reply-To: <"72834:1*"@MHS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"C9sJ8.A.f1F.ySI1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1594 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:42:08 -0800 X-UIDL: c661733a102df0d0c999058039162c80 Hello Loopheads, I've been lurking on this list for a couple of weeks and am enjoying it quite a bit. The reason I got on the list is because I'm seriously contemplating getting an Oberheim Echoplex. I recently finished building my first modular synthesizer. I bought an Emax II sampler to complement it, but I'm finding that non-realtime instruments less and less attractive. One thing I'm trying to figure out is if the Echoplex would be redundant, because I use an analogue sequencer to drive the modular, which in essence is an "analogue" of a tape loop. Do any of you use loop delays with synths and sequencers? One thing I think is really sad is that the Echoplex isn't stereo. The thought of parallel loops and stereo makes my brain feel all gooey inside. BTW, what brought me out of lurk mode: if you are seriously thinking of designing a loop box, you might consider pooling this list's resources with those of synth-diy. Synth-diy is dedicated to building electronic music instruments and processing (mostly analogue, but digital is welcome). Already a diy monosynth for the masses has resulted from this list, not to mention the other projects that are cooking at all times. To subscribe send mail to: majordomo@horus.sara.nl with the line 'subscribe synth-diy' in the message body. Romeo ----- ms20@serv.net From ???@??? Wed Jan 08 23:19:07 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 22:49:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viEIc-0003a2-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:49:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:47:03 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970109003059_1090387341@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hex fuzz Resent-Message-ID: <"xQkBnC.A.DRD.sSJ1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1595 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:49:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 7470ae902c348efc17cf45e2ffc2cedd In a message dated 1/8/97 5:14:10 PM, a Looper wrote: <> Consider the ROLAND VG-8: hex pickup and a "Poly-manager," which controls how the six signals are blended or kept separate as they go thru the distortion controls...it's really the current s.o.t.art in guitar synthesis. <> Pertentent query! Check out Cubase VST, and Hyperprism for very close to real-time FX, while recording or not, including delays with Hyperprism, which doesn't even require a PowerPC. A Looping "plug-in" with MIDI control doesn't seem like a lot to ask for...maybe even quite easily hack-able...??? David From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 00:36:08 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 8 23:47:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viFDC-00005N-00; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:47:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 02:46:34 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: JamMan Rumors (attempt 2!) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01IDZRWYINW28ZHUBM@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"2K5C9D.A.G.hJK1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1596 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:47:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 0bd3bb591429898112fa08a92939c633 Jon wrote, re the Ultimate Looper; >The big issue is: is there a market out there? So far the returns on >Jam/Plex etc have indicated not. I think there is, but fragmented in such a way that communication with the various elements of the market would be difficult. There have to be horn players, violinists, harmonica players, etc. who'd love to have enough of "their playing, only more of it" to be able to perform without a band. There has to be a significant number of vocalists who'd like to do a Bobby McFerrin-like act, but maybe can't pull it off without electronic assistance. And there have to be DJs who could profit from footswitches and MIDI control. The issue I see is, how do you reach the imaginative, frustrated subsets of all these groups, who may be hungry for the right looping device and not even know it? Another issue is whether a single box could meet the needs of all or most potential users, at a price that wouldn't eliminate many of them. If I were a DJ, I'd certainly want hands-free capability on my phrase sampler, as well as the ability to mutate a sample rather than merely repeating it...but the folks marketing phrase samplers don't seem to see it that way. And, of course, I'm not a DJ. But I doubt that any new looper would succeed if marketed only to guitarists. John mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 00:36:09 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 00:12:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viFaj-0001ae-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:12:01 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:11:19 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: square wave help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9qNpQB.A.1YB.VgK1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1597 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:12:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 72b0c9990f2eef069a9f70e495dec1f6 hi folks, in my digitech studio quad is an lfo which runs, among others, a square wave pattern. i understand that the square wave is -more or less- a fuzz/overdrive/distortion type sound. i can assign the lfo to modulate any parameter in the effects section, but i'm very unclear as to how to generate a fuzz tone. the square wave can be set to run at anything between .06hz and 16hz... any ideas? **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 10:00:10 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 01:03:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viGO9-0004Rs-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:03:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970109090236.00673d68@on-ramp.ior.com> X-Sender: eriks@on-ramp.ior.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 01:02:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: erik simpson Subject: Re: another survey question Resent-Message-ID: <"Vihtr.A.vGE.EQL1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1598 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:03:05 -0800 X-UIDL: a288f2a9ee60922bd0c31079544ec359 At 07:47 PM 1/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >hi folks, > >i've a brief but interesting question for my project... > >what are the various lists which you subscribe to? if you'll send me the >name of it, the listserv/majordomo etc. address, and a description of the >stuff contained... i'll compile them in my project. >please send replies to me. thanks. Digital Guitar Digest-like it sounds >pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu Elephant Talk-King Crimson and Robert Fripp >et@cs.man.ac.uk Sylvian Digest-David Sylvian and related >sylvian@arastar.com Nerve Net-Brian Eno >nervenet@noc.pue.udlap.mx Avalon-Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music >avalon@ecto.org Door X-David Torn >door-x@umich.edu Smelly Tongues-the Residents >kimba@UH.EDU John Cale-like it says >johncale@sfo.com Richard Thompson digest-ditto >r-thompson@njitgw.njit.edu Seance-the Church This sounds like alot a grouped together, but most are fairly low volume and thus manageable. Loopers Delight is the busiest group I am on. But if any of these above artists were to suddenly put out a new album that could change suddenly. Bye; erik reid simpson eriks@on-ramp.ior.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 10:00:19 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 06:43:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viLhQ-0005M3-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 06:43:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32D4BE02.5776@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:44:34 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: building our own looper References: <"72834:1*"@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TY0ig.A.F5E.rNQ1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1599 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 06:43:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 405810b972e48cf793fe59e333d0b128 David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com wrote: > > Item Subject: Lotus Notes Message Text > > I'd like to see PAiA or a similar company (small, cheap, mailorder, > do-it-yourself-kits) come out with a looper. If such a thing was > available, I think they'd be hard put to deal with the demand. I know the > biggest impediment to me buying a Jamman, Echoplex or Boomerang is $$$ - I > just can't justify the cost for a single-purpose effect that I wouldn't be > using a lot of the time. For now, I'll stick to my crappy old Boss PS-2 > pedal with its 2 seconds of delay. > > If you consider all the techo knowledge and experience that's on this > mailing list, we'd have to be able to spec out a design (assuming everyone > suddenly got a few months with nothing else to do!). As an aside: with > memory coming down in price so fast recently, I can't see why you'd need to > feel limited by sample resolution or sample time any more - just build in > provision for the box to take standard SIMMs up to (say) 64Mb. > > I really hope this discussion in "fanning the creative flames" of someone > out there... > > Dave Mitchell > Hello all. I think that I am coming from exactly the oposite direction. The last thing that I want to do is to have to spend a small fortune buying some kitchen sink effects processor so that I can use one or two effects. IMHO (at least in my price range) effects boxes are like cameras- the more stuff that is built in, the lower the quality of those features. I'm sure that the Eventide XYZDPDQ2000 has pitchshifting that is as swell as their looping, but I don't really have a $100K for it. I have two multieffectors (the irreplacable quadraverb, no doubt dear to us all, and an LXP-15+) but they only have a few effects on them each that I like. I have been a DIY guy since the first day I bought my guitar and my bridge bickup mysteriously conked out, buy I don't know if I have the savoire faire to build my own looper (at least not yet). As limited as my skills are, I still think that in relation to must musicians I am fairly knowledgable. I think a kit would be far too complicated and would alienate most of your market. **** I guess I should take the time and say that I really like this mailing list. Kim, thanks for getting me that info I asked for, and thanks to all the people that put up with my questions in the beginning. From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 10:28:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 10:19:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viP4T-0001dq-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:19:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199701091817.KAA16714@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: building our own looper Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 12:17:53 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"DNN9PD.A.HTB.9XT1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1601 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:19:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 0ce61248f4ab5fef9faaacbc502b45c4 >But Lexicon were really smart >when they designed the Vortex - rather than saying "let's build a >competitor to the 9050/q+/Tubefex/etc" they produced something that 50% of >the people on this list would kill rather than lose. Metaphorically. "Ah, >but it flopped." No MIDI. >A case of not listening to the market. I think part of the reason the the Vortex flopped was that it was had no MIDI and it was too expensive. I love mine, but I bought it for $150 in the Guitar Center blowout. I would never have bought it for the original price. Adding MIDI would have probably put another $100-200 on the price and driven further into the Lexicon Hall of Shame. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 10:00:21 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 09:03:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viNsc-0004N1-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:03:02 -0800 Message-Id: <23054.199701091658@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:58:52 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: building our own looper Resent-Message-ID: <"mpQrMB.A.9xD.6OS1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1600 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:03:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 998c2c7b569d757861241586e6ed81cf David_Mitchell: >> I know the >> biggest impediment to me buying a Jamman, Echoplex or Boomerang is $$$ - I >> just can't justify the cost for a single-purpose effect that I wouldn't be >> using a lot of the time. For now, I'll stick to my crappy old Boss PS-2 >> pedal with its 2 seconds of delay. I don't think we'll really be undercutting the boomerang by any degree, whatever we do. >> If you consider all the techo knowledge and experience that's on this >> mailing list, we'd have to be able to spec out a design (assuming everyone >> suddenly got a few months with nothing else to do!). As an aside: with >> memory coming down in price so fast recently, I can't see why you'd need to >> feel limited by sample resolution or sample time any more - just build in >> provision for the box to take standard SIMMs up to (say) 64Mb. Absolutely. The one complaint everyone has is that there's no stereo capacity, so a 60sec mono/30sec stereo option would be feasible. Trevor Bajus: >IMHO (at least in my price range) effects boxes are like cameras- the more >>stuff that is built in, the lower the quality of those features. I'm sure >that >the Eventide XYZDPDQ2000 has pitchshifting that is as swell as their >looping, >but I don't really have a $100K for it. I have two multieffectors >(the >irreplacable quadraverb, no doubt dear to us all, and an LXP-15+) but >they only >have a few effects on them each that I like. > We're never goint to make a better harmoniser than Eventide. We're never going to make a better reverb than Lexicon. But Lexicon were really smart when they designed the Vortex - rather than saying "let's build a competitor to the 9050/q+/Tubefex/etc" they produced something that 50% of the people on this list would kill rather than lose. Metaphorically. "Ah, but it flopped." No MIDI. A case of not listening to the market. However, we have the advantage that we _are_ the market. We should all be looking to Matthias' example here - only 100 LoopDelays were sold, but he started something wonderful in the process. >I have been a DIY guy since the first day I bought my guitar and my bridge >>bickup mysteriously conked out, buy I don't know if I have the savoire faire >to >build my own looper (at least not yet). As limited as my skills are, I >still >think that in relation to must musicians I am fairly knowledgable. I >think a >kit would be far too complicated and would alienate most of your >market. Agreed. Besides, since any processor we make is a niche product - we're never going to outsell Digitech, so why just make another RP10? - I think the people that niche would fit would probably be willing to go the extra and pay for a built version. I think a kit is a no-goer, or certainly there could be an option but it shouldn't be marketed as one. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 10:28:15 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 10:07:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viOtF-0000hk-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:07:45 -0800 X-From_:malhomme@infobiogen.fr Thu Jan 09 10:07:43 1997 Received: from lovelace.infobiogen.fr [193.52.226.4] (malhomme) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viOtB-0000fi-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:07:41 -0800 Received: from localhost (malhomme@localhost) by lovelace.infobiogen.fr (8.8.4/8.8.4/mr-2.0) with SMTP id TAA18268 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:07:20 +0100 (MET) Old-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:07:19 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: ???? Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:07:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 23712198a4a98ef3414e7fa49d0427f9 Hey stop what what WHAT??? The allan Holdsworth 8 delay system? I knew he was making juice-extractor like boxes but, what is this delay stuff??? Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Jan 09 19:58:49 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 16:10:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viUY7-0002Mc-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:10:19 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5871F.1F75@abilene.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 18:02:39 -0600 From: yossari@abilene.com (Mike Miller) X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Help...from a non-looper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DN8HhB.A.svB.deY1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1602 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:10:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 157633dadd9e8c4136f4d19cedc51918 After being heavily influenced by the Fripp soundscape recordings released in the last 2 years, I have a strong desire to experiment with the looping technique/style. so...I would appreciate ANY advice/suggestions on the following questions: 1)What BASIC equipment/devices should one begin with?? 2)and What are the approximate prices on this equipment?? 3)Where can I purchase them?? Please mailto:yossari@abilene.com All comments would be highly appreciated. Hopefully, looping will someday be brought to my sleepy West TX town. Brian Baggett yossarian@abilene.com Maple #1283 From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 00:01:25 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 21:52:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0viZsq-000210-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:52:04 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:50:24 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: building our own looper To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01IE1269QN368ZHUD4@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"4x93wB.A.NzB.kid1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1603 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:52:04 -0800 X-UIDL: cc33cd07896cfd6e31231909ed5abd38 Dave Mitchell wrote, >I'd like to see PAiA or a similar company (small, cheap, mailorder, >do-it-yourself-kits) come out with a looper. Me, too--I have a lot more time than money. Both assembling it myself and cutting out the middlepersons would cut the cost drastically. >If you consider all the techo knowledge and experience that's on this >mailing list, we'd have to be able to spec out a design (assuming everyone >suddenly got a few months with nothing else to do!). Here, I'm not so sure--I think input from potential users other than guitarists might go a long way toward raising the odds of the device's viability. Pardon me for looping a thought from an earlier message, but I suspect the JamHombre might have fared better in the marketplace had DJs, horn players, etc. been more aware of its potential for them, and their potential with it. However, I certainly feel this is the ideal place to start. :-) John mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 00:01:27 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 9 23:36:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vibVT-00078D-00; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:36:03 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5E419.20D5@bgsuvax.bgsu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:39:21 -0400 From: Jeff Schwartz X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Intro/JamMan memory References: <01IE1269QN368ZHUD4@delphi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tl704D.A.SmG.TEf1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1604 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:36:03 -0800 X-UIDL: f25f2b31a06a3958fdbf0a3988d3d561 This is my first message to the list, so I just want to say howdy to everyone. I've really enjoyed everything I've seen so far. This is an impressively serious and talented group. I play solo guitar (a homemade Strat or an Epiphone Joe Pass) with a Digitech 2 second delay, Vortex, Rat, JamMan, and sometimes a volume or wah. I gig at rock clubs, doing short improv sets at an open mike or opening for noisy rock bands. Influences are the usual: Fripp, Frisell, Sharrock, but since I haven't played in improv/noise/avant-whatever settings, I also do a lot of songs where I play melody and solos over a loop, just cool rock and jazz tunes that work over a short vamp: Coltrane's "India," "Louie Louie," Sharrock's "The End of the Rainbow," lots of 70s Miles Davis, "Cissy Strut," McCoy Tyner's "Walk Spirit, Talk Spirit," "A Horse with No Name," some Santana, some Prince/0(+>, etc. Currently, I'm digging DJ Spooky and David Shea, and a lot of my improv involves sampling a sound or lick with the Digitech, then tweaking the delay time knob to use it as a crude theremin and building loops on the JamMan out of the mutated original sound. It seems like that's similar to some of the sample manipulations DJs do, and it's cool to do it in semi-real time to my own playing. Anyway, I want to expand the memory on my Jamster, so maybe some of you could e-mail me the best sources for the chips I need. Thanks a lot. I look foward to hearing more from this list. -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 10:30:41 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 06:26:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vihv5-0003lg-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:26:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32D60BC0.507E@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:28:32 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Anybody want to upgrade? References: <199701101248.EAA23121@dsp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TudV-D.A.icD.kEl1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1609 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:26:55 -0800 X-UIDL: b3fba74df6f4cb150040d407645be8ad I don't know if this is inapropriate for this mailing list but does anyone want to sell their JamDude so that they can upgrade to the echoplex? You can email me privately at: nyfac2@nyfac.com I had a deal on one, but know it is gone... Thanks, Trevor. From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 10:30:30 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 00:50:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vicfo-0002Kj-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:50:48 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:35:52 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: hex fuzz Resent-Message-ID: <"lKZzsC.A.kkB.73f1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1605 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:50:48 -0800 X-UIDL: fe44158aa9f93209507a7675285cdfd9 I produced 10 units (!) of POLYDISTORTION at PARADIS, 10 years ago. Its still basic for my music. Piezo pickups can separate strings sufficiantly, magnetics still give some interference. Filtering of the mono sound would be a lot worse. Matthias From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 10:30:35 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 02:50:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vieXu-0005di-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:50:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199701101137.LAA21797@loki.genan.it> Reply-To: From: "Stefano Voulaz" To: Subject: R: another survey question Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:38:15 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XkNgkC.A.PCF.lwh1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1606 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:50:46 -0800 X-UIDL: d3a04e1518984ad90d97a6e55033d821 Hi Erik! I am just wondering how to subscribe to the following lists you mentioned in response to the survey question: Elephant Talk-King Crimson and Robert Fripp >et@cs.man.ac.uk Sylvian Digest-David Sylvian and related >sylvian@arastar.com Door X-David Torn >door-x@umich.edu Thanks for the help! Stefano Voulaz - The Uncle 8^)# From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 10:30:47 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 09:27:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vikja-0004Rw-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:27:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199701101723.JAA25470@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 11:24:11 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"oH3P_D.A.Z3D.jrn1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1610 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:27:14 -0800 X-UIDL: ffdc14fa413e3526578052a08ba699bd The noise that occurs at times when using the reverse function is supposedly corrected with the legendary Currently Unavailable Software Upgrade. My Echoplex is very quiet. Also, earlier I'd reported flickering LED's at power up. This stopped after about two weeks. Someone else on the list had reported the same thing, so if it happens to you, give it a few weeks to burn in, or something. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 10:30:38 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 04:50:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vigPV-0000WE-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:50:13 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:48:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199701101248.EAA23121@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: echoplex weirdness Resent-Message-ID: <"tMhqL.A.oa.5qj1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1608 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:50:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 5cc537d9bb05fada18739b8caff5054b hi all, i'm new to the list, and just got my echoplex the other day (i've been using a jamperson for a while). it's quite keen, but i'm experiencing some weirdness with it, and i was wondering if anyone could tell me if it's normal or if i got a bad unit (i'm tired of bonding with the answering machine at oberheim tech support). if there's a FAQ that answers my questions, i would appreciate it if someone would direct me to it. does anyone else's plex produce unpleasant clicks and pops when reversing a loop? the more i reverse and re-reverse, the more clicks get added to the signal. also, my unit seems inordinately noisy, even with a healthy signal level (the playback is much noisier than the direct sound). normal? i left a space below it in my rack for ventilation, so i don't think it's overheating. finally, a couple questions about memory upgrading. parity or non? is 60ns preferable to 70? also, someone told me i should get "low-noise" chips for my echoplex. what the heck are low-noise simms? anyone know the "chip merchant" (www.thechipmerchant.com) part number? i will be forever indebted to anyone who bestows their knowledge upon me... james From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 10:30:37 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 03:37:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vifGm-0006lz-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:37:08 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 2 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 23:34:03 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"73554:1*"@MHS> Subject: Any Vortex's left at GC? Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FCNCQD.A.HSG.Kmi1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1607 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:37:08 -0800 X-UIDL: a40c7db3102d4ede37ab1c13b5626e12 I just found out I'm flying over to Mountain View in 2 weeks time, and a trip to Guitar Centre in San Jose will probably be on the cards. Does anyone know if GC is still selling Vortex's at $US150? Thanks in advance Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Fri Jan 10 10:30:48 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 09:40:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vikw7-0005KF-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:40:11 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 11:34:10 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9700108529.AA852924797@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: Any Vortex's left at GC? Resent-Message-ID: <"m7x62B.A.V4E.N6n1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1611 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:40:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 52c1fd8bcbf19d80280a777fd5782472 I guess the Guitar Center in Minneapolis sold their last one to a co-worker who sold it to someone else who already had one and wanted another and for more $$$. Some people. Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Any Vortex's left at GC? From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 1/10/97 5:33 AM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- I just found out I'm flying over to Mountain View in 2 weeks time, and a trip to Guitar Centre in San Jose will probably be on the cards. Does anyone know if GC is still selling Vortex's at $US150? Thanks in advance Dave Mitchell Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Fri, 10 Jan 97 05:33:30 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA24526 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:44:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vifGS-0006kw-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:36:48 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 2 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 23:34:03 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"73554:1*"@MHS> Subject: Any Vortex's left at GC? Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FCNCQD.A.HSG.Kmi1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1607 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:36:48 -0800 From ???@??? Sat Jan 11 04:13:02 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 13:09:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vioD5-0002ux-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:09:55 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness In-Reply-To: <199701101723.JAA25470@scv3.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"APElHB.A.7WC.z6q1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1612 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:09:55 -0800 X-UIDL: f0c1bd22dc3f375a59bec80476fd6034 On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, T.W. Hartnett wrote: > Also, earlier I'd reported flickering LED's at power up. This stopped > after about two weeks. Someone else on the list had reported the same > thing, so if it happens to you, give it a few weeks to burn in, or > something. That was me. Never noticed it again after the initial month or so. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jan 11 04:13:03 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 13:11:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vioEo-00032H-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:11:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:41:31 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness In-Reply-To: <199701101248.EAA23121@dsp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FBiMrB.A.NiC.d9q1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1613 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:11:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 433c8897dc87bc329c535fae29375e10 On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, James Reynolds wrote: > if there's a FAQ that answers my > questions, i would appreciate it if someone would direct me to it. There's an Echoplex FAQ at the web site that contains just about every bug or oddity that's been raised by users. Don't remember the exact URL, but http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html will get you to within a stone's throw (check under the Echoplex entry in the "Tools of the trade" spot). --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jan 11 04:13:08 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 13:29:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vioVx-00045y-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:29:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:59:14 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Footpedals page: Es good, jah Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7SGbhD.A.kjD.FOr1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1614 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:29:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 6d5dc262592118796f6b6ef20fa9b3f3 Hey all -- I took a glance at Kim's recent footpedals page for the Echoplex, and would highly recommend any EDP users to investigate it. It seems like I'm always learning about certain applications that the thing is set up to do that I wasn't even aware of (particularly in terms of how the thing can interface with outside sounds, both via MIDI and otherwise), probably owing to the highly obtuse nature of the infamous owner's manual. The pedals page covers a lot of options and functions that hardly (if ever) seem to be mentioned. Anyway, even if you're not too into footpedals (as I am not), do check it out when you get the chance. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jan 11 04:13:10 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 10 16:58:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0virlq-0000wq-00; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:58:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:51:42 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970110193033_712826927@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hard Disc Recording Resent-Message-ID: <"XoD5-C.A.Ri.eRu1y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1615 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:58:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 6fc69fdb61ce9221e6a8d7501b8948fb Just thought I'd add to the recent posts concerning hard disc recording. My recording system consists of an Akai DR4d and a Pawer Mac 6400/180. All recording is done on the Akai then SCSI'd to the Mac as an SDII file via MOTU'S Wave Edit program that was designed specifically for the DR4d. What Wave Edit lets you do is view graphically, what was recorded on the DR4d, on your computer and do all your editing (Fades, optimization,cut,paste, etc.) on the computer while the audio stays on the DR4d. After editing you can save the final song as an SDII file and arcive your work on your computers hard drive (or a zip drive etc). From here you can download back to the DR4d or go tape. I prefer to load the file back to the Akai (via SCSI) and go to tape from there since the audio conections on the Akai are better than on this particular Mac model. On the Mac itself I'm running Digidesign Session software. The only thing I use Sessions for is for working on sound files (EQ'ing, adjusting levels/balance etc.) that are going to remain on the computer, such as Quick Time movies or video soundtracks. I should mention that I don't generally do any cutting/pasting and "building" of songs due to the fact that I'm a Chapman Stick player and am pig headed about being able to play and record all parts live with both hands and Jamman. (As an example, I wouldn't play a two handed bass line then go back and record an overlapping melody part.) Unfortunately a lot of stuff never gets to tape because of this :-). Also, I should mention that a good idea for anybody getting into direct to disc audio recording should be to invest in a good disc de-fragmentation program and, on a Mac, to rebuild the "dest top" on a regular basis. The more editing you do of audio the more imperative both of these become. This post wasn't meant to "plug" any particular products but just to describe my particular set up and way of using the tools I use. I hope it added to the topic.--Paul From ???@??? Sat Jan 11 16:12:17 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 11 16:12:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjDXi-0002Dz-00; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:12:54 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:06:06 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Resent-Message-ID: <"xcAA6B.A.FlB.UuC2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1616 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:12:54 -0800 X-UIDL: e71442442eed82498d241e2a0edd079a At 4:48 AM 1/10/97, James Reynolds wrote: >hi all, i'm new to the list, and just got my echoplex the other day (i've >been using a jamperson for a while). it's quite keen, but i'm experiencing >some weirdness with it, and i was wondering if anyone could tell me if it's >normal or if i got a bad unit (i'm tired of bonding with the answering >machine at oberheim tech support). if there's a FAQ that answers my >questions, i would appreciate it if someone would direct me to it. Hi James, There is a FAQ, which Andre helpfully compiled, on the web site. That and various other plex info is accessible through the Echoplex section of the site, which is part of the Looping Tools section. The echoplex page url is: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echoplex.html and the FAQ is: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html >does anyone else's plex produce unpleasant clicks and pops when reversing a >loop? the more i reverse and re-reverse, the more clicks get added to the >signal. The current software does that on occasion. It bothers some people a lot more than others, and I think there is some hardware dependancy where some units are simply worse than others. I never had a chance to figure out why. It is fixed in the software upgrade, which is steadily moving towards being available, at about the same rate that Los Angeles is moving towards Alaska. (well, maybe a little quicker actually....) > >also, my unit seems inordinately noisy, even with a healthy signal level >(the playback is much noisier than the direct sound). normal? i left a >space below it in my rack for ventilation, so i don't think it's overheating. This could depend heavily on how you set your signal levels. Make sure the input is up enough so that your loudest signals are just shy of clipping the digital audio in the loop. You should get something greater than 85dB signal/noise ratio in that case. The plex is generally not very noisy, so if you still hear a lot it could be a hardware problem. But as with any processing device, especially since the loop is all digital, there will be some noise. These questions are sort of hard to answer, because it depends a lot on the listener, their equipment, and their general impression of what "noisy" is. Are you the sort that uses it with a typical guitar rack set-up, or do you use Neve consoles and high-end Genelecs? If you hear lots of noise in a guitar amp, there might be something wrong. On high-end equipment, you might notice a higher noise floor in the loop audio than in the direct path. This is hard to avoid, since the dynamic range of the direct analog path is much greater than that of the digital loop path. The digital audio parts in the Echoplex are about 4 years old now, too, so they would seem noisier in comparison with equipment made with parts available now. That being said, I know plenty of people using echoplexes with good studio equipment who aren't experiencing any problems. Experiment with your level settings some and see if you can get better results. >finally, a couple questions about memory upgrading. parity or non? is 60ns >preferable to 70? also, someone told me i should get "low-noise" chips for >my echoplex. what the heck are low-noise simms? anyone know the "chip >merchant" (www.thechipmerchant.com) part number? Either parity or non-parity works fine. Any speed grade you find available today will work. The spec for the memory is 120ns, and I haven't seen anything that slow in years. 70ns will be cheaper than 60ns. In fact, some places still sell the 80ns types which are cheaper still. LLB's current add in MacWeek has 80ns, 4MB, 30 pin SIMMs at $29 each. These will work fine. There is such a thing as "low-noise" simms. The owner of a simm manufacturing company in L.A. called Custom Services explained this to me in great detail, actually. (He wanted to sell me his simms for the plex, obviously. I think he sells to other music industry companies and stores like Manny's) Basically, the simms have a full ground plane and liberal use of bypass capacitors, and they cost more. The cheap ones don't do this. The "low noise" variety will emit far less high frequency rf noise from all the digital switching going on. So the question is, does this matter? The noise will be outside of the audio frequency band for sure, so you shouldn't be able to hear anything. Measurements I did to compare different simms didn't show any significant difference, as I recall. As any audiophile will tell you, however, test equipment does not necessarily represent what your ears can detect. And it is possible for audio circuits to modulate high frequency signals into the audio range. (Have you ever heard a guitar amp picking up a CB radio? That's what's happening.) I think it is unlikely that the simms would cause anything like that in the Echoplex. I was never able to hear any difference, so I think you can get garden variety simms and be just fine. If you are real particular about audio quality and want to be absolutely safe, and don't mind the extra expense which may be for nothing, by all means seek out the "low noise" kind and use them. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 02:38:33 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 11 19:44:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjGqp-0000S2-00; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:44:51 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:41:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199701120341.TAA20313@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Resent-Message-ID: <"2C_UyC.A.1J.x2F2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1619 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:44:51 -0800 X-UIDL: fac28a5402182a97060b9c1fc8ddc16e hi kim et al, >>does anyone else's plex produce unpleasant clicks and pops when reversing a >>loop? the more i reverse and re-reverse, the more clicks get added to the >>signal. > >The current software does that on occasion. It bothers some people a lot >more than others, and I think there is some hardware dependancy where some >units are simply worse than others. i think you're right about the hardware dependency. in the FAQ (or maybe it was the digest) someone mentions this problem as happening "occasionally". but with my unit it happens every time. i use a lot of textural loops, so the clicks really stand out. i'm glad to hear it's fixed in the upgrade, though. >>also, my unit seems inordinately noisy, even with a healthy signal level >>(the playback is much noisier than the direct sound). normal? i left a >>space below it in my rack for ventilation, so i don't think it's overheating. > >This could depend heavily on how you set your signal levels. Make sure the >input is up enough so that your loudest signals are just shy of clipping >the digital audio in the loop. You should get something greater than 85dB >signal/noise ratio in that case. ... >On high-end equipment, you might notice a >higher noise floor in the loop audio than in the direct path. This is hard >to avoid, since the dynamic range of the direct analog path is much greater >than that of the digital loop path. i played with my plex some more and i think you're right about the signal levels. the problem is i like to make loops with widely varying dynamic ranges. but when i keep the signal at the point where the orange light is usually on (tricky to do without clipping), it sounds much better. furthermore, the noise i was talking about is kind of a buzzy digital overtone that occurs on an input signal is present, probably due to the inherent dynamic range of digital audio. >places still sell the 80ns types which are cheaper still. LLB's current add >in MacWeek has 80ns, 4MB, 30 pin SIMMs at $29 each. These will work fine. > from the URL i mentioned (www.thechipmerchant.com) i ordered four of the 60ns 4MB SIMMS for 29 bucks each. the price was actually the same for the 70ns. also, thanks for the input on "low-noise" simms - i think with my fairly complex signal path, which produces a certain amount of its own noise, any benefits from fancy-schmancy simms would not be noticeable. one more newbie question: will the legendary "upgrade" be just a rom chip that can be bought at a store and user-installed? or is there some kind of magical ceremony that must be performed by a qualified tech/priest? thanks for the help, kim! james From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 02:38:34 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 11 19:51:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjGxD-0001Kh-00; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:51:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:48:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199701120348.TAA20386@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: e-plex sample dump: rate conversion? Resent-Message-ID: <"sCAmTC.A.O_.58F2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1620 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:51:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 93b682cb212429fc038e5672794794f0 Hi all, Considering the fact that the plex samples at 41 khz, it seems to me that if you were to dump a loop into a hard-disk recording system (thereby avoiding the noise of an analog transfer), you would need to do a sample rate conversion to the standard 44.1 khz for printing a CD. Has anyone done this, and are the artifacts produced by the conversion noticeable? In this kind of situation, would it make more sense to transfer the samples analog? Thanks, James From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 02:38:31 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 11 19:43:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjGps-0000Jz-00; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:43:52 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:47:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Resent-Message-ID: <"l0LUBB.A.1PH.I1F2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1617 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:43:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 1d2b4378ffbe0a4451fdb314f47680a6 >On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, T.W. Hartnett wrote: > >> Also, earlier I'd reported flickering LED's at power up. This stopped >> after about two weeks. Someone else on the list had reported the same >> thing, so if it happens to you, give it a few weeks to burn in, or >> something. > >That was me. Never noticed it again after the initial month or so. > See, we are really creative :-) In the original design of the LOOP delay there was a spare key (because originally Multiply was a long Overdub!) and we called it SURPRISE and intended to give it a different function every version or even individually. Things like a bass drum sample a total mix up of the loop... but then the machine slowly became more serious... Matthias From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 02:38:30 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 11 19:43:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjGpr-0000Jv-00; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:43:51 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:47:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Introduction... Resent-Message-ID: <"kx4bSB.A.RTH.f1F2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1618 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:43:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 50b72029c531909f24b1a2d307b7d010 Welcome, uncle! Thats fun. Here in Bahia, it is usual, that anyone calls any known or unknown person the way he just feels. So kids call me "tio" (uncle), I call the waiter "master", a girl "beauty", the leader calls his musician "my king" and mothers call their doughter "mother" and you are even allowed to call a fat man "fat man". Its really marvelous. There are also people that simply call everbody "father" and "mother" and do not remember names. >Echoplex I bought recently (actually spending an unbelievable $1000 for >an used unit!) has been like the holy grail for Sir Lancelot. Is it that rare in Europe?! >I've been playing with a Roland SDE-3000 in 2x mode (well, 6" of >very-low-quality delay). Dazzling. Thats how I started, it '85. "Playmate" they called the taping function on it, but it takes a while to establishes the delayed sound. By then the rhythm is gone... Hope to hear more about looping italians... matthias From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 02:38:41 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 12 01:38:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjMNK-0004YW-00; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:38:46 -0800 Date: 12 Jan 97 04:33:25 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Italian loopers Message-ID: <970112093324_100041.247_JHB62-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"HEsKqB.A.dxD.IBL2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1621 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:38:46 -0800 X-UIDL: ab1c1c15086e3fee6a7bf10462a4f525 Matthias says, > Hope to hear more about looping italians... Fripp always had quite a lot of fans especially in Italy, and I think his music got a number of Italian musicians interested in looping. I had the privilege to participate in two wonderful Guitar Craft courses in Italy, and I met several Italian musicians there who use loops in their music. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 23:14:03 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 12 16:48:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjaa3-0003dx-00; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:48:51 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:19:25 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness In-Reply-To: <199701120341.TAA20313@dsp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Xf3awB.A.kGD.ZXY2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1623 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:48:51 -0800 X-UIDL: fe5ddacd7760ae26d63b7e216ddbdad9 On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, James Reynolds wrote: > furthermore, the noise i was talking about is kind of a buzzy digital > overtone that occurs on an input signal is present, probably due to the > inherent dynamic range of digital audio. I noticed this problem about three months ago, when I thought that my Echoplex had been damaged due to its rack falling off a chair. I was noticing a great deal of extra noise (or "aliasing") and I also noticed that signals would drop out if they fell below a certain input level. After much panic and a near nervous breakdown, I was informed via this list that the noise problem was due to the input level being too low, and the dropouts were attributable to an internal noise gate which is used in conjunctions with the UNDO feature. The input level is a bit sensitive, and it can be tricky to find an ideal single setting that feeds the input sufficient level without crossing over into occasional clipping. Kim posted a hardware mod detailing how to upgrade the input circuit; I think it's in the Echoplex FAQ on the web site. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 23:14:01 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 12 16:37:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjaOa-00023W-00; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:37:00 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: David Trenkel X-Sender: improv@kira To: "A.S.P." cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: building our own looper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"79Pb7D.A.WSB.6JY2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1622 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:37:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 1766050d7bb627fb4e78b654f82ac651 On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, A.S.P. wrote: > > Hello Loopheads, > > I've been lurking on this list for a couple of weeks and am enjoying it > quite a bit. > > The reason I got on the list is because I'm seriously contemplating > getting an Oberheim Echoplex. I recently finished building my first > modular synthesizer. I bought an Emax II sampler to complement it, but > I'm finding that non-realtime instruments less and less attractive. One > thing I'm trying to figure out is if the Echoplex would be redundant, > because I use an analogue sequencer to drive the modular, which in essence > is an "analogue" of a tape loop. Do any of you use loop delays with > synths and sequencers? > I do, in fact for the last few days I've been using 4 looping delays in a synth setup (JamMan, LXP-5, Vortex AND Echoplex, but the 'plex is borrowed and will be going away in a few days), and I think that the loopers integrate well. The synths are mostly elderly analogs, + a Roland MC303. I can think of several good reasons to use a looper along with an analog sequencer. One thing I love to do is set up an interesting sequence, loop it into the JamMan, then change the tempo of the original sequence by a bpm or 2, against the loop still playing at the original tempo, with the 2 moving in and out of phase with each other. Instant Steve Reich! In fact, I had a couple of loops like this that I left running for 2 days recently. It took something like 6 hours for the downbeats to coincide. This isn't really something you could pull off live, I doubt most audiences have that kind of patience, but it can be pretty interesting in a hardcore minimalist sense. Also, on a more practical level, I could see using the looper to expand the polyphony of your synth. Set up a pattern on the sequencer, loop it, then use the sequencer to develop new material against the loop. You could probably even use the looper as another oscillator in the modular system, sending loops into filters, modulators, whatever. Actually, I'm starting to get really jealous of the possibilities you'd have with a modular synth and a looper.... Have fun! From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 23:14:15 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 12 19:34:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjd9y-0004Mn-00; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:34:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9AC7C.393C@ccnet.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:32:03 -0800 From: Roland Eberle X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jam Man Memory expansion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"STaUGD.A.yAE.fza2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1624 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:34:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 75cbb3de29024b2a9af344142be32c4a Hello all... I've just found the loopers page (thanks Kim...way cool) and subscribed to this list. Last week I came across a used (demo actually) jam man in a local music store and half jokingly offered the store manager $150 for it... I was prepared to pay upwards to $250-maybe $275 as I have wanted a looping device for about 8 mos now...(was inspired by a concert by Pierre Bensusan who used an Oberheim Echoplex...) I was flabbergasted when the guy said OK...everything appears intact- no manual,but the power supply, "ring tip" footswitch and a stereo cable were all included. No warranty, no box and ,again, no manual...but...YES baby! I was quite happy to find what I consider a real bargain. Anyway...I called Lexicon and they are sending me a manual (12 bucks including shipping...SHEESH!) Here's my question... I understand from numerous references that the jam man is expandable to 32 seconds...who can tell me what type of chips this requires...can it be done by a novice (I've built a few computers from components I've acquired on the cheap, so..I guess as long as it's as simple as plugging in SIMMS chips I could handle it...) I live in the S.F. Bay area so I would imagine the chips are readily available (unless its some funky older technolgy I've never heard of) in my area...how much should I expect to spend? Are they regular 30 or 72 pin Simms? etc etc.. any response will be greatly appreciated...thanks in advance. Roland Eberle roland@ccnet..com From ???@??? Sun Jan 12 23:14:16 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 12 20:43:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjeFT-0007Tx-00; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:43:51 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:47:24 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Italian loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"PTtOBC.A.54G.ozb2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1625 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:43:51 -0800 X-UIDL: a95bb98cfc4f9fcd40f333a7ae9be479 >Matthias says, > >> Hope to hear more about looping italians... Michael, full of good will: >Fripp always had quite a lot of fans especially in Italy, and I think his music >got a number of Italian musicians interested in looping. I had the privilege to >participate in two wonderful Guitar Craft courses in Italy, and I met several >Italian musicians there who use loops in their music. Me, never satisfied: FrippFrippFripp... how about italian folclore loops? Long time ago we used to call italian electric music "amore rock". Lots of dramatic tenors, with a long and strong tradition from the opera... Then I listened to Banco and Premiata Fornaria Marconi and another keyboard trio and then some jazzrock with the Rusticis... Later I fell in love with Zuccero... ... ah, and Pino Daniele is a client of PARADIS, but not for looping, I think, only the AVALONs, whereof there are more in Italy than in the rest of the world... .... but I do not really know what goes on in Italy. There must be a lot of instrumental virtuoso? Mattthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 10:12:29 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 05:00:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjlzj-0006y7-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:00:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9EC18.4B36@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:02:32 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aLCasB.A.ueG.XGj2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1630 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:00:07 -0800 X-UIDL: b1f345eb8281fea893218ec76c9ae5d2 > The input level is a bit sensitive, and it can be tricky to find an ideal > single setting that feeds the input sufficient level without crossing over > into occasional clipping. Kim posted a hardware mod detailing how to > upgrade the input circuit; I think it's in the Echoplex FAQ on the web > site. Have any of you guys tried running a compressor before your looper? The MXR Dynacomp has served me well for a long time, as has my Behringer Composer noise gate/compressor. The Composer (which I bought for about $225 new) is a really nice unit. It sounds (when properly set) fairly transparent. Trevor From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 01:02:21 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 00:31:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjhnf-0000q1-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:31:23 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:27:27 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: e-plex sample dump: rate conversion? Resent-Message-ID: <"SDzjsB.A.Du.PKf2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1627 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:31:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 39b202255a4c54ef95bd011b0b98bc4b >Hi all, > >Considering the fact that the plex samples at 41 khz, it seems to me that if >you were to dump a loop into a hard-disk recording system (thereby avoiding >the noise of an analog transfer), you would need to do a sample rate >conversion to the standard 44.1 khz for printing a CD. yes, that's right. >Has anyone done >this, and are the artifacts produced by the conversion noticeable? Artifacts would depend on the sample rate convertor. I don't know anything about what's on the market for that, anyone know what's good? >In this >kind of situation, would it make more sense to transfer the samples analog? It would certainly be faster than midi sample dump! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 00:27:39 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 12 23:57:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjhH8-0007cK-00; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:57:46 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:02:52 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: LOOP delay at NAMM! Resent-Message-ID: <"yvLnSB.A.DFH.5qe2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1626 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:57:46 -0800 X-UIDL: a3e3514ee748e8224c99bd8b315173a3 Sorry for my silly post about Italy. I have neither right nor reason to escape such moods into a nice group. I was out of my mind. But what really moved me, I should tell you: I just happend to know that Kuno Wagner (kuno.tap@t-online.de) will demonstrate Warr Guitar (http://www.warrguitars.com/warr) on a LOOP delay he is using for about three years! Isn't that nice? :-) Kuno Wagner happens to be one of the musicians that sent me a tape when I made the CD proposual to the LOOP delay users. Really nice Chapman Stick traveling. There is also a AVALON / Marimba piece by Andre Krikula and Conny Sommer and a flamenco piece by Renato Rizzo, both could be characterized as virtuoso playing with discrete dynamic loop suport. So the conicidence is that on fryday, I sent these pieces on CDR to Kim to show them to you NAMM visitors and I wanted to suggest that we add them to the Loopers Delight CD which does not seem to be full yet :-) . I will offer a copy of that CD to them then. Now you can see the man live! Happy again Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 10:12:02 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 01:42:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjiuX-0002sF-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:42:33 -0800 Date: 13 Jan 97 04:36:53 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Italian loopers Message-ID: <970113093652_100041.247_JHB67-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"b9MlaB.A.mmC.-Lg2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1628 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:42:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 39e74df952f6b28718e6343af2d3a8a7 Matthias : > Then I listened to Banco and Premiata Fornaria Marconi and another keyboard > trio and then some jazzrock with the Rusticis... yes, lots of interesting stuff there ... I also loved Premiata Fornaria Marconi - they used to work with Pete Sinfield and were clearly influenced by early Crimson ... ah, but that was in another time, in another life, 1973 when I had long hair and funny looking shirts... :-) Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 10:12:03 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 02:38:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjjmJ-0004FP-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:38:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:36:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199701131036.CAA00729@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: Jam Man Memory expansion Resent-Message-ID: <"RWg1kD.A.a7D.NBh2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1629 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:38:07 -0800 X-UIDL: abb993554979e7aa0d7e3adc393e20a5 hi roland, >I understand from numerous references that the jam man is expandable to >32 seconds...who can tell me what type of chips this requires... unfortunately the jamperson uses ZIP ics, not SIMMs. it's older, rarer, more expensive technology. you can get the whole 32 sec worth (4 megs) from lexicon for an inflated $140, or you can try to find them from a chip dealer for probably about $100. they are user-installable, just open the box, pull out the old, and put in the new. hold the chips firmly so you don't bend the leads as you insert them, it's a tight fit. the manual says not to rock the ICs, but you'll probably need to rock them a little bit to get them to move. The manual says to use four 1M x 4 bit ZIP ICs, and lists the following compatible chips: motorola MCM54400AZ hitachi HM514400AZP nec D424400AZP fujitsu MB814400 mitsubishi M5M44400L micron MT4C4001JZ before performing the upgrade, the manual suggests disconnecting the jam man from its power supply. interestingly, it doesn't have any warnings against performing the upgrade underwater... good luck! james From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 22:36:08 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 12:34:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjt5Y-0007Q2-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:34:36 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:35:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: building our own looper Resent-Message-ID: <"0Ui7yD.A.-fG.nsp2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1631 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:34:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 1e43020bb17d1382b376135085b7c3fb Dave Mitchell said >I'd like to see PAiA or a similar company (small, cheap, mailorder, >do-it-yourself-kits) come out with a looper. I do not think its simple enough >biggest impediment to me buying a Jamman, Echoplex or Boomerang is $$$ - I >just can't justify the cost for a single-purpose effect that I wouldn't be >using a lot of the time. For now, I'll stick to my crappy old Boss PS-2 >pedal with its 2 seconds of delay. Better not call it an "effect", because it does not alter sound, but record it. It can turn into your main tool, even replace a multitrack machine - at least be much more important that any effect ever could be... ...the problem is that you do not know until you use one for some time! >As an aside: with >memory coming down in price so fast recently, I can't see why you'd need to >feel limited by sample resolution or sample time any more - just build in >provision for the box to take standard SIMMs up to (say) 64Mb. true. This will also fascilitate to build sufficiant memory into a effect box, so it can have additional loop functions. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 22:36:09 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 12:35:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjt5w-0007SB-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:35:00 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:35:42 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: looper vs sequencer Resent-Message-ID: <"nt4GLC.A.hgG.rsp2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1632 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:35:00 -0800 X-UIDL: dfb70af809a7f007e872b40626ec66ec Romeo said: > I'm trying to figure out is if the Echoplex would be redundant, >because I use an analogue sequencer to drive the modular, which in essence >is an "analogue" of a tape loop. Do any of you use loop delays with >synths and sequencers? I made some of my best music with a keyboard player, both playing into a t.c. 2290. Not redundant! The differences to a sequencer are - Feedback, which you can use to change clima slowly and have old things soft in the background. - Overdub, that lets you layer infinitally. Especially interesting with a modular, where you can take your time to create sounds and keep layering them. Simple case: repeat the same phrase to thicken it! - the feel is somehow more played and less machine (?). - There are other functions a sequencer does not have (easily accessible). Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 22:36:10 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 12:36:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjt7Z-0007bX-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:36:41 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:37:13 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: RE: Italian loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"mig41C.A.DrG.Rup2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1633 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:36:41 -0800 X-UIDL: ed08c831b976c6460ebd0d0769524b11 >Matthias : >> Then I listened to Banco and Premiata Fornaria Marconi and another keyboard >> trio and then some jazzrock with the Rusticis... > >yes, lots of interesting stuff there ... >I also loved Premiata Fornaria Marconi - they used to work with Pete Sinfield >and were clearly influenced by early Crimson ... ... and Robert Fripp, you mean... :-) >ah, but that was in another >time, in another life, 1973 when I had long hair and funny looking >shirts... :-) I still have long hair and coloured shirts, that might be the problem... ;-) But I did not get stuck then, there just have been some movements I did not acompany - because I was working hard ;-) And now I would like to catch up and learn about what is going on. And here is not a very good place for this :-( Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 13 22:36:12 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 13 12:37:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vjt8D-0007eQ-00; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:37:21 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:37:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Resent-Message-ID: <"yziV-D.A.8tG.nup2y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1634 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:37:21 -0800 X-UIDL: ed23b8a98db0e0eea3cd402b9748fe00 >> The input level is a bit sensitive, and it can be tricky to find an ideal >> single setting that feeds the input sufficient level without crossing over >> into occasional clipping. Kim posted a hardware mod detailing how to >> upgrade the input circuit; I think it's in the Echoplex FAQ on the web >> site. > >Have any of you guys tried running a compressor before your looper? The MXR >Dynacomp has served me well for a long time, as has my Behringer Composer >noise >gate/compressor. > >The Composer (which I bought for about $225 new) is a really nice unit. >It sounds (when >properly set) fairly transparent. This is a smart solution, because outstanding peaks usually do not sound well in the loop anyway. Thats why we built that limiter in, but Kim screwed it up ;-) when he improved the noise. It still works, but it does not limit treble peaks properly. With avarage sound, it should be ok. Just try and overload the plex a bit to see! From ???@??? Tue Jan 14 08:11:19 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 14 02:46:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vk6Nw-0006MD-00; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:46:28 -0800 Message-Id: <17382.199701141041@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:41:23 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Zoom 8080: The shape of things to come.... Resent-Message-ID: <"nHPpYD.A.R1F.VL22y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1635 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:46:28 -0800 X-UIDL: ca912d0ad092a9d53d0b68995d74cd3c I don't think anyone's posted this yet, so... Has anyone checked out the Zoom 8080? It supposedly has 4 SECONDS of built-in delay, plus one of the footswitches is dedicated to tap/hold functions - ie it looks like a 4-sec looper on board. If that function takes off, maybe the next generation of processos will all have loopers built in - certainly it's not difficult to see the 9090/GT6/RP20 or whatever having 8 or more seconds. Looping for the masses? soon they'll all be at it, and we'll be just foices in the crowd.... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Tue Jan 14 23:08:29 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 14 08:36:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkBqi-0002Ca-00; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:36:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:32:58 -0500 (EST) From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <970114110400_1791607363@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Meeting of Loopfolk @ NAMM Resent-Message-ID: <"We9ZlB.A.75B.7V72y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1636 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:36:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 2a4f195a8a0a6b2330aeaf84fe2ae0fe Greetings There will be an informal meeting of SoCal Looper's Delight subscribers (and other musical malcontents) at the NAMM show in Anaheim this coming Saturday at noon at the Seymour Duncan Booth (#4331). Kim, Andre, Joe and I are already agreed to meeting there. If any of the rest of you can make it please feel free to join in. Ted Killian From ???@??? Tue Jan 14 23:08:56 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 14 16:04:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkIqZ-0000yA-00; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:04:51 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:56:09 -0500 (EST) From: Texture444@aol.com Message-ID: <970114185413_781383890@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: loopers meet @namm Resent-Message-ID: <"oXVhj.A.ik.P4B3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1637 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:04:51 -0800 X-UIDL: aefeac10807cd05145caed3c4b0c3281 a hale & hearty "hey!", o loopiest of folk! i'm loathe to admit that i've been so lurky, but: twixt family, life, music & travel, i've been crazed w/busy-ness: at the moment, i'm looping in japan w/ryuichi sakamoto: (me, rs & dj spooky are acting as "soloists" in front of rs' 70-piece multi-mediafied orchestra: all the concerts are internet-cast: check the sakamoto website, if ya wanna.....) wish i could get together w/y'all at this namm shindig! andre: i hope i didn't cut yer hose w/my letter; i just felt a wee bit misunderstood, there; never having been an idolater of bobby fripp, every once in a while i get tired of hearing his name being *equated* w/the art of looping, ya dig? s'pose it's a tad "small" of me, but..... s'all for now, david torn From ???@??? Tue Jan 14 23:08:59 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 14 16:17:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkJ2P-0001vs-00; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:17:05 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701150014.QAA12249@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: loopers meet @namm To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:14:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <970114185413_781383890@emout16.mail.aol.com> from "Texture444@aol.com" at Jan 14, 97 06:56:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mNYcy.A.yoB.AGC3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1638 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:17:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 47ef2ed2a33f249f5218627fd8cc8eab > at the moment, i'm looping in japan w/ryuichi sakamoto: (me, rs & dj spooky > are acting as "soloists" in front of rs' 70-piece multi-mediafied orchestra: > all the concerts are internet-cast: check the sakamoto website, if ya > wanna.....) Anyone have the URL for this? Thanks, Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jan 14 23:09:01 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 14 18:03:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkKgv-0001Yp-00; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:03:01 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:06:29 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: loopers meet @namm Resent-Message-ID: <"SV089.A.ZVB.XpD3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1639 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:03:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 133e654d4ee12687bdc74da9f3ff5f09 where is the sakamoto site david paul >a hale & hearty "hey!", o loopiest of folk! >i'm loathe to admit that i've been so lurky, but: >twixt family, life, music & travel, i've been crazed w/busy-ness: > >at the moment, i'm looping in japan w/ryuichi sakamoto: (me, rs & dj spooky >are acting as "soloists" in front of rs' 70-piece multi-mediafied orchestra: >all the concerts are internet-cast: check the sakamoto website, if ya >wanna.....) > >wish i could get together w/y'all at this namm shindig! > >andre: i hope i didn't cut yer hose w/my letter; i just felt a wee bit >misunderstood, there; never having been an idolater of bobby fripp, every >once in a while i get tired of hearing his name being *equated* w/the art of >looping, ya dig? s'pose it's a tad "small" of me, but..... > >s'all for now, >david torn From ???@??? Wed Jan 15 03:26:47 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 14 23:43:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkQ0F-0004AS-00; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:43:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:41:13 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: loopers meet @namm In-Reply-To: <970114185413_781383890@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RNjSqB.A.v0D.LpI3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1640 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:43:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 79d7cd91913fd2a349e7402018d4d8b7 On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 Texture444@aol.com wrote: > wish i could get together w/y'all at this namm shindig! We'll be thinking of ye, have no fear. > andre: i hope i didn't cut yer hose w/my letter; Not to worry -- my hose is still very much intact. 8-{} > i just felt a wee bit > misunderstood, there; never having been an idolater of bobby fripp, every > once in a while i get tired of hearing his name being *equated* w/the art of > looping, ya dig? s'pose it's a tad "small" of me, but..... I can see your point; there are plenty of people like myself whose introduction to looping came primarily via Fripp's work, so there's a bit of a tendency to think that looping as a serious improvisational form began with _No Pussyfooting_ and the live application thereof with the _Exposure_ "non-tour;" I've been guilty of this sort of thinking myself. Thanks to this list, I'm becoming more and more aware of the history behind the art form all the time. Thanks for de-lurking to give us all the word! See y'all, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:32:53 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 07:37:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkXPN-0002bD-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:37:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199701151536.HAA49958@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Sakamoto site Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 09:37:18 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"jRW92D.A.gUC.RlP3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1642 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:37:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 5462ecace3e0c88ea535b2dc93c8f2fb I believe the Sakamoto site is: http://www.kab.com/m/siteskmt/ Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Wed Jan 15 03:26:56 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 03:14:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkTIz-0002rs-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 03:14:53 -0800 Message-Id: <12280.199701151112@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:12:48 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: loopers meet @namm Resent-Message-ID: <"jN4Na.A.mmC.kuL3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1641 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 03:14:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 51fd684393f1afe626a5081e38c9d07a David: >at the moment, i'm looping in japan w/ryuichi sakamoto: (me, rs & dj spooky >are acting as "soloists" in front of rs' 70-piece multi-mediafied orchestra: >all the concerts are internet-cast: check the sakamoto website, if ya >wanna.....) Nice work if you can get it... :) >andre: i hope i didn't cut yer hose w/my letter; i just felt a wee bit >misunderstood, there; never having been an idolater of bobby fripp, every >once in a while i get tired of hearing his name being *equated* w/the art of >looping, ya dig? s'pose it's a tad "small" of me, but..... The problem here is that Fripp has produced a lot of live looping material, ie "here's a looper and a bunch of FX and a guitar, and here's what you can do with them in your own home/ at the pub/etc." So it becomes a standard because it's what most of the people on this list do. For example, I gather WMS,T is de/reconstructed loops - something that most of us aren't really in a position to do, so it's difficult to take as a benchmark. Now if a live, solo DT album were to be released (SUBTLE HINT HERE, DAVID) then it would be something that related to us more as "live" loopers. A recent debate in these virtual pages talked about going "beyond Fripp", but only in the sense that his looping methodology is the one we're all familiar with. "Bobby" Fripp. Heh heh heh... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:33:02 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 08:57:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkYeS-0006Yp-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:57:24 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:53:59 -0500 (EST) From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <970115115309_38543828@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #6 Resent-Message-ID: <"2ZV2kB.A.DBG.nvQ3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1643 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:57:24 -0800 X-UIDL: cfbb807bae5b1b2e4ab1b1f6bb9cf2f4 Hi - I just wanted to drop a note to the list that I got a Guitar Center "Inventory Clearance" flyer in the mail yesterday, and in small print way at the bottom of one page is a listing of GC Southern California locations blowing out the Lex JamMan at $199. I don't recall which off the top of my head but I remember Fountain Valley, Brea and San Marcos but not Hollywood or Sherman Oaks Ken R From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:33:08 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 10:16:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkZsq-0004GL-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:16:20 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: Torn article ie beyond Fripp Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:12:51 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 42 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"HLeccC.A.4yD.a5R3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1644 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:16:20 -0800 X-UIDL: f5bf312dc52d16ce0c7ab089ca034d95 >>andre: i hope i didn't cut yer hose w/my letter; i just felt a wee bit >>misunderstood, there; never having been an idolater of bobby fripp, every >>once in a while i get tired of hearing his name being *equated* w/the art of >>looping, ya dig? s'pose it's a tad "small" of me, but..... >The problem here is that Fripp has produced a lot of live looping material, >ie "here's a looper and a bunch of FX and a guitar, and here's what you can >do with them in your own home/ at the pub/etc." So it becomes a standard >because it's what most of the people on this list do. For example, I >gather WMS,T is de/reconstructed loops - something that most of us aren't >really in a position to do, so it's difficult to take as a benchmark. Now >if a live, solo DT album were to be released (SUBTLE HINT HERE, DAVID) then >it would be something that related to us more as "live" loopers. A recent >debate in these virtual pages talked about going "beyond Fripp", but only >in the sense that his looping methodology is the one we're all familiar >with. >"Bobby" Fripp. Heh heh heh... >Michael Sept 96 issue of Guitar player has David Torn revealing his secrets for looping for those of you wishing to go "Beyond Fripp". I very inspiring article. Unfortunately they put the "Space Rock" article on the web instead of the Torn article, so'll you have to visit your library or borrow a friend's mag. see below for issue details: http://www.enews.com/magazines/guitar_player/archive/960901-001-toc.html If this has already been mentioned, sorry but I've only been on the list a month or so see ya John From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:33:31 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 13:06:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkcXN-0007YR-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:06:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:00:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: Torn article ie beyond Fripp Resent-Message-ID: <"MHcm6C.A.EwG.RWU3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1645 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:06:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 9e625dae750df7ec2749033454d9037a John said: >Sept 96 issue of Guitar player has David Torn revealing his secrets for >looping for those of you wishing to go "Beyond Fripp". I very inspiring >article. > >Unfortunately they put the "Space Rock" article on the web instead of >the Torn article, so'll you have to visit your library or borrow a friend's >mag. You can find said article on the Torn Web page. And the URL is.... http://ott22.engin.umich.edu/torn/writings/in-the-loop.html Hope that helps!! Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:33:58 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 17:39:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkgnd-0002N4-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:39:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:35:55 -0500 (EST) From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <970115203009_1891661939@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sakamoto site Resent-Message-ID: <"VMxxwC.A.CFC.6YY3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1646 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:39:25 -0800 X-UIDL: fc261c65c2ced78b1b155f849f3f63c8 thanks Travis!... best, Robby From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:33:59 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 17:44:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkgs9-0002hH-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:44:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:41:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199701160141.RAA00886@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: loopers meet @namm Resent-Message-ID: <"_0BchD.A.hZC.vdY3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1647 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:44:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 43b80efaa8121c9fafe4e72e4ad696b9 David Torn wrote: >at the moment, i'm looping in japan w/ryuichi sakamoto: (me, rs & dj spooky >are acting as "soloists" in front of rs' 70-piece multi-mediafied orchestra: >all the concerts are internet-cast: check the sakamoto website, if ya >wanna.....) wow, that's going to be an amazing show. everyone here already knows how spiff david is, but anyone who hasn't checked out dj spooky, go buy "songs of a dead dreamer" right now. groovy urban-ambient type stuff ("illbient"), very inspirational for us loopers. how does he get those sounds??? james From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:34:01 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 17:52:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkh0M-0003Fy-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:52:34 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701160149.RAA20474@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: loopers meet @namm To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:49:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199701160141.RAA00886@dsp.net> from "James Reynolds" at Jan 15, 97 05:41:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JrGx8C.A.a2C.7kY3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1648 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:52:34 -0800 X-UIDL: fd57ca8f1f703a91b9aa9c9277c8bba6 > everyone here already knows how spiff david is, but anyone who hasn't > checked out dj spooky, go buy "songs of a dead dreamer" right now. groovy > urban-ambient type stuff ("illbient"), very inspirational for us loopers. > how does he get those sounds??? > > james Thanks to this list, I heard about dj spooky and Meat Beat Manifesto and bought their CDs. I too found their works to be inspirational. I don't see myself spinning records but I feel I can learn a lot from listening to them. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:34:08 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 15 18:40:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkhkI-00066D-00; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:40:02 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:02:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: loopers meet @namm Resent-Message-ID: <"xoCvaB.A.DkF.CSZ3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1649 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:40:02 -0800 X-UIDL: ed286216061e7d1a2a8741fb51c0f666 >David Torn wrote: >>at the moment, i'm looping in japan w/ryuichi sakamoto: (me, rs & dj spooky >>are acting as "soloists" in front of rs' 70-piece multi-mediafied orchestra: >>all the concerts are internet-cast: check the sakamoto website, if ya >>wanna.....) > >wow, that's going to be an amazing show. > No doubt. Why doesn't this kind of thing happen in the US? >everyone here already knows how spiff david is, but anyone who hasn't >checked out dj spooky, go buy "songs of a dead dreamer" right now. groovy >urban-ambient type stuff ("illbient"), very inspirational for us loopers. >how does he get those sounds??? > Well, when I saw him perform it was just with 2 turntables, a CD player and a DJ mixer that evidently had a delay/looper built in. And a lot of really cool records, of course. I heard a sample I recognized but couldn't quite identify, so I paid attention when he took it off the turntable, recognised the Deutch Gramaphone label, it was Stockhausen's "Gesang der Jungeling". Also noticed bits of Satie and Prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn on the Dead Dreamer record, the guy definitely knows something about music. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:34:27 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 06:48:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkt7Z-00034M-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 06:48:49 -0800 Posted-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:46:07 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:17:08 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra@dimensional.com (Robert Phelps) Subject: Fripp Resent-Message-ID: <"zBiRaD.A.jwC.28j3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1652 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 06:48:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 42dd03db86ebe20a404ef46ba3180e46 Just thought y'all might be interested that Robert Fripp himself posted on the Elephant Talk forum last week in response to widespread "interest" in his work etc. and apparently reads the posts regularly. Perhaps he would be open to engaging himself in the "beyond Fripp" thread I've seen of late here. He may be unaware of the forum altogether. Be forwarned he is indeed quite "Frippian" in his responses however. Lurking and looping, B.P. From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:34:17 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 03:41:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkqCh-0005Xm-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 03:41:55 -0800 Message-Id: <8917.199701161140@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:40:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Torn article ie beyond Fripp Resent-Message-ID: <"GcLsaC.A.QIF.aOh3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1650 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 03:41:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 62c9434243183772fa57a1b756be31f4 David Torn said: >>>andre: i hope i didn't cut yer hose w/my letter; i just felt a wee bit >>>misunderstood, there; never having been an idolater of bobby fripp, every >>>once in a while i get tired of hearing his name being *equated* w/the art of >>>looping, ya dig? I replied: >>The problem here is that Fripp has produced a lot of live looping material, >>ie "here's a looper and a bunch of FX and a guitar, and here's what you can >>do with them in your own home/ at the pub/etc." So it becomes a standard >>because it's what most of the people on this list do. For example, I >>gather WMS,T is de/reconstructed loops - something that most of us aren't >>really in a position to do, so it's difficult to take as a benchmark. Now >>if a live, solo DT album were to be released (SUBTLE HINT HERE, DAVID) then >>it would be something that related to us more as "live" loopers. A recent >>debate in these virtual pages talked about going "beyond Fripp", but only >>in the sense that his looping methodology is the one we're all familiar >>with. > John Ott added: >Sept 96 issue of Guitar player has David Torn revealing his secrets for >looping for those of you wishing to go "Beyond Fripp". I very inspiring >article. The question (and it's a good one) is "why are we all so wrapped up in Fripp"? It occurred to me after reading Loopers of the World on the Web page - about 80% of players list Fripp as an influence. Now, how many players here sound like RF when we play? C'mon. Be objective. I'm guessing the number's big. Jeez, I do (well, like RF with a bad hangover) and I spend most of my time trying _not_ to sound like him. DT: >>s'pose it's a tad "small" of me, but..... No, it's small of _us_. Looping far exceeds the boundaries of any given player. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:34:24 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 04:53:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkrKH-0007EK-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:53:49 -0800 Date: 16 Jan 97 07:48:17 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Torn article ie beyond Fripp Message-ID: <970116124816_74074.1316_GHQ47-5@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"N11BUD.A.1sG.cRi3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1651 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:53:49 -0800 X-UIDL: e94e39f38609b985c7a4bf45c3e382f9 Michael writes: >The question (and it's a good one) is "why are we all so wrapped up in >Fripp"? It occurred to me after reading Loopers of the World on the Web >page - about 80% of players list Fripp as an influence. Now, how many >players here sound like RF when we play? C'mon. Be objective. I'm >guessing the number's big. Jeez, I do (well, like RF with a bad hangover) >and I spend most of my time trying _not_ to sound like him. Which is why I have relegated my once beloved GR-300 to the duty of providing K/L (knobs and lights) amusement for my sons. I'll tell ya--it's really hard *not* to sound like Fripp when you play that thingy! Also, way back in the dark daze of'84 I started running a mix of synth and dry guitar through a fuzz box. Then, along comes "Gone to Earth" and there's Mr. Bobby doing the same damn thing. I was crushed--I really thought I'd found a new sound with the little blue guy. BTW---Nice of you to de-lurk Mr. David Torp. Later, JD From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:34:36 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 08:46:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vkuxA-0000wG-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:46:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:40:36 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Torn article ie beyond Fripp Resent-Message-ID: <"e_u6PD.A.ll.Mol3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1653 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:46:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 9325fd8803bd8223fa0df233cb4ff1ef >David Torn said: >> never having been an idolater of bobby fripp, every >>once in a while i get tired of hearing his name being *equated* w/the art of >>looping, ya dig? neato says: this brings up a point, i've been meaning to address...(sorry if it's been covered before, but i'm new here) -the use of the loop has been around well in advance of robert fripp....in fact his actual frippertronics system is based directly on that of minimalist composer-terry riley...riley had been experimenting with tape loops since the early 60's (and in turn influenced other 60's loopers like daevid allen and hugh hopper of soft machine)...this evolved into his use of the two reel to reel tape delay system which he used for all night keyboard performances...(documented on the double record set-persian surgery dervishes-1972) furthermore, i recall reading an interview with riley where he was amused that fripp had essentially taken his (riley's) system and named it (frippertronics) after himself! -the point being, as torn points out, is that looping can be approached from a myriad of places and not just through robert fripp...influential as he may well be! (myself included!) cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:03 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 16:42:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl2OB-00038H-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:42:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32DE846D.6019@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:41:33 +0000 From: Trevor Bajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: trying to get beyond Fripp References: <199701161834_MC1-E81-EB08@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QA3QNB.A.-jC.Wns3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1655 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:42:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 3c10ee6514cc1eab5397b7c0675d796b > In fact, most mainstream guitarists sound so much like other mainstream > guitarists that they are all hard to tell apart, but then this is taken for > granted and doesn't feel like a problem - this is what you do if you play > mainstream rock after all, you *want* to sound like mainstream. > > Our problem is that Fripp's style is so unique and so easy to recognize - > every young guitarist who loves his playing, and internalizes some of it, > will very likely "sound like Fripp" to some extent. In my youth I had > no problem with that because it was so exotic that few people recognized my > playing as Fripp influenced. Today it's different - sometimes I hate it > because it feels so silly. What's the point of sounding like somebody else > after all? But it's so hard to stop falling into these habits and to find > one's own unique playing style - to be so original that noone instantly > comes and says, "hey, that sounds just like Bill Frisell". This has got to be one of the most over-quoted aphorisms in the known universe, but it is one of those onions of wisdom that keeps being revealed to again and again: Good artists are influenced by their heros, but great artists steal from them (or something to that effect (Picasso I think?)). When I listen to any of the recordings I have made I can hear an evolution as time goes by, but I think that there are fundamentals that have never really changed from the first day that I started shronking out chords from my first tele (although I can tune it now.) This sensibilty has had my many influences grafted on to it, but when I listen to ambient stuff I've done, art-core stuff I've done, even my blues-ish stuff, I think (any MANY have disagreed with me) that I sound like the same guitarist. Every musician you have ever heard has influenced you, in one way or another, either positively or negatively. We have obviously have all heard a lot of Fripp's work. It has to have made some kind of impact. (Maybe I'm alone in this, but people have said to me that I sound a bit like Fripp at times, especially when I am ripping off Marc Ribot.) An original sound/style/whatever is a synthesis and recombination of thousands of elements- mine are people like Fripp, Neil Young, Thurston Moore, Lou Reed, Page Hamilton, and just about everything I have every heard on 4AD and Discord Records, not to mention Ornette Coleman, Marc Ribot, Charlie Parker,- but I have a fairly distinctive style. But you CAN hear my influences. One thing I can say with fair certainty is that if you hear a musician that sounds like no-one else, you haven't her/his record collection. I find it hard to believe that most of us here haven't been influenced by Fripp in some fundamental way. I have, and there is only one Crimson record that I can stomach listening to. I don't play any licks that haven't been played in some form or another somewhere else before. My style (and I would hypothisize most of yours too) comes from the way you combine your influences. Once I put a band wanted ad in the Voice saying my influences were Neil Young, Ornette Coleman and Sonic Youth. After seeing the ad in print I thought 'geez, I should have picked more diverse influences'. I don't know if I am making any sense here- I think I am trying to address too many thing at once after a day that has been too long. Sorry. > (Never whistle while you pee) Always good advice, this. Trevor From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 15:42:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl1Rl-0006ft-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:42:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:34:21 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: trying to get beyond Fripp To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701161834_MC1-E81-EB08@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"TpjK_.A.v0F.Ytr3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1654 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:42:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 80cec105a26d3d799b1c3635b88853c7 Michael Pycraft Hughes: > how many players here sound like RF when we play? C'mon. Be objective. I'm > guessing the number's big. Jeez, I do (well, like RF with a bad hangover) > and I spend most of my time trying _not_ to sound like him. Thanks for saying this. It really feels good to hear that others have this problem too. :) We should start a Frippers Anonymous group! In fact, most mainstream guitarists sound so much like other mainstream guitarists that they are all hard to tell apart, but then this is taken for granted and doesn't feel like a problem - this is what you do if you play mainstream rock after all, you *want* to sound like mainstream. Our problem is that Fripp's style is so unique and so easy to recognize - every young guitarist who loves his playing, and internalizes some of it, will very likely "sound like Fripp" to some extent. In my youth I had no problem with that because it was so exotic that few people recognized my playing as Fripp influenced. Today it's different - sometimes I hate it because it feels so silly. What's the point of sounding like somebody else after all? But it's so hard to stop falling into these habits and to find one's own unique playing style - to be so original that noone instantly comes and says, "hey, that sounds just like Bill Frisell". David Torn's "stop playing like other guitarists" hangs on my wall as a reminder. I hope it will help. Michael Peters private: mpeters@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never whistle while you pee) From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:05 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 17:34:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl3Bu-00073P-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:33:58 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:27:04 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Trying to get beyond Fripp? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XjRpAD.A.SOG.xXt3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1656 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:33:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 766eb03f660362b1bfed2855e2114b81 Try this: Stop listening to Fripp and check out a very very different area of music. That sounds (and reads) a lot more harsh than it's really intended, but I've always found that the best way to let an influence assimilate into my collective unconscious, rather than sound like the musical equivalent of a bad photocopy, is to get what I can from someone's work and then go someplace very different. Focusing one's creative interests in a more opposite sort of direction seems to facilitate any previous influences' settling into their proper place in the psychic cue. On a related note, I saw at the NAMM show today (thanks Ted!!!) a couple of huge posters of Fripp and Belew in the Fernandes booth, both of them being advertised as Sustanior (is that what it's called?) endorsers. I tried the sustainer, and what do you know -- very Frippish. So the moral of today's lesson: If you already sound more like Fripp than you want to, don't buy a Fernandes! --Andre P.S. - See the home studio feature on David Torn in the current (Metallica cover) issue of _Musician_. From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 17:37:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl3Em-0007Ho-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:36:56 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:31:19 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: The Memory Man is back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5R3Q1D.A.PlG.vbt3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1657 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:36:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 473354d6226520872ff23ee23acd6fef I'm not overly familiar with the Electro Harmonix Memory Man pedal, but I understand it to be similar to an Echoplex (the original stuff, not the Oberheim bit) in design and function, with added pitch-modulation features. Apparently the thing has been reissued, with a price of (I *think*) about $200, and is in stores as we speak. (Er, type). --Andre P.S. -- Stopped by the Gibson wing at NAMM. There were acres and acres of Les Pauls and SG's, a handful of Steinbergers tucked off to the side, and a tiny little Oberheim display. The good news is that they did actually have an Echoplex and a footpedal there, although everyone's attention was geared towards an organ module. ('Scuze my ignorance in these matters.) From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:07 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 17:40:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl3IX-0007cm-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:40:49 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:34:47 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: One other bit of Frippery Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bc9BCC.A.12G.Bft3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1658 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:40:49 -0800 X-UIDL: b1b10e948272417eaf5cfa2a59a9af6d In light of RF's ongoing presence in the list, you might get a kick out of this excerpt of a post he made to the Crimson list: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Jan 97 05:16:45 EST Subject: From Robert Fripp Monday, 13th. January 1997. Dear Team, 1. Harvey Keitel and Kevin Spacey should play Fripp in "King Crimson: The Movie", in alternating scenes. Who cares if anyone's confused? 2. Stop arguing about Fripp's attitude towards you, etc., and acknowledge he's the greatest guitarist in the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If nothing else, the man has a sense of humor which utterly redefines all previously held notions of deadpan. Off to listen to anything *but* Fripp, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:21 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 21:52:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl7EN-0006Q7-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:52:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:51:03 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: One other bit of Frippery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qwY0-.A.x3F.tMx3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1659 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:52:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 961a8f454fcb3df740c2d0f0a98d5273 it's purely frippian to see someone speaking in the third person about themself... what a guy! i wouldn't have thought of Harvey Keitel, though. of course, he played the best 'tough guy' jesus i've seen. :) **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:23 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 21:54:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl7GE-0006Xr-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:54:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:52:34 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: One other bit of Frippery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GySdRB.A.29F.IOx3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1660 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:54:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b1ff24d9ea48e0b19044d902c1c9511 er.... sorry.... that was JUDAS. ah, those biblical figures! (what are they to a college student more interested in oscillated delays on flanger voices on a sunday morn?) **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:35:27 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 16 23:25:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vl8gX-00032m-00; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:25:57 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:22:59 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Trying to get beyond Fripp? To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701170223_MC2-F8A-CA7B@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"Z6OXhC.A.gwC.kky3y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1661 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:25:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 75206e977de94f05a343888b33327d93 Andre: >Try this: Stop listening to Fripp and check out a very very different area >of music. That sounds (and reads) a lot more harsh than it's really >intended, but I've always found that the best way to let an influence >assimilate into my collective unconscious, rather than sound like the >musical equivalent of a bad photocopy, is to get what I can from someone's >work and then go someplace very different. yeah, you're probably right. > So the moralof today's lesson: If you already sound more like Fripp > than you want to, don't buy a Fernandes! I've already got one. I've been using it for 2 years and it's a wonderful device. You can do things with it that Fripp hasn't done yet! Michael Peters private: mpeters@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never whistle while you pee) From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:36:27 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 17 12:04:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlKWk-0004df-00; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:04:38 -0800 From: sarajanes@mdcs.com (Sarajanes) Subject: the great Beyond..... Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:42:49 GMT Message-Id: <853522969@mdcs.com> Organization: Micro Data Computer Systems To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Jt4tED.A.ptD.il93y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1664 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:04:38 -0800 X-UIDL: d0a2e34685dc4b92233f7abb479269ac Greetings oh looped ones, The implied notion in several of the recent posts on the "beynd Fripp" subject, is that somehow his body of work is progressing in a errant fashion or that he has an unjustly high level of stylistic influence on the "unlurked" who populate this group. Unfortunately for me this sounds all to much like what I call "Battle of the Bands" mindset. The notion that anyone's work in this medium has any more viability than anothers is rampant bullshit, the likes of which does nothing to promote either the genre as a whole or our individual musical endevours. Besides which it should be obvious that Fripp draws these remarks as a direct result of his achieving a greater degree of critical and (relative) market success than most if not all of the other players working with this technology. John Tesh could take up looping... that would certainly require a major widening of the mental corridors that seem a tad constricted to this looper(especially if he met with rabid success and was heralded as the "true innovator" of this medium) ears reached does not equate with minds entered. Very Sincerely, Bryan Helm From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:36:28 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 17 12:08:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlKaY-000511-00; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:08:34 -0800 From: sarajanes@mdcs.com (Sarajanes) Subject: the great Beyond..... Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:42:49 GMT Message-Id: <853527597@mdcs.com> Organization: Micro Data Computer Systems To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Ujz0n.A.muD.rl93y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1665 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:08:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 6222b1463814840ca5573e28e5989574 Greetings oh looped ones, The implied notion in several of the recent posts on the "beynd Fripp" subject, is that somehow his body of work is progressing in a errant fashion or that he has an unjustly high level of stylistic influence on the "unlurked" who populate this group. Unfortunately for me this sounds all to much like what I call "Battle of the Bands" mindset. The notion that anyone's work in this medium has any more viability than anothers is rampant bullshit, the likes of which does nothing to promote either the genre as a whole or our individual musical endeavours. Besides which it should be obvious that Fripp draws these remarks as a direct result of his achieving a greater degree of critical and (relative) market success than most if not all of the other players working with this technology. John Tesh could take up looping... that would certainly require a major widening of the mental corridors that seem a tad constricted to this looper(especially if he met with rabid success and was heralded as the "true innovator" of this medium). Ears reached does not always equate with minds entered, for players and audiences, and those who find themselves,by necessity, being both. Very Sincerely, Bryan Helm From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:36:22 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 17 11:44:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlKDU-00030e-00; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:44:44 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:31:28 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: The Memory Man is back Resent-Message-ID: <"3TzAL.A.luB.qN93y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1662 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:44:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 85e2a1bbae1cb7e707d40f66ca0a32a1 Andre wrote: >I'm not overly familiar with the Electro Harmonix Memory Man pedal, but I >understand it to be similar to an Echoplex (the original stuff, not the >Oberheim bit) in design and function, with added pitch-modulation >features. Apparently the thing has been reissued, with a price of (I >*think*) about $200, and is in stores as we speak. (Er, type). > I have an old Memory-Man...I'm not familiar with the original Echoplex, so I can't comment on the comparison, but the Memory-Man is a pretty warm sounding delay, with a max delay time of about a half second. It sounds great when you tweak the delay time while playing -- you get a real smooth pitch shift. Also the chorus mode sounds really rich, and has a stereo output which sounds great. The reissue is the Memory Man Deluxe (5 knobs, instead of 3), which also has vibrato. As a side note, I am selling my Memory-Man if anyone is interested (for $125). I really like the effect, but there is a slight coloration of the sound, even in bypass mode (it doesn't use a true bypass switch). If anyone is interested, drop me a note. On this note, is anyone familiar with an analog delay which is full-bandwidth and has a true bypass switch? - Chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:36:24 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 17 11:51:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlKJr-0003Vd-00; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:51:19 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:44:52 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The Memory Man is back In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cNbmhB.A.H5C.qb93y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1663 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:51:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 27302b04552c1b2f59547bf41c9a8a75 On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, The Man Himself wrote: > I'm not overly familiar with the Electro Harmonix Memory Man pedal, but I > understand it to be similar to an Echoplex (the original stuff, not the > Oberheim bit) in design and function, with added pitch-modulation > features. Apparently the thing has been reissued, with a price of (I > *think*) about $200, and is in stores as we speak. (Er, type). > > --Andre Hello, Are you talking about the Electro Harmonix 16 second delay pedal? I've never heard of the memory man. How long is the max delay time? If it is the 16 second delay pedal $200 is a great price. I have been using one (on loan) and have had very good results with creating loops. I also have the manual to 16 second delay, when I have time I'll copy it and sent it to the Looper's Delight page. Doug Michael From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:02 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 17 18:49:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlQqp-00034y-00; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:49:47 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:47:17 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The Memory Man is back Resent-Message-ID: <"Oxmkt.A.RwC.9mD4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1666 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:49:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 1ba15c2c6a83e91d984d23ea67d995a5 >>> --Andre wrote: >> I'm not overly familiar with the Electro Harmonix Memory Man pedal, but I >> understand it to be similar to an Echoplex (the original stuff, not the >> Oberheim bit) in design and function, neato says: actually the electro-harmonix has very little similarity to the original echoplex...the original echoplex were all tape echo's...and the early models were tube designs...the memory man was one of the first analog foot type delay pedals (the mxr green box being another)..incidentally , there were a number of different memory man models like economy, deluxe,deluxe with chorus etc etc >> Doug Michael wrote: > Are you talking about the Electro Harmonix 16 second delay pedal? I've >never heard of the memory man. neato says: no, the electro harmonix 16 second delay came out much later than the memory man...it was initially advertised as "fripp in a box"...it was the first single unit looper...later some ingenius folk began tweaking some lexicon digital delays for increased delay time...then came jamman..the rest is history.... cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:11 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 18 04:53:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlaHE-0001st-00; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:53:40 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:50:31 -0500 (EST) From: Texture444@aol.com Message-ID: <970118075030_374681082@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: beyond:what, or whom? re-sent: faulty slip.net Resent-Message-ID: <"X7MUwD.A.9qB.bdM4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1667 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:53:40 -0800 X-UIDL: c3f2d5f0f4fe57e489d0bde3c8763dae dear folks, to begin: please pardon the appearance, here, of any over-simplistic descension into dime-store philosophy. but: anyway: in my too-limited dialogue w/the creative musical community, particularly w/the phylum of a)guitarists & b)loopists, i continue to strive to encourage *all of us* to bypass (or, even: go beyond) what bryan helm pithily describes as a >>battle of the bands mentality<<. whatever's currently-considered-to-be-'great art', systems-thinking & methods, fame & notoriety, ideological backdrops, the fade-to-black icons of popular culture: these things come & go, enter & vanish, shift & metamorphosize into: what? (i mean, cripes, one day yer life-as-you-know-it goes, na?!), so. even the subtlest & most mesmerising of gauzy worldly veils conceals something. imho (& in my own experience), music- at its essence- formlessly- (!formlessly!: ephemerally: unfixedly)- embodies human potential for transformative experience, for solace & psycho-spiritual delineation on this fascinating, fleet & stunning earthly plane. in such light, it's possible for one to consider one's attempts @ >>going beyond fripp<< as something other than merely a more "intellectual" version of the "faster-louder-higher" or >>battle of the bands<< syndromes; it's possible to transform this "negative" energy of (oftimes, contained) competition into a vital force with which to fuel one's abilities to receive & transmit soundwaves that benefit oneself & one's listeners: broadening the bandwidth, allowing the fragile, fracturing shell of ego-centrism to meld gracefully w/the entire remaining pantheon of innumerable internal beings/symbols, & step down: at least, for a minute: from its surreptitiously usurped throne. what was i talking about? oh yeah: fripp, or whomever, as symbol: as benchmark. is it "wrong" to emulate (thereby, learning from) yer heroes? methinks, no!, not at all: but it can be extremely self-deluding/unhealthy to continuously ape their actions to the degree that music's transformative potential is *obviated*, is temporarily lost to you: serving witness to pop-culture's propensity for the denial of the most basic kind of self-realisation: & exhibiting an unfortunate lack of both compassion & respect for yer own evolution and, ultimately, that of yer hero's, to boot. as loopists, maybe we're presented w/a different slant on music, via these unique (but, still-infantile!) set of tools: the loop like a mirror, the development of the act of reflection being always "in potens", the group of accompanying musicians: our own internal orchestras of symbols, and further: driven towards ritual ecstacy both uniquely personal &, at once, communal in nature: "see the artist play w/her just-discovered-self, ma!": et cetera. so: for me, 2 focal questions slither their snaky way into view: what seems more critical to me: queries for a more personal perusal: can we get beyond our *own* limitations in this chosen medium? even those limitations that seem fenced & barriered by what we (possibly: mistakenly) assume to be our heroes boundaries? can we aspire to something of more lasting value than feeding the harsh fecundity of a two-headed, two-dimensional societal beast with it's continual this-vs.-thatting? anyway. well. sorry if i blathered: i do that, now & again: i mean no harm. i promise i'll post w/something more concrete, sometime. best to all, david torn From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:13 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 18 09:52:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlewj-0006SJ-00; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:52:49 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:49:22 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: beyond:what, or whom? To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701181249_MC2-F91-27C3@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"QJi26.A.q6F.31Q4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1668 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:52:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 434c10f229e2e736b2731cdb2ac9205a David: > can we get beyond our *own* limitations in this chosen medium? even those > limitations that seem fenced & barriered by what we (possibly: mistakenly) > assume to be our heroes boundaries? > can we aspire to something of more lasting value than feeding the harsh > fecundity of a two-headed, two-dimensional societal beast with it's continual > this-vs.-thatting? Fully agreed. Thanks for pointing this out again - I really enjoy your way of putting it. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never whistle while you pee) From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:14 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 18 10:38:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlfeq-0001vA-00; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:38:24 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:34:45 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970118133443_913050474@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: beyond:what, or whom? re-sent: faulty slip.net Resent-Message-ID: <"V7s9i.A.4lB.PgR4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1669 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:38:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 146323b819087d3616335ba46cdceb22 Jeez, it's fun to hear a good blatherer blather...long live the 20-min solo! (uh...for some reason, I stopped listening to almost all prerecorded music about 5 years ago---happened around the same time as I discovered the "record" button on my stereo---so now I enjoy/respond-to other players primarily via their verbal utterances and channelings---with almost no idea what they're actually playing! High on my current list of most-entertaining guitar-talkers are both David Torn and RFripp. Others? Steve Vai's OK Buckethead's spotty, but occassionally snags a good tongue lick EVHalen (surprisingly good current interview in British mag "Guitar") Carlos Santana (the king of cosmic talk) ...actually, it's fascinating how many "known" players can talk inspired (non)sense. I guess interesting minds can't HELP combing usefully thru the constant oceanic blizzard of information our12 senses are perpetually blessed with. May they, and all of us, remain impelled to report our findings.) dpc From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:16 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 18 10:39:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlffU-0001yi-00; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:39:04 -0800 X-From_:73311.213@compuserve.com Sat Jan 18 10:38:58 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vlffM-0001so-00; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:38:56 -0800 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA02615; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:37:55 -0500 Old-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:37:31 -0500 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #7 To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199701181337_MC2-F91-57C1@compuserve.com> X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight-d-request Sender: SmartList Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:39:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 638db513b56a5cea670d7e23de048b12 Message text written by INTERNET:Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com >fact his actual frippertronics system is based directly on that of minimalist composer-terry riley.< Er, I believe it was "based" on the system that Brian Eno came over one day and *gave* to him. From what I've read, Eno and Riley quite independently of each other came up with similar systems around the same time. As much as a lot of us would like to point to any one person and say "No, THIS person was the one who REALLY started it", I agree with the wiser folks who have noted that looping is something that developed of its own accord, through quite a few different people and different methods, perhaps as a product of the musical and historical context. Just my 2c. jj From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:29 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 08:36:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vm0EB-00016b-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:36:15 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:28:53 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: about the problem of brotherhood Resent-Message-ID: <"wcCm1C.A.TW.jpk4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1672 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:36:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 19fbd171fe91f24aa465f05cf58fc254 >-- [ From: Sabine L. * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- For a little moment I felt lucky to have met the first female loopist. Where... Then I realized, it was Todd ho asked me privately: >I understand you developed the Oberheim Echoplex unit. I am currently using >it and need some help in finding a way to hook up two units, one for me and >one for my music partner and be able to control the overdub, multiply and >undo functions independently of each other with both machines syncronized >with each other. Either of the machines could set the initial record loop >time. That would be fine for my application. Try this: - Connect both machines BrotherSync with a stereo 1/4" cable. - Set both to Sync = Out - Do a record on one unit. The SYNC LED (green dot between the two MULTI digits) of the other unit should start blinking at each start of the brothers loop. Then the second unit can record. It will happen quantized, which means that the recording will only start and stop at the loop start of the first units - which forces it to be of the same (or a multiple) length. Due to the sample sync through the stereo cable, the two units will not run away from each other. In the beginning, this use of quantization only for syncing may confuse you: + It is switched on automatically with the first click that comes in. So you have to wait for that if you want to follow your brother. + Possible trouble is that the brother forgets to reset his unit after sound is faded and when you start the next loop, you are forced into the old timing again. -> ask the brother to please *&%# reset and then play again. + Similar trouble: If your brothers unit was reset after yours and you want to start the next trip, your unit will wait forever for sync coming and not start recording. -> reset your unit and start Record again (or is it enough to just press Record a second time? In the newer soft versions, a second press makes escape from the quantizing wait state and I do not remember about the "current" because I only used it for a month, over two years ago - what a weird world...) Do those confusions come from the stupidity of the machine or of the user? Whenever the machine does not count with the stupidity of the user, I consider it stupid itself - and reverse. Usually it takes two unaware parties for an error to happen: it takes a *transmitter and a receiver* (on stage for example: an unfiltered light system *and* a sensitive sound system. In politics: a power abuser and a unconscious population). SAD: Usually the transmitter and the receiver start discussing about who is guilty instead of resolving the problem on both sides... Needless to say that we have a much better proposual for SyncRecord in the soon-to-be-released-all-too-famous-update (I could not stand to explain the trouble to each partner that came to loop with me ;-> ) : No quantization needed, and you decide on the spot whether you start with a synced or unsynced loop. In other words: Record will make you master and Multipy slave. You will experience how nice it is to be slave amongst brothers... - to be brother in any way! Any more trouble just tell me! Matthias PS You know what? It takes me two hours to write such a post, but I like doing it! From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:27 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 08:34:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vm0Cm-00010m-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:34:48 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:29:04 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: RE: Trying to get beyond Fripp? Resent-Message-ID: <"hUJmE.A.yU.Wpk4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1671 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:34:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 9edcbecf36ce44159e015092871661e3 >Andre: > >>Try this: Stop listening to Fripp and check out a very very different area >>of music. That sounds (and reads) a lot more harsh than it's really >>intended, but I've always found that the best way to let an influence >>assimilate into my collective unconscious, rather than sound like the >>musical equivalent of a bad photocopy, is to get what I can from someone's >>work and then go someplace very different. > >yeah, you're probably right. Well, since we all listened to a lot of music and have some basic technique and thus are stuffed with input, I would rather suggest to listen to *none but your own music* for a while (it was a year, in my case). It does not save you from going on with habits, and you may accept them as they stay for some reason, but you might stop *following* someones light and thus become more aware of your own. Either you get bored with yourself and stop playing (could that happen?) or you are forced to developp into your own direction. Since all in nature developps constantely... Faith - you get helped! Ok, it takes some isolation maybe. I did not go to concerts any more. I played every night and recorded it and then had a smoke and listened to it, looking for internal movement and relaxation, sometimes dancing alone. When I went out to see friends, I took the latest tapes with me and showed them, instead of listening to their music. After a year, noone could stand it any more: "could we please listen to some normal music?". But by then I had observed the reactions of mine and of listeners and was able to continue on stage. Once the process started, music from others does enrich it, but not stop it. Maybe I should live another phase like that - after the *&%# contract and upgrade is done and you all understood how all works... I definitally want to bring out my CD this year! >I've already got one. I've been using it for 2 years and it's a >wonderful device. You can do things with it that Fripp hasn't done yet! Look, one is going "beyond" soundwise! :-) Thanks, David, for your teaching about the evolution from "this-vs.-thatting". Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:17 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 18 14:53:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vljdY-0003sq-00; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:53:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32E25EBB.529B@erols.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:49:47 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: beyond:what, or whom? References: <970118075030_374681082@emout11.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3S9pB.A.pbD.iOV4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1670 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:53:20 -0800 X-UIDL: c7bade91fa3bfc431a54b2c12d823fe4 Wow, great, (:><:),... I'm a dime-store lover of wisdom too. So I'm compelled to try to answer David Torn's questions, and hopefully enrich his good words, with some rhetoric of my own, and ideas and advice that I've learned and sometimes taken from others. David Torn wrote, among other things: 1.> can we get beyond our *own* limitations in this chosen medium? even >those limitations that seem fenced & barriered by what we (possibly: >mistakenly) assume to be our heroes boundaries? Yeah, well, "just" choose to believe that the world is a work of art continually giving birth to itself, and that you are an artist, a creator in this world, an ACTIVE accomplice in this *ex nihilo* art/birth process. Also, take the PASSIVE, seemingly detached, approach to the world-as-work-of-art-continually-giving-birth-to-itself and stand back, in awed rapture, to absorb and reflect on the veiled mysteries which the world-as-work-of-art reveals to you as truths. Try your best to avoid making idols of the truths you find revealed or the folks who seem to be involved in transmitting those truths. But, get to know those folks; spend some mutually-agreed-upon time sitting at their feet, wrestling with 'em, and climbing up on their shoulders, for the view. Do the ACTIVE thing a lot more than the PASSIVE thing. In all this activity and passivity be ever on the lookout for opportunities to experience ecstacy *ekstasis*: to be taken out of your old self by the power of strangeness and beauty while you are becoming somehow new: transcending your situation, emerging into a new time and space with new possibilities for creation. 2.> can we aspire to something of more lasting value than feeding the >harsh fecundity of a two-headed, two-dimensional societal beast with >it's continual this-vs.-thatting? I think that David Torn is answering "yes" to question 2 in this piece: >it's possible for one to consider one's attempts @ >>going >beyond fripp<< as something other than merely a more "intellectual" >version of the "faster-louder-higher" or >>battle of the bands<< >syndromes; it's possible to transform this "negative" energy of >(oftimes, contained) competition into a vital force with which to fuel >one's abilities to receive & transmit soundwaves that benefit oneself & >one's listeners: broadening the bandwidth, allowing the fragile, >fracturing shell of ego-centrism to meld gracefully w/the entire >remaining pantheon of innumerable internal beings/symbols, & step down: >at least, for a minute: from its surreptitiously usurped throne. There's a creative impulse in the act of negation. But the this-vs.-thatting process (if I'm reading openly enough) joylessly lacks an ability to refer to and nurture this creative impulse so it ends up eating its own children; it really seems ego-hurtful. Imposing distinctions, making boundaries, drawing borderlines, and other negative acts are essential to furthering the world-as-work-of-art-continually-giving-birth-to-itself process. Something of value will always emerge from this negativity, but whatever it is, it may not last long. >(i mean, cripes, one day yer life-as-you-know-it goes, na?!) Thanks, (and requisite dime-store philospher apologies for my blathering) to David Torn, and the rest of the insightful risk-taking loopers. Preston From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:52 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 18:51:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vm9pO-000412-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:51:18 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:50:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: beyond:what, or whom? Resent-Message-ID: <"e461sB.A.SMD.Kwt4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1673 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:51:18 -0800 X-UIDL: d4832fc7ec75b36d34a0d667f94ba78c The Coffin spoke (what could DP mean?): >High on my current list of most-entertaining guitar-talkers are both David >Torn and RFripp. > >Steve Vai's OK >Buckethead's spotty, but occassionally snags a good tongue lick >EVHalen (surprisingly good current interview in British mag "Guitar") >Carlos Santana (the king of cosmic talk) Holdsworth certainly hold some speaches of worth. I am not so much interested any more in what he is saying, but the one that talked the clearest articulated to me is still old Jimy (remember Red House?). I am technician of a soft reggae-soul band around the lovely big black LAZZO. So when he asks a member of the band to solo (often, as a good leader he valorizes his musicians) he sais: "chora para mim" (cry for me) . May this come from the blues? Why is it easyer to cry than to laugh through the guitar? All the revolutionary complaints are accumulated in our habits of screaming distorted guitars, while light softly supporting sounds are left to flutes and harps (and the worst: synthesizers ) and the heart desires moving romantic sounds come from saxes (soprano for tenderness, tenor for sex). Well, I might exagerate a bit... So, all I am trying to say: There is "beyond" in musical language, expression, clarity, and there is another one (maybe rather "beside") in content. The first, probably is rather the players "work" (and the main intention of the list) while the second is what he transmits (probably from beyond). How to find that may be beyond the potential of this list, but interesting anyway. If a speaker has something really interesting to say, we listen to him, even if he is hard to understand, so "beside" may be more important than "beyond". There is a dangerous tendency against that: 2000 years ago, Cicero (?) told os how to speak nice enough so that people assimilate the content whatever it is. I do not think we should cultivate this for our music. >...actually, it's fascinating how many "known" players can talk inspired >(non)sense. I guess interesting minds can't HELP combing usefully thru the >constant oceanic blizzard of information our12 senses are perpetually blessed >with. May they, and all of us, remain impelled to report our findings.) Amen Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:50 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 18:50:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vm9oh-0003xz-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:50:35 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:50:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: slider for a vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"Ay8MKC.A.jMD.Lwt4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1674 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:50:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 6c52297d9c23af60b18fd35cae23cacf Would anyone bother for this brother of another list? >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:55:31 -0800 (PST) >From: Saul Stokes >To: synth-diy@horus.sara.nl >Subject: slider with a vortex >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-synth-diy@horus.sara.nl >Precedence: bulk > >Hi, awhile back I decided to build a slider controller for my Lexicon >Vortex. Last night I got it together and hooked it up but it doesn't seem >to control any of the Vortex's features. It does however work on my other >instruments. At first, I wasn't sure of the pinout on the slider and tried >different combinations to see if it would work. Now that I have it hooked >up the correct way (thanks to Ric) and it still doesn't work, I'm >beginning to think that maybe I fried something due to my experimenting. >I can't imagine this happening since it's just a slider and a stereo cord. >My question is could I have fried something by hooking the stereo wires >up every which way to the slider? Also does anybody use an expression >pedal on their Vortex? Do you have any problems with it? > >Ciao, >Saul >www.hypnos.com/stokes.htm > From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:37:53 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 18:51:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vm9q1-00045C-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:51:57 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:51:32 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: archiving Resent-Message-ID: <"2ncGJB.A.rSD.Hxt4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1675 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:51:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 8c7c03974687a55ee478e30fa01214ec Helow, newer list users! I wonder whether you are helped with our archive and whether its worth the effort for you to catch up with all that has been said? I think it is, because a lot of fundamental thinking happened when it was all new. I once started the condensed version to save you from diging through all the headers, repetitions and wild mix of different subjects, some of them even outdated. Does anyone apreciate it? It takes some time to do it (it took me 2-3 hours to do what there is). And there is a lot of newer good stuff to add to it. I thought that someone who is about to study the archive might be the right person to do this work because - he is going through the mails anyway and copy pasting is quick - he is one of those that profit from our initial work, so its fair What do you think? Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:38:06 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 22:05:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmCqp-0002mF-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:04:59 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:01:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701200601.BAA05406@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: slider & pedal for a vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"T7IV2D.A.5UC.4ow4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1677 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:04:59 -0800 X-UIDL: aba1125a3901d38698adb72e10a55927 >>My question is could I have fried something by hooking the stereo wires >>up every which way to the slider? Also does anybody use an expression >>pedal on their Vortex? Do you have any problems with it? >> >>Ciao, >>Saul >>www.hypnos.com/stokes.htm hi all ! i also wonder about my vortex/expression issue. I just got (one of the last) guitar center ones - no problems, it seems - tho' it arrived sans "footpedal" or booklet !! are the instructions on line somewhere ?? also - i have a roland EV-10 expression ped. - what do i have to do to set it up - other than plug it in ?? any settings?? BTW - there are some awesome sounds in this !! ripping phase/flange type sounds with the subtle morph, and i've barely tweaked it, which i've gleaned from previous posts is the door to insanity (in a good way!!) So - thanks for all the recommendations and explanations - it made me buy one and i'm real happy !! BTW - if you're in the Jersey are - i'll be part of a night of ambience and looping at the Brighton Bar in Longbranch, Thur Jan 30. Then Feb 8 at the Common Ground. Bon Lozaga is also there Feb 14... E me if you're interested/close by. andre (NJ) From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:38:09 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 23:58:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmEd5-0002lG-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:58:55 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:55:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701200755.XAA29755@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <970105003552_100041.247_JHB136-2@CompuServe.COM> Subject: how's the Looper's CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"FDkZeB.A.rXC.wUy4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1678 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:58:55 -0800 X-UIDL: ce85975293b97914bdbbba68a1bc01fd Michael Peters writes: >> Bring some tape prooves of loop works. We should try to finish >> the sampler CD till then. (shit, still did not manage to burn and send my >part!) > >how many looping pieces have been submitted yet? Enough to get going, or are >most people still working on their stuff? Sorry for the long delay in replying to this, folks. I was away on business, and then sitting in class for a week. I received 5 submissions. If you didn't send me anything and want to get in on the CD, email me. Basic deal: From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Much Vaunted CD Project Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:51:24 -0800 (PST) ToddM@LaserMaster.Com writes: >I suppose I'm the 40th person to ask: > >I have an appropriate tune - how should I send it? I don't have DAT. >Who do I send it to and what form is preferred (i.e. cassette with DBX, dolby C, B) >What kind of cash is being asked for to have my tune included? >Will I receive a CD-R in return with the tunes on it or what? OK, once again. Send by mail to me. DAT and $12 or cassette and $15, plus $12 for each additional CD, limit, um, 1. Address is: Ray Peck 24653 Summerhill Ave Los Altos, CA 94024 On cassettes I can handle dolby S, C, B or none. Somewhere in a box I have dbx, but the liklihood of my finding it is slim. You can also send me quarter track 7 1/2" IPS 7" reel if you want. Hell, at the radio station I can do half track, so if you've got nothing else, contact me. This is really pushing it, though. >What if the CD-R burner being used for the project explodes in an unforeseen >technical mishap? What if Roy explodes in an unforeseen mishap? Then I will be very upset, just having paid $1600 for it a few months ago. If I (*not* Roy, please) explode, your DATs will be the least of my worries. Send the thing with a SASE that will hold your CD(s) and tape, so I can just drop the thing in the mail. Clearly label the tape and the SASE. If you've got special editing or other needs (e.g., single-ended noise reduction or eq), contact me directly by email and we'll work something out. From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 10:06:14 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 07:34:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmLkM-0005Yd-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:34:54 -0800 Message-Id: <27563.199701201526@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:26:37 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: the great Beyond..... Resent-Message-ID: <"0fnzm.A.pvE.z644y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1679 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:34:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 658f54ad49e529ba707302cb5e27e6d8 Bryan: >The notion that anyone's work in this medium has >any more viability than anothers is rampant bullshit, the likes of which >does nothing to promote either the genre as a whole or our individual >musical endeavours. Besides which it should be obvious that Fripp draws >these remarks as a direct result of his achieving a greater degree of >critical and (relative) market success than most if not all of the other >players working with this technology. But that's it - he is more known to us. I'll tell you why I equate Fripp with Looping, it's because from age 16 and first getting into KC until about 2-3 years ago, as far as I was concerned looping was called "Frippertronics". Consequently, when I started looping I came at it from a "Now I can do all that cool stuff RF does!" So ya loop footswolen chords, noodle over the top of it and hey, this sounds like No Pussyfooting! I mean there's so many different ways to approach looping, but that always seems to be the popular one. Because he _is_ so popular. And as for going "beyond" Fripp, what I mean is that I'm trying to break out of the "ambient soundscape with noodling over the top" and try to approach the whole issue differently. Do you want to know who the original looper is? I mean he wasn't a looper in the contemporary sense, but boy did he write a peice that is crying out for someone here to do a loop version. Go listen to Pachelbel's "Canon" and tell me that's not a looper's peice if ever there was one. Andre: >> So the moral of today's lesson: If you already sound more like Fripp >> than you want to, don't buy a Fernandes! the other Michael: >I've already got one. I've been using it for 2 years and it's a >wonderful device. You can do things with it that Fripp hasn't done yet! Hey, just think! Robert Fripp could be sitting in a room somewhere, looking disparingly at his guitar and saying "but how can I go _beyond_ Michael Peters?" Finally, Andre recommended listening to completely different avenues of music in order to overcome copying other musicians. Matthias (got the tape yet?) went one step further in suggesting listening to _no_ other musicians. I'll go the whole hog and say _give up your instrument_! OK it's a bit extreme. My wife has been ill (CFS) for some time, and for about a year I just didn't have time to play. Coming back to it afterwards, I went straight into practicing music that was (a) completely different to my previous playing (ie rote licks) and (b) compositionally nearer to what I wanted to hear. I think that the only way I achieved a complete chance in style that I'd tried for before was by putting the beast down for a while, although it wasn't for the best of reasons. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 10:06:16 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 08:15:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmMNy-0000d8-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:15:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:11:23 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: slider & pedal for a vortex In-Reply-To: <199701200601.BAA05406@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Tscd7D.A.DO.6k54y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1680 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:15:50 -0800 X-UIDL: afa37a9e1c7b7475a5f2cbb96cbd5b0b I've built 3 different Vortex expression pedals so far. The first was from the guts of an unused Crybaby wah. It worked, but had a very bad sweep, probably due to an audio taper pot rather than linear taper. I built a second one out of a modified ADA expression pedal. It worked, but I couldn't get quite a full sweep out of it (not enough pedal travel). I also jury-rigged one out of a loose pot as an experiment. Should be easy enough to make one with a slider. Just get a linear taper slide pot and wire as described in the manual. If it doesn't work, you probably have a wire swapped somewhere. Switch around wires until it does work. Don't worry about cooking components... it's just a voltage divider. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 10:06:17 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 08:26:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmMYL-0001TI-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:26:33 -0800 X-Sender: ccohen@popmail.voicenet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:24:48 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ccohen@voicenet.com (Charles Cohen) Subject: Re: slider for a vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"9vzNOC.A.a_.Lu54y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1681 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:26:33 -0800 X-UIDL: e4358f6e24d8a435726e4698b7dcd5ca I use a Roland EV 5 with Vortex and it works fine, giving full 1 to 64 range. It seems to be wired up something like this: Main Pot: Bottom to......Connector Ring (5vdc reference from Vortex) Top to.........Top of Auxiliary pot and it's wiper (Range adjust) Wiper to.......Connector Tip (Vortex sense) Auxiliary Pot: Bottom to..Ground and Connector Sleeve (Vortex Ground) Main Pot seems to be aprox 10K ohm Aux Pot seems to be aprox 50K ohm cc **** **** What's Charles up to? **** **** http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 10:06:20 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 08:47:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmMs6-00039X-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:46:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:37:32 -0500 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: creative isolation To: Loopers-Delight Message-ID: <199701201137_MC1-F99-528D@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"3GXNC.A.ZVC.k-54y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1682 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:46:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 8a91379b95364147e3b6e20a6b86997d > I would rather suggest to listen to *none but your own music* for a while (it was a year, in my case). It does not save you from going on with habits, and you may accept them as they stay for some reason, but you might stop *following* someones light and thus become more aware of your own.< I've seriously followed this philosophy for awhile. I believed, when I first got into the recording business, that each musical "stage" I went through was a process of sloughing off my influences, one by one... and by continuing this process, and also by making every effort *not* to try to imitate any other musician in terms of technique or compositional style, I would eventually arrive at some sort of "pure" form of my own musical voice. As time wears on I become increasingly cynical about this, perhaps agreeing with Brian Eno that there is *no way* to be freed of one's influences, and thus the task at hand is not to find your own "pure voice", which I take it he does not believe to exist, but instead to come up with the most interesting and unique combinations of such influences... "Composting" he calls it. I routinely bounce back and forth between these two seeming opposites. I'm slowly coming to some kind of piece with *that* incongruity, too. Any thoughts on this? Am I just thinking too much? jj jj1@compuserve.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 10:06:21 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 08:50:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmMv3-0003Sh-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:50:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32E3A1E8.3E57@easyway.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:48:40 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: the great Beyond..... References: <27563.199701201526@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"chDdND.A.RlC.2B64y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1683 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:50:01 -0800 X-UIDL: cf183bd62910df91ca0e4e7f303dec87 Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > Do you want to know who the original looper is? I mean he wasn't a looper > in the contemporary sense, but boy did he write a peice that is crying out > for someone here to do a loop version. Go listen to Pachelbel's "Canon" > and tell me that's not a looper's peice if ever there was one. In a way, it's already been done, by Brian Eno, in 1978 on his Discreet Music LP. The piece is on the second side of the album. Definitely check it out. Jonathan From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 10:06:23 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 09:34:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmNcO-0007li-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:34:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:26:16 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: the great Beyond..... To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701201227_MC2-FA7-169F@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"KcUmh.A.OpG.as64y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1684 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:34:48 -0800 X-UIDL: b5da44a1c18ff579d52b91122bbe5757 Michael Pycraft Hughes says, > Do you want to know who the original looper is? I mean he wasn't a looper > in the contemporary sense, but boy did he write a peice that is crying out > for someone here to do a loop version. Go listen to Pachelbel's "Canon" > and tell me that's not a looper's peice if ever there was one. ha! someone already did a loop version - sort of - of this one: Brian Eno, on the B-side of "Discreet Music". > Hey, just think! Robert Fripp could be sitting in a room somewhere, > looking disparingly at his guitar and saying "but how can I go _beyond_ > Michael Peters?" I *really* like that ... yes, how can he? Don't know. Michael Peters private: mpeters@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never whistle while you pee) From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:49 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 16:45:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmUKq-0005E7-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:45:08 -0800 Posted-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:37:36 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:08:53 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra@dimensional.com (Robert Phelps) Subject: Glenn Gould Resent-Message-ID: <"RLoBhD.A.LKE.b_A5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1700 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:45:08 -0800 X-UIDL: e7b4bd21eb33580f6cab96ccc54a5de4 A quick question after a marvelously rich day on this list. Haven't digested all comments thoroughly enough to have one of my own, but a question has occurred to me again and again. As far as the topics of "creative isolation" and "technique and/vs. creativity" and even "practicing while driving" go, I'm really wondering how many out there is familiar with the writings and life of Glenn Gould??? I would think if not many would find his ideas facinating, fruitful, and food for much further thought on these topics. And as far as Fripp's or Eno's use of the studio as a compositional tool, Gould's thoughts on that predated their's by a decade. The coming technology was a fave topic of his and gosh knows what he might have had to say on the subject of looping. A good place to start would be " Glenn Gould Music and Mind by Geoffrey Payzant (PARTICULARLY chptrs 4&5),as well as The Glenn Gould Reader by Tim Page. (Last year's film 32 Short Films About Glenn Gould was a treat too, but an adaptation of sorts with attendant "entertainment value". I'd reccomend the books. He was of course coming from the "classical" world of thought and experience (A big "So What?" occurs in my head), but SO many of his thoughts seem to echo those out there on this list at times. Just thought I'd drop the hint. B.P. From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:22:00 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 17:21:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmUth-0001Cd-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:21:09 -0800 Posted-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:14:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:46:04 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra@dimensional.com (Robert Phelps) Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"ZtnyVC.A.fh.TiB5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1703 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:21:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c722c30f1a173e7d26891d0997ef7f9 A question occurs. The areas of "taking a break from listening" etc. have come up now and again (something I do myself) and I'm wondering if we're still being a bit too narrow in our thought. Can we find more or "better" (bad term) inspiration for our looping "dry spots" be had by turning our ears to "other" instruments (esp. other than guitar), and ALSO towards music that perhaps involves no looping at all? Not to merely "turn away", but to refresh the "other side of the coin" so to speak so that the "looping" side doesnt carry such a wearisome burden? The "two sides of a coin" scenario is itself perhaps drawing an unnecessary boundary/dichotomy, but perhaps you see the point. Another perhaps more important source of "inspiration" I'm just reminded of how damned "musical" certain novels I've read, people I've spoken to, or things that meandered into my visual field have been. As I grow older it is with these that I find inspiration for my composition, loops or otherwise, much more than I do with particular artists or recordings. Perhaps going "outside the loop" once in awhile so to speak can only help us fortify and enrich such tools.Thoughts? B.P. P.S.--One I suppose could have found much looping inspiration in the last presidential campaign rhetoric for example. Is such diverse inspiration perhaps passing us by every day and we just need to open up a bit more to it? Here's hoping so ! . From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:22:09 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 20:19:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmXgQ-0003G6-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:19:38 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:32:30 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Creative Isolation& Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"NqYM1B.A.fVC.HIE5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1707 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:19:38 -0800 X-UIDL: f5bb27696145c5ad4aba44485cb9baff Very stimulating thought 's today.......and I suspect that everyone is "right"...... Examining the creative spirit and how we reach it....or how the creative spirit reaches us, through us......is sort of like an ant examining an elephant.... We all have a glimpse.....seeing different pieces of the whole.......... Maybe.. Patrick :-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_- :-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_ Patrick Smith ..... Patrick@his.com .... ... .. . *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ Solaris Guitar Trio .. .. . .. .http://www.xdc.com/solaris/ ... .. . From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:05 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 13:01:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmQqe-0004gT-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:01:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:50:16 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: creative isolation In-Reply-To: <199701201137_MC1-F99-528D@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"p8c4yB.A.9uD.zu94y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1685 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:01:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e9530ee00831879a2510adb64486cd7 On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Jason N. Joseph wrote: > As time wears on I become increasingly cynical about this, perhaps > agreeing with Brian Eno that there is *no way* to be freed of one's > influences, and thus the task at hand is not to find your own "pure > voice", which I take it he does not believe to exist, but instead to > come up with the most interesting and unique combinations of such > influences... "Composting" he calls it. > > Any thoughts on this? A person's voice *is* the total of who they've listened to. Point to any musician and you'll be able to point towards a plethora of other influences as well. As far as I can tell, the people who are most often described as "unique" are the ones who are able to combine their influences into something unlike what's come before. (I also think it has something to do with a person's fundamental DNA, but that's another story...) Not unrecognizably different, mind you, but rather the sort of thing that makes the rest of us beat our heads against the proverbial wall and think, "Of *course*! It's so obvious now -- why didn't anyone think of that before?!?!" --Andre From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:12 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 13:35:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmRN8-0000S7-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:35:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199701202124.QAA27760@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:27:38 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"ZHL6R.A.qJH.QP-4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1687 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:35:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 9b168903ada7729ae8572174a97ddd89 >As time wears on I become increasingly cynical about this, perhaps >agreeing with Brian Eno that there is *no way* to be freed of one's >influences, and thus the task at hand is not to find your own "pure >voice" jj, I agree that it's simply not possible to be act as if you have never heard anything before. There are way too many assumptions that we've inherrited from previous musicians, whether we are conscious of them or not, from the establishment of equal temperament in the 17th century, to sonata form, to far more minute aquisitions of pitch and rhythm by public consciousness. Actually if you think about it, influences provide a necessary context by which you music will be heard. Even if you do the impossible and generate an entirely influence-less composition (perhaps you could simulate one randomly on a computer) your audience *is* likely to have heard other peices before, and will assign your piece a context you did not intend. This is very important. The best you could hope for is to attempt *full* awareness of your influences, to the extent that this is possible, in order to act against what you identify as your personal tendancies. Jim From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:13 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 13:38:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmRPw-0000mI-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:38:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:33:04 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: creative isolation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eZTVbD.A.XO.jS-4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1688 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:38:12 -0800 X-UIDL: a779b5577b6604d2dd0f96f73fe279cf On one hand, you cannot free yourself completely from your influences. On the other hand, you aren't just a puppet being waved by your record collection! There is room for both influence AND creativity. Otherwise, where would new musical ideas come from? The question isn't whether influences or creativity control your destiny. The question is, how do you control THEM? With influences, you can either broaden your horizons by exposing yourself to new and different arts (either music or otherwise... I believe my artistic vision is affected as much by film, literature, philosophy, and other arts as it is by music), or you can closely study one artist or genre, learning its secrets in intimate detail (Brian Eno often listens to only one album for weeks at a time. I've read favorite books or seen favorite movies dozens of times, each one a different experience). For creativity, you can try to do radical new things, or focus on improving your existing skills. Derek Bailey does not distinguish between practice and performance. Fripp has advised playing a single open string, even intervals against a metronome, for four hours a day for three months. Some bands live together and play constantly. The Velvet Underground never practiced except to learn songs, and would walk out on stage after not playing together for months (even more extreme, Last Exit played for the first time in front of an audience of 10,000, without ever practicing together as a unit). Many years ago, when I was first developing a working relationship with electric guitar, I was playing lead in a band driven more by creativity than skill. The bass player once told me that he thought I was bullshitting 90% of the time, but that the other 10% of the time I was channelling music from another world. He was right. When I was lucky, I was totally expressive, but most of the time, I was just fighting my lack of technique. Technique is an expressive tool. It is our only channel to release creativity. On the other hand, technique is a trap. It is altogether too easy to fall back on stock licks, and play from the hands instead of the heart. This balance between technique and creativity is constantly shifting throughout our musical lives. Sometimes I'm more creative, sometimes I'm more technique-driven. Sometimes I set the guitar down in disgust and won't play for weeks. When I come back, I may be brilliant, or I may be fighting to regain the lost muscle memory. Creativity and creation are, like all things, a balance. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:15 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 13:47:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmRYf-0001mh-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:40:31 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: creative isolation In-Reply-To: <199701202124.QAA27760@acc.haverford.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pAW6ZD.A.6-.XZ-4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1689 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 5e38dda6f9d34ccc8ca8a1d7111dfa0b On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 jspeer@haverford.edu wrote: > Actually if you think about it, influences provide a necessary context by > which you music will be heard. Even if you do the impossible and generate > an entirely influence-less composition (perhaps you could simulate one > randomly on a computer) your audience *is* likely to have heard other > peices before, and will assign your piece a context you did not intend. > This is very important. That's a very interesting point. The human mind, exposed to totally new information, will try to impose old patterns of recognition. Moreover, it's much easier to comprehend new information if it fits a known pattern. I don't find Frippertronics difficult to listen to or follow, because I've listened to it for years. Wagner, on the other hand, is very difficult for me to understand, but very easy for someone well versed in opera. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:06 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 13:02:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmQqu-0004iE-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:02:00 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:01:36 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: the great Beyond..... Resent-Message-ID: <"8cZraB.A.6vD.6u94y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1686 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:02:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 2427bd39b6d15d6c0fd2e7fc1c018d19 Dr Michael: >"Now I can do all that cool stuff RF does!" So ya loop footswolen chords, >noodle over the top of it and hey, this sounds like No Pussyfooting! ... >"beyond" Fripp, what I mean is that I'm trying to break out of the >"ambient soundscape with noodling over the top" and try to approach the >whole issue differently. I like this one. After six month looping with footswolen chords and twingeling textures, I finally one morning (I never play in the morning) woke up and played a 3 seconds rock kind of riff and it had a solid drive and I became aware that almost any style can be played like that. >Hey, just think! Robert Fripp could be sitting in a room somewhere, >looking disparingly at his guitar and saying "but how can I go _beyond_ >Michael Peters?" I like this one even more. Imagine each of us goes beyond each other. Thats why I apologised some months ago and wanted to correct "beyond" to "beside" or something. >Matthias (got the tape yet?) nope > _give up your instrument_! ... Coming back to it >afterwards, I went straight into practicing music that was (a) completely >different to my previous playing (ie rote licks) and (b) compositionally >nearer to what I wanted to hear. Yes... I should have payed more atention to that, maybe. Before my one year trip with only my music, I had a year in which I only played accoustic (not my thing) sometimes, because I could not stand any more what I did before. So this might have been important. There have been other things like a Tai Chi course, experiences with Reiki, Shiatsu... mainly because of a hurting back, but also because I suddenly lived with a physioterapist and fell in love with a nurse... so each life is different and its about impossible to transfer experience... sad... And yes, I also made that amazing experience that we can improve without playing the instrument. As if something in the brain arranges itself in the background. A friend even told me, that he keeps practicing while driving, by imaginating the sound and the fingering, and really, it helps! From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:16 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 14:16:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmS0V-0004pt-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:15:59 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: Creativity and Technique Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:09:24 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 39 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"8fi37D.A.X-D.U1-4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1690 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:15:59 -0800 X-UIDL: abcc323728a51c60170bcbf6982f287a Dave Stanger wrote: >Technique is an expressive tool. It is our only channel to release creativity. On the other hand, technique is a trap. It is altogether too easy to fall back on stock licks, and play from the hands instead of the heart. This balance between technique and creativity is constantly shifting throughout our musical lives. Sometimes I'm more creative, sometimes I'm more technique-driven. Sometimes I set the guitar down in disgust and won't play for weeks. When I come back, I may be brilliant, or I may be fighting to regain the lost muscle memory. Creativity and creation are, like all things, a balance. -dave< I agree with most of your post Dave, However I don't think technique is a trap within itself or a trade off from creativity. I know what you mean by relying on stock licks or riffs being a trap, but I believe to express yourself as a musician you need to practice technique and develop skill. Only when you have mastered your instrument can you play from your inspiration. It is frustrating to have a musical idea and not have the technique to play it. That's where I'm at with my looping (I've only had the jamdude for about a month now), but I'm working on technique so I can reach that point. Many music students give up before they develope the technique to play inspiring music because of said frustration and lack of patience or disipline. (I got my brother's electric guitar that way) I think technique and creativity are not opposing forces but are complimentary. later John From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:27 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 14:34:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmSI4-0006kf-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:34:08 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:26:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199701202226.OAA00641@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: slider & pedal for a vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"-5dEOC.A.BoF.GF_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1691 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:34:08 -0800 X-UIDL: dd937d115a9254ae55404fffeb93c825 >hi all ! i also wonder about my vortex/expression issue. I just got (one of >the last) guitar center ones - no problems, it seems - tho' it arrived sans >"footpedal" or booklet !! are the instructions on line somewhere ?? also - i >have a roland EV-10 expression ped. - what do i have to do to set it up - >other than plug it in ?? any settings?? i'm in just about the exact same situation as you - snagged the last bay area guitar center vortex, no manual or accessories. i also got a roland ev-5 pedal (the one used by John Durant), but it doesn't seem to do anything by just plugging it in. what's the trick? i'll address the manual/adapter issues in another post... james From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:26 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 14:34:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmSHs-0006jd-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:33:56 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:26:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199701202226.OAA00647@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: vortex adapter and manual - help? Resent-Message-ID: <"VvwItC.A.bpF.RF_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1692 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:33:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 94d041f12740e104501f31e4bb17f7b2 hi folks, as mentioned in my previous post, i just got a vortex w/out manual or accessories. my jamman sits silent and cold as its 9VAC lifesblood is sucked up by its new friend. i called lexicon to order the adapter today, got patched to the marketing guy's answering machine, and was told he would be at NAMM 'til thursday (which means i probably wouldn't get the goods for a couple weeks). i want to play with my toys!!! does anyone know of anywhere (besides lexicon) one can buy a 9V, 1 amp AC wall wart? why did they have to use 9V AC, anyway? so people would have no choice but to buy their special adapter? (there were some 9V, 780ma AC adapters at radio shack. anyone know if that's enough juice?) also, being manual-less is rather unpleasant. if someone, out of the sheer generosity of their heart, could take a couple minutes to scan it and email me some JPEGs (or 2-color GIFs, compressed TIFFs, whatever) i would be your slave forever. or, better idea: they could be posted on the looper's delight vortex page for others in a similar situation, or for people curious about what this thing does. also, if anyone has the vortex "application notes", i'm sure there are many vortex users who would love to see these posted on the page. no need for OCR or transcription, any legible scans will do. thanks in advance, james From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:28 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 14:36:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmSJx-0006yS-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:36:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 17:28:19 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701202228.AA07081@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"aonJpB.A.JyF.XG_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1693 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:36:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 7db7cbe66600d5df2f9a9ef462e74fde The topic of creative isolation is striking a chord with me: probably with many others. Somewhat off formal list topic, but nonetheless central to all of us who want to create. My own situation, and life story, is one that has kept musical creative satisfaction tantalizingly within arms reach, but far too infrequent in its actualization (probably a familiar theme to many). At the present time, I am an overly-degreed individual, writing software in a Nuclear Medicine group while pursuing a PhD in quantitative social science research and program evaluation. My primary creative impulses in life are and *have always been* musical ones, but it has taken a very long time for me to realize the profound depth to which this is true. Actually, as I write this at 43, I am in the process of evaluating/re-evaluating the direction that I want my energies to take. There are many reasons why and when we create, and why choose or don't choose the musical road. For me, the story has to do with the sense that I always needed to be doing something else, something conventional, and also had to do with some hand problems that have affected my feelings and senses about playing the guitar (more than my actual ability, so I have come to learn). Anyway, I know what creative isolation can be. Although I spent a fair portion of my 20's and 30's as a working musician, it has been a long time since I've been surrounded *constantly* by performing and working musicians. Here are my insights, for what they may be worth. I agree completely with Jason N. Joseph: >As time wears on I become increasingly cynical about this, perhaps >agreeing with Brian Eno that there is *no way* to be freed of one's >influences, and thus the task at hand is not to find your own "pure >voice", which I take it he does not believe to exist, but instead to >come up with the most interesting and unique combinations of such >influences... "Composting" he calls it. Ultimately, I believe that music is a communal enterprise. On an individual psychological level, we are never separate from those works which inspire us, those we might perform with, and those for whom we might perform. I'm not saying we can't take immense joy from sitting alone with our instrument, but to me there is always *some* degree to which we create and perform for that virtual audience that we carry in our heads. I think there is a natural, communicative, and expressive human impulse to share beautiful art with others. I think it is a basic as an infant wanting to have someone to babble to. To wit, the people in my life (and there have been quite a few) who were able to take their musicianship somewhere were those who made full-out, no-safety-net commitments to the process. Talent is important, but this ability to commit is actually more important, given even a nominal degree of talent. I suppose there are varying levels of professional commitment. My main point is that I've never witnessed really potent stuff coming from someone who did their thing in isolation (doesn't mean it can't happen!). What does all of this have to do with creative isolation? I guess I would subscribe to the "no person is an island" point of view. We all start somewhere, if we grow up in civilization. Our aesthetics and tastes are carved out and tuned by an interaction between our own nervous stuff and the environment. There is no "tabula rasa", but neither is there some autonomous, congenital, pure, "inner voice", in my opinion. So we are all musical mutts when it comes to our sensibilities and imaginations, unless we have indeed been raised by wolves. I don't think we can ever escape our musical and tonal conditioning any more than we can escape the meanings and nuances generated by the knowledge of our mother tongues. So what is this creative stuff all about, whether done in seeming isolation or within a group session? I think there is a large conditioning factor. Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: >Finally, Andre recommended listening to completely different avenues of >music in order to overcome copying other musicians. Matthias (got the tape >yet?) went one step further in suggesting listening to _no_ other >musicians. I'll go the whole hog and say _give up your instrument_! OK >it's a bit extreme. This, to me, sounds like a means toward overcoming one's musical conditioning. But might not it be closer to the *learning* of something new. Can we change the way we organize our thoughts, perhaps even our personalities, by taking up a new language? Perhaps. But might this be an indirect means, somewhat haphazard, and eliminative of the stuff that has worked for us. Musical and artistic styles seem to coalesce around the brilliant statements of artists. When we hear a great artist like ________ (fill in the blank), we hear something that is so complete, sometimes so overwhelmingly powerful, that to us it becomes a "pure" statement of something, like a heavenly voice, ineffable, complete unto itself, having a life of it's own: the list of superlatives can go on and on. I feel this way when hearing great music, and I realize that I cannot imagine it being any better: this music then forms the horizon for what I may think is possible, although this perception too is open to reinterpretation over time, and often does get reinterpreted. So I think some of this discussion about "going beyond" and expanding horizons has a lot to do with the analysis/synthesis process that we all go through when we *learn* something new. No two of us hear and feel the same way. No two of us have the same hands, the same joints for fretting or pressing the keys. The best way we can love and honor our influences is to make them our own. I think when we bring the music home, deep into ourselves, that this is when we innovate ... this is when the synaptic connections are made. Mostly, I think it requires conscious effort and the inner discipline that seems to come when we give ourselves to something bigger than we can fully grasp, which is what happens when we form hypotheses and think inductively. When we do this, we take a risk, and there is often the anxiety that we may fail to bring home the goods, to hit some mark of truth, in the vast field of possibilities. There are so many ways to characterize the creative musical process. Probably many of them are valid, and can help us in thinking about what we are doing. For me, that inner "pure" voice is something that is sought via a process that is dialetical in nature. You have a thesis about the way your music might sound from all your greatest influences. As an antithesis to this, you have all the things about those great influences that hit you in a unique way: the unique factors you bring, be they psychological, physiological, conceptual, experiential, spiritual, or whatever: you throw some variables into the pot which are special to you. The audible and observable things you do is then some kind of synthesis of all these factors, many of them common to what is out there in the world and some of them unique to you. Some people will be able to cultivate more of what is unique within them. I think that people grow and cultivate their unique factors, their unique contributions to what is already out there in the world. I think it is a semi-conscious process. Another way of saying this, is that you can create the conditions wherein the whole spectrum of learning and creativity (i.e. thesis, antithesis, synthesis) become possible. Once you have the right primordial soup, all the conditions for life (or music) are available, and all you need is the right spark to get some combustion going. A lot of the work takes place in creating those conditions; in creating that soup. A lot of that work is technical and specific. How can I play that voicing on the guitar? Where on the neck can I get my hands to play that scale? What scales or patterns can I run over that chord? How can I create phrases that will convey a particular feeling or create a particular effect. There is a lot of problem solving going on, but not necessarily in terms of conventional notation, harmonic theory, etc. These are just ways of describing or modeling something. But there is a lot of preparation for making music. Everybody has to go through this. Maybe the rest of creativity is intuition, talent, black magic, luck, stubbornness, willpower. Some people just have to work something over, compulsively, till they get it to where it makes sense to them. There is a lot of processing going on. Maybe a lot of it is going on even away from the instrument. When we finally hear a brilliant and "original" artist, we are taken away by the statement, but the work that went into it is often lost on us at that moment, almost hard to imagine. Take an artist like Hendrix, for example. He didn't work with notation or harmonic theory, but you can bet that he knew what sounds he was making while he played. He's often thought of as being revolutionary. Often, other musicians reacted to him as if he had come from outer space. We know the cliches that he fell asleep with his clothes on, the guitar across his chest. When he was with the Isley Brothers as a backup player, he was said to be playing constantly. Who the hell knows what was going on with him during those times, how he practiced, what he worked on. We know he was deep into the blues, but he also listened to Bob Dylan and a lot of pop music. His understanding was a deep one. What he evolved into was no accident, no freak occurrence. Another example is Frank Zappa: someone with a great musical mind and imagination. Some of his pieces have more ideas happening in a few bars than others have happening in their life's work. He was ripe with "Invention" (appropriately, a mother of invention). Where did that all come from? From nowhere? In his mind his was tuning into 50's do-wop music, blues, Bulgarian music, 20th century "serious" composition, etc., since he was a teenager. He made connections. He was able to internalize stuff in ways that no one had before and make some serious musical mutations out of what had come before. His own metaphors of "invention" and "mutation" are apt descriptions for what he was actually doing. And of course he, as did Hendrix, as did most of the great ones, made this music in a social context. There were people around. Bands. Music was written and put together for live performance. A person like Zappa had, it would seem, a pretty keen awareness of what he was doing and of what materials he was working with. He once spoke about himself not as a composer, but as an organizer of stuff. "Give me some stuff", he said, "and I'll find a way to organize it for you". To cut to the chase of all this verbiage, it is my argument that no one is free of their influences, even if they hole themselves up in a cave. Jason N. Joseph wrote: >I routinely bounce back and forth between these two seeming opposites >[internal vs. external stimulus]. I'm slowly coming to some kind of piece >with *that* incongruity, too. To me, the "incongruity" is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. There is a commutation, a "Composting" if you will, that goes on as we absorb (thesis), react (antithesis), and create (synthesis). There is a continuum, an almost imperceptible passing back and forth as we listen, react, compare, edit, etc., often in short spaces of time. In Gestalt psychology, there is the duality of figure and ground. Have you ever seen those plates (line drawings) that can been seen as either an old woman or a pretty young woman. We are often jumping back and forth, altering our own perspective on what we see, on what we hear. Maybe in one moment I will hear my striving to express an ideal as played by one of my heros, as played by one of my influences. In the next moment, I will hear that the voice has become me, that I am making the statement now, and that I have appropriated the music as my own. It is amazing when this happens, joyful. All of a sudden, my whole is greater than the sum of its parts, of its influences. It is like catching that great proverbial wave and going for it. Thought and striving almost seem to stop as we are witness to our own creativity, our own ability to make a statement that is in ways like others, but yet like no other. Figure and ground. Figure and ground. Go figure! To get to this point, to be able to hang glide upon the thermals and eddies that others have created, is called paying your dues. It is the love of the music that creates the energy and discipline to do this crazy work, to practice for hours, to figure out the notes that somebody else has played. And again, we are hard-pressed to achieve isolation in this work. If we put down the instrument for a year, maybe we are seeing the extinction artifact as our habits decay. I'm not questioning whether or not one might not have a new sense of the music after a year away. But generally, I think that growth and maturation as a player will be accompanied by some conscious effort, irregardless of what formalisms or symbolisms are used to model what is happening musically. Although time away from anything can make us feel fresh about what we do, I wonder about the extent that time away can help us to do new things. Might this not be more of a manipulation of our own perceptions than a means toward new ideas and creativity, unless we are using that time away to process and integrate what we have already been exposed to. In this sense it is like waking up fresh, after a good sleep, when things somehow seem to have sorted themselves out (research on learning, in fact, highlights the importance of sleep in integrating knowledge acquired). Well, I have played with a lot of words here ... hopefully not put others to sleep. And it is so easy to get lost in words ... that is why we all love music so much ... it cannot lie to us. As a final note, it is interesting that this line of thought has evolved among this group of loopers. As a looper, is one not creating some sort of creative isolation, in so far as one is bouncing their ideas off the wall/mirror that looping devices provide. Might not a lot of looping experimentation be likened to the game of solitaire, in which one is forced to react to the choices that they have made in the previous play. I can see that others are responding on this topic of isolation and creativity, so I will cut my entry here and read the others. Can we ever start with a blank canvas, tabula rasa? I think not. Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:34 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 14:44:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmSRy-000022-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:44:22 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701202240.OAA22171@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:40:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Ott, John" at Jan 20, 97 04:09:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1whxFD.A.EBH.0R_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1694 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:44:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 4e6e5c9f47284222bb9516a82d288c12 > your inspiration. It is frustrating to have a musical > idea and not have the technique to play it. That's where > I'm at with my looping (I've only had the jamdude for about > a month now), but I'm working on technique so I can reach > that point. Many music students give up before they develope the >From personal experience and correspondence with other players I found that whenever a musical idea is encountered that is difficult to play, it's best to just work out the fingering and practice it slowly instead of relying on canned exercises such as scales, arpeggios, etc. for solving the technical problem. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:35 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 14:49:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmSXH-0000cq-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:49:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:45:53 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bJrd3C.A.YN.sW_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1695 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:49:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 1aae8a8a10a7c6f52ef27433de825337 On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Ott, John wrote: > I agree with most of your post Dave, However I don't think > technique is a trap within itself or a trade off from creativity. > I know what you mean by relying on stock licks or riffs being a trap, > but I believe to express yourself as a musician you need to practice > technique > and develop skill. Only when you have mastered your instrument can you > play from > your inspiration. It is frustrating to have a musical > idea and not have the technique to play it. That's where > I'm at with my looping (I've only had the jamdude for about > a month now), but I'm working on technique so I can reach > that point. Many music students give up before they develope the > technique > to play inspiring music because of said frustration and lack of patience > or disipline. > (I got my brother's electric guitar that way) Technique is only necessary to the point where you are capable of expressing the idea in your head. Moreover, and perhaps more importantly, technique is no guarantee of expression. And even more importantly, technique is far broader than the ability to physically control the instrument. The intellectual and emotional processes to tap new ideas to express are also technique. Look at Neil Young. "Technically", he's not a very good guitarist. But as someone once observed, you can't slip a piece of paper between what he feels and what he plays. His technique is sufficient for his expression. He's no master of his instrument, but he's a master of the technique of channelling his emotions musically. > I think technique and creativity are not opposing forces > but are complimentary. I carefully chose the word "balance" for the relationship of technique and expression. Balance implies neither opposition nor compliment. Art comes from the balance between technique and expression. Too much technique shifts the art away from expression. Insufficient technique prevents the art from being realized. Perhaps even "balance" is a poor term. Technique must be sufficient for expression, but excessive technique is unnecessary. And the temptation to use excessive technique detracts us from expression. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:37 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 14:57:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmSe9-0001OX-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:56:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:51:20 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: slider & pedal for a vortex In-Reply-To: <199701202226.OAA00641@dsp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gWK1aD.A.Hz.Bc_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1696 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:56:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 644a786e24165ad8ffa51f1f1c387bd3 On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, James Reynolds wrote: > >hi all ! i also wonder about my vortex/expression issue. I just got (one of > >the last) guitar center ones - no problems, it seems - tho' it arrived sans > >"footpedal" or booklet !! are the instructions on line somewhere ?? also - i > >have a roland EV-10 expression ped. - what do i have to do to set it up - > >other than plug it in ?? any settings?? > > i'm in just about the exact same situation as you - snagged the last bay > area guitar center vortex, no manual or accessories. i also got a roland > ev-5 pedal (the one used by John Durant), but it doesn't seem to do anything > by just plugging it in. what's the trick? No manual? Eeek!! Does someone have a spare they can send James? I'd hate to have a Vortex with no manual... To assign the pedal to a parameter, turn the select knob to the correct parameter and press the "Tap" button. Then the pedal will control that parameter. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:40 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 15:11:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmSsX-0002wK-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:11:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:03:05 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: the great Beyond..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cRYopD.A.HbC.cr_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1697 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:11:49 -0800 X-UIDL: e68425ae14eda2b7844d5f1121f36c19 On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Matthias Grob wrote: > A friend even told me, that he keeps practicing while driving, by > imaginating the sound and the fingering, and really, it helps! A few years ago, when I was bedridden after a tonsilectomy, I mentally went over some ideas I wanted to try out on the fingerboard without actually having had the chance to sit down and work it out. When I went to play again for the first time in a week, it was all in place. Mind over matter...! --Andre From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:44 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 15:32:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmTCw-0005EH-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:32:54 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: the great Beyond..... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:27:21 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 27 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"QnWk1B.A.3dE.i-_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1699 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:32:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 49c6e9bfb1f6df639714ad67c478741f >>---------- >From: The Man Himself >Sent: Monday, January 20, 1997 11:03 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Re: the great Beyond..... > >On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Matthias Grob wrote: > >> A friend even told me, that he keeps practicing while driving, by >> imaginating the sound and the fingering, and really, it helps! > >A few years ago, when I was bedridden after a tonsilectomy, I mentally >went over some ideas I wanted to try out on the fingerboard without >actually having had the chance to sit down and work it out. When I went >to play again for the first time in a week, it was all in place. Mind >over matter...! > --Andre< I prefer Andre's technique. Much easier on car bumpers. later >John > > From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 01:38:03 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 19 20:37:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmBUV-0004FG-00; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:37:51 -0800 Message-ID: <32E400EA.62FE@erols.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:34:02 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: slider for a vortex References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-Iu86C.A.qvD.fXv4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1676 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:37:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 2e65b2fb080706160d604e0289710b04 > Would anyone bother for this brother of another list? > > >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:55:31 -0800 (PST) > >From: Saul Stokes > >To: synth-diy@horus.sara.nl > >Subject: slider with a vortex > >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Sender: owner-synth-diy@horus.sara.nl > >Precedence: bulk > > > >Hi, awhile back I decided to build a slider controller for my Lexicon > >Vortex. Last night I got it together and hooked it up but it doesn't >>seem to control any of the Vortex's features. It does however work on >>my other instruments. At first, I wasn't sure of the pinout on the >>slider and tried different combinations to see if it would work. Now >>that I have it hooked up the correct way (thanks to Ric) and it still >>doesn't work, I'm beginning to think that maybe I fried something due >>to my experimenting. I can't imagine this happening since it's just a >>slider and a stereo cord. My question is could I have fried something >>by hooking the stereo wires up every which way to the slider? Also >>does anybody use an expression pedal on their Vortex? Do you have any >>problems with it? > > > >Ciao, > >Saul > >www.hypnos.com/stokes.htm Saul's fear of having fried some part Vortex is like my own. I thought I'd use my trusty MuTron volume/wah (on the volume only setting), with a carefully constructed stereo ring/tip Y split cable for expressive morphing. It didn't work. I thought my problem was in the making of the cable, but it turned out to be a well-enough made cable. The MuTron's volume pot works great, so I'm not sure why this alternative to the standard expression pedal didn't work for me. I dunno; I'm not very knowledgeable in the ways of the electron. So, next, I went downtown to my local music store and bought a Yamaha FC-7 expression pedal. The pedal works for morphing and other parameter value changes, but it requires a very light touch. A very short arc-piece of the full possible range of the pedal sweeps ya from 1 to 64. The Vortex manual states that toe-up position = parameter value 1 and toe-down position = 64. But my pedal seems to be functioning with toe-middle = 1, and toe-7mm lower = 64. The expression pedal seems to be working fine for other expression pedal purposes (e.g., midi-synth parameter changes with a Roland GM-70). Does anyone else have this "problem" with another brand of expression pedal? Perhaps there is a way to program the Vortex to solve this problem. I haven't learned enough about the thing yet. I do enjoy it though. Maybe I'll just have to learn to be a bit more light-footed? Did I harm (insult?) the Vortex by trying to control it with a mid-seventies vintage MuTron? I think I read a Loopers-Delight posting from John Pollock which recommended the stereo ring/tip Y split cable plus volume pedal in lieu of shelling out the cash for an expression pedal. I think he wrote that his own version of this set-up worked well for him. I don't know why Saul's and mine didn't. Any suggestions? Thanks, Preston From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:46 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 15:33:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmTD2-0005Ev-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:33:00 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199701202331.AA243583103@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re: the great Beyond..... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:31:43 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "The Man Himself" at Jan 20, 97 03:03:05 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"CThWZD.A.tZE.A-_4y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1698 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:33:00 -0800 X-UIDL: bdb8c89ba8b161f4708c65ee073dcfb7 > > A few years ago, when I was bedridden after a tonsilectomy, I mentally > went over some ideas I wanted to try out on the fingerboard without > actually having had the chance to sit down and work it out. When I went > to play again for the first time in a week, it was all in place. Mind > over matter...! > Ironically enough, my Father in law is a professional organist who swears that after he studied the manual on a scientific calculator, he was able to play Bach and Vidor pieces as though he had practiced for a considerable amount of time! -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:50 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 16:47:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmUNO-0005Vd-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:47:46 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701210042.QAA23076@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: creative isolation To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:42:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199701201137_MC1-F99-528D@compuserve.com> from "Jason N. Joseph" at Jan 20, 97 11:37:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gxxb5.A.2pE.BEB5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1701 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:47:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 6de7d8cd9dcb84d171a22d8a15206bc6 I recently went through a stage where I felt Pat Metheny, the King Crimson players, Allan Holdsworth, John McLaughlin and Fred Frith (please don't be offended if I left out the name of your favorite guitarist) pretty much said everything I ever wanted to say on guitar so I stopped playing the guitar. I haven't played it seriously in almost a year now. I mostly played Chapman Stick. Most recently I bought a little drum made in Pakistan, a pair of drumsticks, and have begun practicing some of the 26 standard drum rudiments. At present, I feel like I am on an extended vacation from the guitar. Playing the Stick reminded me of my childhood piano playing experience but more importantly turned me on to the idea of being a bass player. The funny thing is that recent recordings that have made me excited about music again either feature the bass prominently (Victor Wooten - A Show Of Hands, Me'shell NgedeOcello's latest CD) or feature looping either in and of itself or as part of a pop context (latest CDs by Meat Beat Manifesto, DJ Spooky, Beck's _Odelay_). Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:21:52 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 16:51:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmUQi-0005rB-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:51:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:45:15 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970120193824_1177462304@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"JCIajC.A.lCF.iHB5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1702 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:51:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 583e739aa85d9d1f0fc06e6d85670f62 a few observations: 1)accept the fact that you are, at least to some extent, a product of your environmet. Thus everything is an "influence". 2)"bad" influences are of our own creation. they usually result from idolizing a particlar artist or style and becoming trapped with-in those confines. The problem then becomes one of trying to negate the influence. Working within the confines of the "bad" influence or trying to negate the "bad" influence are both wastes of time. The truely unique "live" 1) and don't bother themselves with 2) Take care. And try not to think so much. ;-) --Paul From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:22:02 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 17:32:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmV4L-0002OX-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:32:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:27:50 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970120202644_134824000@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"aj_vGC.A._4B.VvB5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1704 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:32:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 44fecaaf8f61e68aeaf82c2f518763dd <> What does "good" mean? If you're referring to adroitness then there is always going to be somebody more physically adept than the next guy. I thought we were talking music/art not sports. As long as the technique allows the art to manifest itself to the artists specifications then that's all that matters. I guess one could argue that if, in this case Neil Young , were to improve(?) his physical guitaristic capabilities then maybe he could express more. Maybe/Maybe not. What came first the chicken or the egg? Where does a light go when it goes out? 8-) --Paul From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:22:07 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 19:43:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmX7C-0007NE-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:43:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:28:06 -0500 (EST) From: Stew Benedict To: James Reynolds cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: vortex adapter and manual - help? In-Reply-To: <199701202226.OAA00647@dsp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ycavr.A.NsG.BrD5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1706 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:43:14 -0800 X-UIDL: aadc2e578267782061da2c61e3a6d432 I could scan this in if there aren't any other volunteers... Stew From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:22:04 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 19:27:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmWrq-0005po-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:27:22 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701210323.TAA24020@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: beyond:what, or whom? re-sent: faulty slip.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:23:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <970118075030_374681082@emout11.mail.aol.com> from "Texture444@aol.com" at Jan 18, 97 07:50:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i7XQ6C.A.QEF.BbD5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1705 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:27:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c02265234a87503e7bf7e0e3517d0d7 > can we get beyond our *own* limitations in this chosen medium? even those > limitations that seem fenced & barriered by what we (possibly: mistakenly) > assume to be our heroes boundaries? > can we aspire to something of more lasting value than feeding the harsh > fecundity of a two-headed, two-dimensional societal beast with it's continual > this-vs.-thatting? > anyway. > well. > sorry if i blathered: i do that, now & again: i mean no harm. > i promise i'll post w/something more concrete, sometime. > best to all, > david torn I apologize in turn for not answering David's questions directly. It's just that they remind me of a questionnaire my favorite college professor George Lewis asked us the first day of the Introduction To Music Making class. From memory, the questions were something like these: 1. What kinds of music do you listen to? 2. How does the music reach your ears (radio/CD player/etc.)? 3. Who decides what music will reach your ears? 4. How much of a role does money play in the way music reaches your ears (sorry, I probably phrased it wrong)? 5. How much of a role does money play in the decision-making involved in what music reaches your ears? 6. What influences your music listening choices? a. Parents (do they encourange/restrict) b. Friends (are their tastes influenced by fashion trends?) c. Media There were more questions than that of course. This questionnaire and George's playing of non-commercial music (some of it unlistenable to me at the time) pissed off some students. One of them was so pissed off that for his performance project, he simply stood up in front of class and said "This is bullshit. This is bullshit. This is..." (ad infinitum). When I first got to know George, I felt similarly for a while. If he saw cassettes in my backpack, he would pull them out, pop them into his stereo, listen to them and proceed to tellme I was listening to crap! Imagine the damage to the psyche of a young man who believed the Rippingtons and Spyro Gyra actually played jazz! ^_^ Later, I finally understood my musical tastes had been dictated to me by the radio and magazines. The music I had listened to and liked were definitely influenced by big money. I began to realize I had no appreciation for truly creative music because I hadn't been exposed to it. Gradually, I stopped listening to the radio. Today, I only listen to the radio for football games. ^_^ Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:22:12 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 21:31:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmYno-0001kr-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:31:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:27:17 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970121002715_1419926098@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"47Y9LC.A.1WB.1PF5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1708 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:31:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 6717fdc2e3ef91acde0acd89747234b9 -dave wrote: <> THIS, for me, is the entire reason for doing what I do with my guitar (and Vortex, vg-8, etc, etc,...and how amazingly similar it sounds to what others on this list do--as a process, of course; I've no idea about other's results-and, incidently, NO idea what rfripp sounds like these days! {nor do I even have a looper!}[[can i still come along??huh??huh??]]). For me, practicing, noodling, composing, excercising, sound designing, whatever, they're all really just what I need to do while waiting for the angel to appear behind me, the spirit to descend, the clouds to part, the present to unfold itself into an infinite NOW of no possible wrong notes, when every gesture is appropriate, and every influence is revealed to have simply been a reminder of an all-ready heard and longed for beauty. When this DOES happen, only then does all the everyday work make sense...so I keep it up, no matter how it feels, as much as possible, trying not to judge it, or myself for failing. (And thus the recordings, when I'm lucky enough to have a tape available, seem to improve, as artifacts, at least. NOTHING can improve on the experience.) After all, if you're not out standing in the road how will you know when the bus comes by? ...I seem to remember somebody saying "...in art the most important thing is to just show up." ...may the unseen world send blessings upon us all! david From ???@??? Mon Jan 20 23:22:17 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 20 21:46:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmZ2B-0003Al-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:46:11 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:42:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970121004245_1759060217@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"I5hUCB.A.FuC.VeF5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1709 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:46:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 600940cf37aa2c010114c6623661346f -again, dave wrote: <> I think you can go further and assert that technical limitations are never a barrier to expression. If the need to express, or the content, is demanding enough, it finds a way. When technical freedom is met with great inspiration, it makes for a sublimely entertaining experience, but not necessarily more a compelling one, merely because of its brilliance. We'd love to have everything, but it's not really necessary. From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:29 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 07:47:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmiQX-0003Xy-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:47:57 -0800 Posted-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:29:13 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:00:32 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra@dimensional.com (Robert Phelps) Subject: Re: New Lex ad Resent-Message-ID: <"ZjSusD.A.0CD.ORO5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1716 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:47:57 -0800 X-UIDL: ab5324af1a6d4ce5c84a660276ad38a2 Michael> I read that, when he was a pilot, Steve Morse would practive while driving to/from work - put the car on cruise control, and play whilst steering with his knees.... Expains a bit perhaps about Los Angeles Freeways. Dont try this at home kids! :-) From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:48:55 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 03:06:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vme2L-0006kb-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:06:41 -0800 Message-Id: <14228.199701211039@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:39:38 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"TnvN0.A.6JG.9JK5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1711 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:06:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 0e3b1de21f9da517b3190d42abb4497d Emmanuel: >Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: > >>Finally, Andre recommended listening to completely different avenues of >>music in order to overcome copying other musicians. Matthias (got the tape >>yet?) went one step further in suggesting listening to _no_ other >>musicians. I'll go the whole hog and say _give up your instrument_! OK >>it's a bit extreme. > >This, to me, sounds like a means toward overcoming one's musical conditioning. >But might not it be closer to the *learning* of something new. Can we change >the way we organize our thoughts, perhaps even our personalities, by taking >up a new language? Perhaps. But might this be an indirect means, somewhat >haphazard, and eliminative of the stuff that has worked for us. To an extent, for me, it wasn't so much a case of learning something new as unlearning something old. The muscle memory cleared; I could still move my fingers as before (after a couple of weeks of exercises anyway!), but I'd lost many of the old blues licks that I'd previously tended to drop into my playing at any opportunity. Rather than learn the instrument in the "traditional" sense of learning simple stuff, them mor complex stuff and so on, I was able to start straight into a musical environment closer to what I percieve is "the music I'd like to sound like". By starting to re-learn my vocabulary, I was able to clear out all the influences (many just picked up from the radio) that I'd never felt should be there, and structure my music from the ground up. >In Gestalt psychology, there is the duality of figure and ground. Have >you ever seen those plates (line drawings) that can been seen as either >an old woman or a pretty young woman. We are often jumping back and forth, >altering our own perspective on what we see, on what we hear. Maybe in one >moment I will hear my striving to express an ideal as played by one of my >heros, as played by one of my influences. In the next moment, I will hear >that the voice has become me, that I am making the statement now, and >that I have appropriated the music as my own. It is amazing when this >happens, joyful. All of a sudden, my whole is greater than the sum of >its parts, of its influences. It is like catching that great proverbial >wave and going for it. Thought and striving almost seem to stop as we >are witness to our own creativity, our own ability to make a statement >that is in ways like others, but yet like no other. Figure and ground. >Figure and ground. Go figure! I've read about this a lot, and have experienced it a few times - that rapture when you're no longer playing your fingers, they're playing themselves whilst you listen to exactly the kind of music you always wanted to play. I find myself thinking "I never realised my voice would sound so much like _____ or ____", but knowing that it _is_ my voice, without a doubt. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen very often for me. How about everyone else? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:48:53 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 03:06:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vme1r-0006jN-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:06:11 -0800 Message-Id: <14385.199701211045@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:45:09 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"Q8k6cD.A.aJG.4JK5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1710 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:06:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 9669976fd84d74fb7f5db9e794162ad7 Paolo: >I recently went through a stage where I felt Pat Metheny, the King >Crimson players, Allan Holdsworth, John McLaughlin and Fred Frith (please >don't be offended if I left out the name of your favorite guitarist) pretty >much said everything I ever wanted to say on guitar so I stopped playing the >guitar. I haven't played it seriously in almost a year now. That's a shame - just because one hears an eloguent speaker, who expresses your views exactly, it doesn't require one to shut up or learn another language because one feels one has nothing to say. There is a romantic "artistic merit"* in this (anyone seen The Piano"?) but I'm unsure as to whether it actually benefits either the player or the audience. Michael *According to my wife anyway. This film inspired much debate! Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 03:46:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmeey-000096-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:46:36 -0800 Message-Id: <15957.199701211141@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:41:47 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"2kOZoD.A.oTH.EuK5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1712 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:46:36 -0800 X-UIDL: f577a38c9f6cd31a394b1a59630f1e5b Jason, after Matthias: > I believed, when I first >got into the recording business, that each musical "stage" I went through >was a process of sloughing off my influences, one by one... and by >continuing this process, and also by making every effort *not* to try to >imitate any other musician in terms of technique or compositional >style, I would eventually arrive at some sort of "pure" form of my own >musical voice. Does this lead to a musical "inbreeding" at all? I have tried to follow a link from my earliest recordings to the present day and can see one, but I've absorbed a lot of stuff since then - the Renaissance style is a large part of my playing, and I'd never heard any of that kind of music for many years after I started playing. When has one absorbed enough influences to stop? >As time wears on I become increasingly cynical about this, perhaps >agreeing with Brian Eno that there is *no way* to be freed of one's >influences, and thus the task at hand is not to find your own "pure >voice", which I take it he does not believe to exist, but instead to >come up with the most interesting and unique combinations of such >influences... "Composting" he calls it. Thinking about this, we can almost see how, in the absence of hearing _any_ kind of music before, our instruments still tie us to playing in certain ways. At the piano you're tied to the chromatic scale but very much encouraged to play in C major. Guitar is a bit better, in that all notes are given equal weighting, but you have to go to the classical strings, or maybe the trombone, before you're freed up from the influence of the scale via the instrument. This is dealing with Western isnstruments only, of course. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:59 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 10:28:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmkvu-0003pG-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:28:30 -0800 Message-ID: <32E4B654.61F2@interaccess.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:28:17 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Lex ad References: <20691.199701211503@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"--jCYD.A.RLD.TnQ5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1724 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:28:30 -0800 X-UIDL: fc4c532e3fe188b3a04809a2c95bffdc Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > The new Lex processor - the MPX? - ad slogan is wonderful. > > "The MPX - it does everything you expect" > > Is this an attempt to distance the company from the unexpected Vortex, Greg? > I heard from a Sweetwater rep that the new box has some interesting patches in the Chorus bank, with names such as centrifuge and orbits.... jim From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:26 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 06:54:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmhb8-0007n2-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:54:50 -0800 Message-Id: <9701211454.AA19832@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:34:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: slider & pedal for a vortex To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"csjPLB.A.LGH.PgN5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1714 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:54:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 2b5b5e2b9e3b09629efedea4b8bcd14c ---------- From: Loopers-Delight To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Re: slider & pedal for a vortex Date: Tuesday, January 21, 1997 6:46AM >hi all ! i also wonder about my vortex/expression issue. I just got (one of >the last) guitar center ones - no problems, it seems - tho' it arrived sans >"footpedal" or booklet !! are the instructions on line somewhere ?? also - i >have a roland EV-10 expression ped. - what do i have to do to set it up - >other than plug it in ?? any settings?? i'm in just about the exact same situation as you - snagged the last bay area guitar center vortex, no manual or accessories. i also got a roland ev-5 pedal (the one used by John Durant), but it doesn't seem to do anything by just plugging it in. what's the trick? i'll address the manual/adapter issues in another post... james Dear James, The EV-5 requires no modification in order to use it with the Vortex. Set the knob on the left of the EV-5 to "0" and you will have full range control of all of the parameters in the Vortex. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:24 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 06:54:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmhah-0007kj-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:54:23 -0800 Message-Id: <9701211453.AA19789@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:38:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: vortex adapter and manual - help? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"HVoDC.A.bDH.rfN5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1713 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:54:23 -0800 X-UIDL: dee046228418e238fdf6b194147ec117 ---------- From: Loopers-Delight To: Loopers-Delight Subject: vortex adapter and manual - help? Date: Tuesday, January 21, 1997 6:46AM hi folks, as mentioned in my previous post, i just got a vortex w/out manual or accessories. my jamman sits silent and cold as its 9VAC lifesblood is sucked up by its new friend. i called lexicon to order the adapter today, got patched to the marketing guy's answering machine, and was told he would be at NAMM 'til thursday (which means i probably wouldn't get the goods for a couple weeks). i want to play with my toys!!! does anyone know of anywhere (besides lexicon) one can buy a 9V, 1 amp AC wall wart? why did they have to use 9V AC, anyway? so people would have no choice but to buy their special adapter? (there were some 9V, 780ma AC adapters at radio shack. anyone know if that's enough juice?) also, being manual-less is rather unpleasant. if someone, out of the sheer generosity of their heart, could take a couple minutes to scan it and email me some JPEGs (or 2-color GIFs, compressed TIFFs, whatever) i would be your slave forever. or, better idea: they could be posted on the looper's delight vortex page for others in a similar situation, or for people curious about what this thing does. also, if anyone has the vortex "application notes", i'm sure there are many vortex users who would love to see these posted on the page. no need for OCR or transcription, any legible scans will do. thanks in advance, james Dear James, Please provide me with the serial number of the Vortex and what items were missing from your purchase and I will get you what you are missing as well as your application notes. We recently have hired a new receptionist which woul explain why your call was transfered to the wrong extension. In the future you can contact me directly. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:27 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 07:06:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmhm7-0000j0-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:06:11 -0800 Message-Id: <20691.199701211503@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:03:17 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: New Lex ad Resent-Message-ID: <"uJDC_C.A.tg.drN5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1715 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:06:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e879f9242940511f270dd4ea10c8751 The new Lex processor - the MPX? - ad slogan is wonderful. "The MPX - it does everything you expect" Is this an attempt to distance the company from the unexpected Vortex, Greg? BTW, on a similar subject, is Lex going to expand its Web pages, Greg? It's a bit sparse at the moment (though I can understand if you're busy, with the move and all). I was hoping to check the stats on the Reflex (assuming you haven't dropped that as well). Finally, Matthias said: > A friend even told me, that he keeps practicing while driving, by > imaginating the sound and the fingering, and really, it helps! I read that, when he was a pilot, Steve Morse would practive while driving to/from work - put the car on cruise control, and play whilst steering with his knees.... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:31 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 08:01:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmidb-0004fV-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:01:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:55:23 -0500 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #9 To: Loopers-Delight Message-ID: <199701211055_MC2-FAD-E1F2@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"KBW7oB.A.8-D.DdO5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1717 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:01:27 -0800 X-UIDL: a2b363185ea75a559cfc0e06ea451446 Message text written by INTERNET:Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com >I don't think technique is a trap within itself or a trade off from creativity. I know what you mean by relying on stock licks or riffs being a trap, but I believe to express yourself as a musician you need to practice technique and develop skill. Only when you have mastered your instrument can you play from your inspiration.< I'm going to *completely* disagree with you here... I think this varies person by person. I look back to the music I wrote (& recorded on first album) way back when I first picked up the guitar and made a variety of very intentional efforts NOT to learn it in the *established* manner -- which I found in other instruments I had learned to be VERY confining. I was listening to a lot of Indian classical music at the time, and thus had a much different approach to tuning and technique, which resulted in some compositions which, although possibly naive, had a kind of purity and creativity to them that I *cannot* regain. Over the last however many years I have become a much better guitar player, but my compositions particularly for acoustic guitar have as a result become more and more conventional to my ears. Sometimes I yearn for the days when I knew virtually *nothing* about the guitar and randomly abused the instrument to make beautiful noise. This is just *my* experience. I don't want us to get into some kind of useless "technique vs. creativity" argument (which in of itself is the wrong conceptualization of the issue), particularly since we all lie at different points along that continuum. jj P.S. Hey, all of you, please accept my warmest thanks for your thoughts on all of these issues. I personally love to philosophize anyway, but especially when it's a topic that's either close to my heart or is troubling me in some way. Your thoughts have been both helpful and inspirational. I feel like I'm "home". Hugs to you all. From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:33 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 08:09:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmilW-0005Nj-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:09:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:03:10 -0500 (EST) From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <970121105246_1344758129@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Creative doldrums and compressors Resent-Message-ID: <"qWvck.A.MpE.LkO5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1718 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:09:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 5879bcad1bc480e2f8f783d4a22da800 Re: Creative doldrums I've read a lot of these entries with a great deal of interest. Personally, I'm not sure why a lover of music would want to be 'influence-less'. It seems to me that that would create more doldrums than it would remedy. I play professionally so giving it up for a year ain't an option, but as far as listening I think there can be too much emphasis placed on 1) why you listen to certain things and 2) what, specifically, you are to take from them for your own music. I thinks it's important to think of other music as something you love to hear and make no other demands on it. Let it work its magic on you. If it starts coming out heavily in your own work, let it. I think it's healthier to work through it than deny it. If you obsess about not sounding like Fripp, he's still got the grip on you, see? The key is to love but not yearn to possess. In music as in life, an important thing to try to learn... Personally, I would much rather hear someone play the 12-bar blues on acoustic guitar that really loves it rather than some guy with an arsenal of gear and all the looping savvy in the world who sounds like he doesn't love anything but himself. I think self-examination s very important for anyone, but it's very easy to fall into a trap of self-obsession. In many ways, I think it's a fallacy to "look" for your individuality. You already have it, just as you have a sense of community also. I think the key is to get out of the way and allow them both to do what they need to do. And what do we "do" in the meantime? I dunno...maybe, try to appreciate what we love and forgive what we don't. Just MHO, of course. There are as many answers to this as there are individuals. On a completely unrelated technical note, for seekers of the oft-sought TC Electronics Sustain/Para EQ pedal that have been unable to find one, I have some potentially encouraging news. I visited the TC booth at NAMM over the weekend and was introduced to another Danish company they've become affiliated with (exactly how the affiliation extends, I'm not sure, i.e., it might be just for marketing purposes) called Carl Martin. CM makes a compressor/Limiter pedal that is apparently modeled *somewhat* upon the old TC pedal. I didn't get to play it myself, so I don't want it to sound like too informed an endorsement, but I did listen to them demo it and I think it's definitely worth trying out when they start appearing at retailers (NAMM was their American debut - they said they should be out and around "very soon"). Cheers, Ken R From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:41 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 08:43:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmjIG-0000cb-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:43:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 11:36:40 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701211636.AA17167@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Creative doldrums and compressors Resent-Message-ID: <"P5kH2.A._QH.XCP5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1719 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:43:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 034dd516ab352c27763abc57d6ab2c27 >Re: Creative doldrums > >Personally, I would much rather hear someone play the 12-bar blues on >acoustic guitar that really loves it rather than some guy with an arsenal of >gear and all the looping savvy in the world who sounds like he doesn't love >anything but himself. Amen. >I think self-examination s very important for anyone, but it's very easy to >fall into a trap of self-obsession. In many ways, I think it's a fallacy to >"look" for your individuality. You already have it, just as you have a sense >of community also. I think the key is to get out of the way and allow them >both to do what they need to do. And what do we "do" in the meantime? I >dunno...maybe, try to appreciate what we love and forgive what we don't. Kind of sounds like the "wanting to go home" dilemma played out so clearly in the Wizard of Oz. Ultimately, we have the power to go where we need to. If we can stop running from ourselves, we can cultivate the Wizard Within, so to speak. We can see the parlor tricks (e.g. "arsenal of gear") for what they are, and discover our own ... well, I don't need to take the metaphor any further: you get the idea. Nice insights Ken, ringing true to me. Check out "Care of the Soul" by Thomas Moore. Ironically, paradoxically, it is the narcissist who is stuck on the external (e.g. "obsess about not sounding like Fripp") who cannot get enough of themselves. We've all seen it, and most of us musician types, I would wager, have more than our share of those narcissist/obsessive qualities. Some good wisdom emerging from this dialogue ... enjoying this forum. Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:42 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 08:45:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmjKH-0000qy-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:45:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:40:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970121114016_1012630912@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #9 Resent-Message-ID: <"zS-pIB.A.fa.HHP5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1720 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:45:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b28a6561bd5208ba3109e7e9f9c4202 jj: <> I've found I can regain that golden "beginner's mind" state of ignorant bliss by collecting devices that restructure/deconstruct/derange the guitar's basic sound and/or tuning. Best device so far (by a VERY wide margin): VG-8 (THIS is the box, btw, that seems to require a stereo looping implant!) Since it allows me to complete change the timbre, attack, and/or pitch of any note, from picking velocity or pedal control while remaining completely "live" and, for the most part, "guitar-like," i.e. no conversion delay (string scrapes, slapping, mutes, etc., all completely fair game), I'm not only inspired to attack the guitar in new ways, but even my old tricks and tired licks are reborn as jumping off places for new territory. This has become the most reliable way for me to invoke that exstasis that, to my great delight, has been the topic around here lately. It DOES feel like home! Much grass...i mean, Tanks, ya'll! dp From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:43 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 08:49:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmjNs-0001G3-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:49:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 11:46:08 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701211646.AA17275@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Lexicon MXP-1 Resent-Message-ID: <"VdZU4.A.b3.PLP5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1721 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:49:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 64507d652da1113a4113b4f6638206a3 Has anyone out there purchased or tried out the MXP-1? I'm curious to get some descriptions of the sound quality, subjective reactions to the unit as a whole. I understand it does have some morphing capabilities and some algorithms that are (exactly?) like those in Vortex. I'm particularly interested in the reverbs - how they might compare with, say, a Reflex or LXP-15. Mickey From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:52 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 09:39:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmkAu-0006OS-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:39:56 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:34:30 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Creativity and Technique To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701211234_MC1-F9F-1C4D@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"E3XYNB.A.VmF.C6P5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1722 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:39:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 203e69dac7cf3bfec3a9876de4adcf62 about creativity and the necessity of technique ... "Whatever technique you have on your instrument at any given moment is always good enough to say something. If you can't find the thing to say, that's what you've got to work on." (David Torn) I think that says it all in a nutshell. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never whistle while you pee) From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 10:49:57 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 10:25:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmktE-0003Xu-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:25:44 -0800 Message-Id: <9701211819.AA21503@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:08:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: New Lex ad To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"yYmc5.A.V1C.SkQ5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1723 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:25:44 -0800 X-UIDL: ba231e8e3b7e335431f2a597c70cf818 Michael stated: The new Lex processor - the MPX? - ad slogan is wonderful. "The MPX - it does everything you expect" And then asked: Is this an attempt to distance the company from the unexpected Vortex, Greg? BTW, on a similar subject, is Lex going to expand its Web pages, Greg? Dear Michael, Please do not ask me to explain where our ad copy comes from. If you had much experience with our LXP5 you would know even more about the unexpected We do plan on expanding our web page into pages in the springtime. We are still shipping the Reflex and I will gladly supply any information that you want (off of this list.) Please forward me your email address and/or fax # and I will have the information sent to you. Best regards, Greg Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:08 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 11:27:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmlqk-0001vI-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:27:14 -0800 Message-Id: <9701211857.AA21607@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:47:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Lexicon MXP-1 To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"_q4TlD.A.zIB.5bR5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1726 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:27:14 -0800 X-UIDL: afb52a7c07d91b8ea0d4362b4ffa798c Micky asked: Has anyone out there purchased or tried out the MXP-1? I'm curious to get some descriptions of the sound quality, subjective reactions to the unit as a whole. I understand it does have some morphing capabilities and some algorithms that are (exactly?) like those in Vortex. I'm particularly interested in the reverbs - how they might compare with, say, a Reflex or LXP-15. Mickey Dear Mickey et al, I'll stay off the list on this one except to answer Mickeys specific question regarding Reverb. The MPX1 offers a wider variety of reverbs than the REFLEX and the LXP15 and I doubt that many people will insist that the REFLEX or LXP15 sound better than the MPX1 Let me know if you have any questions. regards, Greg Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:03 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 11:07:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmlXU-00000g-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:07:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:03:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970121140418.2f6f8978@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: km15@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16), Cornell Modified Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kevin Miller Subject: RE: Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"bgjFzC.A.N_G.bMR5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1725 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:07:20 -0800 X-UIDL: b87f7f547575ce2c8f950dccb44144d9 At 12:34 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >about creativity and the necessity of technique ... > >"Whatever technique you have on your instrument at any given moment is >always good enough to say something. If you can't find the thing to say, >that's what you've got to work on." >(David Torn) > >I think that says it all in a nutshell. Sure does! I think many of us on this list were expressing _something_ shortly after picking up our chosen instrument, even if it was with a few chords. We knew (and still know) that we had a lot more to learn, but it's in our nature to speak thru our instruments whatever our level of technical expertise. I also don't think it's necessary to ignore our instrument or drop 2 grand to realign our approach (although I've certainly done these!)- I do think it's important to have fun and listen. We'll always have influences in our playing. They'll come out one way or the other, but when we're playing, we'll recognize things that are distinctly ours. These are worth taking note of and expanding on- in the process we'll develope more of an distinct identity, gain satisfaction, become better listeners etc. - at least that's how it works for me. I'd like to hear what others' experiences are- this is a great discussion! Kevin From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:09 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 11:37:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmm0H-0002u4-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:37:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Creative doldrums and compressors In-Reply-To: <970121105246_1344758129@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4NS6sB.A.yUC.unR5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1727 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:37:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 0d7537e823ec4f01ac8298b8a6cda65a On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 KRosser414@aol.com wrote: > On a completely unrelated technical note, for seekers of the oft-sought TC > Electronics Sustain/Para EQ pedal that have been unable to find one, I have > some potentially encouraging news. I visited the TC booth at NAMM over the > weekend and was introduced to another Danish company they've become > affiliated with (exactly how the affiliation extends, I'm not sure, i.e., it > might be just for marketing purposes) called Carl Martin. CM makes a > compressor/Limiter pedal that is apparently modeled *somewhat* upon the old > TC pedal. I didn't get to play it myself, so I don't want it to sound like > too informed an endorsement, but I did listen to them demo it and I think > it's definitely worth trying out when they start appearing at retailers (NAMM > was their American debut - they said they should be out and around "very > soon"). I tried the Carl Martin compressor at the TC booth, and it was quite nice, although I was dismayed that it doesn't do the famous Bill Frissel "squeeze" trick (wherein lowering the volume level on the guitar can result in the threshold of the compressor causing notes to fade in). I don't know the exact setting to use on this on either the TC or the Carl Martin, so there's a chance that it actually has provisions for that technique, but when I asked the guy at the booth about it, he didn't seem to know what I was talking about. However, it does have a ridiculously copious amount of dynamic squashing built in. It lists for about $250. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:19 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 13:26:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmnhi-0005nw-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:26:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:19:02 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970121161843_505104339@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: RE: Lexicon MXP-1 Resent-Message-ID: <"XzHr0B.A.z5E.eMT5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1729 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:26:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 8c4e3aecd75b1d49358489c860baa4bc Both Sound on Sound and EQ (or was it Mix?...I can never keep 'em straight) have done recent, positive "previews", and the brochure is actually informative (the one I got from Lex direct included a preset list-a la Eventide; nice). On paper at least, it seems a price/performance winner, and surely the audio quality must be serious--"it's a Lex!"--and it needs to be an M2000 killer. This box has some truly a-typical control and MIDI functions: a MIDI (not audio) arpeggiator, a/b glide/morph, ADR's and velocity envelopes that will output MIDI control data. Among the more intriguing of the 56 fx are Aerosol, Orbits, and Centrifuge 1 and 2, plus overdrive(!). Only obvious dissappointments I can see are: only 50 user locations (i'd fill that many in an afternoon), no card slot, and the LOOPER is MONO! For time-variant massaging of loops made elsewhere, tho, it's pretty attractive. I do wonder about that "extra internal slot" or whatever it is that I've heard was built in... Words to live by: "...when you can't be playing, read product literature, at least while in body." From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:18 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 13:24:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmngB-0005eA-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:24:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:19:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Lexicon Prime Time Delay Resent-Message-ID: <"wgDKkB.A.90E.zLT5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1728 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:24:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 1ca1777990c5bbf6f586a29c7f0535c9 Greetings! Does anybody have any experience with Lexicon's Prime Time Delay? A buddy of mine is selling one. Is it suitable for loopage? How much is it worth? Thanks! Oh....he's also got an Eventide 1745M.....which is a mystery to me. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:21 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 13:39:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmnug-0007CU-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:39:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:32:12 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: torn and fripp Resent-Message-ID: <"LP0EIB.A._EG.qXT5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1730 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:39:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 7089bf5f501b34eea4f8989bff34f668 neato says: in light of all the talk about fripp and torn lately, i find it fairly hilarious that in the recent guitar player poll(this months issue) torn has been voted #1 experimental guitarist over the #2 fripp! time to start "ignoring" both of them?haha cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:24 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 14:05:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmoJi-00027l-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:05:18 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701212200.OAA29487@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: creative isolation To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:00:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <14385.199701211045@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> from "Dr M. P. Hughes" at Jan 21, 97 10:45:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"auQ1vB.A.dgB.AyT5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1731 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:05:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 0afe151eeaf0cbf275cb088bdb9e83c9 > Paolo: > >I recently went through a stage where I felt Pat Metheny, the King > >Crimson players, Allan Holdsworth, John McLaughlin and Fred Frith (please > >don't be offended if I left out the name of your favorite guitarist) pretty > >much said everything I ever wanted to say on guitar so I stopped playing the > >guitar. I haven't played it seriously in almost a year now. > > That's a shame - just because one hears an eloguent speaker, who expresses > your views exactly, it doesn't require one to shut up or learn another > language because one feels one has nothing to say. There is a romantic That was one reason, but it wasn't the only one. I've always wanted to try other instruments and thus have been turning my attention to those avenues. At present, I've become much more interested in rhythm and texture than "singing through guitar". Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jan 21 23:38:49 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 21 17:37:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vmrce-0000qQ-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:37:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:31:02 -0500 (EST) From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <970121203022_1692074233@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Lex ad Resent-Message-ID: <"ivQpaD.A.UW.z4W5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1732 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:37:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 66f70c3efa9336cbe9c0d43bdaaad9d0 Mr. Phelps > Expains a bit perhaps about Los Angeles Freeways. > Dont try this at home kids! :-) Ahem, the conditions of L.A. freeways aside, for the record Mr. morse lived in Florida at the time! :-) From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:35 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 02:59:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn0PP-0006Qd-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:59:59 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC0829.36498340@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Guitar Center Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:57:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qi749C.A.f2F.-Gf5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1733 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:59:59 -0800 X-UIDL: c88b690474d72be6310b5c182b2595e7 I just received Guitar Center's "January Inventory Meltdown." On page 9, it lists the Lexicon Jamman on sale at the following Guitar Center branches for $199.66: - Detroit, MI - Southfield, MI - Chicago, IL - Twin Cities, MN The sale is on through January 31, 1997. Happy Looping, Mark Kata From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:43 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 04:32:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn1qf-0001Oo-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:32:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Alan.Maguire@mercer.ie Subject: Torn To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01IEIHXG7VAU8XRDBO@kira.team400.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"1MiYcD.A.eOB.Rhg5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1734 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:32:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 999a2feba03e6fa5093ebe183d0e168e Hi all, I'm new(ish) to this list so my query may be going over old ground... David Torn has cropped up on this list a lot, his stuff sounds interesting, and I'm thinking of buying What means solid Traveller, but call me old fashioned, I would still like to know what Im getting myself into before I part with the cash. I'm a fan of Fripp and strange guitar noises in general but I find some of his Soundscapes very monotonous. Does Torns music have a rhythmic element? Does it sound like real guitar, as opposed to the Mellotron\choir sounds that Fripp uses? Is the music primarily textural or are there lead parts? Are there any accompanying musicians? Is it recorded live or are there overdubs? Reply directly if you like...(alan.maguire@mercer.ie) Thanks in advance, Alan. From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:56 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 07:44:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn4qa-00033a-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:44:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32E628D2.7381@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:48:51 -0700 From: Paul Reply-To: pebatlan@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Guitar Center References: <14525.199701221518@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qqKhsC.A.odC.jSj5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1739 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:44:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 263dbca8737937b7e595464a32063bdc I hate to tell you guys but Guitar (K-Mart) Center blew out all their Lex product during the December sale - at least here on the West coast - I found a vortex squirreled away by a sales person that changed their mind - Call - they might have some units laying around without Power supplies - but remember the key Guitar Center words "I really can't sell it below my cost." Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > Does anyone know what GC's WWW address is? > > Do they still have any Vortices _anywhere_? I'm sure this has been > answered in the negative recently, but it's best to be sure.... I'm due to > visit N'Orlins in March, and I'd hate to think I missed out on that > deal.... > > Michael > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, > Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:47 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 06:57:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn46x-0007Tp-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:57:11 -0800 Message-Id: <13610.199701221454@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:54:00 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Creative doldrums and compressors Resent-Message-ID: <"GS8bQB.A.T3G.4oi5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1735 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:57:11 -0800 X-UIDL: be7ba9792d4436d5bbd4b0543fbe86c6 >I tried the Carl Martin compressor at the TC booth, and it was quite nice, >although I was dismayed that it doesn't do the famous Bill Frissel >"squeeze" trick (wherein lowering the volume level on the guitar can >result in the threshold of the compressor causing notes to fade in). I thought Frizell used a volume pedal for that. You can use a compressor to lose the attack of a signal by adjusting the "attack" parameter, but I'm not sure if that's level dependent (AFAIK). Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:53 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 07:25:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn4Y2-0001Ui-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:25:10 -0800 Message-Id: <14525.199701221518@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:18:26 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Guitar Center Resent-Message-ID: <"TttJKD.A.X9.z-i5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1737 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:25:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 0675bdf1fdd2bbb819e8876d06e22999 Does anyone know what GC's WWW address is? Do they still have any Vortices _anywhere_? I'm sure this has been answered in the negative recently, but it's best to be sure.... I'm due to visit N'Orlins in March, and I'd hate to think I missed out on that deal.... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:57 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 07:45:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn4s0-0003Bk-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:45:48 -0800 X-Sender: krevis@mail.blarg.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:41:19 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: krevis@blarg.net (Kurt Revis) Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Guitar Center Resent-Message-ID: <"o6Str.A.PeC.nSj5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1740 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:45:48 -0800 X-UIDL: d00cc2995f8605af91879965ac536e9c The Dr asks: >Does anyone know what GC's WWW address is? Go to http://www.musician.com and follow the links to "our sponsor". Subtle, huh? >Do they still have any Vortices _anywhere_? I'm sure this has been >answered in the negative recently, but it's best to be sure.... The supply seems to be drying up, yes. I had no luck with the GCs I called in the SF Bay area and Chicago. However, my brother in Houston managed to get them to order one for him, so they must have some sitting in a warehouse somewhere. (He's picking it up today, so we'll see if GC actually shipped it or if they screwed up.) So you might want to call the North Houston store and see what they can do for you. -- Kurt Revis This world is not my home krevis@blarg.net I'm just passing through From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:58:00 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 08:08:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn5Dc-0004yC-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:08:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:01:47 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Guitar Center Resent-Message-ID: <"1M93G.A.rIE.2nj5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1741 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:08:08 -0800 X-UIDL: dc84d24b9cb0060118768a1a7cf1137e >I just received Guitar Center's "January Inventory Meltdown." On page 9, >it lists the Lexicon Jamman on sale at the following Guitar Center >branches for $199.66: neato says: careful...i called the boston store after reading a post here about this last week and was told that a system wide search showed only demo and open units available for that price.... -if anyone finds contrary please post cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:58:01 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 08:15:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn5Kx-0005dc-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:15:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:10:42 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Creative doldrums and compressors In-Reply-To: <13610.199701221454@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nL2VF.A.F5E.Nwj5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1742 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:15:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 4aadba14d31654f1f4039367a1983641 On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > >I tried the Carl Martin compressor at the TC booth, and it was quite nice, > >although I was dismayed that it doesn't do the famous Bill Frissel > >"squeeze" trick (wherein lowering the volume level on the guitar can > >result in the threshold of the compressor causing notes to fade in). > > I thought Frizell used a volume pedal for that. You can use a compressor > to lose the attack of a signal by adjusting the "attack" parameter, but I'm > not sure if that's level dependent (AFAIK). Bill Frisell uses a volume pedal to take the attack off of notes. You can do it with a compressor (the TC Sustainer is terrific for it), but it doesn't give the same degree of control that a good volume pedal does. I've found that the best way to do the Frisell sort of thing is to use light compression just to even out the notes, and have a volume pedal after the compressor. I've always loved how he uses the volume pedal and a bit of echo to build chords, where different notes in the chord have different attacks. Then again, I love just about everything he does. Frisell is one of those rare few who make magic with just about every note they play, and one of even fewer who don't sound like a refined imitation of someone else. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:51 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 07:13:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn4N3-0000h8-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:13:49 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199701221514.AA085586082@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Guitar Center To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:14:42 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: <01BC0829.36498340@mark.asisoftware.com> from "Mark Kata" at Jan 22, 97 05:57:51 am Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"MN-58.A.pb.-3i5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1736 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:13:49 -0800 X-UIDL: a6651d4bc9079fa45a64c269e94bdc0d > > I just received Guitar Center's "January Inventory Meltdown." On page = > 9, it lists the Lexicon Jamman on sale at the following Guitar Center = > branches for $199.66: > > - Detroit, MI > - Southfield, MI > - Chicago, IL > - Twin Cities, MN > > The sale is on through January 31, 1997. > > Happy Looping, > Mark Kata > Mark, my friend, you just saved me $50.00. I put a JM on layaway last week. -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:58:02 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 08:49:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn5rd-0000n9-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:49:29 -0800 Message-Id: <9701221635.AA24579@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:25:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"ddUnaD.A.bzG.yFk5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1743 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:49:29 -0800 X-UIDL: ad801ac270de06440c25837a8cd01717 Does anyone know what GC's WWW address is? Do they still have any Vortices _anywhere_? I'm sure this has been answered in the negative recently, but it's best to be sure.... I'm due to visit N'Orlins in March, and I'd hate to think I missed out on that deal.... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb Please make sure that any product that you purchase works properly prior to leaving the states. Lexicon only offers a domestic warranty on product sold within the US and in the rare event that you have any problems it may prove to cost more in shipping and/or repair charges than the cost of the unit at the blowout price! Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com Please let me know if you have any questions or From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:57:55 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 07:37:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn4kA-0002WJ-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:37:42 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199701221536.AA102477415@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Guitar Center To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:36:54 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: <14525.199701221518@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> from "Dr M. P. Hughes" at Jan 22, 97 03:18:26 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"qYL1rD.A.I_B.1Mj5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1738 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:37:42 -0800 X-UIDL: afd8d25f69f38304268d3fac60a26617 > > Does anyone know what GC's WWW address is? > > Do they still have any Vortices _anywhere_? I'm sure this has been > answered in the negative recently, but it's best to be sure.... I'm due to > visit N'Orlins in March, and I'd hate to think I missed out on that > deal.... > ONe of the GC's in CHicago was selling Vortex units as 'closeouts' and 'opened' units. They still had a few as of Friday. -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:58:05 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 09:16:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn6Hb-00034p-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:16:19 -0800 Message-Id: <16731.199701221700@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:00:06 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ Resent-Message-ID: <"mCCqX.A.JnB.oek5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1744 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:16:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 7225bcc28598c562256ca8ac52eaf906 Greg: >Please make sure that any product that you purchase works properly prior to >leaving the states. Lexicon only offers a domestic warranty on product sold >within the US and in the rare event that you have any problems it may prove >to cost more in shipping and/or repair charges than the cost of the unit at >the blowout price! I don't know if you heard about Olivier's problems in this respect (with a Vortex sent to France). The Vortex costs £250 ($400) at the moment in the UK (the Reflex is $650+ !!) which is just a bit more than over there..... :( so the temptation of getting one from over your side of the pond is big. Would it be possible to order a unit and have it mailed to Lexicon for a once-over/service? I could then get it shipped to my hotel when it's been checked out. This isn't to say I'm garuanteeing getting one, but I like to know my options... Michael PS >Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I >can do for you. Doe you write this out each mail, or is it in your sig file? ;) Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:58:16 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 09:44:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn6jF-000642-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:44:53 -0800 Message-Id: <9701221731.AA25111@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:21:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199.66 @ To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"fJdKPB.A.aKE.D6k5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1746 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:44:53 -0800 X-UIDL: bfe16ca760a6df14c76fb570078c8f5f Greg: >Please make sure that any product that you purchase works properly prior to >leaving the states. Lexicon only offers a domestic warranty on product sold >within the US and in the rare event that you have any problems it may prove >to cost more in shipping and/or repair charges than the cost of the unit at >the blowout price! >I don't know if you heard about Olivier's problems in this respect > (with a >Vortex sent to France). The Vortex costs £250 ($400) at the moment > in the >UK (the Reflex is $650+ !!) which is just a bit more than over there..... Olivier's problem is the exact reason why I mentioned this. Please do not get me wrong, this is a rare situation, I just hate surprises of this sort. >Would it be possible to order a unit and have it mailed to Lexicon >for a >once-over/service? We prefer to service equipment that has a problem, but if you wanted us to look at a piece the turnaround time that we quote is 2 weeks. >>Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything > that I >>can do for you. >Doe you write this out each mail, or is it in your sig file? ;) I prefer not to be tied to any sig file so everything I write is manual :>) Please let me know if there is anything that I can do for you or if you have any questions. Best regards, Greg Hogan Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-288-0499 From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:58:07 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 09:29:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn6Ua-0004RJ-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:29:44 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:21:02 -0500 From: "Janet R. Underhill" <105054.352@compuserve.com> Subject: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch To: Loopers Message-ID: <199701221221_MC2-FC2-B786@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"azcspD.A.KeD.bzk5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1745 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:29:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 55ec0e8d98bceb163a3066db25e7b9f2 Hi, A friend wants to know: Has anyone used or have knowledge of using a digetec ground control or any other midi foot switch with an Oberheim echoplex digital pro? Thanks, Janet 105054.352@compuserve.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 09:58:15 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 09:43:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn6hh-0005tD-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:43:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:37:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970122123745.2247cfac@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: km15@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16), Cornell Modified Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kevin Miller Subject: Re: Creative doldrums and compressors Resent-Message-ID: <"nKsEFC.A.K7E.SBl5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1747 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:43:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 63efa1de262995fb4466b47451ae149c >> >I tried the Carl Martin compressor at the TC booth, and it was quite nice, >> >although I was dismayed that it doesn't do the famous Bill Frissel >> >"squeeze" trick (wherein lowering the volume level on the guitar can >> >result in the threshold of the compressor causing notes to fade in). >Bill Frisell uses a volume pedal to take the attack off of notes. You >can do it with a compressor (the TC Sustainer is terrific for it), but >it doesn't give the same degree of control that a good volume pedal >does. Frisell has said in interviews that people misunderstand what he was doing with his devices. My impression is that he used the "squeeze" trick mentioned above to fade into the notes, and the volume pedal to extend the notes. When I tried this myself, voila! instant Frisellification, including: > where different notes in the chord >have different attacks. I get a lot more control over these kinds of attacks with the Sustainer and soft/hard picking (guitar volume backed off) than with volume pedal alone, but I've practiced the technique a lot ( I don't normally sound like Frisell, I just love the effect) and I may not have the best volume pedal (some Fender jobbie). Of course, for certain kinds of fade-ins, there's no substitute for a volume pedal. ( Have I used enough parentheses in this paragraph?) It's possible that I misunderstood what he said he was doing, but now that Frisell has put aside his gizmos, I guess we're talking history here... Then again, I love just about everything he >does. Frisell is one of those rare few who make magic with just about >every note they play Amen, Dave- he's one of a kind. Kevin From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:22:06 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 18:15:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnEho-0004Oy-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:15:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32E6583D.731E@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:11:11 +0000 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Compressors? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JaCSIB.A.bpD.1is5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1758 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:15:56 -0800 X-UIDL: a883bbbf6dccb898f04d52614eabd276 The Man Himself wrote: > > 'Lo folks -- > > I'm in the market for a compressor, and was wondering what you could > recommend. I'm intending to use it before any processing, and have it in > mind primarily to even out levels for the Echoplex and to reign in the > dynamic peaks that result from the EBow, so mono is fine. I'm also > interested in messing with compression for its own sake. > > So I'd be interested in hearing what you all recommend. I've tried the > famous TC and was mightily impressed, but I can't count on being able to > find one. I'm interested in the Alesis NanoCompressor, which is both > cost-efficient and (by the looks of things) very well-equipped, though I > haven't tried one yet. > > Any suggestions as far as what items I should check out will be greatly > appreciated. Sorry if this taxes the bounds of topicality, > > --Andre I have an aphex 651 expressor compressor. This is the best mono compressor that I have heard for under $400. Works great with bass and guitar and everything else. This is a one space rack unit with balanced in/outs From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 11:23:21 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 10:56:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn7qx-0005gr-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:56:55 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:45:40 -0500 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark) Message-Id: <199701221845.NAA29954@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: digest problems X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"psoD0B.A.7nD.R7l5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1748 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:56:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 20871032f421ecce53569b4560e29f41 There appears to be a problem with the digest. All of the posts are listed on the first attachment but only half of them are really attached. The last digest listed 27 posts in the header but actually only had the first 10. What up? Clark From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:20:53 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 11:38:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn8VZ-0002L8-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:38:53 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:28:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, cwb@platinum.com (Clark) From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: digest problems Resent-Message-ID: <"ZbmzRB.A.qaB.Gsm5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1749 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:38:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 272cf62426d9aa6b9f982ff4ae049b30 >There appears to be a problem with the digest. All of the >posts are listed on the first attachment but only half of >them are really attached. The last digest listed 27 posts >in the header but actually only had the first 10. What up? > >Clark hmm. I received it all just fine. Are you sure your mail program isn't dividing it up into two parts? Or dumping part because of the length? I use a slightly old Eudora that divides them in half all the time. Anyone else have a problem? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:20:58 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 12:02:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vn8sj-0004xE-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:02:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:58:27 -0800 (PST) From: "A.S.P." To: Loophedz Subject: Best Echoplex Deals? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SVIdp.A.ZME.iFn5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1750 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:02:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 8cfad8482a62cb442b84fdac3ad7b242 Who has the best deal on the Oberheim Echoplex at the moment? Romeo ----- ms20@serv.net From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:21:12 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 13:25:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnAAp-0005Wu-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:25:35 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9701221618.ZM15653@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:18:34 -0500 In-Reply-To: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com "Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #11" (Jan 21, 8:42am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"PVPIhD.A.ZcE.1Qo5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1751 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:25:35 -0800 X-UIDL: fddf2a6a0994dbd99e73ae8a506c518d greets, i seem to recall folk on the list discussing the qualities of optimus 7 speakers for mixing. does this ring a ding? I checked some out at the local shop yestiddy and ! not only were they 79.95 each, but the closest thing is the optimus pro x7 and optimus pro x77(129.95) interest is due to the need for a pair of spreches in the A-B realm. can someone give me the word on dat? are the optimie worth it? collier (currently using crown ps-400 and EV sentry 100 monitors) From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:21:15 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 13:38:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnANX-0006rL-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:38:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 16:33:42 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701222133.AA03577@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"SKij5D.A.L9F.0eo5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1752 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:38:43 -0800 X-UIDL: e6a1dc33e3aec0cd424b6d432d49569d >greets, >i seem to recall folk on the list discussing the qualities of optimus 7 >speakers for mixing. does this ring a ding? > >I checked some out at the local shop yestiddy and ! not only were they 79.95 >each, but the closest thing is the optimus pro x7 and optimus pro x77(129.95) > >interest is due to the need for a pair of spreches in the A-B realm. >can someone give me the word on dat? > >are the optimie worth it? > >collier >(currently using crown ps-400 and EV sentry 100 monitors) > > I know nothing about using cheap speakers as monitors, but the idea is appealing. I'm about to spend ~$800 on a pair of Event1 20/20bas biamped monitors (flat and powerful over entire spectrum). It would be nice to have a 2nd cheap pair for doing that A-B thing. Anyone else have good experience with using consumer "hi-fi" speakers for mixdown? Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:21:45 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 15:26:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnC3S-0002LF-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:26:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:13:13 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Compressors? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SEYJ1C.A.3kB.WCq5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1753 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:26:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 050b4136815be722faba37600a609e64 'Lo folks -- I'm in the market for a compressor, and was wondering what you could recommend. I'm intending to use it before any processing, and have it in mind primarily to even out levels for the Echoplex and to reign in the dynamic peaks that result from the EBow, so mono is fine. I'm also interested in messing with compression for its own sake. So I'd be interested in hearing what you all recommend. I've tried the famous TC and was mightily impressed, but I can't count on being able to find one. I'm interested in the Alesis NanoCompressor, which is both cost-efficient and (by the looks of things) very well-equipped, though I haven't tried one yet. Any suggestions as far as what items I should check out will be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this taxes the bounds of topicality, --Andre From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:21:47 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 15:45:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnCLp-0004KK-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:45:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:39:09 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Compressors? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-C0P9D.A.yeD.rUq5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1754 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:45:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 08464b81f68920cb62437ad40dfec7f5 I don't think it's off-topic at all. When I switched from primarily electric to primarily acoustic looping, I suddenly had a severe problem with overloading the front end of my digital effects. I've tried putting the TC in the path of my piezo pickup, but so far not so good. I'll probably build myself a tube compressor, more because I'm currently into homemade tube stuff than because I think it'll be great (actually, it'll probably be a combination compressor/preamp, because I'm less than thrilled with my noisy Fisher preamp). Personally, I'd say avoid guitar-oriented compressors completely and look for a brand-name studio compressor. Excellent rackmount models from dbx, Rane, and others are easy enough to find. Make it the very first thing in your signal chain, unless you need a preamp/buffer first. In particular, compressors work lots better BEFORE your distortion device rather than after, where they amplify all that noise along with the signal. Studio compressors are smoother, quieter, and more flexible than guitar compressors. The only guitar compressor I've ever really liked is the TC. All the rest are hissy, pumping tone-squashers. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:21:50 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 15:59:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnCa2-0005rs-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:59:46 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701222351.PAA10621@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Torn To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <01IEIHXG7VAU8XRDBO@kira.team400.ie> from "Alan.Maguire@mercer.ie" at Jan 22, 97 12:02:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XV5x4D.A.IxE.4gq5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1755 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:59:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 1cdf0c68651da65124d076f70be2abc3 > Does Torns music have a rhythmic element? Absolutely! > Does it sound like real guitar, as opposed to the Mellotron\choir > sounds that Fripp uses? He's not known for using guitar synth, although he did mention an idea 10 years ago that sounds very similar in principle to that embodied in the Roland VG8 today. > Is the music primarily textural or are there lead parts? Both! ^_^ > Are there any accompanying musicians? Sometimes. He's played in a variety of group contexts. > Is it recorded live or are there overdubs? He doesn't stick to either extreme. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:21:54 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 17:07:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnDdI-00054g-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:07:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:45:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199701230045.QAA04937@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch Cc: 105054.352@compuserve.com Resent-Message-ID: <"PsfY9.A.kOE.Fir5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1756 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:07:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 910738a8bf6b190e48fc7ab899996b05 >Has anyone used or have knowledge of using a digetec ground control or any >other midi foot switch with an Oberheim echoplex digital pro? > janet, i have a digital music corp ground control i'm using with my echoplex. unfortunately, for most echoplex functions, the ground control is useless (i realized this after having spent a couple hours programming it for use with the echoplex). firstly, and most significantly, since the GC is meant mainly for guitarists to use to change patches on their midi-controllable effects, it so "intelligently" filters out redundant messages (it won't send the same program change twice in a row). the idea is that if you're on, say, effect patch 29 and you select it again, you won't hear the audible "click" of reloading the patch. that's a great idea for simple effects patch switching, but it SUCKS for us loopers. any echoplex pedal button that needs to be pushed twice in a row (record, overdub, multiply, insert, mute, next loop) is useless unless you happen to want to use one of the famous "alternate endings", which i usually don't use. another big problem for most people is that the GC sends out program change messages, while the echoplex needs to receive note or continuous control messages. i made a max patch that translates the message types, so it's not a problem for me. finally, any command that requires you to hold down a button on the echoplex pedal (such as holding down "record" to erase a loop) is useless with the ground control. the ground control sends out a one-shot program change when you press the pedal, it doesn't matter how long you hold it down. in spite of all these limitations, i still use my ground control to select loops 1-9, which is better than having to hit "next loop" on the echoplex pedal several times to select the relevant loop. james From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:21:56 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 17:09:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnDfJ-0005JU-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:09:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:57:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199701230057.TAA07607@server1.mich.com> X-Sender: veatch@mich.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Jef Veatch Subject: Re: Lexicon Jamman on sale for $199. Resent-Message-ID: <"1QtxZD.A.JSE.jir5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1757 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:09:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 79ac2098ecc0dd74ee7ea26ab9e9e22d I was actually lucky enough to get one at this price. (I got the Vortex at $150 last month, to :-) I called the Detroit store the day after i received the flyer (sold out) and also the Southfield store. Southfield had one demo unit left (the one i got), and apparently aren't planning on getting more. All i can say is that it's cool to be looping with more than 1.5 seconds of delay... :-) From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:22:07 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 18:29:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnEuV-0005j5-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:29:03 -0800 Message-ID: <32E6BFB1.29DE@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:32:33 -0700 From: Shelley Reply-To: spoticha@earthlink.net Organization: STPP X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: antonc@earthlink.net CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Compressors? References: <32E6583D.731E@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fBuxkB.A.g0E.Eus5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1759 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:29:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 06b7617b7c195a758b6a3b9afdb99d4e I just picked up a dbx 260 compressor gate from K-Mart (guitar center). It works fine, good hard and soft knee compression and gate, Also like the fact that the interface is very intuitive, unlike any of my Lex or Oberheim products (sigh). Set me back $169.-- versus $199 for the Alesis product.... At that price, makes the nanocompressor seem way overpriced - besides who really needs half spece rack efgfects anyways... Anton Chovit wrote: > > The Man Himself wrote: > > > > 'Lo folks -- > > > > I'm in the market for a compressor, and was wondering what you could > > recommend. I'm intending to use it before any processing, and have it in > > mind primarily to even out levels for the Echoplex and to reign in the > > dynamic peaks that result from the EBow, so mono is fine. I'm also > > interested in messing with compression for its own sake. > > > > So I'd be interested in hearing what you all recommend. I've tried the > > famous TC and was mightily impressed, but I can't count on being able to > > find one. I'm interested in the Alesis NanoCompressor, which is both > > cost-efficient and (by the looks of things) very well-equipped, though I > > haven't tried one yet. > > > > Any suggestions as far as what items I should check out will be greatly > > appreciated. Sorry if this taxes the bounds of topicality, > > > > --Andre > > I have an aphex 651 expressor compressor. This is the best mono > compressor that I have heard for under $400. Works great with bass and > guitar and everything else. This is a one space rack unit with balanced > in/outs From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:22:09 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 18:59:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnFOD-0000qe-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:59:45 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:58:24 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: Re: digest problems Resent-Message-ID: <"SX178.A.qd.SNt5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1760 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:59:45 -0800 X-UIDL: a6adaf3aa0e442db12cc1e2bf6fe96b2 Kim , you said earlier today: >>There appears to be a problem with the digest. All of the >>posts are listed on the first attachment but only half of >>them are really attached. The last digest listed 27 posts >>in the header but actually only had the first 10. What up? >> >>Clark > > >hmm. > >I received it all just fine. Are you sure your mail program isn't dividing >it up into two parts? Or dumping part because of the length? I use a >slightly old Eudora that divides them in half all the time. > >Anyone else have a problem? > >kim I don't get the digest myself but I was at the LD web page the other day reading some of the back Digests and I seem to recall there were several that just stopped in mid-digest. Has any one else noticed this? Ed From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:22:16 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 20:42:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnGzP-0002fs-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:42:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199701230442.XAA03118@mx06.erols.com> From: "Todd Pafford" To: Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:37:58 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XVRDlB.A.UHC.vsu5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1761 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:42:15 -0800 X-UIDL: a165217abda6e7f84be583532b393391 While I have little experience with mixing/recording, I have always heard (and heard the wonderful result of) of using crappy speakers to mix an album/cd/dat/whatever. The logic behind it being that if you can engineer the sound to sound good on crappy speakers, then it'll sound GREAT on good speakers. The perfect example that comes to mind was a band that I was really good friends with. When mixing down their self produced first album all monitoring was done out these little 4 inch numbers that looked like they were pulled out of any portable stereo. At the end of the process, the tape was sounding pretty damn good considering the speakers, but when popped in the house stereo it sounded incredible....and still to this day I think it's one of the best mixed albums I've ever heard, especially in headphones. :) Perhaps I'm off base with this since, to be honest, I don't know what A-B process you're referring to. So take these words with a grain of salt. :) My own humble opinion, Todd P. ---------- > From: Emmanuel Angel > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers > Date: Wednesday, January 22, 1997 4:33 PM > > > I know nothing about using cheap speakers as monitors, but the idea > is appealing. I'm about to spend ~$800 on a pair of Event1 20/20bas > biamped monitors (flat and powerful over entire spectrum). It would > be nice to have a 2nd cheap pair for doing that A-B thing. > > Anyone else have good experience with using consumer "hi-fi" speakers > for mixdown? > > Mickey From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:22:20 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 22:05:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnII8-0002ac-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:05:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:55:34 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers In-Reply-To: <199701230442.XAA03118@mx06.erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2IZs6D.A.aGC.u7v5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1763 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:05:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 310d1baf0e65f5ca01016a3a330a5123 It's standard practice for any serious studio to have a low-fi pair of speakers wired into the board for reference. The reasoning is that you shouldn't try to mix optimally for a high-end pair of flat-response studio reference monitors, because 99% of the people who listen to the recording aren't going to have access to that. Most records are engineered to sound good on middle-of-the-road equipment, but it's a good idea to use a boom box or comparable speakers to find out what it'll sound like, since that's the primary point of reference for a lot of people. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Jan 22 23:22:19 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 22:04:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnIH7-0002Te-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:04:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:00:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cking@xsite.net Subject: Digest Version Resent-Message-ID: <"YjYfm.A.m4B.z5v5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1762 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:04:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 7403e8fd7874f4dbbd22572e0ab5a3e1 Hello all. I am new to the list. I am receiving all the regular/single posts' as well as the "digest" version, however the digest version only has one post as well!?????? Curt King cking@xsite.net Studio Zro Chicago,USA, Earth <><><><><><><><> "Taste is the enemy of art" From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 00:53:07 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 22 23:53:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnJyE-0003li-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:53:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:49:02 -0500 (EST) From: RandomLFO@aol.com Message-ID: <970123014844_1077200411@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman Zip ram Resent-Message-ID: <"oaqZpD.A.oQD.0gx5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1764 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:53:14 -0800 X-UIDL: d27196845795a702c62c5ce2bdb4d31f Status: O X-Status: I just purchased a Jamman, and I'm seeking the best buy on the Zip ram. If anyone has a good lead, please email me. Thanks, Marc From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 00:57:45 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 00:57:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnKyW-0000HX-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:57:36 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:52:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Digest Version Resent-Message-ID: <"tQEL0C.A.UG.Bey5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1765 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:57:36 -0800 X-UIDL: da4c4b53dfce988e7dbb18ededad0687 At 12:00 AM 1/23/97, cking@xsite.net wrote: >Hello all. I am new to the list. I am receiving all the regular/single >posts' as well as the "digest" version, however the digest version only has >one post as well!?????? > Well now that's a total mystery. You're definitely not on the digest subscription list. You get each post twice, from different sources? Can you forward those to me by private mail, with the headers so I can see it? I checked out the problem with the archive on the web site that Ed mentioned, and did find a couple that were screwed up. I think I'm guilty there; probably was falling asleep while putting them together and uploading it. If anyone else notices problems there let me know. I'll try to fix those some day after I dig out from under all the stuff that everyone on the planet waited til I was away at NAMM to send to me. Not to mention the fripp orgy y'all had that I haven't even begun to look at... A couple people who are subscribed to the digest version of the list have received only half of the last couple issues. I receive those as email just the same as everyone else, and I got them fine. If anyone else has this problem, let me know. I'm trying to figure it out now. Also, if anyone has any idea what might have caused this please speak up! Also if anyone works at netscape, please tell Marc Andreesen or whoever the hell it is that you can't just go changing the way email works without warning the rest of us first. Do they think they're microsoft or something? (If you're using netscape 4.0, or communicator, be prepared to hear a lot of complaining about all the html garbage attached to the end of your mail.) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:00:45 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 01:09:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnL9k-00010z-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:09:12 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:04:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch Resent-Message-ID: <"-bDRWC.A.I1.Xpy5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1766 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:09:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 857b8274b3eb1daa2bd773adf239e640 At 12:21 PM 1/22/97, Janet R. Underhill wrote: >Hi, > >A friend wants to know: > >Has anyone used or have knowledge of using a digetec ground control or any >other midi foot switch with an Oberheim echoplex digital pro? > Check out the Echoplex footpedal tutorial on the web site. It has a bunch of stuff on midi pedals. Plus, it's a great read! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:00:47 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 01:17:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnLHP-0001Qv-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:17:07 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:11:59 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Resent-Message-ID: <"9s1T.A.xNB.Fwy5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1767 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:17:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 7afa8d3b75ad464d218909b65d3027b0 At 7:41 PM 1/11/97, James Reynolds wrote: >one more newbie question: will the legendary "upgrade" be just a rom chip >that can be bought at a store and user-installed? or is there some kind of >magical ceremony that must be performed by a qualified tech/priest? This is from a thousand posts or so ago, but I'm a little behind.... Yes, it would be a couple of eproms that plug into sockets, in place of the ones that are there. Piece of cake! And based on meetings I had at NAMM, I'd say the echofuture is looking pretty good. We'll see that upgrade yet! >thanks for the help, kim! your welcome... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:00:48 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 02:17:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnMDu-0004Yz-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:17:34 -0800 Message-Id: <29611.199701231014@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:14:20 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Compressors? Resent-Message-ID: <"hG8MhC.A.o8D.unz5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1768 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:17:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 716fd4719177532a55e27dd79573c900 >I just picked up a dbx 260 compressor gate from K-Mart (guitar center). It >works fine, good hard and soft knee compression and gate, Also like the fact >that the interface is very intuitive, unlike any of my Lex or Oberheim >products >(sigh). Set me back $169.-- versus $199 for the Alesis product.... At that >price, >makes the nanocompressor seem way overpriced - besides who really needs >half spece rack efgfects anyways... Speaking of which, any comments on the Boss 1/2-rack Compressor-Limiter-Gate produced about the same time as the SE50? There's one going used in town. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:00:56 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 02:54:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnMnK-0005rb-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:54:10 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:51:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199701231051.CAA00439@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch Resent-Message-ID: <"nY4CJD.A.BZF.lL05y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1769 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:54:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 71e425582c72f33630c5aa969c3784e2 ed drake just sent me an email describing how the current software for the digital music corp ground control (version 2.3 or 2.4) does not filter redundant program change messages, and allows sending of continuous control values 0 or 127, but still doesn't allow you to "hold" and "release" a button. the part about not filtering redundant messages is good news for someone like me, who uses a max patch to convert a single program change message into a midi note with a set duration. for normal people, it seems to me that the ground control would still not be useful for directly controlling the echoplex. each "button press" received by the echoplex must begin with an "on" (note velocity or continuous controller value > 0) and end with an "off" (velocity or controller value = 0). even if you had set the GC to send continuous controller values, you would have to use a pair of buttons for each echoplex function. you would have to hit the pair quickly in sequence if you didn't want the echoplex to interpret it as a "long" button press (eg, if the two record messages are sent too far apart you erase your carefully crafted loop... unless you set RecordMode to "sus"). kim's "echoplex footpedal tutorial" explains all this much more eloquently. check it out: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html james From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:00:58 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 04:19:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnO7z-0000od-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:19:35 -0800 Message-Id: <2431.199701231216@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:16:58 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Resent-Message-ID: <"t2MFLC.A.dq.Ib15y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1770 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:19:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 0428868ab353ea3b851f8f98ea1ebb92 First up, thank you Greg for the Reflex data. Please thank ms Ciccone and ask her if she's related to Madonna. I know she probably gets asked this all the time, but I'm curious. Secondly, a couple of questions about resonators: (i) Are the resonators in the Reflex and Vortex the same? (ii) The details say that these "simulate the acoustic effects of multi-stringed instruments". What does that mean in practice? Will it make my guitar more violin/cello - like? Thanks all, Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:00:59 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 04:44:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnOWS-0001dy-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:44:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 07:32:18 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9701231232.AA29411@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"GZ0euC.A.2bB.6y15y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1771 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:44:52 -0800 X-UIDL: f7c7d06bdb87ecc524a37591024fc8d4 ----- Begin Included Message ----- From: "Todd Pafford" To: Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:37:58 -0500 While I have little experience with mixing/recording, I have always heard (and heard the wonderful result of) of using crappy speakers to mix an album/cd/dat/whatever. The logic behind it being that if you can engineer the sound to sound good on crappy speakers, then it'll sound GREAT on good speakers. The perfect example that comes to mind was a band that I was really good friends with. When mixing down their self produced first album all monitoring was done out these little 4 inch numbers that looked like they were pulled out of any portable stereo. At the end of the process, the tape was sounding pretty damn good considering the speakers, but when popped in the house stereo it sounded incredible....and still to this day I think it's one of the best mixed albums I've ever heard, especially in headphones. :) Perhaps I'm off base with this since, to be honest, I don't know what A-B process you're referring to. So take these words with a grain of salt. :) My own humble opinion, Todd P. --------------------------------------------------- Are you serious, or is this a joke? If I engineer a recording so that it sounds great on a pair of Coby 5" speakers that I purchased at the local street vendor, then the sound will obviously be compromised for any normal to high quality speaker. If I have a speaker with a crappy tweeter and manufacture the sound so that it is "great", I would have to tweak the sound in ways that would cause it to sound ridiculous on a VMPS water-cooled 8 way speaker. From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 02:04:52 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 10:48:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnUCP-0004RX-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:48:33 -0800 Message-ID: <32E75DB9.7F04@interaccess.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:47:05 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Reflex/Vortex Resonators References: <10419.199701231729@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JYzfLC.A.PnD.uE75y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1777 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:48:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 549b45858526112b43dd34da71232720 Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform > transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter > to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? I've tried that w/ a GSP2101 and the results weren't that great, as I could still distinguish the octave tone as separate from the guitar tone. I do like using the pitch shifter or audio arpeggiator (a delay w/ pitch shift in the feedback loop) with 0 tones of pitch shift to thicken the tone. (do I dare say that it makes it a bit frippish? ;) I find using the Ebow is a great way to generate octave harmonics, and fiddle w/ the tone in general. Jim From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:01:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 05:04:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnOp1-0002S4-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:04:03 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970123080116.0068eb94@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: floyd@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:01:20 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Floyd Miller Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nNHi-B.A.aJC.aE25y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1772 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:04:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 0228ac1997fdf89e75dba2b9625eeef1 At 01:11 AM 1/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 7:41 PM 1/11/97, James Reynolds wrote: >>one more newbie question: will the legendary "upgrade" be just a rom chip Before I get tooo excited, what is so legendary abot this upgrade? What will it do? **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:01:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 07:34:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnRAX-0001tw-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:34:25 -0800 Message-Id: <9701231532.AA27443@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:22:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foo To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"n17f6C.A.efB.wQ45y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1773 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:34:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 174c3880889b9fdc88770e8bef3c9a6d james said about the Digital Music Corporation Ground Control: "firstly, and most significantly, since the GC is meant mainly for guitarists to use to change patches on their midi-controllable effects, it so "intelligently" filters out redundant messages (it won't send the same program change twice in a row). the idea is that if you're on, say, effect patch 29 and you select it again, you won't hear the audible "click" of reloading the patch." Digital Music Corporation offers an upgrade for the Ground Control which allows you to send 2 program changes at once. This was done to accommodate the JAMMANs MIDI function but I would imagine it will work just as well with the echoplex. Best regards, Greg Hogan From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:01:20 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 07:50:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnRQW-00039R-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:50:56 -0800 Message-Id: <9701231549.AA27576@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:39:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foo To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"BpH-KC.A.BqC.5f45y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1774 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:50:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 80c6d76469cbc3af0cc09a5a89e7baba What I said: Digital Music Corporation offers an upgrade for the Ground Control which allows you to send 2 program changes at once. This was done to accommodate the JAMMANs MIDI function but I would imagine it will work just as well with the echoplex." Best regards, Greg Hogan What I meant (as well as what james has already pointed out): There is an upgrade for the Ground Control which allows you to send the same program change message twice in a row. From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:01:24 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 08:15:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnRoR-0005Dj-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:15:39 -0800 Message-Id: <9701231614.AA27632@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:03:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"LTWKQB.A.SjE.B345y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1775 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:15:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 6726d915017921fe3f57391170478bd8 Michael asked the following: "Please thank ms Ciccone and ask her if she's related to Madonna. (i) Are the resonators in the Reflex and Vortex the same? (ii) The details say that these "simulate the acoustic effects of multi-stringed instruments". What does that mean in practice? Will it make my guitar more violin/cello - like? No, Andrea is of no relation to Madonna. That was one of the first questions that I asked her. The resonators in the Reflex and Vortex are very different. In the Vortex the resonator parameters are handled differently within each algorithm. In the Reflex the chromatic resonator algorithm resonates chromatically off of the input signal creating something like chromatic arpeggiation. This is an interesting sound though not that useful in the traditional sense, but hey, youse folks here on dis list ain't the most traditional bunch anyway. The chromatic resonator will make one note sound as if several notes were struck. The inverse room may make your guitar sound more bowed if that is what you mean by violin or cello like. Thanks for your interest and please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 23 10:01:42 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 09:33:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnT1d-0004qH-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:33:21 -0800 Message-Id: <10419.199701231729@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:29:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Resent-Message-ID: <"W55IeC.A.EHE.o_55y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1776 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:33:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 39be7673f67fd49b04f0e62080eebc7b First things first: >No, Andrea is of no relation to Madonna. That was one of the first >questions that I asked her. Fer shame! She must _really_ be getting sick of that question by now. >The resonators in the Reflex and Vortex are very different. In the Vortex >the resonator parameters are handled differently within each algorithm. In >the Reflex the chromatic resonator algorithm resonates chromatically off of >the input signal creating something like chromatic arpeggiation. This is an >interesting sound though not that useful in the traditional sense, but hey, >youse folks here on dis list ain't the most traditional bunch anyway. >The chromatic resonator will make one note sound as if several notes were >struck. The inverse room may make your guitar sound more bowed if that is >what you mean by violin or cello like. Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? So what does the vortex resonator do differently? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 02:05:21 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 16:23:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnZQD-0006tS-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:23:09 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:12:37 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701231915_MC2-FCD-C06B@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"wxSPWD.A.ayF.S9_5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1779 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:23:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 2461a2f208c53d690de3b25d3ba880b0 Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform > transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter > to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? if you want "octave-up harmonics" for your guitar, get a Fernandez with sustainer. It does harmonic feedbacks you will really like. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never whistle while you pee) From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 02:05:14 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 23 14:17:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnXSf-0001v7-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:17:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:13:02 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_Dn2FD.A.V9.MG-5y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1778 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:17:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c01535c640983d1783348ebafa147dc On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > Check out the Echoplex footpedal tutorial on the web site. It has a bunch > of stuff on midi pedals. Plus, it's a great read! > http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html Very true. However the one thing I found this lacking was the final solution: a listing of make and model numbers of pedakls that *do* work and how to hook 'em up. The recent post on the pedal that send note info rather than cc messages is a great addition to this. Anyone else? Has anyone *used* the ARt X11/12/15 stuff? ADA stuff? Does it *work* or come close or fail? This info added to the FAQ would be incredibly helpful I would imagine. -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 09:57:18 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 02:42:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnj5l-0002wf-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:42:41 -0800 Message-Id: <24406.199701241039@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:39:54 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Jamman with Midi Fade Resent-Message-ID: <"u5mB-B.A.1nC.wFJ6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1780 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:42:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 574aef12034a42be50fe3eee5963ded6 Attention JamMan users! Has anybody tried using the MIDI fade option? The manual (unclearly) states that if you stop fading and start recording again the new recording is at the faded volume. Is that so and if it is, how do you start looping again at full volume without stopping the loop? Will Replace cancel the fade function? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 09:57:20 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 03:14:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnja8-0004Mh-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:14:04 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:11:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199701241111.DAA25606@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Resent-Message-ID: <"YTgkpC.A.rAE.gkJ6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1781 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:14:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 00bc014319fd144a42718269dfdca5ae >Has anybody tried using the MIDI fade option? The manual (unclearly) >states that if you stop fading and start recording again the new recording >is at the faded volume. Is that so and if it is, how do you start looping >again at full volume without stopping the loop? Will Replace cancel the >fade function? > the manual sez: "if TAP is pressed while a fade is active, jamman will resume loop play with LAYER cued. play is resumed at the faded level." this means that when you hit TAP, the loop will stop fading, and will continue to play at its faded level. anything you layer on this faded loop will loop at the volume you played it. the "midi fade" doesn't reduce the jamman's actual master "volume" level, it just reduces the delay feedback level so the loop will decay. when you hit TAP during the fade, feedback is brought back to 100%. james From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 09:57:27 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 04:52:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnl79-0007X0-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:52:15 -0800 Message-Id: <27813.199701241240@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:40:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Resent-Message-ID: <"IEGAmB.A.vtG._3K6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1782 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:52:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 8dee4ac14e6529134654561fb7c63e61 >the manual sez: > >"if TAP is pressed while a fade is active, jamman will resume loop play with >LAYER cued. play is resumed at the faded level." >this means that when you hit TAP, the loop will stop fading, and will >continue to play at its faded level. anything you layer on this faded loop >will loop at the volume you played it. the "midi fade" doesn't reduce the >jamman's actual master "volume" level, it just reduces the delay feedback >level so the loop will decay. when you hit TAP during the fade, feedback is >brought back to 100%. Thanks, James -that's what I was hoping for! I've been worried that I was going to have to put it in some kind of volume-preamp loop. I know the way I thought the manual said it worked wouldn't make a helluva lot of sense, but then neither does leaving MIDI off the Vortex... :) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 09:57:36 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 07:16:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnnN2-0006Di-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:16:48 -0800 Message-Id: <9701241515.AA01882@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:04:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Vortex Resonators To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"tKqZmC.A.zjF.zFN6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1783 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:16:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 4b878eb22552abc0af7114907f20e5a9 Michael asked:"So what does the vortex resonator do differently?" Well the Vortex doesn't really have what I would call a resonator. It has parameters labeled resonance which are handled differently within each of the algorithms: In the Reflection algorithms resonance controls the gain of the signal that resonates off of the detuned voices. In Atmosphere A Resonance 1 is the gain for the signal that resonates off of vibrato 1and Resonance 2 controls the gain of signals resonating off of the cross mix of the two vibratos. In Atmosphere B Resonance 1 is a mix control between 2 delay taps and 2 modulators and Resonance 2 provides tuning for the 2 modulators. In the both Orbits algorithms and the Centrifuge A algorithm Resonator 1 and 2 provide resonance off of the rotary signals 1 and 2. In the Centrifuge B algorithm the Resonance parameters control the gain of the resonance from each of the rotary signals. In the Aerosol algorithms Resonance 1 mixes the left and right modulation signals together and Resonance 2 affects the stereo image of the modulation effects. In the Mosaic algorithms the Resonance parameters adjusts the resonance of each of the modulation effects. In Maze A Resonance 1 is the resonance gain for the modulator and Resonance 2 controls the tuning. In Maze B Resonance 1 controls the gain for the left detune and Resonance 2 controls the gain for the right detune. In Duo A Resonance 1 controls the level of the resonation of the vibrato effects and Resonance 2 controls the mix of the resonation off of the 2 vibrato effects. In Duo B Resonance 1 controls the gain of the resonation of the vibrato effects and resonance controls the cross mix between the 2 vibratos. In the Deja Vu algorithms Resonance A is the gain for the resonation of the stereo glide and Resonance 2 is the gain of the cross-resonation of the stereo glide. In the Choir algorithms Resonance 1 is affects the resonance for the multi-chorus L-R cross mix and Resonance 2 affects the resonance for the multi-chorus R-L cross mix. In Shimmer A Resonance 1 controls the cross resonance gain of the modulated effects and Resonance 2 controls the tuning of the cross resonance. In Shimmer B Resonance 1 controls the gain of the stereo resonator and Resonance 2 controls the tuning of the resonator. In the Sweep algorithms Resonance 1 controls the left resonance and Resonance 2 controls the right resonance. In Sweep A the resonance is on the glide effect and in Sweep B the resonance is on the vibrato effect. In Shadow A Resonance 1 controls the R-L cross resonance of the modulated signal and Resonance 2 controls the L-R cross resonance of the modulated signal. In Shadow B Resonance 1 controls the low-pass filter cutoff frequency and Resonance 2 controls the cross-resonance of the modulated signal. In the Cycloid algorithms Resonance 1 controls the left filter cutoff frequency and Resonance 2 controls the right filter cutoff frequency. In Bleen A Resonance 1 controls the gain of the resonator and Resonator 2 controls the tuning of the resonator. In Bleen B Resonance 1 is the gain for the left detune and Resonance 2 is the gain for the right detune. In the Fractal algorithms Resonance 1 controls the resonance off of the stereo glide effect and Resonance 2 controls the gain of the cross-resonance of the stereo glide. According to the designer of Vortex any similarities of the Vortexs' resonator to that of any of its predecessors is purely coincidental. Sorry for the long post. Best regards, Greg From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 11:23:56 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 10:17:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnqBs-000741-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:28 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:10:50 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch Resent-Message-ID: <"-j8znC.A.cQG.TvP6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1784 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b695392a29fe7251e4a4cb0659794a5 >On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > >> Check out the Echoplex footpedal tutorial on the web site. It has a bunch >> of stuff on midi pedals. Plus, it's a great read! >> http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html > >Very true. However the one thing I found this lacking was the final >solution: a listing of make and model numbers of pedakls that *do* work >and how to hook 'em up. The recent post on the pedal that send note info >rather than cc messages is a great addition to this. Anyone else? Has >anyone *used* the ARt X11/12/15 stuff? ADA stuff? Does it *work* or come >close or fail? > > >This info added to the FAQ would be incredibly helpful I would imagine. I'd be happy to add such info, except I don't know nearly enough about all the midi footcontrollers out there to be very useful. If anyone wants to send me the appropriate data on footpedals you are familiar with, please do! You should be able to tell what functionality the pedal needs to have from what is now on the web page. I think what I know so far is: Digital Music's Ground Control does not work, Rocktron All Access should work, and the Digitech PMC-10 should work based on the manual. The PMC-10 is long out of production, and I have no idea if the current Digitech pedals are similar. I got my PMC-10 used for a $100, but I still need to try it with the plex. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 11:23:59 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 10:26:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnqKk-0000DJ-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:26:38 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:21:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970124114751_409142681@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Copressors, fade ins, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"XiElg.A.eHH.q3P6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1785 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:26:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 9a695bf04aa9903ba2f7bbd5b33702fc Wouild some kind soul mind explaining to me exactly how you can use a compressor to get this fade-in, slowed-attack effect it sounds like you guys are talking about with Frissel, who I haven't heard? I've tried in vain to use the "attack" control of various compressor to do that, trying to emulate less exotic players than Bill (like some of Steven Still's BSpringfield textures). Any direx appreciated... On the pitch shift front, sorry for always suggesting a simple $2000+ fix with the VG-8. It's just that, once you have one, it ceases to feel expensive, just essential! But, inspired by it, I have tried adding low-level pitch shifts with basic fx. High and low fifth and fourths mixed around 50% seem to work some similar magic. try all intervals, add distortion, delays, tremelo, vibrato, parallel instead of series connections, whatever, to break down the parallel-instrument effect in favor of the added harmonic content thing... dp From ???@??? Fri Jan 24 11:24:03 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 10:48:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnqfn-0002US-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:48:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 11:37:55 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:Re: Jamman with Midi Fade MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lD_Ep.A.VmB.xIQ6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1786 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:48:23 -0800 X-UIDL: ecec40ce6736803914058c01430e605d Having just received my Jamman, without a manual, I also have a fade question. Can the feedback level be controlled (reduced) on the Jamman without using this Midi fade? I would like to fade loops, but do not have midi controller. bret From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:00:57 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 11:27:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnrHW-0006TV-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:27:22 -0800 Message-Id: <9701241920.AA03465@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:09:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: re:Re: Jamman with Midi Fade To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"NSCtUC.A.nMF.urQ6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1787 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:27:22 -0800 X-UIDL: b4036a163e8c9ff56c86584908368552 bret asked: "Can the feedback level be controlled (reduced) on the Jamman without using this Midi fade? I would like to fade loops, but do not have midi controller." Sorry ,bret, this feature is only available via MIDI program change message in the loop mode. You do have front panel control over feedback level in the Echo mode. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:00:59 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 11:29:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnrJU-0006fh-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:29:24 -0800 Message-Id: <9701241922.AA03472@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:12:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foo To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"0-cKZD.A.vZF.ftQ6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1788 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:29:24 -0800 X-UIDL: f8b5a708a10435cbca8e39bb03fa94e3 kim wrote: "I think what I know so far is: Digital Music's Ground Control does not work, Rocktron All Access should work, and the Digitech PMC-10 should work based on the manual. The PMC-10 is long out of production, and I have no idea if the current Digitech pedals are similar. I got my PMC-10 used for a $100, but I still need to try it with the plex." If the reason that the Ground Control is unacceptable is because it will not send the same program change message twice in a row DMC has fixed this problem with a software upgrade! I From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:02 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 12:04:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnrrt-0002NU-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:04:57 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:56:41 -0500 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark) Message-Id: <199701241956.OAA03036@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Please be careful with dashes X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GUcZRD.A.n7.JKR6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1790 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:04:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 84d0b76a3e5bb317bc5daaf53c717e45 There was recently discovered a problem which i think everyone here should be aware of. The digest version of this list is sent as a collection of attachments each separated by a series of dashes at the left margin. If your post or your signature contains two or more dashes at the left margin some mail readers will get very confused ant not display any of the digest after that line. If you must use dashes at the left margin of a post please insert a single space or some non-dash character before the line. This will allow those of us with stupid mail readers to read the entire digest. Thank You Clark From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:03 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 12:22:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vns8U-00047j-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:22:06 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701242009.MAA29937@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Please be careful with dashes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:09:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199701241956.OAA03036@octopus.ab.platinum.com> from "Clark" at Jan 24, 97 02:56:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2yeiq.A.OuC.RcR6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1791 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:22:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 1f9e2e1b6f703c5e3611c264578837a2 > There was recently discovered a problem which i think everyone > here should be aware of. The digest version of this list is > sent as a collection of attachments each separated by a series > of dashes at the left margin. If your post or your signature > contains two or more dashes at the left margin some mail readers > will get very confused ant not display any of the digest after > that line. If you must use dashes at the left margin of a post > please insert a single space or some non-dash character before > the line. This will allow those of us with stupid mail readers > to read the entire digest. > > Thank You > > Clark I'll also add that one should not leave a "." on a line by itself. This caused a problem with the Digital Guitar list. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 15:18:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnusm-0006Au-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:18:04 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:14:23 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Please be careful with dashes In-Reply-To: <199701241956.OAA03036@octopus.ab.platinum.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4RFtdC.A.IcF.ZJU6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1792 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:18:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 891fd32273a4bb1a9574407fd1321b27 It should be noted that a small number of dashes on the left margin, before the signature file, is considered "correct" software behavior on the Internet, and many mail programs (including Netscape) automatically add them. So any software that's dying because of dashes in the signature is incorrect, and ignoring a widely-used informal standard. -dave, professional unix programmer and occasional Internet consultant By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:22 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 15:39:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnvCy-0000Sx-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:38:56 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:34:42 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"rvNHjD.A.90G.iWU6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1793 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:38:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 9f5a3bf5382d7384f7e62ae2ec9b4d5b Thank you, Emmanuel for this extremely long post. It blocked my mailbox for three days, but its worth it! I try to answer only to the most important points of it, although there would be a lot more to say. >The topic of creative isolation is striking a chord with me: probably >with many others. Somewhat off formal list topic, but nonetheless central >to all of us who want to create. Agreed. We grow together about some music, so if we exclude these questions we limit the groops value. >My main point is that I've never witnessed really potent stuff coming >from someone who did their thing in isolation (doesn't mean it can't happen!). I am not sure whether I started the idea of isolation. If so, I did isolate from musical influences during that period, but not at all personally. I even invited groups of friends and we watched slides or meditated while I was playing, so I did have that necessary return, "someone to babble to". >There is no "tabula rasa", but neither is there some >autonomous, congenital, pure, "inner voice", in my opinion. I was not looking for tabula rasa either. The blues licks did not disapear, but started to sound different in the new surrounding. I do believe in that "inner voice", and that it is easily overheard because of the constant input of (louder, produceder) sounds through the ears. >I don't >think we can ever escape our musical and tonal conditioning any more >than we can escape the meanings and nuances generated by the knowledge >of our mother tongues. Perfectly agreed, nice comparison. The "inner voice" speaks that language. >Can we change >the way we organize our thoughts, perhaps even our personalities, by taking >up a new language? Perhaps. I changed a lot in the portugese ambient. I started to understand things german speaking people are not aware off. Usually there is no word in german for those things. Now, I do not know whether there is no word because they were not interested or whether people have not been able to become aware of a "thing" (rather emotions, concepts...) because there was no name for it. >So I think some of this discussion about "going beyond" and expanding >horizons has a lot to do with the analysis/synthesis process that we >all go through when we *learn* something new. No two of us hear and feel >the same way. No two of us have the same hands, the same joints for >fretting or pressing the keys. This goes for language, for content, it takes more. >The best way we can love and honor our influences is to make them our >own. I think when we bring the music home, deep into ourselves, that this >is when we innovate ... this is when the synaptic connections are made. nice! >For me, that inner "pure" voice is something that is sought via a process >that is dialetical in nature. So ther is this voice? What does "sought" mean (infinitif?) >do is then some kind of synthesis of all these factors, many of them common >to what is out there in the world and some of them unique to you. Some >people will be able to cultivate more of what is unique within them. I would not valorize the unique that much. I highly admire musicians that are able to interprete a piece the way the composer intended it. I admire even more, when they can do it with any kind of style. We need such professionals, at least to back up the ones that only do their unique thing. >Once you have >the right primordial soup, all the conditions for life (or music) are >available, and all you need is the right spark to get some combustion >going. Right! And this might be the moment you do not want external influences any more. >a lot of preparation for making music. Everybody has to go through this. It seams that the effort is extremely different. Some just listen once and then do it the same. But we also observe that the difficulty makes more creative. The one that has everithing at hand may have less motivation to find HIS solution. Since I never will be able to play a piece of composer corectly, I need to create mine and really profit from all the ingrediants there are available for my soup. This is how Pizza and Fejoada (famous brasilian bean dish) had been invented: By the poor who had to create something eatable with what they has access to. In the case of Fejoada its tail, ears, nose... what the rich left to the slaves and generations of big black mamas put all their love into their fire places... Once its created, the rich take it over (and they are smart in copying and marketing!) and sell it expensive in the speciality restaurant. With many musical styles grew the same way. >Maybe the rest of creativity is intuition, talent, black magic, luck, >stubbornness, willpower. Some people just have to work something over, >compulsively, till they get it to where it makes sense to them. There >is a lot of processing going on. Maybe a lot of it is going on even away >from the instrument. Very agreed! >As a final note, it is interesting that this line of thought has >evolved among this group of loopers. As a looper, is one not >creating some sort of creative isolation, in so far as one is >bouncing their ideas off the wall/mirror that looping devices provide. >Might not a lot of looping experimentation be likened to the game >of solitaire, in which one is forced to react to the choices that they >have made in the previous play. Nice! Another interesting comparison. What is this game like? Looping could not be compared to a chess computer or patience, I think. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:17 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 15:35:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnv9o-0000A2-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:35:40 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:35:15 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"AiLwwD.A.E7G.QXU6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1794 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:35:40 -0800 X-UIDL: fbd9475bd22901d4b30da19cd860de8c John said, some days ago: >Only when you have mastered your instrument can you >play from >your inspiration. ... >Many music students give up before they develope the >technique >to play inspiring music because of said frustration and lack of patience >or disipline. There is a critics I had for music lessons, at least in switzerland. They suggest that the pupil knows a lot of technique before he starts knowing inspiration. I think "the channel" should be tought soon. I never gave lessons, but I would try to make a pupil feel he is able to play music, even with just a few slow notes. Could that work? I guess the problem comes from there: Many of the teachers are musicians with a limited talent, little knowledge about inspriation, rather discipline to get the technique to pass the diploma... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:18 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 15:37:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnvBE-0000Hu-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:37:08 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:35:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"-vaQhC.A.H-G.qXU6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1796 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:37:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e9ebd62d7bf9203c3bca8df28d29819 Out of Coffin: >I think you can go further and assert that technical limitations are never a >barrier to expression. If the need to express, or the content, is demanding >enough, it finds a way. When technical freedom is met with great inspiration, >it makes for a sublimely entertaining experience, but not necessarily more a >compelling one, merely because of its brilliance. We'd love to have >everything, but it's not really necessary. I agree somehow. Otherwhise Bob Dylan never would have sold records. But I observe that in the heavy competition, more and more it IS "necessary to have everything". Its not enough to have something to say and find a way to express it, you need to play and dance well, be beautyfull and speak well and and and... This is for the ones that look for success. And they do not make all of the culture, I hope. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:21 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 15:38:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnvCO-0000PZ-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:38:20 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:35:30 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: New Lex ad Resent-Message-ID: <"z2ayYB.A.z9G.oXU6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1795 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:38:20 -0800 X-UIDL: e27c9715d0c51b8996747222bb2397c0 >I read that, when he was a pilot, Steve Morse would practive while driving >to/from work - put the car on cruise control, and play whilst steering with >his knees.... Oh yeah, I had I friend like that, too! A brilliant Jazz guitarist and pianist called Teddy Baerlocher. He used to have the cavacinho on the knees and the partitura on the steering wheel. We thought it was crazy, until he died on the high way, stepping out of the car to help another cars self accident! Then we had a hard time to understand or even accept destiny... But my point was: Its possible to practice without actually playing an instrument. Other posts confirm that very nicely! Thanks. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:19 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 15:37:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnvBf-0000Kz-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:37:35 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:35:43 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"Xu3NmC.A.6-G.wXU6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1797 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:37:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ea0a8a0ca96365f6ef725a763ee1091 Dave Stagner said some days ago: >Technique is only necessary to the point where you are capable of >expressing the idea in your head. and: >Look at Neil Young. "Technically", he's not a very good guitarist. >But as someone once observed, you can't slip a piece of paper between >what he feels and what he plays. His technique is sufficient for his >expression. He's no master of his instrument, but he's a master of >the technique of channelling his emotions musically. Interesting example. Do you think he is able to "expressing the idea in your head" or: play what comes to his mind? I hear it does not pass through his mind. Thats why you cannot slip a piece of paper between. His technical limitations influence his style strongly and make it strong... >Too much >technique shifts the art away from expression. Insufficient technique >prevents the art from being realized. right. >Perhaps even "balance" is a poor term. Technique must be sufficient >for expression, but excessive technique is unnecessary. And the >temptation to use excessive technique detracts us from expression. No, stronger: The lack of technique is expressive, turns into a language. Zappa is another one who plays very long solos, and I am convinced that about one third of the notes that come up in his tremendously formed mind do not make it to the string, because he does not pluck it right (I cared to observe this on videos), because he is not as fast as he would need to be to express what he has in mind. But the solos are brilliant and unique also due to the pl... notes! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:24 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 15:42:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnvG3-0000kp-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:42:07 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:37:39 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"XkWqdC.A.gR.feU6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1798 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:42:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 1310802a8b510d5ab4be42099880dea6 David definitally came out and wrote so beautifully what I believe: >practicing, noodling, composing, excercising, sound designing, whatever, >they're all really just what I need to do while waiting for the angel to >appear behind me, the spirit to descend, the clouds to part, the present to >unfold itself into an infinite NOW of no possible wrong notes, when every >gesture is appropriate, and every influence is revealed to have simply been a >reminder of an all-ready heard and longed for beauty. When this DOES happen, >only then does all the everyday work make sense...so I keep it up, no matter >how it feels, as much as possible, trying not to judge it, or myself for >failing. (And thus the recordings, when I'm lucky enough to have a tape >available, seem to improve, as artifacts, at least. NOTHING can improve on >the experience.) >After all, if you're not out standing in the road how will you know when the >bus comes by? Wow, I will never forget that sentence! How about getting your own car? >...I seem to remember somebody saying "...in art the most important thing is >to just show up." >...may the unseen world send blessings upon us all! Maybe we do not *really* need a living beeing "to babble to"... Its belief, its personal, no doctrine... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:35 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 17:48:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnxEE-0004gM-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:48:22 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701250141.RAA04518@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:41:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Jan 24, 97 09:35:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R-uvLD.A.mzD.LTW6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1800 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:48:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 0cc631ca1938e35dba3f081cdfe685da > >Too much > >technique shifts the art away from expression. Insufficient technique > >prevents the art from being realized. > > right. I partially disagree. What shifts one's art away from expression is _not_ "too much technique". It is the over-reliance on habits. Playing the blues box is a habit for some players. Playing a favorite 3-octave harmonic minor scale pattern is a habit for others. Playing a favorite diminished arpeggio up and down the fretboard is a habit for yet others. And so on. A major component of self-expression is being in control over one's habits rather than being controlled by them. A possible analogy is a conversation. I notice that when I am genuinely interested in the conversation, I participate in a way that is, for lack of a better term, "non-rehearsed". When I am getting bored, I begin to act in a rehearsed manner, which is smiling and nodding. This is a habit I have. [Matthias's excellent comments on limited technique forming a language deleted] Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:36 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 17:54:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnxKD-0005KD-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:54:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:48:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199701250148.RAA02398@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foo Resent-Message-ID: <"jEPmuB.A.mnE.ubW6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1801 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:54:33 -0800 X-UIDL: e82c10ccb3073d085a23dbcfe7cc4a59 greg wrote: >If the reason that the Ground Control is unacceptable is because it will not >send the same program change message twice in a row DMC has fixed this >problem with a software upgrade! still, (as i mentioned earlier in this thread) the echoplex unfortunately doesn't respond to program change messages. it needs either note messages (non-zero velocity followed by zero) or continuous controller (non-zero value followed by zero). james From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:38 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 18:09:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnxYe-0006sz-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:09:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:02:45 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970124175432_1825877740@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: re:Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Resent-Message-ID: <"TWLGoC.A.55F.HoW6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1802 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:09:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 14693319902130cff6517316a2fce3b0 In a message dated 1/24/97 1:44:45 PM, you wrote: <> Do your looping in echo mode with feedback set high. When you want to freeze a loop turn the feedback dial to 16==infinite feedback--Paul From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:43 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 21:11:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo0OM-0006Pp-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:11:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:12:55 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Morphing into a loop (Was: Re: slider for a vortex) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Cc: michpres@erols.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <32E98847.5B62@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XfJOR.A.RpF.tTZ6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1803 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:11:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 00236c9f15cc82cb372288301a4741d8 In a previous post, I mentioned morphing into a loop, and Michael Preston wrote via private mail: >I bet the whole loopin' crew would like to read about the Vortex >parameterization for morphing into a loop. I haven't found that special >morphing pattern yet. I'll be looking for it. Look no further than Deja Vu A and B. Select B, set Envelope to 1. That's it! (I was misremembering that it was more complicated than that.) A description of how I use this trick may be instructive... or it may be boring, but here it is anyway: ;-) There's this Thing I Play in two sections, fingerstyle, at a medium tempo (the only one I know), with a Latin feel (accents on the first, fourth and seventh eighth-notes). I've been trying to find a way to make it into music (as opposed to just a pleasant-sounding Thing I Play) for years. It's in the key of A. The first section is basically three chords, though they're all extended or altered, in what amounts to a 24-bar blues format; the second section is essentially an etude I worked out to drive the sound of m7b5 chords into my head (worked very nicely, too.) The first section sounds OK by itself, _once_, so I play it with the Vortex in Deja Vu B. With Envelope set to 1, input to the delay line(s) is cut off, so the guitar sound comes out dry. I tap the tempo in-- a full measure. At the beginning of section B, I tap the A/B switch, bringing in those delightful ducked echoes (something I'd never experienced before the Vortex), which combine with my playing to make a melody that was never there before. The last measure of the second section is a V chord. I tap the A/B switch on the downbeat, and play just three notes: E dotted quarter note, F# dotted quarter note, and a muted string slap. What the Vortex gives me in return is much more complex. There are one or more sounds on just about every eighth note in the loop, with percussion from the string slap audible on the fourth and prominent on the seventh. There's a stacatto A bass note on the down beat, in addition to both the E and F#. And the doubled or alternating E and F# combine very nicely to my ear with all of the following chords. "My playing, but more of it"--Yes! Obviously, the Morph parameter values are the foundation of this process. Since Deja Vu B accepts no input with Envelope set to 1, what goes into the loop can only be what goes into the Vortex during the morph, plus what's carried over as echoes from notes played right before the morph. Preset Morph value for both A and B is 21. Tweaking either or both could significantly alter the nature of the loop. Another obvious avenue for exploration is morphing into Deja Vu B from a more prominently effected patch, especially one with modulation occurring before the echoes, _especially_ if the echoes are polyrhythmic... :-) :-) Of course, with an expression pedal assigned to Envelope in Deja Vu B, the loop can be added to after creating it in this fashion. I suspect I'll be laboring in this particular trench for quite a while, since the Vortex is my only looping device (still haven't heard whether I'm a winner in the GC JamBro lottery). -- John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:44 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 21:19:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo0WW-00078C-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:19:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:53:17 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <32E9917E.5FF7@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <32EAAC56.41C6@nyfac.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"VnXQ1D.A.AgG.jdZ6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1804 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:19:28 -0800 X-UIDL: baf28710cbe1b0d150789a07bb35d863 Trevor wrote, > You know, maybe this marks me as a talentless hack or idiot savant, but > it seems the times that I play best are when my mind shuts down and the > music just seems to come from somewhere else, surpising me as much (if > not more) than the next guy. Yes! I think what underlies this entire discussion is how best to prepare oneself to allow that to happen. The closest I've ever come to a formula for cultivating getting into "the zone" was when I was gigging regularly, and playing a song I knew well and played frequently (usually pretty much the same way). I would make a conscious decision to do one thing differently than usual-- start a solo on a different note, for example, or try a much slower tempo. Of course, it didn't always work-- but sometimes it did. :-) My technical ability on any instrument is very limited, but this magic has occured frequently enough (with verification from listeners and recordings) for me to realize that more sophisticated technique is not necessary-- only helpful. What matters is the ability to play without conscious thought, as Trevor points out. At this point, looping seems to be so cerebral that I'm not sure I'll be able to reach that level. Discuss? John Pollock (removing the Netscape-imposed dashes, and hoping I can figure out how to send this only _once_) mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:55 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 23:14:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo2Jf-0007m4-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:14:19 -0800 Message-ID: <32E9A63B.5EE2@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:20:44 -0700 From: Shelley Reply-To: spoticha@earthlink.net Organization: STPP X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: slider & pedal for a vortex References: <9701211454.AA19832@beryllium.lexicon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KE34T.A.NFH.cIb6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1805 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:14:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 68c36afcaa09a9604b4d69f256a58875 greg - How do I use the EV-5 to move between AB to slide/morph? I heard that I can morph between A and B effects but stop along the way - How do I achieve this and can i freeze and store into a register? From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 03:57:56 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 02:01:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo4vH-0001kB-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:01:19 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:58:51 -0500 (EST) From: WBrake@aol.com Message-ID: <970125045849_681496073@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"KgWuc.A.qiB.dmd6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1806 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:01:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 7596d2446dbc937193d84e475c174906 The one thing we all need to remember is the best speakers force us into an additional problem...car and home stereos, despite quality and capability, will not sound like the monitors in our studios. That is unless we have the "real world, worst case" reference speakers in which to "reality check" our mixes. The Yamaha NS-10M is a prime example. To my ears, they are harsh and difficult to listen to for an extended period of time, but if you can get a mix to sound good on these, in ADDITION to your "prized" monitoring system, you can rest assured that Joe Brown driving down the street will hear your mix as intended. As an additional note, be aware that frequency limitations of your monitoring system can be Detrimental to a quality mix. If you can't hear a frequency that has been boosted or cut, you don't really know what your final mix sounds like. It could have a low frequency rumble or a high pitched squeal that you don't know is there....until someone with a better system listens to your work and tells you. Or worse yet, deposits your latest project in the round file with no comment at all! I have not heard the Optimus speakers, maybe I should, but only as a "Real World" alternative, not as my primary monitoring system. I recommend reading this months Pro Sound News, there is a nice debate on nearfield monitoring! I welcome you comments Will wbrake@aol.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 15:11:07 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 05:15:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo7xW-0000M2-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 05:15:50 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 05:09:46 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: If ya liked them records.... Resent-Message-ID: <"SYXK0B.A._N.Gbg6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1807 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 05:15:50 -0800 X-UIDL: bdddff6c88c66dea4e060ad77278a827 At 5:49 PM 1/15/97, Paolo Valladolid wrote: >> everyone here already knows how spiff david is, but anyone who hasn't >> checked out dj spooky, go buy "songs of a dead dreamer" right now. groovy >> urban-ambient type stuff ("illbient"), very inspirational for us loopers. >> how does he get those sounds??? >> >> james > >Thanks to this list, I heard about dj spooky and Meat Beat Manifesto and >bought their CDs. I too found their works to be inspirational. I don't >see myself spinning records but I feel I can learn a lot from listening >to them. > > >Paolo Valladolid I too recently picked up Mr. Spooky's "dead dreamer" cd, and can attest that it is really quite cool. It is the only cd I own where the booklet verbiage quotes Francis Bacon and KRS-One right next to each other! On the same binge I picked up a few other gems, so for those of you trying to get beyond, beside, askance, beneath, or otherwise repositioned in relation to fripp, may I humbly suggest: DJ Shadow "Endtroducing" While Mr. Shadow and Mr. Spooky share the same first initials, their music arrives from totally other places. The spook-man (or, "that air-headed guy" as a jaded industry friend of mine refered to him) is definitely from the psychedelic trip-hop scene, with strong techno roots. DJ Shadow is Hip-hop all the way. I'd heard a lot of buzz on him, basically in the vein of "the great hope for hip-hop" and "revolutionary." The CD package even has a sticker proclaiming DJ Shadow the "Jimi Hendrix or Jimmy Page of the Sampler." Assuming that's a compliment, we've got some pretty good hype building here. DJ Shadow, oddly (or not), is not from the urban inner city, but from the small argricultural city of Davis, CA. He had some sort of screwed up childhood and consoled himself by totally immersing in hiphop culture, eventually spinning discs at local college parties. In interviews he expresses a very deep knowledge and love of the music, yet is quick to attack his more successful brethren for the uninspired dreck that has littered the urban music landscape in recent years. He efficiently makes the point in one short groovy track entitled "Why Hip Hop sucks in 96." The to-the-point sample says everything you need to know about Dr. Snoop Coolio Dre, et al: "It's the money." Shadow insists hiphop is not dead, and he has apparently set out to revive it all by himself. "Endtroducing" is his first album, and I love it. It lives up to all the hype, in my opinion. It's all instrumental, so there are no cliched gansta poseur raps to get in the way. All the grooves are fresh (oops, phresh) and interesting, apparently culled through extensive record store hunting. His virtuosic dj skills create an assortment of fascinating, brilliant loops and booty wigglin' beats, all coupled with an excellent sense of composition rarely found in the genre. Even though I cringe at using the word, it's oftentimes epic, and the tunes are presently pemanently spinning in my head. DJ Shadow is beating DJ Spooky in my cd player about 2 to 1 lately.... So, thumbs up, worth 12 bucks, I think I'm gonna buy a turntable. The other good album I got is The Future Sound of London's new one, "Dead Cities." The only other album of their's I have is "Lifeforms" (which has fripp on it!!!!!!!!!!!!! heh, sorry) I like Dead Cities better. It's less "ambient" than Lifeforms, more gritty and urban feeling. A lot more rhythmic and sparse. It's a little inconsistent, as there were some parts that sounded unfinished somehow, but when it's good, it's really good. FSOL is from the Ambient-techno side of the loop planet, for those who don't know. Generally very innovative, using lots of analog synth and electronic sounds with various sorts of loops coming and going and different percussion beats moving in and out. Definitely check them out if you are keen on what all this stuff is about. (also, check out the Orb, who totally blew me away a year or so ago) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 15:11:13 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 06:15:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo8sq-0002Dr-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:15:04 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:12:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199701251412.GAA07566@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: Greg's help Resent-Message-ID: <"IAixw.A.3_B.UUh6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1809 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:15:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 4dd9d9a2ea0c974335d8c400b8c90d7f >I really appreciate your extended answeres and kind posts, Greg! > >For products that are out of production, or rather an abandoned product >line, I find Lexicons position remarkable, or do you do it out of a >personal interest? > yeah, i agree... if this is lexicon policy, lexicon customer support rocks... if it's just the kindness of greg's heart, then greg rocks... whichever: thanks, greg. james From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 15:11:12 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 05:34:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo8FL-0000zj-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 05:34:15 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:39:25 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Greg's help Resent-Message-ID: <"OqY8m.A.u3.Oug6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1808 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 05:34:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 1f609a085e8199eb15e82f09326154f2 I really appreciate your extended answeres and kind posts, Greg! For products that are out of production, or rather an abandoned product line, I find Lexicons position remarkable, or do you do it out of a personal interest? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 15:11:14 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 06:43:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vo9Jz-0003Ec-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:43:07 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:40:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199701251440.GAA07675@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... Resent-Message-ID: <"qp575.A.W7C.Guh6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1810 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:43:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 4cfdd1a5bee9becdebb31e6283ea67f9 >I too recently picked up Mr. Spooky's "dead dreamer" cd, and can attest >that it is really quite cool. It is the only cd I own where the booklet >verbiage quotes Francis Bacon and KRS-One right next to each other! > >On the same binge I picked up a few other gems, so for those of you trying >to get beyond, beside, askance, beneath, or otherwise repositioned in >relation to fripp, may I humbly suggest: > > >DJ Shadow "Endtroducing" > i have a feeling this is the beginning of a long thread. hope nobody thinks it's irrelevant: musical inspiration is always relevant! (you musical "isolationists" could benefit from the artists in this discussion - quite a departure from the fripp paradigm!) anyways, i wanted to say that i agree about the coolness of DJ Shadow. but for abstract, dark, jazzy, weirded-out loops and grooves, japan's DJ Krush truly blows me away. the general idea of the music is similar to that of DJ Shadow (a DJ producing solo albums, rather than just backing up a rapper), but Krush has a more dark, laid-back, tripped-out approach than Shadow. he kind of bridges the gap between Shadow and Spooky - not quite as ambient as Spooky, but not quite as "active" as Shadow. his album "strictly turntablized" is a collection of "excursions into the hiphop avant-garde". it's purely instrumental and has some deep, tweaked textures that are amazing. one of the coolest albums ever. the albums "krush" and "meiso" are essential too. the track "edge of blue" (on "krush") features a delayed, wah-pedaled, whammy-pedaled trumpet solo on top of a slinky gangsta-bass line that brings tears to my eyes... these two albums feature some guest vocals that detract somewhat, but there are still plenty of redeeming instrumentals. anyways, check this stuff out! james From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 15:52:52 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 15:14:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voHIp-0006nL-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:14:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:01:14 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... In-Reply-To: <199701251440.GAA07675@dsp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7f0n2C.A.SBG.PLp6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1811 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:14:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 29173bd0b9bff9af1ef71f421965d968 This sounds suspiciously like the beginning of an electronica-oriented thread... I picked up DJ Shadow's _Endtroducing_ and found it interesting but not mind-blowing. Perhaps I need to sit down with it some more and delve into it deeper; there's definitely a great deal of interest there, and I've been waiting for a long time for someone in the hip-hop community to start working with odd meter. But some of the material struck me as backing tracks in need of an MC on top, without a lot in and of themselves to recommend extended listening. I'll have to check this out a few more times before I level my definitive decision, though. I also skimmed through DJ Spooky's disc at a listening station and found the bits I heard to be interesting, but nothing I felt compelled to pick up. I also snatched up a couple of other loop-based electronic albums -- Tricky's _Pre-Millenium Tension_ and Underworld's _Second Toughest In The Infants_. Tricky's album I was expecting to be knocked out by, and thus far I haven't been. It pretty much encapsulates most of what I tend to dislike about loop-oriented music, which is a sort of plodding monotony without the necessary sort of interest or character to justify that sort of heavy repetition. Plus, I can't help but think that this is music that needs to be listened to under, er, states of altered consciousness in order to be appreciated. Put another way, this sounds like music made by people who were quite stoned, to be listened to by people who are quite stoned. I think that pretty much rules me out of Tricky's listening base. Underworld's album, though, was a revelation for me. This is some of the most happening music I've heard in a long time. Don't really know what to say about it, except that it eschews any standard approaches to song-based compositon in favor of a very gradual sort of metaorphoses of texture and timbre (ooops, I'm starting to sound like a record label press release). Suffice it to say that I'm enjoying it much. Anyone else have electronica-oriented recommendatons? --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 15:57:31 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 15:57:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voHyv-0002Mr-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:57:57 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:52:46 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... Resent-Message-ID: <"pliso.A.bAC.61p6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1812 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:57:57 -0800 X-UIDL: e4b6e74843b150ac51c2d56f169ad05c >>I too recently picked up Mr. Spooky's "dead dreamer" cd, and can attest >>that it is really quite cool. It is the only cd I own where the booklet >>verbiage quotes Francis Bacon and KRS-One right next to each other! >> >>On the same binge I picked up a few other gems, so for those of you trying >>to get beyond, beside, askance, beneath, or otherwise repositioned in >>relation to fripp, may I humbly suggest: >> >> >>DJ Shadow "Endtroducing" >> > >i have a feeling this is the beginning of a long thread. hope nobody thinks >it's irrelevant: musical inspiration is always relevant! (you musical >"isolationists" could benefit from the artists in this discussion - quite a >departure from the fripp paradigm!) I don't think its even slightly irrelevant, because for me dj/techno/hiphop/industrial/dub types of music are where all my looping motivation comes from. I had barely even heard of Robert Fripp before I got deeply into the Echoplex project and his name kept coming up in relation to looping. I still haven't ever listened to his soundscapes, unless the noises he was making in between songs at the Crimson shows I saw were soundscapes. Anyway, I'm glad to see others showing up here who come to looping from other spaces. I think a little cross-pollination will do us all a lot of good. I think I'll also take this moment to out a list lurker who came to our very small looper convention at NAMM. Pat Kirtley is a Taylor clinician and the 1995 figerstyle champion, not to mention an avid looper. He was telling me all about Les Paul's early contributions to delay devices and Chet Atkins current forays into looping. I'd love to hear more, and I'm looking forward to his promised articles for the Looper's Delight web site. I think he can give us some great perspective on how looping is taking a place in bluegrass and acoustic music. Feel free to de-lurk any time Pat! > >anyways, i wanted to say that i agree about the coolness of DJ Shadow. but >for abstract, dark, jazzy, weirded-out loops and grooves, japan's DJ Krush >truly blows me away. the general idea of the music is similar to that of DJ >Shadow (a DJ producing solo albums, rather than just backing up a rapper), >but Krush has a more dark, laid-back, tripped-out approach than Shadow. he >kind of bridges the gap between Shadow and Spooky - not quite as ambient as >Spooky, but not quite as "active" as Shadow. Hey, excellent! I've heard of Krush but hadn't checked it out yet. I'll be picking it up on the next binge for sure..... > >his album "strictly turntablized" is a collection of "excursions into the >hiphop avant-garde". it's purely instrumental and has some deep, tweaked >textures that are amazing. one of the coolest albums ever. > >the albums "krush" and "meiso" are essential too. the track "edge of blue" >(on "krush") features a delayed, wah-pedaled, whammy-pedaled trumpet solo on >top of a slinky gangsta-bass line that brings tears to my eyes... these two >albums feature some guest vocals that detract somewhat, but there are still >plenty of redeeming instrumentals. > >anyways, check this stuff out! looking forward to it! Who else has some recomendations to help us all expand our horizons a bit? Hey, here's an idea: The loopography page needs more stuff. Right now it's almost entirely consisting Michael Peter's selections. Now Michael certainly has excellent taste, but as always, multiple contributions make it better. How about if we all try to think of just one or two recordings that made a looping impact on us, write a little review, and forward it on to Michael to add? Two albums that made a big impact on me, which you should check out if you aren't familiar with these, are: Public Enemy, "Fear of a Black Planet" - still gives me some of the biggest goosebumps of any album I've ever listened to. The rhythm tracks a masterpieces. Ministry, "The Mind is Terrible Thing to Taste" - The quintessential industrial album for me, this one caused geeky synthesizer nerds and neanderthalic metal heads the world over to look at each other for the first time in a positive way and say, "dude, lets jam!" I'll write more serious reviews for the page as soon as I find a moment.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 20:29:39 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 16:03:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voI3v-0002n2-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:03:07 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:57:21 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... Resent-Message-ID: <"YYdVrB.A.-XC.K6p6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1813 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:03:07 -0800 X-UIDL: f9c5adefb9e0a5297d52b3eeddcfae27 >Underworld's album, though, was a revelation for me. This is some of >the most happening music I've heard in a long time. Don't really know >what to say about it, except that it eschews any standard approaches to >song-based compositon in favor of a very gradual sort of metaorphoses of >texture and timbre (ooops, I'm starting to sound like a record label >press release). Suffice it to say that I'm enjoying it much. > >Anyone else have electronica-oriented recommendatons? I've got Underworld's "dubnobasswithmyheadman," which is also quite excellent. They manage to achieve this laid back techno feel that just grooves like hell. I've been listening to that album a lot. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 20:29:42 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 16:15:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voIGE-0003u1-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:15:50 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:12:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199701260012.QAA14857@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... Resent-Message-ID: <"PCrl4B.A.QbD.cGq6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1814 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:15:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 986ef44f2386eb3c47064ab26ccd0131 >I also snatched up a couple of other loop-based electronic albums -- >Tricky's _Pre-Millenium Tension_ and Underworld's _Second Toughest In The >Infants_. you really should check out the two precursors to these albums, tricky's "maxinquaye" and underworld's "dubnobasswithmyheadman". they two albums you mentioned are good, but a little spotty at times. the two older albums seem much more consistent to me. they aren't "plodding" - they DO something, although in a gradual way. the textures are dark and deep, mellow with solid grooves and metamorphosing textures and unrecognizable samples (is that a javanese gamelan i hear?). might as well add a few more recommendations, as long as i have someone's attention. i'm really into dark, strange, minimal, abstract music based on slowed-down hiphop beats. some favorites: scorn: ambient dub with messed up hiphop beats - some odd times and accents in weird places. great dark textures which gradually change over time. check out the album "gyral" or the meat beat manifesto remix of "silver rain fell". meat beat manifesto: the new double album is a departure from the older stuff - even more abstract, stranger, darker. great loops and grooves, freaky sounds. portishead: some might consider this too commercial, but hey let's face it, the album "dummy" is incredible. haunted-house-film-noir-hip-hop kind of stuff. includes samples and live instruments. (they played most drum parts themselves, printed them onto vinyl, then sampled and processed them to get the authentic sound. works!) skylab: the tracks "seashell" and "river of bass" from the album "#1" are just about perfect. sparse beats and and freakish synth and sample textures. red snapper: a quartet consisting of drums, acoustic bass, guitar, and sax/accordion/flute. i know what you're thinking... but the way they process and treat their instruments turns the music into a twisted, textural groovescape! sparse accordion notes swelling in under heavy reverb, bass lines run thru tremolo and looped backwards... strange etherial guitar noises... tasty stuff. james From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 20:29:46 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 16:34:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voIY6-0005PX-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:34:18 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:32:18 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... Resent-Message-ID: <"Ps3tl.A.V6E.aYq6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1815 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:34:18 -0800 X-UIDL: fae2935f8c3a0e742dc509b7df1eec32 neato says: here's a copy of a posting i made to the ambient list a couple of weeks ago... piled up all my 96 "ambient" releases and these emerged: -howie b-music for babies...this one got played more than anything else throughout the year and is still a late night fave...file next to skylab#1 -hia/biosphere-polar sequences...it sounds like when you're a kid and the snow is falling in the streetlight glow...let it snow let it snow let it snow -sacred system-chapter one book of entrance...of the many laswell related, this assortment of dub rocked nicely as a whole -tetsu inoue-world receiver...for interlink alone...which i heard on divination- distill first actually, but... -djamel ben yelles-1002 nights...perhaps bordering on saccharin, but still pleasantly endearing...melodious plus honorable mention: on any given day terry riley's-lisbon concert- could have been in there...not the most classic of rileys many beautiful works, but an artist so important it would be remiss not to mention him cheers p.s.-stanton makes looping devices...i've seen rack mount and small pedal types...they're for dj's, but ...anybody have any info all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 01:01:27 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 24 16:54:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vnwOQ-0007Y7-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:54:50 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32EAAC56.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:59:02 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fLcaa.A.MuG.vjV6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1799 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:54:50 -0800 X-UIDL: f6a7eb939d410623cbb661e6b53a5cf8 > >Look at Neil Young. "Technically", he's not a very good guitarist. > >But as someone once observed, you can't slip a piece of paper between > >what he feels and what he plays. His technique is sufficient for his > >expression. He's no master of his instrument, but he's a master of > >the technique of channelling his emotions musically. You know, maybe this marks me as a talentless hack or idiot savant, but it seems the times that I play best are when my mind shuts down and the music just seems to come from somewhere else, surpising me as much (if not more) than the next guy. It's these times that I am freed from all the licks, scales and theory (although, admittedly not that much) and what comes out is just pure expression. My best tapes frequently have me scratching my head and saying 'Now, how does that part go again?' BTW, I am a big NY fan. Trevor From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 20:29:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 18:57:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voKmz-0000HC-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:57:49 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:54:32 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970123233431_913863569@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Resent-Message-ID: <"8Ra8HC.A.SF.qes6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1816 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:57:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d2a80b1f7c0948a78eb5b29adb7db9f > Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform > transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter > to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? Now THIS is a job for the VG-8....pitch-shifting each string separately with pedal-blendable shifts of from + to -24 half-steps definitely restructures the waveform, making the strings sound like they're made of different materials, etc... (NOT amongst the in-store presets, mind you). e-mails for more info gladly responded to... dp From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 20:29:51 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 20:27:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voMBK-0006Iy-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:27:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:24:17 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970124175108_1892986597@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Resent-Message-ID: <"XxnCD.A.OyF.yyt6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1817 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:27:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 6975ae1f699f94ec7859ae4298ae9302 In a message dated 1/24/97 5:41:30 AM, you wrote: <> If you stop a fade and resume recording the faded loop will cease to fade and continue to play at the volume it had faded to before you stopped the fade. The newly recorded (layered) stuff will be at whatever volume the Jamman was set up for initially. A cool trick and one that isn't clearly stated in the manually is to initiate a fade while in record mode (you have to be working with a defined loop--that is one that has a start and stop point). Then anything you play is layered on what's fading and also fades. This is the same as using echo mode with various (aside from "16"=infinite playback) feedback settings.--Paul From ???@??? Sat Jan 25 22:55:37 1997 >From kflint Sat Jan 25 21:08:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voMpX-0001Pn-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:08:35 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:03:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Torn article ie beyond Fripp Resent-Message-ID: <"nc-vZC.A.eKB.TZu6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1818 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:08:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 61e7224e1543f6641c9e8217b1550650 >John said: >>Sept 96 issue of Guitar player has David Torn revealing his secrets for >>looping for those of you wishing to go "Beyond Fripp". I very inspiring >>article. >> >>Unfortunately they put the "Space Rock" article on the web instead of >>the Torn article, so'll you have to visit your library or borrow a friend's >>mag. > >You can find said article on the Torn Web page. And the URL is.... > >http://ott22.engin.umich.edu/torn/writings/in-the-loop.html > The torn article from guitar player is also on the Looper's Delight site, in case you don't want to stray to far from home: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/musings/David_Torn/Torn_Loop_Article.html kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 12:36:06 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 08:15:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voXF2-0005l0-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:15:36 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:34:28 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Echoplex Pedal Needed Resent-Message-ID: <"5RDTQD.A.fRF.1K46y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1820 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:15:36 -0800 X-UIDL: b8fa5e3a57a989bbe025b3d62dd631ae Hi, A friend is wanting to buy an Echoplex from Washington Music Center, but in the past month they have been unable to produce the pedal to go with it. They say it is on back order. Is this generally a production issue? Any suggestions where he might find both? Or just the pedal? Patrick :-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_- Patrick Smith ..... Patrick@his.com .... ... .. . *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ Solaris Guitar Trio .. .. . .. .http://www.xdc.com/solaris/ :-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_ From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 12:36:03 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 06:15:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voVMJ-0001fK-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 06:14:59 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:58:00 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: If ya liked them records.... To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701260910_MC2-1036-17A9@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"Hcd1IB.A.TcB.yY26y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1819 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 06:14:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ee997efefeed02d69e669845b2bfd31 > Who else has some recomendations to help us all expand our horizons a bit? > Hey, here's an idea: The loopography page needs more stuff. Right now it's > almost entirely consisting Michael Peter's selections. Now Michael > certainly has excellent taste, very true :) > but as always, multiple contributions make it better. > How about if we all try to think of just one or two recordings > that made a looping impact on us, write a little review, and forward it on > to Michael to add? yes, please do, but I think the page for "essential loop recordings" should only contain recordings which actually use loops or loopy repetitions. For all the other stuff, we could of course set up another page. If you submit something, please add infos about the release year so I know where to put them. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never pistle while you whee) From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 12:36:08 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 09:16:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voYC9-0001Bs-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:16:41 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:14:52 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: If ya liked them records.... Resent-Message-ID: <"c2FUh.A.OAB.UE56y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1821 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:16:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 35ab84e397c8a6bc47eea4156cc13eb6 mp@harold-scholz.de wrote: >yes, please do, but I think the page for "essential loop recordings" should >only contain recordings which actually use loops or loopy repetitions. For >all the other stuff, neato says: of course i know what you mean, but...in these days between drum loops, bass loops sampled vocal loops, etc etc, you'd probably find it harder to find something not using loops! practically all techno-industrial-ambient-dance-acid jazz is based on them in some form or another... cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 12:36:09 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 09:19:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voYFJ-0001Rd-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:19:57 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:17:50 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex Pedal Needed Resent-Message-ID: <"dAbNz.A.zMB.FH56y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1822 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:19:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 838bb93970874a70e9ea8d611be6866f Patrick@his.com wrote: >A friend is wanting to buy an Echoplex from Washington Music Center, but in >the past month they have been unable to produce the pedal to go with it. neato says: i've heard similar stories in nyc...backorder backorder backorder cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 12:36:21 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 11:04:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voZsS-0000hQ-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:04:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:01:25 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: ngold@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970123233431_913863569@emout05.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: Re: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Resent-Message-ID: <"nOtg7C.A.QZ.Xo66y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1825 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:04:28 -0800 X-UIDL: b7a105f5705eada8ec8d08ac95190396 >> Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform >> transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter >> to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? > >Now THIS is a job for the VG-8....pitch-shifting each string separately with >pedal-blendable shifts of from + to -24 half-steps definitely restructures >the waveform, making the strings sound like they're made of different >materials, etc... (NOT amongst the in-store presets, mind you). >e-mails for more info gladly responded to... >dp Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the VG8 (to own one is to love one) and would love to hear your comments on this. BTW, I got your patches from the website. Nice work! Neil ngold@teleport.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 12:36:18 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 11:01:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voZpg-0000Or-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:01:36 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:04:55 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: getting into "the zone" Resent-Message-ID: <"S9QRoB.A.ZC.al66y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1823 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:01:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 84e781b205e0873e5f0759564b502f84 John brought up: >The closest I've ever come to a formula for cultivating getting into >"the zone" was when I was gigging regularly, and playing a song I knew >well and played frequently (usually pretty much the same way). I would >make a conscious decision to do one thing differently than usual-- start >a solo on a different note, for example, or try a much slower tempo. Of >course, it didn't always work-- but sometimes it did. :-) Sounds like taking a risk is a important part. To "trust that it comes out right" is maybe similar to "calling the angel" >What matters is the ability to play without conscious thought. Right. But what does your conscious care about while this? Nothing? I do not think so. You are aware of technical things of the stage, reactions of the public... just not your composition, only the result of it, is that it? I tried to play without paying atention at all. Did not work. It takes listening, better even admiration for what comes out, without egoistic thinking. >At this point, looping seems to be so cerebral that I'm not sure I'll >be able to reach that level. Discuss? Is it? For me its the train into the zone! For my sound, reverb is important, too. Thats why they made the churches high in the middle age. Or do we react on reverb because generations of monks sang in it and related the sound to... Before looping I had the experiences with the zone, mostly solos I did not remember after the concert. Listening to the tape I note that I only remembered the bad parts and not the good ones. I still have that tendency. But since looping, its much more conscious. A friend (neither in love nor musician, just audience) once explained. "when you start playing, its nothing, just some stupid notes. But then I see the train coming, from far, and when its here, all is different and the notes turn into music and we all get on the train" So the operation of the machinery may be cerebral, but this maybe even helps me to play without thinking about playing? No, I think, once its really rolling, the operation of the machinery is inconscious, too. I remember to have touched a key by accident, like stumbling, and been annoyed about "screwing up the loop" that very moment. Later when I listened to the tape, I realized that it was the perfect step, so... The thing might be the integration of the whole equipment. The volume pedal can be operated in a "cerebral" way, but soon, it expresses automatically. More thoughts. experiences? Matthias From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 12:36:20 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 11:02:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voZqo-0000XJ-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:02:46 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:05:28 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Echoplex Pedal Needed Resent-Message-ID: <"NKdBvD.A.FH.7l66y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1824 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:02:46 -0800 X-UIDL: e253c9c789722e723cb95458f3fa47d1 Patrick needs a pedal >A friend is wanting to buy an Echoplex from Washington Music Center, but in >the past month they have been unable to produce the pedal to go with it. >They say it is on back order. Is this generally a production issue? Any >suggestions where he might find both? Or just the pedal? Make your own. Its really simple and for a lower price you can do it better, and according to your taste and needs, easily. Kim gave a lot of explanations on the site, if its not enough, keep asking. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 14:32:51 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 12:55:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vobbU-0001h8-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:55:04 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:07:20 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"27S8MC.A.EZB.jQ86y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1826 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:55:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 0433548d848c5a49ab9653e69c01a420 Status: O X-Status: At 3:52 PM 1/25/97, Kim Flint wrote: >>: >>his album "strictly turntablized" is a collection of "excursions into the >>hiphop avant-garde". it's purely instrumental and has some deep, tweaked >>textures that are amazing. one of the coolest albums ever. >> >>the albums "krush" and "meiso" are essential too. the track "edge of blue" >>(on "krush") features a delayed, wah-pedaled, whammy-pedaled trumpet solo on >>top of a slinky gangsta-bass line that brings tears to my eyes... these two >>albums feature some guest vocals that detract somewhat, but there are still >>plenty of redeeming instrumentals. >> >>anyways, check this stuff out! > >looking forward to it! > I second these rec's, Krush is very interesting. This might be a stereotype, but I find his mixes to have a haiku quality: simple, spare, with very few elements, but with a wonderful sense of internal balance and completeness. I think Krush is kind of the opposite end of the spectrum from DJ Spooky, whose mixes tend to be very complex and busy. The raps on Meiso are detracting, even if they are better than the typical gangster posturing. But that's what programmable CD-players are for. >Two albums that made a big impact on me, which you should check out if you >aren't familiar with these, are: > >Public Enemy, "Fear of a Black Planet" - still gives me some of the biggest >goosebumps of any album I've ever listened to. The rhythm tracks a >masterpieces. > Agreed, this record is a masterpiece, and an example of an entire approach to music that was almost litigated out of existance. This was one of the last great records made before all samples had to be cleared with the original artists, another great example of this style is the Beastie Boys 2nd record, "Paul's Boutique", produced by the Dust Brothers. I read somewhere that there was on the order of 2000 samples form vinyl on "Fear of a Black Planet", and having to clear all them would have been impossible. It's too bad, none of Public Enemy's or The Bomb Squad (PE's producers) work since then have the density and complexity of Black Planet. I don't want to start a debate about copyright issues, but I think that it's a shame that the Bomb Squad's or the Dust Brothers' work, which actively recontextualizes the samples they use, had to be held to the same legal standard as that of lesser producers. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 14:32:56 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 13:36:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vocFj-0004kx-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:36:39 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 14:32:14 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:Greg's help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tURmLC.A.oNE.q286y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1827 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:36:39 -0800 X-UIDL: d445581080177dec5f9a42447e6cc3a8 I too want to thank Greg. Last week I contacted him via Email to get a manual for my Jamman. I received it yesterday! How refreshing it is to get such prompt response. I could contrast this with my 3 months of communications with another looper vendor that promised to send me some parts/documents, but I won't :-) Were it not for the help and encouragement from Kim and Matthias I might have given up on my other looper by now (so frustrating seemed the problems, and the void of customer support from the maufacturer). Well, it is hard to ignore the powerful features it has. regards, bret From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 17:53:06 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 14:52:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vodQe-0002pz-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:52:00 -0800 From: kbp@imaginet.fr X-Sender: kbp@mail2.imaginet.fr Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:49:51 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Anti-MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"ys3KeC.A.FaC.b996y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1828 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:52:00 -0800 X-UIDL: bfbef453d82c5d60189019d823add12d Hi Looping People I want to go into looping music. The 'Plex is a desirable machine (and I've an old Echoplex from the 60's), but I fear the MIDI headache. I hate MIDI. All my gear is pre-midi, I'm still using CV/gate, triggers, 24p clocks and FSK code. I'm looking for a simple and solid machine. I own a PCM41 of which the delay is too short for true loops. An interesting article in the Loopers-Delight pages mention a modification of the Lexicon PCM42 which make it able to sync with a 24p clocks. I you know more about, e-mail me. Merci (Pierre Cazenave) From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 17:53:10 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 16:07:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voebN-0000OD-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:07:09 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:04:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199701270004.QAA28182@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: Echoplex Pedal Needed Resent-Message-ID: <"vG5v6D.A.JN.HF_6y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1829 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:07:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 35e6124f28e73d475be0a1b07a9ff354 >>A friend is wanting to buy an Echoplex from Washington Music Center, but in >>the past month they have been unable to produce the pedal to go with it. >>They say it is on back order. Is this generally a production issue? Any >>suggestions where he might find both? Or just the pedal? > >Make your own. Its really simple and for a lower price you can do it >better, and according to your taste and needs, easily. > >Kim gave a lot of explanations on the site, if its not enough, keep asking. > if anyone else is planning on or has actually made a pedal, i'm planning on making a combo floor pedal for my jamperson and vortex (my plex pedal works fine but the lexicon pedals are flimsy). i'm trying to track down some solid, reasonably priced, industrial momentary pushbutton switches to use in the thing. since they need to be used for tapping tempos and such, the action can't be too stiff. if anyone has had any success in this endeavor or can offer recommendations, let me know! thanks james From ???@??? Sun Jan 26 23:15:26 1997 >From kflint Sun Jan 26 18:33:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vogt8-00030P-00; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:33:38 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:26:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (mulB nayR) Subject: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) Resent-Message-ID: <"PJlVnD.A.HoC.BOB7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1830 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:33:38 -0800 X-UIDL: b1536dec4fd7f74b1da12cbbf1666026 Hey Everyone! Just thought I'd come out of the deep deep shadows to let everyone know that Musician's Friend, who happen to have a ton of JamMen in stock, will match the price of any other, including the $199.97 Guitar Center price....quite neat, i think. Anyway, maybe i'll throw my intro out soon, but thanks everyone for the tons of great posts that made me decide to move up from my 2 sec. DD-5 to the Jamman! Seeya- Ryan, [a stick looper] ---- Ryan Blum "...to play 'Giant Steps' because you can seems lowfrqcy@west.net rediculous to me. I went through that, but ironwood stick #918 I was 14 years old." - John Medeski www.west.net/~lowfrqcy From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:22 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 00:41:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vomco-0006v9-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:41:10 -0800 Date: 27 Jan 97 03:28:42 EST From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: JUANITA C ROCKWELL <74721.1606@CompuServe.COM>, Bob Rockwell , LARRY E ROCKWELL <73642.403@CompuServe.COM>, Ted Rockwell , Angela Cescati , "INTERNET:LSTuttle@aol.com" , Joe Conti , Donn Bree , Nathen Aswell <70702.2552@CompuServe.COM>, "INTERNET:Harpnhorse@aol.com" , Olivier Malhomme , Betty Martin-Finneran , Frank Paul , "\"David G. Stork\"" , Bill Unger <76612.2262@CompuServe.COM>, Kyle Wohlmut , Kim Flint , Guven Guzeldere , Greg Howard , "INTERNET:FrankJ6524@aol.com" , Stickwire , Mark Warr , "INTERNET:cttart@ucdavis.edu" , "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Website UP Message-ID: <970127082841_74164.3703_GHQ46-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"c4E2wC.A.uYG.KnG7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1832 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:41:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 65456283a976ac0de6be45135aa9d3a7 Dear Friends and Family, This is to let you know that I now have a website, with pictures, downloadable Chapman stick music,(A solo piece in which I use the Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro in some innovative ways), essays on the aesthetics of multicultural music, and lots of other good stuff. If you want to see it, go to: www.traktor.com/presents/teed/ reactions and comments would be appreciated. Love to you all. Teed From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:21 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 00:39:39 1997 Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vombG-0006k8-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:39:35 -0800 Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA24228; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 03:30:36 -0500 Date: 27 Jan 97 03:28:42 EST From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: JUANITA C ROCKWELL <74721.1606@CompuServe.COM>, Bob Rockwell , LARRY E ROCKWELL <73642.403@CompuServe.COM>, Ted Rockwell , Angela Cescati , "INTERNET:LSTuttle@aol.com" , Joe Conti , Donn Bree , Nathen Aswell <70702.2552@CompuServe.COM>, "INTERNET:Harpnhorse@aol.com" , Olivier Malhomme , Betty Martin-Finneran , Frank Paul , "\"David G. Stork\"" , Bill Unger <76612.2262@CompuServe.COM>, Kyle Wohlmut , Kim Flint , Guven Guzeldere , Greg Howard , "INTERNET:FrankJ6524@aol.com" , Stickwire , Mark Warr , "INTERNET:cttart@ucdavis.edu" , "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Website UP Message-ID: <970127082841_74164.3703_GHQ46-4@CompuServe.COM> X-UIDL: 653a97de0ac2e73b3546371b5971e260 Dear Friends and Family, This is to let you know that I now have a website, with pictures, downloadable Chapman stick music,(A solo piece in which I use the Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro in some innovative ways), essays on the aesthetics of multicultural music, and lots of other good stuff. If you want to see it, go to: www.traktor.com/presents/teed/ reactions and comments would be appreciated. Love to you all. Teed From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:19 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 00:31:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vomTD-0006MA-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:31:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 02:35:11 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <32EC68BF.673E@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199701260910_MC2-1036-17A9@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"Wo9htD.A.H0F.GdG7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1831 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:31:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 4a94ddf3574a7a30bdba831d011b9caf Michael Peters wrote: > yes, please do, but I think the page for "essential loop recordings" should > only contain recordings which actually use loops or loopy repetitions. I'd also ask that you distinguish between "instrumental" and "vocal" recordings, to the extent that this is possible. I love this thread-- as one very new to the entire concept, I really appreciate some guideposts. :-) John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:27 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 04:24:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voq7L-0007dG-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:24:55 -0800 Message-Id: <9625.199701271222@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:22:47 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Creativity and Technique Resent-Message-ID: <"zPm-WD.A.gCH.H4J7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1833 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:24:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 0e2c9b80a86a54529774d09f533aa054 Paolo: > I partially disagree. What shifts one's art away from expression is > _not_ "too much technique". It is the over-reliance on habits. Playing > the blues box is a habit for some players. Playing a favorite > 3-octave harmonic minor scale pattern is a habit for others. Playing > a favorite diminished arpeggio up and down the fretboard is a habit > for yet others. And so on. > A major component of self-expression is being in control over one's > habits rather than being controlled by them. ....I agree. I try to practise other people's music at the moment, on the pricniple of Adrian Belew's "You tend to improvise what you practise". Until recently I assumed that learning other people's stuff would "dilute my inner voice" whereas what actually happenned was that my limited vocabulary became dull and in-bred. Now I try to cast my net wide, being selective about what I learn - after all, it's going to show up in my playing - to ensure that if I start playing from memory (ie learnt licks, or habits) I have such a wide variety of licks that I don't repeat myself too often. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:28 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 04:36:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voqIe-0000H0-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:36:36 -0800 Message-Id: <9866.199701271234@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:34:00 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: getting into "the zone" Resent-Message-ID: <"gPP32B.A.FK.wDK7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1834 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:36:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 9a8f952afb2daa23154660738578c11e Matthias: >For my sound, reverb is important, too. >Thats why they made the churches high in the middle age. Or do we react on >reverb because generations of monks sang in it and related the sound to... I have listened to Matthias' tape - he's not joking!!! As for looping to be to cerebral to get into "the zone", I don't think so. When I get into that frame of mind I stop thinking anyway. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:29 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 04:59:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voqeN-00014s-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:59:03 -0800 Date: 27 Jan 97 07:55:36 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: re:Greg's help Message-ID: <970127125535_74074.1316_GHQ38-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"R4014C.A.v5.xYK7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1835 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 04:59:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 9463a2497d7ab4d8e87c851156f55107 Hi gang, Just getting back from Europe and finding a huge number of postings in the last week and change. Mostly very cool goings on. But I'd like to specifically comment on Mr. Hogan. He is one of the great natural resources available to Lexicon. He is knowledgeable, thorough, and a complete professional. I suspect that his additions to this list are his own doings, and not as a result of "policy" at Lexicon. After all (at least last I heard) Lexicon doesn't have a policy regarding the internet. Or, more pointedly, has a policy of denial that it is a useful and practical tool. On a personal note: Hi Greg. Hope yer well. Maybe someday I'll get out to the new office... Jon Durant From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:30 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 05:03:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voqif-0001HR-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 05:03:29 -0800 Message-Id: <10482.199701271301@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:01:41 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: creative isolation Resent-Message-ID: <"Mu7H7.A.XGB.qcK7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1836 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 05:03:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 0a1a059ee6855b53992542a53b2e8915 Matthias: >I was not looking for tabula rasa either. The blues licks did not disapear, >but started to sound different in the new surrounding. I love it when I start to hear out-of-context licks appear in my playing, like putting renaissamce recorder peices over blues. >I changed a lot in the portugese ambient. On the slightly different subject of Brazillian Ambient music, Dr. Eduardo Miranda played ("diffused") here a couple of months ago. I didn't really connect to the music though - there was nothing to get hold of, just random-sounding noises. >I started to understand things >german speaking people are not aware off. Usually there is no word in >german for those things. Now, I do not know whether there is no word >because they were not interested or whether people have not been able to >become aware of a "thing" (rather emotions, concepts...) because there was >no name for it. It's often said that language is the philosophy of the people who speak it (or so I'm told). My wife, a linguist, often talks to me of this. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:32 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 05:29:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vor7X-0002OJ-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 05:29:11 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 05:27:21 -0800 (PST) From: Stew Benedict Subject: exact jamman memory specs? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Zz2OhB.A._HC.-0K7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1837 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 05:29:11 -0800 X-UIDL: f1dd7b6d902cdcee9c872fc66280d4ee Does anyone have the exact spec (generic part number - whatever) for the Jamman "zip" memory? I'm struggling with whether to buy a deep-discounted model or hold ou for the 'plex, and the price of the memory will be a factor. I've found some 1x4-60ns Zip for $10 at www.visionsoft.com, Thanks! Stew Benedict From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:34 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 06:04:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vorfz-00044z-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:04:47 -0800 Message-Id: <9701271402.AA09229@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:52:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: slider & pedal for a vortex To: Loopers-Delight , spoticha X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"_sClZC.A.enD.IUL7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1838 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:04:47 -0800 X-UIDL: c4e2fe43e213d014db7f794d6a14fb1f spoticha asked: "greg - How do I use the EV-5 to move between AB to slide/morph? I heard that I can morph between A and B effects but stop along the way - How do I achieve this and can i freeze and store into a register?" Turn the parameter knob to Morph A/B and press the pedal/tap button so that the green LED goes on. The pedal will know allow you to manually control the morph. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:35 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 06:30:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vos4j-0005LQ-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:30:21 -0800 Message-Id: <9701271429.AA09303@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:18:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Greg's help To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"gk5rVB.A.NzE.HtL7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1839 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:30:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 7c0f255a9800dab5cc093611ddf7c44a Matthias stated:" I really appreciate your extended answeres and kind posts, Greg! For products that are out of production, or rather an abandoned product line, I find Lexicons position remarkable, or do you do it out of a personal interest?" Matthias Thanks for the kind comments, Matthias. I take great pride in Lexicons products and our history. You will notice that all of my postings are during business hours Eastern Standard Time. Our official policy is that products are supported for at least five years after they were last shipped from our factory. We will always try to be as helpful as possible to anyone who owns any of our products as it's only common sense that if you satisfy your past customers they will remain to be future customers. I try to respond in as timely manner as possible and I find it personally embarrassing that people are actually surprised when a phone call is returned. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:41 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 06:45:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vosJg-0006Fb-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:45:48 -0800 Message-Id: <9701271443.AA09361@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:32:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: If ya liked them records.... To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"ANSzoD.A.GsF.27L7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1841 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:45:48 -0800 X-UIDL: cb5900d82185c4bb98d0a486b069c556 Kim stated: "Pat Kirtley is a Taylor clinician and the 1995 figerstyle champion, not to mention an avid looper. He wastelling me all about Les Paul's early contributions to delay devices and Chet Atkins current forays into looping." One of Chet Atkins current records is titled "Almost Alone" in which he has a track titled "JAMMAN" which was written with and played on a Lexicon JAMMAN. Mr. Atkins actually called me and asked permission to use the title. I did not have that heart to tell him that he did not need our permission and told him that we would be honored! Greg Lexicon Service From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:37 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 06:40:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vosED-0005rY-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:40:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:37:19 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: RE: Greg's help Resent-Message-ID: <"n65QxD.A.rXF.42L7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1840 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:40:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 7f0a3d4aa42365b6aca6d7d227d7b4a6 Do you expect Lex to support the Jamman that way now ... will you still be carrying the pedals for awhile? paul At 9:18 AM 1/27/97, Hogan, Greg wrote: >Matthias stated:" >I really appreciate your extended answeres and kind posts, Greg! > >For products that are out of production, or rather an abandoned product >line, I find Lexicons position remarkable, or do you do it out of a >personal interest?" > >Matthias > >Thanks for the kind comments, Matthias. I take great pride in Lexicons >products and our history. You will notice that all of my postings are >during business hours Eastern Standard Time. Our official policy is that >products are supported for at least five years after they were last shipped >from our factory. We will always try to be as helpful as possible to anyone >who owns any of our products as it's only common sense that if you satisfy >your past customers they will remain to be future customers. I try to >respond in as timely manner as possible and I find it personally >embarrassing that people are actually surprised when a phone call is >returned. > >Best regards, > >Greg Hogan >Lexicon Customer Service >Phone 617-280-0372 >FAX 617-280-0499 >email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:45 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 07:36:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vot79-0001ih-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:36:55 -0800 Message-Id: <9701271530.AA09593@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:19:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Greg's help To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"bFq9X.A.SVB.tqM7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1842 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:36:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 430493562320c589d318e467a0b9e994 paul asked:" Do you expect Lex to support the Jamman that way now ... will you still be carrying the pedals for awhile?" regarding: At 9:18 AM 1/27/97, Hogan, Greg wrote: >Matthias stated:" >I really appreciate your extended answeres and kind posts, Greg! > >For products that are out of production, or rather an abandoned product >line, I find Lexicons position remarkable, or do you do it out of a >personal interest?" > >Matthias > >Thanks for the kind comments, Matthias. I take great pride in Lexicons >products and our history. You will notice that all of my postings are >during business hours Eastern Standard Time. Our official policy is that >products are supported for at least five years after they were last shipped >from our factory. We will always try to be as helpful as possible to anyone >who owns any of our products as it's only common sense that if you satisfy >your past customers they will remain to be future customers. I try to >respond in as timely manner as possible and I find it personally >embarrassing that people are actually surprised when a phone call is >returned. > >Best regards, > >Greg Hogan >Lexicon Customer Service >Phone 617-280-0372 >FAX 617-280-0499 >email: ghogan@lexicon.com The answer is Yes. From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:53 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 09:01:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vouQw-00015J-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:01:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:50:53 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970127114402_2091742343@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) Resent-Message-ID: <"06bunD.A.EK.q0N7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1845 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:01:26 -0800 X-UIDL: d62b4c44c5722494a389fa1951a5441f include me in the faxing if you could! mike 209 788-6131 From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:54 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 09:14:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vouda-0002P6-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:14:30 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 12:07:33 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701271707.AA26579@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) Resent-Message-ID: <"C0-chC.A.EjB.PDO7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1846 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:14:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 279079ab451e2611bf6a57e10cba9c5c I'd like a fax too, for $199 price of Jamman ... FAX: (215) 573-3880 Thanks, ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 662-7214 (voice) angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:25:03 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 09:22:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voul4-0003CZ-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:22:14 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Mascarini, Rick (Corp)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:17:51 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 35 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"RJKn4B.A.coC.rNO7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1847 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:22:14 -0800 X-UIDL: f24c04bf32298a84a86aa18fc8ebf571 Me too !!! At $199.00 I'll buy a third one of these puppies .... Please include a fax to the '2394' number as well. Regards, Rick Mascarini GE GSO/Information Delivery Services Voice & Fax: 8*235.5187, 518.385.2394 >---------- >From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu[SMTP:angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu] >Sent: Monday, January 27, 1997 12:07 PM >To: Mascarini, Rick (Corp) >Subject: Re: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) > >I'd like a fax too, for $199 price of Jamman ... > >FAX: (215) 573-3880 > >Thanks, > > >____________________________________________________________________________ > >Emmanuel Angel >Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group >University of Pennsylvania >Philadelphia, PA >19104 > >(215) 662-7214 (voice) >angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu > > > From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:25:09 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 09:51:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vovD9-00068q-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:51:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:46:11 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman Faxes - was: RE: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TlFjMB.A.f6E.BkO7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1848 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:51:15 -0800 X-UIDL: d996010d29b0b26351bde8ac202496cb > >I'd like a fax too, for $199 price of Jamman ... etc etc... boys, you are going to ruin a good thing very quickly with this. First of all guitar center will probably not be too keen on sending out a fax of a confirmed price for a unit they are blowing out. Once maybe. Twice they will get suspicious. three or more they will stop doing it entirely and even if they do send out a fax or two they will quickly catch on when someone calls them up for the "price" and then no sale comes it to them. GC is not known for customer service in the first place. get the same sales drone twice trying to do this and they'll stop helping you ASAP. even faxing an ad of on of their flyers (without talking to the store) may lead to problems. I have bought stuff from MF and Musician Discount Warehouse a couple times and they usually asked me for the phone number and price of the place selling them. they then made the call and confirmed the price and got back to me. (They never did this with a GC though) When I call up a Sam ash or other chain store I usually get a "come in and buy it" routine. They have been very relcutant to give prices over the phone let alone via fax in writing. That's the way the chains work. The one shot at doing this may be *if* GC is sold out and still has the price advertised. Even then if MF calls them up i wouln't hope for much. Moral of the story: Perhaps we should be buying the units from GC *if* they have them in stock. If they don't and you've got a confrimed price get the Phone # and call MF. They will confrim the price for themselves and you'll get the deal. >> VERY IMPORTANT << here's the kicker to the plan: If MF confirms the price for one of you (either via a call or Fax) get the store they've confirmed it from and the Rep you spoke with at MF. Post it to the list and that way that rep will have the data they need and won't need to repeat check (and perhaps "blow it" with GC) This might work best as the MF rep will also have some incentive to help you because they'll get a bunch of sales from the Loopers list and will hopefully get a bit of commision for their troubles. Just some ideas so everyone can benefit without losing the opportunity. this ;list is small but mighty and if you all cooperate it should work and everyone (including the stores) will be satisfied. heh, the buying power of loopers speaks... good luck! -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:25:14 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 10:02:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vovNk-0007HX-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:02:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:55:25 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) Resent-Message-ID: <"gXN5tD.A.5LG.owO7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1849 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:02:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 46f1806e0354f1386e76c2810a3e75c2 and me as well at 302/577-4359 ... thanks, Paul At 12:07 PM 1/27/97, Emmanuel Angel wrote: >I'd like a fax too, for $199 price of Jamman ... > >FAX: (215) 573-3880 > >Thanks, > > >____________________________________________________________________________ > >Emmanuel Angel >Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group >University of Pennsylvania >Philadelphia, PA >19104 > >(215) 662-7214 (voice) >angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:25:15 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 10:24:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vovjB-0001so-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:24:21 -0800 Message-Id: <9701271822.AA10287@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:12:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: exact jamman memory specs? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"Ymujk.A.bVB.YHP7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1851 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:24:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 58040721e9d899022fb78213f71892d3 Stew Benedict asked:"Does anyone have the exact spec (generic part number - whatever) for the Jamman "zip" memory?" The answer is 1Mega Byte x 4 bits at100 nanoseconds or faster 20 pin zip style DRAM, quantity 4. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:25:16 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 10:25:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vovjw-0001xk-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:25:08 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:42:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Echoplex Pedal Needed Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ZZGMM.A.FDB.2EP7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1850 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:25:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 17d1c9d7fd24c5b684dc61b862f4c27e At 4:04 PM 1/26/97, James Reynolds wrote: >>>A friend is wanting to buy an Echoplex from Washington Music Center, but in >>>the past month they have been unable to produce the pedal to go with it. >>>They say it is on back order. Is this generally a production issue? Any >>>suggestions where he might find both? Or just the pedal? >> >>Make your own. Its really simple and for a lower price you can do it >>better, and according to your taste and needs, easily. >> >>Kim gave a lot of explanations on the site, if its not enough, keep asking. >> > >if anyone else is planning on or has actually made a pedal, i'm planning on >making a combo floor pedal for my jamperson and vortex (my plex pedal works >fine but the lexicon pedals are flimsy). i'm trying to track down some >solid, reasonably priced, industrial momentary pushbutton switches to use in >the thing. since they need to be used for tapping tempos and such, the >action can't be too stiff. if anyone has had any success in this endeavor >or can offer recommendations, let me know! > This is probably not quite what you're looking for, but I've been using a double sustain pedal setup that came with one of my keyboards to control the J-Man, 2 piano-style pedals with a stereo cord. It seems to be easier to engage the loop in rhythm using this instead of the standard cheapo switch that comes from lexicon. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 23:02:07 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 13:04:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voyEC-0001tQ-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:04:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:59:51 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Jamman Faxes - was: RE: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) Resent-Message-ID: <"67YUnC.A.KaB.ndR7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1853 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:04:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 2cd93d476a67d197ebf800ee34598b9a spoke with MF and they are willing to go to $319 I believe ... would not match GC price since they way their inventory was purchased before the close-out Paul At 2:09 PM 1/28/97, nyfac wrote: >> If MF confirms the price for one of you (either via a call or Fax) >> get the store they've confirmed it from and the Rep you spoke with >> at MF. Post it to the list and that way that rep will have the data they >> need and won't need to repeat check (and perhaps "blow it" with GC) This >> might work best as the MF rep will also have some incentive to help you >> because they'll get a bunch of sales from the Loopers list and will >> hopefully get a bit of commision for their troubles. > >Sounds like a plan. What is the best price that someone has gotten from >their favorite MF salesperson and what is his name? I have been waiting >to get one of these bad boys for a while now and, dammit, I'm sick of >waiting!) > >Trev From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 23:02:15 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 13:31:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0voydf-0004WY-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:30:51 -0800 Message-Id: <32ED1D24.4CAD@n-jcenter.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:24:51 -0500 From: Kem McNair Reply-To: kemmc@aol.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: switching loops a,b,c, in echoplex How? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MHUQaC.A.0cD.jyR7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1854 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:30:51 -0800 X-UIDL: e7bba5f365bf04643b4e795dd290303f Hi. Folks Ive Got an echoplex dig. pro with 16 meg of ram in it. and have been writing killer loops with multi,layers of drums ,guitar,bass & effects. Now I need to do multi.layer loops, a,b,and c of a tune. then be able to change to a,b or c after there written, on the fly and lay the parts to tape. Is this possible? If so, a step by step explanation would be greatly appreciated. Boy It would be nice if oberheim would put a SCSI port on the back of the echoplex to save and load loop samples to a hard drive. That would be really useful in live performance. Thanks for the input KemMc@aol.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 23:02:54 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 17:11:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vp25N-0006oT-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:11:41 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:12:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: RE: Greg's help Resent-Message-ID: <"lZOI9D.A.1CG.vEV7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1856 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:11:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 04462e19d8e8e7460ec142a341ac344c >Thanks for the kind comments, Matthias. I take great pride in Lexicons >products and our history. You will notice that all of my postings are >during business hours Eastern Standard Time. Our official policy is that >products are supported for at least five years after they were last shipped >from our factory. We will always try to be as helpful as possible to anyone >who owns any of our products as it's only common sense that if you satisfy >your past customers they will remain to be future customers. I try to >respond in as timely manner as possible and I find it personally >embarrassing that people are actually surprised when a phone call is >returned. This is like "old fashioned quality" if I dare say so. Ethics do not seem to be in fashion. I hope this policy of LEXICON will be proven to be correct! I am a great Lexicon fan anyway. I went through PCM42, PCM70, LXP15 and ended with PCM80 and PCM90 now. And there never was any problem! The sad thing was that my proposual for a looper back in '88 was not accepted... Thanks again Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 23:03:00 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 19:49:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vp4Xp-0001qU-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:49:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:42:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (mulB nayR) Subject: Re: Sorry, but MF wouldn't give it up for $199.99 Resent-Message-ID: <"yORSF.A.MjB.waX7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1857 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:49:13 -0800 X-UIDL: f3aa8e58aeae678ff14c1a6e5e6fb739 hey again, >Hate to say this, boys and girls, but MF will NOT honor the price match >in this case (at least they didn't with me). Thay say that they have a >little caveat that states they will not honor blow-outs/factory >clearances. yes, sorry for speaking so soon...garsh, someone called me this evening to inform me of that. shouldn't have spoke so soon when all i had was a sales rep's word. again, very sorry, maybe i can set out another better foot later...=) Ryan ---- Ryan Blum "...to play 'Giant Steps' because you can seems lowfrqcy@west.net rediculous to me. I went through that, but ironwood stick #918 I was 14 years old." - John Medeski www.west.net/~lowfrqcy From ???@??? Wed Feb 12 10:32:55 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 12 05:32:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vuen1-0003h5-00; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 05:31:59 -0800 X-Sender: ccohen@popmail.voicenet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:59:37 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ccohen@voicenet.com (Charles Cohen) Subject: $199 Jamman ? Resent-Message-ID: <"nhS03B.A.6SD.UXcAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2097 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 05:31:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 30ea3135d5f501fd6a9542e9de4899bf Could the person who has the GC ad for $199 Jamman's scan it and put it on the Loopers web site so anyone could download it and print it and use it to get a $199 deal from Musicians Friend? **** What's Charles up to? **** http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:11 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 01:24:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vp9md-0003IF-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:24:51 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:20:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"BWT6HD.A.BBD.RWc7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1858 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:24:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ed24d4ef907cf11959fbbcdf2f8b71d >Hi Looping People > >I want to go into looping music. The 'Plex is a desirable machine (and I've >an old Echoplex from the 60's), but I fear the MIDI headache. I hate MIDI. You can hate midi all you like and still use an Echoplex, since you don't need midi to use it! Same with the jamman. Both can be used just fine with the front panel switches or their respective footpedals. Both can also be controlled with midi if you happen to be among the adventurous few willing to try such modern networking architectures. And if you happen to be among the cynical few who hate midi because it is a pathetic joke, ineptly kludged together by a decade of idiots too timid to look around them and notice that modern networking technology passed them by 35 years ago, and now forced upon the world forever by even bigger idiots in Redmond, why then you can happily use your echoplex/jamman without midi too. (oops. where did that come from?) >All my gear is pre-midi, I'm still using CV/gate, triggers, 24p clocks and >FSK code. Being a guitar player, I only use gear designed in the past 5 years or more than 40 years ago. I can't relate to technologies from the 70's, so I don't know what you're talking about here. :-) The plex can sync to pulses, using the BeatSync input. Does that help? > >I'm looking for a simple and solid machine. Probably the plex or jamman would be fine. The trick at the moment, it seems, is finding either one of them available for sale. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:13 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 01:45:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpA6D-0003wX-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:45:05 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:40:53 -0800 To: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM>, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Website UP Resent-Message-ID: <"2U1bDD.A.rnD.Npc7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1859 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:45:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 1190d798e9cb5e4da3c4be8ac8b0fdfb >Dear Friends and Family, > > This is to let you know that I now have a website, with pictures, >downloadable Chapman stick music,(A solo piece in which I use the Oberheim >Echoplex Digital Pro in some innovative ways), essays on the aesthetics of >multicultural music, and lots of other good stuff. If you want to see it, >go to: > > www.traktor.com/presents/teed/ I just checked this out. Interesting stuff... Nice work Teed! If y'all go here: http://www.traktor.com/presents/teed/music.htm You can enjoy Teed's performance with his stick and echoplex. Very nice! A very musical piece of looping..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:16 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 05:53:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpDyN-0004PX-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 05:53:15 -0800 Message-Id: <26297.199701281004@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:04:22 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Anti-MIDI looping (Partially) Resent-Message-ID: <"TGQyqD.A.nBE.6Qg7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1861 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 05:53:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e056f59af0d48901e79f46b5cd8fca9 Anybody aware of a simple, pedal or kit for sending a single program change message? I'm trying to build a footpedal for my JM, and whilst some functions are direct-control, some require MIDI (fade etc). If I could get a cct which just fires the appropriate program change, I avoid the expense of a complete MIDI footboard, and resist any temptation to attempt MIDIfying any prospective Vortex... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:14 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 03:01:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpBIH-0005ze-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 03:01:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 05:58:33 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970128055833_409675473@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jman upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"sREuYC.A.DiF.Ywd7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1860 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 03:01:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 9a184dd393d7cf122f203e497ca6fb2e In a message dated 1/27/97 9:36:39 PM, Trevor (concerning the Jamman) wrote: <> They're readily aveilable through any local electronics store or wharehouse .DON"T go through a music store --mail order or otherwise--you'll get ripped.--Paul From ???@??? Thu Feb 13 00:45:37 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 12 22:48:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vuuxo-00059e-00; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:48:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:14:52 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni2 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TizodB.A.SpE.OirAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2099 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:48:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 5c99a83714b89628d2bee8ab53ffc8ba > >All my gear is pre-midi, I'm still using CV/gate, triggers, 24p clocks and > >FSK code. > > Being a guitar player, I only use gear designed in the past 5 years or more > than 40 years ago. I can't relate to technologies from the 70's, so I don't > know what you're talking about here. :-) Well I do know what you're talking about (I use all that stuff too) but I'm not sure what you mean. :) I use my echoplex live and just push the buttons on the front to get it to do what I want. Are you trying to sync it to something or just have it "play along"? I don't use any midi but I have three drum machines, a slew of processors and a couple cv/gate synths running. I have a submixer going into the echoplex and capture bits of the drums, do live tape loops with the EP by feeding it stuff form a cassette player live, and so on. It fits in rather nicely (we have one of the old 70's echoplexes as well) with all the other gear. I'd say it's a good tool for messing with the old stuff. I guess I should point out I don't want my tape loops synced to the beats as they are mostly vocals or spoken word tapes and I mess with them live a lot. > The plex can sync to pulses, using the BeatSync input. Does that help? My main clock is the standard Roland 24 PPQ Dinsync but I also have a divider running out from a CR8000 drum machine spitting out 24PPQ on a 1/4" jack (this triggers the gate on the synths) I've never tried triggering the EP from this although it *may* work. From what I gathered in the manual the Brothersync input was totally proprietary so I never looked to getting it "sync'd other ways. I didn't even know there was a "beat sync" input. really? I gotta get from behind my synths sometime and see what's going on in the rack more often. If this is what I think it may be it could proabbly take a +5 gate trigger from on of the old CV/gate sequencers or analogue synths. Hmmm, it might be worth a try... -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:46 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 08:17:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0votk7-0004hb-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:17:11 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32EE27AF.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:22:07 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kdf2FD.A.QCE.MQN7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1843 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:17:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 40fd066acabee60f1522eaac3ea55158 > match the price of any other, including the $199.97 Guitar Center > price....quite neat, i think. Hey, is that a published price? I called musician's friend and they said they were going for $350.00 and said that they needed a fax of GC published price. Anyone have the ad? Thanks, Trevor PS- they have twenty left! From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 10:24:50 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 08:26:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0votsl-0005Xd-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:26:07 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32EE29C6.2781@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:31:02 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) References: <32EE27AF.41C6@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CDwn8B.A.6wE.IYN7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1844 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:26:07 -0800 X-UIDL: d30b3b1e181954bf06b3169e73158135 oh yes- my fax number is 212.760.4009 thanks, trevor From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:47:54 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 13:33:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpL9N-0002Qg-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:33:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 10:43:22 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:(un)Soldering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tvGz2C.A.49B.y-m7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1868 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:33:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 7578708f426548d09a16c0748ac7a2d7 >Buy some dedicated soldering wire (about 1mmD) with the flux liquid IN it. >Its common. The flux is necessary to make the contact smooth. Make sure it's ROSIN flux not acid flux. If you accidentally use acid flux, it will eventually damage your device. Rosin flux is designed for electronics and printed circuit boards. bret From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:29 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 09:17:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpH9k-0007Ss-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:17:12 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"QW0nqC.A.BtG.ZPj7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1863 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:17:12 -0800 X-UIDL: d34a1b67f117cbafdd21e9e9258a9c85 >>I want to go into looping music. The 'Plex is a desirable machine (and I've >>an old Echoplex from the 60's), but I fear the MIDI headache. I hate MIDI. > >You can hate midi all you like and still use an Echoplex, since you don't >need midi to use it! Same with the jamman. Both can be used just fine with >the front panel switches or their respective footpedals. Thats it. I do not hate MIDI, but I do not like its limits for playing expression. So I use it only to control parameters of my effects with faders on the flor. That works fine. My Plex is not midied at all. >And if you happen to be among the cynical few who hate midi because it is a >pathetic joke, ineptly kludged together by a decade of idiots too timid to >look around them and notice that modern networking technology passed them >by 35 years ago, and now forced upon the world forever by even bigger >idiots in Redmond, why then you can happily use your echoplex/jamman >without midi too. > >(oops. where did that come from?) :-) These are words from a EE who fought in service for the ZIPI standard which would be much better than MIDI, but probably will not become popular... >>All my gear is pre-midi, I'm still using CV/gate, triggers, 24p clocks and >>FSK code. >The plex can sync to pulses, using the BeatSync input. Does that help? Sure! You can sycronize it that way with the analog sequencer, sending out a trigger once a sequence to the BeatSync. Or reverse, BeatSync can also be configured to put out a trigger once a loop. I doubt the JamMan has this option, does it? Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:27 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 09:17:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpH9a-0007SC-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:17:02 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:37 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: (un)Soldering Resent-Message-ID: <"FB1MwD.A.dvG.vPj7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1864 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:17:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 464813baa9c0f990a86d90563424699f Olivier was searching for help, and I post this to the list, hoping that others might want to learn about soldering. If you do not want to solder at all, consider changing your mind, it helps saving money and making strange cables on the spot. If you know all about it, delete. >Well yes. I eventually end up unscrewing the vortex with the soldering >iron in the other hand and... I'll be pretty ridiculous... You sure take your time to gather curage :-) The faulty pot >is solderred by 6 points. I spent 1 hour tryng to unsolder the bad one.. >And never succeeded (I told you I was to look like an idiot!) How do you >people used with electronic stuff do to unsolder a thing with many >soldering points? Of course each time I had one unsoldered, the pot was >still firmy attached by the 5 others, and the time to get an other one dne >the first was already cold again. I should have told you: there are three tools: -One is a special wire, cheap that sucks the solder (capilary effect or so). You just hold it on the solder, heat it up, and when the solder is in the wire, you cut that piece and trow it away. -Two is a small vacuum pump. Its cost like 10$ and might work a little better. You heat the solder, hold the pump on it, press its button and shluppp, the solder is sucked it -Three is the best, but expensive. It is a solder iron with a canal in its tip and a pump behind. If all fails, you will have to go to a rep to use this machine. >My pityfull attempts led to nothing but signs of fatigue on the mother >board. This is a serious problem. The solder lugs can come off the board, especially when forcing it while its hot. Once it happened you can still fix it, reforcing with plain wire. >Because I was quite lucky, this petty work led to -I suppose- over >heating the faulty pot that now works perfectly (!!!). You are lucky really. I had a case with a Eventide unit, where the flux was hindering the oscilator. Heating it resolved the problem forever. I doubt that this is your case, though... >The soldering metal did not came with the iron Buy some dedicated soldering wire (about 1mmD) with the flux liquid IN it. Its common. The flux is necessary to make the contact smooth. For a good solder point, you heat the point, add the wire, and as soon as it flows nice and filled the point, you go away with the soldering iron. If you have to heat it longer to put things in place, give it another bit of the soldering wire in the end, so its flux finishes up again, to make a shiny smooth little heap. The opaque ones tend to fail after some years... > there is metal on both >sides of the mother board. One side is not possibl to access beacise of >the pot themselves. With the tools above, you can suck it through the whole, but its not very easy. >God knows I feel so ridiculous... Never mind. But its good to know a bit about soldering. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:30 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 09:17:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpH9o-0007TR-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:17:16 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:45 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: switching loops a,b,c, in echoplex How? Resent-Message-ID: <"BIanR.A.RxG.-Pj7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1865 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:17:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 5a82253201eeb45c4d45c4673fc4bdee KemMc asked: >Hi. Folks >Ive Got an echoplex dig. pro with 16 meg of ram in it. and have been >writing killer loops with multi,layers of drums ,guitar,bass & >effects. let us hear those, please, I never heard a "killer loop" :-). There is a comunity CD project going on the list. Ray Peck is kindly doing the compilation. >Now I need to do multi.layer loops, a,b,and c of a tune. then >be able to change to a,b or c after there written, on the fly and lay >the parts to tape. Is this possible? I would love to help you, but could not quite understand the problem. You are using NEXT to lay down the parts in separate loops, which you manage to do, right? And now you want to copy a sequence of those parts to tape, is that it? So while playing one loop, you want to switch to the next - well, thats NEXT... Explain! >Boy It would be nice if >oberheim would put a SCSI port on the back of the echoplex to save and >load loop samples to a hard drive. That would be really useful >in live performance. We all dream of that. But the price might be in the range where its smarter to use a computer right away. But there is no LOOP software to it. This has been discussed in the beginning of this list, you find it in the archive. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:47:18 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 10:15:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpI42-0003oF-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:15:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:35:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping (Partially) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vJS9sB.A.oKD.uDk7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1866 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:15:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 1ea9ca08925a62d3814aa05fceee2360 At 2:04 AM 1/28/97, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: >Anybody aware of a simple, pedal or kit for sending a single program change >message? I'm trying to build a footpedal for my JM, and whilst some >functions are direct-control, some require MIDI (fade etc). If I could >get a cct which just fires the appropriate program change, I avoid the >expense of a complete MIDI footboard, and resist any temptation to attempt >MIDIfying any prospective Vortex... > >Michael > I have an ART X-11 foot controller that works great w/ the jamman. It only sends program changes, can't be programmed, but it's really simple, just 7 foot switches, a 2-digit LED, and a horrid purple/silver on black paintjob. Got mine from a friend for $25 bucks a few years ago, don't think they're made anymore, but you might find one used. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Jan 27 23:01:51 1997 >From kflint Mon Jan 27 11:05:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vowMb-0005tU-00; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:05:05 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32EE4EFC.3F54@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:09:48 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jamman Faxes - was: RE: Musicians Friend $199 JamMan (kinda) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8P7uTD.A.BJF.vtP7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1852 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:05:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 29892e9ec808ebe6f5bbfd70c5ee5bd5 > If MF confirms the price for one of you (either via a call or Fax) > get the store they've confirmed it from and the Rep you spoke with > at MF. Post it to the list and that way that rep will have the data they > need and won't need to repeat check (and perhaps "blow it" with GC) This > might work best as the MF rep will also have some incentive to help you > because they'll get a bunch of sales from the Loopers list and will > hopefully get a bit of commision for their troubles. Sounds like a plan. What is the best price that someone has gotten from their favorite MF salesperson and what is his name? I have been waiting to get one of these bad boys for a while now and, dammit, I'm sick of waiting!) Trev From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:48:34 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 17:52:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpPC7-00057a-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:52:11 -0800 X-Sender: vajra1@pop3.mho.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:21:08 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) Subject: Re: Diethelm's delay Resent-Message-ID: <"XGhAHC.A.MnE.vyq7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1871 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:52:11 -0800 X-UIDL: a3c863804979488295e761318a02bbfa > Re....Thomas Dielhelm is a nylon guitar player that made some success in >Europe, >about 10 years ago using a particular kind of "looping".... Sounds VERY interesting. Thanx for the tip! Do you have a line on where, what label, etc. his recordings can be found? > From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:47:45 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 12:49:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpKT6-0006mE-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:49:24 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:38:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701281938.LAA18157@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199701210323.TAA24020@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: beyond:what, or whom? re-sent: faulty slip.net Resent-Message-ID: <"0YU56C.A.ULG.MXm7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1867 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:49:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e940c25d022bd0a987ffae51c6d25e4 Paolo Valladolid writes: >I stopped listening to the radio. Today, I only listen to the radio >for football games. ^_^ There is good radio around. Most of it is called "college radio". Cf. my show's web pages: http://www-kzsu.stanford.edu/~everett/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:48:03 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 13:38:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpLEx-0002tK-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:38:51 -0800 From: kbp@imaginet.fr X-Sender: kbp@mail2.imaginet.fr Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:36:59 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Replies to Anti-MIDI thread Resent-Message-ID: <"ud4wfB.A.GfC.IFn7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1869 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:38:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 27ff1df98bdad0572036584f67b64d3d Kim Flint wrote : > The plex can sync to pulses, using the BeatSync input. Does that help? Indeed, it does a lot : that means I could sync the 'plex from a trigger, no need of a Clock-to-Midi converter. Matthias Grobs' confirmation : > Sure! You can sycronize it that way with the analog sequencer, sending out > a trigger once a sequence to the BeatSync. Or reverse, BeatSync can also be > configured to put out a trigger once a loop. > I doubt the JamMan has this option, does it? I doubt too. A friend of mine has a JamMan. As the guy is another Midi-opponent and analog activist (he built his own modular systems), if the JamMan had this option, he would have soon discovered it and talked me about. Thank you very much for your replies. (I may get a 'plex next week, I'll test this interesting BeatSync feature) Regards Pierre Cazenave From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:17 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 05:27:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpa3R-0005i5-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 05:27:57 -0800 Message-Id: <9701291326.AA16134@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:43:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"x0NsQ.A.TNF.a907y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1875 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 05:27:57 -0800 X-UIDL: aac807eb15b8d2c1d9f14e2c3e29f28d In response to: ">The plex can sync to pulses, using the BeatSync input. Does that help?" Matthias said: Sure! You can synchronize it that way with the analog sequencer, sending out a trigger once a sequence to the BeatSync. Or reverse, BeatSync can also be configured to put out a trigger once a loop." and then asked: "I doubt the JamMan has this option, does it?" No, the JAMMAN will only sync in forward to MIDI clock only. From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:48:21 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 15:27:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpMvd-0002sz-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:27:01 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:29:57 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Diethelm's delay Resent-Message-ID: <"QBaNQB.A.VeC.Pqo7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1870 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:27:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 91e8689083ac7d2bb25d75aec4c2a22b Thomas Dielhelm is a nylon guitar player that made some success in Europe, about 10 years ago using a particular kind of "looping" He was rather of the individual kind, had his own strong style (literaly, he was a champion in spear throwing, before dedicating to the guitar!), virtuoso as long as playing his own compositions and using his AMS pitch shifter (to be fair: the first record he made without it). His main technique was to set up a pattern of delayed pitch transpositions. So each note he played turned into a short melody of 2 to 6 notes. For each song, he used specific patterns and composed using the delayed transposed notes. This may sounds trivial, but once you listen to his records (about 6 of them, "valys in my head" I would recommend most) you get impressed how far he went with this technique. Often he quickly alternated between chords and melody playing and with the delay of each, chords and melody were constantely present and due to the pitch shift, there was no impression of repetition. The limitation of this technique made him creative in terms of composition and gave his own sound. Two of the records he made in team with one of the best swiss keyboarders called Famulari, the others feature a good band. He used to have a lot of trouble with the expensive and sensible AMS studio machine that used to fail before important concerts and since he completely depended on it, this might even have considerabely contributed to the end of his career. As far as I know he sells dried spiced fish now (he is a brilliant cook, too). Anyway: Today he could use a PCM80 for this purpose, I think. With the pitch card to it you can set up to 4 voices with individual pitch, delay, pan and feedback. Since the delay can be controlled as a rate of an incoming MIDIclock or Tap key, it is a lot more flexible than the AMS was, and the melody pattern can be synced to a looper. There must be other effect units doing a similar job. There is a question to Greg: The memory of the PCM80 is expandable to about 40 seconds, but only for some of the algorithms. (Why?) I cannot find the information for the pitch algorithms, or is none of them extendable beyond 1.2 seconds? From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:48:40 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 20:33:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpRiW-0006wh-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:33:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:29:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199701290429.UAA29766@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: beyond:what, or whom? re-sent: faulty slip.net Resent-Message-ID: <"lJPh7C.A.rVG.nJt7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1872 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:33:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 6a79e238664dd3fc873ba5c96a877656 >There is good radio around. Most of it is called "college radio". > >Cf. my show's web pages: > >http://www-kzsu.stanford.edu/~everett/ > > it's true, radio is generally evil. however, in the SF Bay Area, the few spots of brilliance in this sea of travesty are the excellent college radio stations, KZSU Stanford 90.1 (great station, ray!), KALX Berkeley 90.7, and KFJC Foothill College 89.7. of course, the nature of college radio is that the music is either sublime or or a crime against humanity, but the sublime stuff makes it worth it... james From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 22:48:48 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 22:47:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpTnd-0006he-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:47:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:44:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701290644.BAA06478@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Live loops + digital guitar... Resent-Message-ID: <"YxRpF.A.HLG.DIv7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1873 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:47:13 -0800 X-UIDL: c127a7f8e6a1f691d616277c234b027a hey all: if you're in the NJ area - i'll be doing some live digital guitar with lotsa looping - i have a casio and i control an ensoniq sampler and yamaha, kawai synths. I perform in a duo called JFK's LSD-UFO and the other musician plays digaital and acoustic drums and sampler/synth. Lots of loops, strange sounds, noise and wonderment. Also on the bill is a guitar/violin duet featuring original GONG violinist Dietrich Wiessler...and SILENT records' "operation mindwipe" So, e-mail me if you're interested !!! The show is at the Brighton Bar, Longbranch NJ 908 - 222-9684 Thur Jan 30 9:30 pm Also - i'm interested in putting on dig-guitar shows in NJ in general.... keep digitizin' andre' From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 03:10:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 23:12:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpUC5-0000H2-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:12:29 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:07:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Jman upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"2c8aKC.A.gG.sfv7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1874 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:12:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 524a552a91c0c4d21a27ca0c2f111910 >PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote: >> >> In a message dated 1/27/97 9:36:39 PM, Trevor (concerning the Jamman) wrote: >> >> <> >> >> They're readily aveilable through any local electronics store or wharehouse >> .DON"T go through a music store --mail order or otherwise--you'll get >> ripped.--Paul > > >Thanks, man. Do you have any favorites? Anyone? > >I would say that maybe we should put some of this info on the page, but >considering that I doubt there will many non-upgraded JamPeople in this >group. I have seen these questions before, but I never seem to catch >the answers. I'd love to put such info on the Looper's Delight jamman page. (actually, I'd love it even more if some industrious jamman user were to volunteer to make us a good jamman section on the LD site!) The question has come up a lot, so don't assume it won't help people out. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 28 09:56:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Jan 28 06:18:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpEMi-0005QY-00; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:18:24 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32EF5659.167E@nyfac.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:53:29 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jman upgrades References: <970128055833_409675473@emout04.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"s7vtBB.A.E_E.8og7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1862 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:18:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e9d8e4d7815d0c7f41f93bcc076be61 PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/27/97 9:36:39 PM, Trevor (concerning the Jamman) wrote: > > <> > > They're readily aveilable through any local electronics store or wharehouse > .DON"T go through a music store --mail order or otherwise--you'll get > ripped.--Paul Thanks, man. Do you have any favorites? Anyone? I would say that maybe we should put some of this info on the page, but considering that I doubt there will many non-upgraded JamPeople in this group. I have seen these questions before, but I never seem to catch the answers. Trev From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:22 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 06:50:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpbL1-0000tH-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:50:11 -0800 Message-Id: <9701291450.AA16520@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:39:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: PCM80 expanded delay time To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"Hb8NZB.A.du.-M27y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1877 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:50:11 -0800 X-UIDL: af28381d263c21b0fc9c58231e4b7e8d "The memory of the PCM80 is expandable to about 40 seconds, but only for some of the algorithms. (Why?) I cannot find the information for the pitch algorithms, or is none of them extendable beyond 1.2 seconds?" The extended memory is for the delays that utilize the 56K processor within the PCM80. Because the pitch shift algorithms use the 56K intensively the processor does not have access to the extended memory. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:26 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 07:11:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpbfS-0001oT-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 07:11:18 -0800 Message-Id: <9701291502.AA16554@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:51:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Anti-MIDI looping To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"jSiR-C.A.mlB.Tg27y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1878 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 07:11:18 -0800 X-UIDL: db6c5d851bd2ecaf02544dc38d2ba531 Pierre Cazenave said: "An interesting article in the Loopers-Delight pages mention a modification of the Lexicon PCM42 which make it able to sync with a 24p clocks. I you know more about, e-mail me. Merci" Bonjour, I do not know anything about a modification for clock input of the PCM42 but a nonmodified PCM42 does provide clock output. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:34 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 08:09:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpcZv-0004n1-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:09:39 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970129155923.006e6204@mail.ndirect.co.uk> X-Sender: fish@mail.ndirect.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:00:07 +0000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Fish Subject: Another new member Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"btc8kB.A.x3D.UP37y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1879 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:09:39 -0800 X-UIDL: d1b219196804e0b27c290b5c1ab260c0 Hi, I just joined today. I'm not to clear on the meaning of looping, but I assume it means either feedback loops or using sampler loops. Either way I'm interested! :) I have a question regarding the Roland Space Echo 201. Is there any way I can mod it so that it will only play the delayed sound, and totally cut out the clean signal? I set up a loop for our guitarist which consists of: Guitar-->--Mixer--->---SE201--->---Phaser/Wah/BPFilters--->---Mixer---Out | |____________________<______________________| | |_____________________________>_____________________________| The problem is that the SE201 lets through some of the clean signal which means I have to keep the feedback really low or it squeals. Also, can someone point me in the right direction for some info on the Lexicon Vortex? I've read some interesting things, but I want pictures and samples! Is this box available in the UK yet? If so, where, how much, etc. BTW, I saw Fripp in London a few months ago. He was really cool. He spent most of his time wandering about the venue; Occasionally he'd get to his guitar, play a few notes, and then just let the textures just unfold over another 20 minutes while he'd go back to the bar. :) - fish@ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground. From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:52 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 09:56:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpeFl-0004fY-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:56:57 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970129170632.00693ce0@mail.ndirect.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:57:03 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: New members Resent-Message-ID: <"cvCIoC.A.cME.V747y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1883 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:56:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 55f8dca04dbc566b675b5c3dbb3d0ac9 Hello Kim , I've noticed a lot of new names popping up on the list lately and I'm curious to know how many people are currently subscribed to the list. Do you know? Also I was wondering if it would be a good thing to compile some sort of general FAQ about the list and or looping with some useful links which would be helpful for new members, maybe it could be sent out with the welcome notice that gets sent to new subscribers . I 'll offer to compile it and send it to you or Michael Peters to edit, proofread, HTML-ize, etc. If you want me to do this let me know, but I'll need everyone on the list to help me to figure out what the most FAQs are and what or where the answers are. Loopily yours Ed From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:48 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 09:35:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpduo-0002sF-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:35:18 -0800 Message-Id: <9701291730.AA17305@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:19:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Another new member To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"-0jMzC.A.UjC.Wn47y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1881 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:35:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 827d80ac3261099d0fde31276424115c fish asked: "Also, can someone point me in the right direction for some info on the Lexicon Vortex? I've read some interesting things, but I want pictures and samples! Is this box available in the UK yet? If so, where, how much, etc." I know that there is a picture of the Vortex on the WEB somewhere but I am not sure where. A number of things will come up if you use Lexicon Vortex as a keyword on most search engines. Our distributor for the U.K. is Stirling Audio, phone #71-624-6000. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:47 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 09:27:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpdmq-0002GN-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:27:04 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970129170632.00693ce0@mail.ndirect.co.uk> X-Sender: fish@mail.ndirect.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:24:46 +0000 To: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) From: Fish Subject: Re: Another new member Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HmSAND.A.-2B.0e47y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1880 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:27:04 -0800 X-UIDL: b26c674775827d8d5f120801b9d1d860 At 10:55 29/01/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi. Check out the Vortex and Jamman sections, and the back digests in the >archives at the Loopers delight site. Lots of info. Also be aware , not >sure as far as UK availability goes, but the Vortex has been discontinued Why did they discontinue them? Does anyone is the US know a shop selling them who will do mail order overseas? Thanks - fish@ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground. From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:51 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 09:45:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpe4L-0003jI-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:45:09 -0800 Message-Id: <9701291745.AA17345@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:34:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Another new member To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"dS0N3.A.0RD.Sw47y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1882 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:45:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 3994d969c4b7015665ad7d15d502c296 In response to: ">Hi. Check out the Vortex and Jamman sections, and the back digests in the >archives at the Loopers delight site. Lots of info. Also be aware , not >sure as far as UK availability goes, but the Vortex has been discontinued" fish asked: "Why did they discontinue them? It seems that we were unable to generate a lot of interest in these products until after we stopped manufacturing them. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 11:22:58 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 11:03:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpfHo-0001pL-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:03:08 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Vortex link Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:57:29 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 8 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"M2W50.A.CYB.f357y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1884 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:03:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 95637c6db1e790ab6fe8396c4635cd95 There is a Vortex page at: http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Lexicon/Vortex-spec.html later >john From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:39:11 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 11:28:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpfgE-0003sR-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:28:22 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:22:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: New members Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQdgdD.A.lZD.qQ67y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1885 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:28:22 -0800 X-UIDL: b877942bef4da7280421d4355f48aefa Ed Drake said: >Hello > Kim , I've noticed a lot of new names popping up on the list lately >and I'm curious to know how many people are currently subscribed to the >list. Do you know? We're now up to 125! Bigger than I thought, but it has been growing steadily. New people are coming all the time. The web site is up to about 1000 page downloads a week. The best week for the web site was the second week of January, with 1101 pages downloaded. (that number seems more useful than total hits, which includes graphics, error messages, etc.) Looper's has only been alive about 5 months now, so the growth has been pretty impressive. Especially since I've never really done much to promote it. So hey, tell a friend.... >Also I was wondering if it would be a good thing to >compile some sort of general FAQ about the list and or looping with some >useful links which would be helpful for new members, maybe it could be sent >out with the welcome notice that gets sent to new subscribers . I 'll offer >to compile it and send it to you or Michael Peters to edit, proofread, >HTML-ize, etc. If you want me to do this let me know, but I'll need >everyone on the list to help me to figure out what the most FAQs are and >what or where the answers are. > >Loopily yours Ed I think this is a fantastic idea! This whole thing lives by users thinking up new ideas and jumping in to get them done. I love it, it's made Looper's a million times better than I could ever do myself. Please go right ahead and do this, Ed. You have my permission to freely coerce and cojole others into helping you out too. :-) thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 10:03:21 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 06:47:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpbIP-0000io-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:47:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199701291444.AA283179048@hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: new member Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 15:45:34 -0500 From: Markus X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 Resent-Message-ID: <"7ZgRfD.A.Ud.5H27y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1876 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:47:29 -0800 X-UIDL: b5a2ccdfc312ab2db5a8f8a6e64decd1 -- [ From: Markus * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Hi there! I am new to the list, I'd like to introduce myself... I am Markus Reuter, a Warr Guitar player and looper from Germany. My looping device is the Oberheim Echoplex. I am currently waiting for the simms to update the plex to 16mb. Other devices I use are: SansAmp GT2, Digitech TSR-12, Alesis Q2. I am currently involved in three groups/projects: - 'Trio GitarriStick', based in Cologne, with the famous *Michael Peters* and Leander Reininghaus. - 'Europa String Choir' based in Salisbury, England and - 'CENTROZOON', my main vehicle for looping. A three piece electronic free-improv ambient/trance-group. Well, that's it. I am looking forward to being a member of this forum!! Cheers!! -- Markus Reuter ------------------------TSG-8-Warr Guitar---- Ellerstr. 36, 33615 Bielefeld, Germany,Tel. 0521/138356---- email: mreuter@post.uni-bielefeld.de ---------------------- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/markus.htm ----------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:39:40 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 13:12:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vphJB-0003eg-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:12:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:08:59 -0500 (EST) From: KemMc@aol.com Message-ID: <970129143911_442992335@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: switching loops a,b,c, in echoplex How? Resent-Message-ID: <"u2ByW.A.6ND.hy77y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1887 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:12:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 21258b7116c2eb7d8ffd10a772490e0d Matthias, thanks, but Kim wrote me back and made it very clear, what to do , with the loops A,b,c .I tried it last night and it worked great. You guys a great thanks Kem McNair P.s. I'll contact ray peck about the killer loops for the cd thanks again From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:39:53 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 13:39:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vphj6-0005f5-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:39:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:32:05 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Vortex link To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701291632_MC2-106B-5BBC@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"aZbZfC.A.D5E.MJ87y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1888 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:39:28 -0800 X-UIDL: aced494013d8ba40f72cf0b78191495f John Ott sez, > There is a Vortex page at: > http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Lexicon/Vortex-spec.html whoa! just checked out this site - it's full of goodies, and we should set up several links to it! why not make use of all of those valuable infos available on the net! Kim? There are pages dedicated to the Boomerang, the Jamman, and lots of other interesting boxes, including even some info about the Echoplex ... http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Oberheim/Echoplex-01.html Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never pistle while you whee) From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:39:35 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 12:53:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vph0L-0002CI-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:53:13 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:53:51 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Diethelm's delay Resent-Message-ID: <"CgScPB.A.orB.wd77y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1886 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:53:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 91f7fb0f98ca87d1286ede3fc8fea52b >> Re....Thomas Dielhelm is a nylon guitar player that made some success in >>Europe, >>about 10 years ago using a particular kind of "looping".... > >Sounds VERY interesting. Thanx for the tip! Do you have a line on where, >what label, etc. his recordings can be found? >> Fink und Star Productions, ZŸrich / Polygram CH Tell me what you find. I would like to get some of his CD, too. I might also write to him - or you may... where are you? From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:40:24 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 15:55:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpjqe-0007So-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:55:24 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:50:51 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Another new member(we ain't dead yet) Resent-Message-ID: <"tR3d7B.A.FuG._J-7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1889 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:55:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 3970421a82ec7ce6191f686f04e3364d ghogan@lexicon.com wrote: > >It seems that we were unable to generate a lot of interest in these products >until after we stopped manufacturing them. neato says: why so final???seems like a bigger better mousetrap (looper) may be just what's needed! seems kind of strange to backout on the eve of what seems to be the revolution...back to the drawing board boys cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:40:26 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 16:06:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpk1Z-0000Ya-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:06:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:01:52 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New members Resent-Message-ID: <"6qlA-.A.wK.4T-7y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1890 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:06:41 -0800 X-UIDL: d4638c51b70a1b6bd660945f69ed77a9 kflint@annihilist.com wrote: The best week for the web site was the second >week of January, with 1101 pages downloaded. (that number seems more useful >than total hits, which includes graphics, error messages, etc.) neato says: of course...that was when you posted a reply to the ambient newsgroup regarding a question about looping...that's when i found out about this list, as well as countless others i'm sure...perhaps a few more posts along those lines will show just how many people interested in looping are really out here cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:40:38 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 19:33:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpnF8-0006sl-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:32:54 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 22:31:39 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: Request for FAQ info Resent-Message-ID: <"kR6MrB.A.LOG.MWB8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1891 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:32:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 9a1e3191258cdb9c8939a014ce139ed4 Hello all you loopers As I said in my earlier post I'm going to try and compile sort sort of general FAQ about the list and looping, I guess mostly for newbies to see what we are all about. I'm going to reread some of the stuff from the archives to get some ideas but in the meantime I'm open to suggestions for this. I was thinking all of you recent subscribers and "oldtimers" could let me know what you would like to have known about when you first subscribed. Obviously this FAQ would include some sort of definition of or explanation of what looping and loop based music are, what types of things we talk about, as well as a few choice links to get people started in exploring the web site. It seems the tools of the trade the Echoplex, Jam Man and the Vortex need to be mentioned as these are probably the most talked about pieces of equipment on the list. Hopefully this won't take me to long to compile as most of the info is on the web site and I don't want to be too redundant with what is already there. This thing doesn't need to be too long either, so please send your suggestions, etc. directly to me. When I feel like I've gotten a good start, I'll post it to the list for everyone to critique. Soon Ed From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:40:52 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 23:19:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpqm9-0004xA-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:19:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:13:54 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Expression on vortex. Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Ol6dS.A.qXE.4oE8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1892 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:19:13 -0800 X-UIDL: f595e50613ee3ca6f952393fc009f7c4 I did an expession pedal with an old shaller volupe pedale costing nothing and very old (made noises when used as volume pedal). I used a Y cord. It worked perfectly. I dunno, I don't mean to insult anyone, but did you press the "tap" button before trying to use the pedal (it must stay lit) Olivier Mlahomme From ???@??? Wed Jan 29 23:40:53 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 23:41:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpr7y-00064M-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:41:46 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:39:16 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: A real knowledge? Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Resent-Message-ID: <"T6t6f.A.siF.qAF8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1893 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:41:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 039a7c8a3ebba1fbaf3fd00fad32198c Ç so each life is different and its about impossible to transfer experience... sad... È. I donÕt believe that. There are just other ways than or pitiful attempts with written words on this list. I mean OK, it is so reducing... But there remain music. I donÕt believe music is a media of comminication sensus stricto but it diffinitely integrate so much of your life we will ever be able to come close to envision, that anyway it is like you tell us ALL THE STORY OF YOUR LIFE when you play and compose. The last thing is we have trouble being able to decode it. Look at this canadian film on Glenn Gould where he plays a Schoenberg piece. He plays -and record- all the movements (4, I think) not in the right order, without losing at any moment the continuity (does continuity exist?) of the work. It shows in some way to me that we can arrive to a form of real human (vs technic) knwledge thru music. The thing is it promisses to be e real pain to Ç master È. But it is another step to music (ie: instrument technic to technical knowledge, to working on a voice of yours -and here IÕm backing the recent Eno quotation, and donÕt find it cynical- and then learn MAN) Ç The topic of creative isolation is striking a chord with me È. Well I remember (some of you already know that) this M. Karn interview in Bass Player where he said that to work he took an appartment away from family and friends, to get isolated (well I know you did not exactly meant that, but...). He also said that he had not ever bought a CD (was it in the A. Prasad innerviews?). Duh? Or not Duh? Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 00:54:13 1997 >From kflint Wed Jan 29 23:54:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vprK1-0006iD-00; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:54:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:52:00 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Go beyond? Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IZ4xED.A.cMG.nMF8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1894 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:54:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 6d713f793dbae0ac40d4b7d88eda473b Eventually (the topic is not new) I came across the little idea following. Matthias, I think, although you changed it to "besides" I think, that theword "Beyond" was perfectly chosen. At first I mistook the sense like almost everyone here. But In fact we have to go beyond -yes- not Fripp, or anyone (I have a strong reoccuring problem with Allan Holdsworth) just because we have to go beyond the part of these people work wwe have internalised (oh, again does it exist, an I making myself clear?). In a way It has nothing to see with those artists, it is just a problem between ourselves and... ourselves! Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 00:54:23 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 00:12:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vprbh-0007YQ-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:12:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:10:56 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Starting again Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"czkAgD.A.A_G.VeF8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1895 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:12:29 -0800 X-UIDL: b8512fb46202c86b780e0104fd7ff38a Paolo said "X, Y, and Z had pretty much said everything I ever wanted to say on guitar so I stopped playing the guitar. I haven't played it seriously in almost a year now. I mostly played Chapman Stick. Most recently I bought a little drum made in Pakistan, a pair of drumsticks, and have begun practicing some of the 26 standard drum rudiments. At present, I feel like I am on an extended vacation from the guitar. Playing the Stick reminded me of my childhood piano playing experience" Ohhh, but it is your duty to find a way. This is a problem you'll meet again on the Stick, but just later. There a comfortable situation in learning. Since you LEARN things quite basic you don't master, you don't have to work too much on the voice. All the things to do come in a good part from "upstairs" and you don't have too much to invent it. It has been tested and done before, you what you are practicing when you start anew does not require to much mind work and involvement. I think. That's clear that finding this "voice" is as secure as walking a slippery wodd plank with sharks waiting for you under. It is also clear that most of us will never succeed. It is also clear that we will quite all try anyway, as long as possible. That is a kind of grail to me (with this human kwoledge I alked about a few post before). It may be a reason among others of course that make some of us pursue multi intrumentalism. It has also the ablity to distract you from what was before a main axe to "master". As far as psychology is concerned, I think the "beginner status" is more comfortable. You see and seek magic, and you figure, just learn it and work. The more I'll work, the more I'll know, and I'll be a magician myself. Then years later, it looks sometime like crookery. I worked, and again. Am I a magician? not yet. It's been years now, I'm not sure I will ever be. The skills were the easy part. But I'll never stop. Ever. Olivier malhomme From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 01:41:47 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 00:58:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpsKP-0001cE-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:58:41 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:54:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: switching loops a,b,c, in echoplex How? Resent-Message-ID: <"2zAM9C.A.zXB.WJG8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1896 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:58:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 876b28138e2fc93029e45a1de16adc97 At 4:08 PM 1/29/97, KemMc@aol.com wrote: >Matthias, >thanks, but Kim wrote me back and made it very clear, what to do , >with the loops A,b,c .I tried it last night and it worked great. hmmmmm. I intended to reply to this by posting to the list, but somehow only sent it directly to Kem. The dangers of assuming what's in that darned reply-to field.... So I figure the answer's probably interesting for other folks, so here ya go: >Hi. Folks >Ive Got an echoplex dig. pro with 16 meg of ram in it. and have been >writing killer loops with multi,layers of drums ,guitar,bass & >effects. Now I need to do multi.layer loops, a,b,and c of a tune. then >be able to change to a,b or c after there written, on the fly and lay >the parts to tape. Is this possible? I think so, assuming I understand what you are trying to do. A couple things to consider trying to decipher in the manual, and experimenting with yourself: SwitchQuant, which lets you jump to another loop precisely when the current one finishes. SamplerStyle and Midi, which makes switching loops way easier and much more powerful. I guess what you want to do is this: - Set MoreLoops to 3 so that you have three loops ready to go. - Create your loop in loop 1. Go nuts. - hit NextLoop to get to loop #2 - Create the loop 2 loop. - hit next again to get to loop #3 - create your third loop movement in loop 3 - If SwitchQuant is off, each press of Next sends you to the next loop immediately. You arrive in that loop wherever it was when you left it. - If SwitchQuant is on, you press Next and it waits til the loop finishes before jumping to the next one. - During that waiting period you can keep hitting next, so that when the end of the loop comes you jump to whatever loop you like. - If you use a midi keyboard or some other midi controller, you can select the loop that plays by hitting a key. SamplerStyle lets you choose if the loops start at the beginning and play once, keep running, or only play while the key is held down. You can use velocity sensitivity to control the loop volume this way, too. SwitchQuant can be used here to. - So figure out the sequence you want to play the loops in, and how you are going to jump from one to the other. Roll the tape, and go! >If so, a step by step >explanation would be greatly appreciated. Hope that helped. Ask questions if you need to. >Boy It would be nice if >oberheim would put a SCSI port on the back of the echoplex to save and >load loop samples to a hard drive. That would be really useful >in live performance. Oberheim's extensive, highly-trained engineering staff is undoubtedly working feverishly on this and other extraordinary advances right now! It's due to appear on the market sometime in the first or second quarter after hell freezes over... jeez. what the heck is the matter with me tonight? You're right, scsi would be a great addition. A bit unrealistically expensive around the time the echoplex was designed. Maybe one of us will do something like that some day..... >Thanks for the input >KemMc@aol.com sure, no prob. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 01:41:49 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 00:58:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpsKS-0001cY-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:58:44 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:54:06 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: New members Resent-Message-ID: <"48v4lC.A.RYB.ZJG8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1897 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:58:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e598ca8bfda5272786ad8fd1a75fc38 At 7:01 PM 1/29/97, neato@pipeline.com wrote: >kflint@annihilist.com wrote: > The best week for the web site was the second >>week of January, with 1101 pages downloaded. (that number seems more useful >>than total hits, which includes graphics, error messages, etc.) > >neato says: >of course...that was when you posted a reply to the ambient newsgroup >regarding a question about looping...that's when i found out about this >list, as well as countless others i'm sure...perhaps a few more posts along >those lines will show just how many people interested in looping are really >out here I posted to the ambient list? Didn't even know it. Must have been another darned reply-to or reply-to-all mishap. Anyway, great! If any of you know of any other little cache of loopers out there, feel free to invite them to the party. And remember, diversity is a good thing so don't be afraid to look in far away places. (Oh, sometimes they're easy to miss, because they tend to be a bit quiet out there when they feel all alone. Soon as they find this place, it all comes pouring out!) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 01:41:50 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 01:13:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpsZC-0002Gm-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:13:58 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:09:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: RE: Vortex link Resent-Message-ID: <"JpHZwD.A.VDC.JYG8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1898 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:13:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 589363f7ee78914f616998e4966ab5fd >John Ott sez, > >> There is a Vortex page at: >> http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Lexicon/Vortex-spec.html > >whoa! just checked out this site - it's full of goodies, and we should set >up several links to it! >why not make use of all of those valuable infos available on the net! Kim? The jamman page on Looper's Delight (which is just waiting for a patron saint, by the way), has a link there. If we had a vortex page, I would have put in the harmony central link there too. Not being a vortex user, my motivation for using my miniscule amount of free time to create such a page has been low. I'm certain, however, that one of the myriad of vortex enthusiasts here will soon take a break from morphing bleen into fractal just long enough to dish out something for us.....right? > >There are pages dedicated to the Boomerang, the Jamman, and lots of other >interesting boxes, including even some info about the Echoplex ... > >http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Oberheim/Echoplex-01.html yeah that's the one with the error about how memory upgrades cause thermal problems, which I've had to explain a few hundred times! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:11:42 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 06:54:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vptYv-0003xK-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 02:17:45 -0800 Message-Id: <29059.199701301016@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:16:25 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Starting again Resent-Message-ID: <"soS00C.A.epD.mTH8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1899 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 02:17:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 807d866ce2cad4c2624f67a49aaebfa2 Olivier: >As far as psychology is concerned, I think the "beginner status" is more >comfortable. You see and seek magic, and you figure, just learn it and >work. The more I'll work, the more I'll know, and I'll be a magician >myself. Then years later, it looks sometime like crookery. I worked, and >again. Am I a magician? not yet. It's been years now, I'm not sure I will >ever be. The skills were the easy part. But I'll never stop. Ever. Damn, that's eloquent. Ditto from me. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:12:16 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 08:42:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpzYi-0004u1-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:41:56 -0800 Date: 30 Jan 97 09:01:07 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Magic: Finding that voice Message-ID: <970130140106_74074.1316_GHQ93-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ediIa.A.X4D.X3M8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1906 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:41:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 2ba3537a33079d92685bcd9a90a48e6e Thanks Olivier for your eloquent thoughts re: Finding the Magic. It's the constant search that keeps most of us going. And it reminds me of the disturbing arguments I had in my recent past. Back in the dim dark daze of my Lexicon past, I remember having extended arguments with certain peoples there who insisted that the bulk of the "musicians" out there--i.e. potential buying market-- have abosultely no interest in finding a unique voice, and creating new and innovative musics. The certain peoples at Lexland insisted that, indeed, all these "musicians" were seeking was "getting laid". They have no interest in something new, they only want to copy what sold. So, thank you to all who've been sharing with us your secrets of creative magic--I'm thoroughly gratified to encounter so many forward-thinking musicians. May you all find what you're seeking. From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:11:53 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 07:18:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpx9v-00009W-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:08:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970130140430.00c5593c@mail.ndirect.co.uk> X-Sender: fish@mail.ndirect.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:05:39 +0000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Fish Subject: Vortex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SL9pmB.A.YUH.8pK8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1900 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:08:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 2a7ff143f20532935af9db235f602c78 Okay, I think I'm going to have to get one of these gizmos. They're much cheaper in the US (less than 1/2 the price of the UK) so I'll try and get one shipped over. Can anyone tell me what kind of PSU they use? Is it direct mains or a wall wart? BTW, has anyone tried MIDI-fying it? My BassStation has a CV out so I figure maybe I can use that to drive the pedal input... I'll let you know whether it explodes once I've tried it. Thanks - fish@ndirect.co.uk Free multisampled analogues @ http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:12:26 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 09:18:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpxYh-0000wi-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:33:47 -0800 Message-Id: <9701301429.AA20010@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:18:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Another new member(we ain't dead yet To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"M5KXFD.A.1p.C_K8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1901 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:33:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 864b861405e4c4b33ed28d561063bc4c In reply to me saying: ">It seems that we were unable to generate a lot of interest in these products >until after we stopped manufacturing them." neato says: "why so final???seems like a bigger better mousetrap (looper) may be just what's needed! seems kind of strange to backout on the eve of what seems to be the revolution...back to the drawing board boys cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius" Well I would not give up hope. The MPX1 does incorporate a looper, perhaps not the looper everyone is looking for but it shows a sign of us "big boys" not abandoning the concept. The MPX1 also incorporates a number of the Vortex algorithms and even more control over morphing. If you people want to see all of the manufacturers run and create loopers I will tell you what it will take: Not the esoteric kinds of things that we all love to create and listen to because we know what is good, but something that the great unwashed masses can enjoy as well. I hate to say it, but there are not many artists who are musicians-musicians as well as pop stars. Just look at how many different kinds of distortion pedals have become available since the explosion of bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam! Best regards, ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:11:48 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 07:11:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpy9O-00045P-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:11:43 -0800 Message-Id: <9701301500.AA20104@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:50:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Vortex and PCM80 To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"DEX3rB.A.KiD.nlL8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1902 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:11:43 -0800 X-UIDL: b8da28938e4158aa25001b8a29089c3c fish asked about the Vortex: Can anyone tell me what kind of PSU they use? Is it direct mains or a wall wart? BTW, has anyone tried MIDI-fying it? The Vortex uses a wall wart with 9VAC@1amp output. I am not aware of any attempts to MIDIfy one. David Coffin asked me to post a few things about the PCM80 that would be of interest to the list so here is a teaser: Out of the box the PCM80 has 6 voices of Delays of up to 2.73 seconds long. By upgrading with SIMMs modules(not sold by Lexicon) each of these voices can be up to 43.69 seconds long. You have control over each voices level, HF cutoff, feedback and panning and modulation(there are 7 different internal modulation controls which you can assign.) There is also a Master control for Level, HF cutoff, feedback and panning of all the voices simultaneously. There are a myriad of ways that any parameter within this machine can be controlled in real time All of this with the addition of reverb which the delays can run either before, after or through. Any questions? Let me know. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:11:50 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 07:14:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpyBl-0004Hn-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:14:09 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 16:08:44 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Harmonics... Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vyylPC.A.6pD._mL8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1903 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:14:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 646e4599a53c957f838bf4d06d0ee034 Sorry to answer late again... Someone said "Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"?" I used two pitch hifter set on 5th or octave running one into echa other (serial) with feedback. I turned my guitar into an B3. (well, quite, almost, near). Funny sound, because it looks like an organ, but, it is clearly not... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:11:57 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 07:42:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpydb-0006Z2-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:42:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:43:35 -0500 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark) Message-Id: <199701301543.KAA02384@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex CC pedal X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uHDoAD.A.jnF.rAM8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1904 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:42:55 -0800 X-UIDL: e101e0e40b1d13e6602bcdfc07101e7a I know this has been asked before but i dont remember the answer. Which continuous controller pedals work well with the vortex straight out of the box (that is, without having to modifify the pedal)? ThanQ Clark From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:12:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 08:04:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpyyL-000104-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:04:21 -0800 Message-Id: <9701301601.AA20346@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:51:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Vortex CC pedal To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"hh5ADC.A.1Y.5UM8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1905 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:04:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 132fe8ddd2f97dd5d3705399e4ce2dca Clark asked: "Which continuous controller pedals work well with the vortex straight out of the box (that is, without having to modifify the pedal)?" I use a Roland EV5. From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:12:38 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 09:35:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq0OT-0002eH-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:35:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 11:17:20 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701301617.AA09054@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"u0uyo.A.fIC.KrN8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1908 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:35:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 16dbfcc33d53e3d83feddb03242013c9 I'd like to comment on an issue that Greg raises: >If you people want to see all of the manufacturers run and create loopers I >will tell you what it will take: Not the esoteric kinds of things that we >all love to create and listen to because we know what is good, but something >that the great unwashed masses can enjoy as well. I hate to say it, but >there are not many artists who are musicians-musicians as well as pop stars. Most of us, perhaps all of us, know this to be all too true. Great creativity and popular acclaim are not mutually exclusive, but set overlap seems to be quite small. I posit that, despite fantastic technological advances, we live in an era of mediocrity and sameness, perhaps even shallowness. I think there is a great hunger for depth and quality, but I think the pace of late 20th century life makes the search for meaning very costly, perhaps even frivolous. Very often there is not enough time to search beyond the obvious cookie-cutter solutions, so we grab for the salient stimuli that are easily within our grasp. Life seems to work if only we can keep up with the maddening pace of progress, if only we can swim with the pack. Very often this can feel like a no win game. In the face of enormous challenges and enormous potential, the lowest common denominators often rise to the top. >Just look at how many different kinds of distortion pedals have become >available since the explosion of bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam! I know about this phenomenon, having a 12 year old son who pounds this stuff out on his white stratocatser, exclusively. While respecting his individuality and accepting his taste as his own, it is hard not to wish more for him. I'm thrilled to have a kid who has developed a passion for the guitar on his own. But I am saddened when hype outpaces substance and image all but eclipses talent. And I am angered by the huge market which is created and nurtured by large industry: industry without conscience, which is responsible for the mass production of dreck. Although we speak here about music and the almost magical technology that becomes our artist's palette, I cannot help but to be drawn to the bigger picture of the times in which we create. Is it historical "business as usual" that substance gives way to fashion? The 60's did not feel that way to me, but no doubt I am myopic and biased by my own experience. I feel that the US, and perhaps much of the world, has become more conservative since those times. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others. Do we just detach ourselves from the mainstream, and just do what we do? Perhaps this is best. Or do we have a *responsibility* to do more. Some years ago, I studied with a very talented jazz guitarist and soulful human being, Ted Dunbar, at Rutgers University. He used to say that "music will save the world". And he was never speaking figuratively. What do you think? Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 10:12:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 08:58:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vpzoE-0006mG-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:57:58 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:47:11 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970130114407_506381433@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: wanna plex; gotta plex Resent-Message-ID: <"FNiEuC.A.ZqF.aGN8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1907 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:57:58 -0800 X-UIDL: cd834f01b6db11e5d089b5c23bbf88b9 i know that this is definitely the WRONG place to ask, but knowing minds will know. i want a plex. with the foot pedal. memory expansion optional. current budget forbids me buying a new one, so i'm looking at used. i've posted at harmony central as well. i'll be posting to some usenet groups as well. any ideas or hot tips would be greatly appreciated. From ???@??? Thu Jan 30 11:01:13 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 10:30:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq1FP-0006km-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:30:07 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:18:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701301818.KAA10300@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199701290429.UAA29766@dsp.net> Subject: Re: beyond:what, or whom? re-sent: faulty slip.net Resent-Message-ID: <"iO2VF.A.AmF.TZO8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1909 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:30:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 891e23631746dfa3e7983fbff0649180 James Reynolds writes: >of course, the nature of college radio is that the music is either sublime >or or a crime against humanity, but the sublime stuff makes it worth it... Mind if I quote this? I like it a *lot*. From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:00 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 11:35:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq2H4-0003yG-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:35:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:30:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970130135304_1379685035@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: RE: Vortex and PCM80 Resent-Message-ID: <"jVUsR.A.aXD.4bP8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1910 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:35:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 629d5160bbc75b57e3ec101d28bbe294 <<.... here is a teaser: Out of the box the PCM80 has 6 voices of Delays of up to 2.73 seconds long. By upgrading with SIMMs modules(not sold by Lexicon) each of these voices can be up to 43.69 seconds long.... >> WOW...so how does stereo figure in? (and thanks for the glimpse!) dp From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:04 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 11:47:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq2SO-0004vy-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:47:36 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:42:11 -0800 (PST) From: "A.S.P." To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Sampler as Looper In-Reply-To: <9701301429.AA20010@beryllium.lexicon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ziqPK.A.IOE.TmP8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1912 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:47:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b6af9dbab783f3ac7481251d8526b94 One question I have is: Are there any samplers that will work as real time loopers? To me it seems to be a perfect approach - you've got stereo analog to digital conversion, you've got expandable RAM, storage, multiple outs, plus you can use standard MIDI events to trigger/sequence stuff. There were some updates to the later Ensoniq samplers that gave you new effects - wouldn't it be possible to turn an ASR10 into a real time looper? Romeo From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:07 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 12:05:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq2jb-0006N0-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:05:23 -0800 Message-Id: <9701302002.AA21344@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:52:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: RE: Vortex and PCM80 To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"EmpteD.A.LkF.S3P8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1913 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:05:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 87011edcc74a40d86e2351832da46db4 In response to my saying: "<<.... here is a teaser: Out of the box the PCM80 has 6 voices of Delays of up to 2.73 seconds long. By upgrading with SIMMs modules(not sold by Lexicon) each of these voices can be up to 43.69 seconds long.... >>" dp asked: "WOW...so how does stereo figure in?" Each voice has it's own pan parameter with 101 increments from 50L being hard left through center until you get to 50R being hard right. There is also a Master pan which controls the panning of all of the voices simultaneously. Any of these parameters can be controlled in glorious real time via a number of different controllers(any MIDI continuous controller or any of the PCM80s internal modulators). Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 12:04:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq2iI-0006FG-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:04:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970130115659.00c25208@pure.pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pure.pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:57:01 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: Introduction to the loop groop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Aoz2zB.A.roF.E4P8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1914 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:04:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 7ec5642bb3eb55f54a548b677b3c6ea0 The Eternal Golden Braid - yes, the philosophical loopers reading material. Sean Pat Kirtley wrote: >musical ideas. I am fascinated with the idea of recursiveness in general, >as expounded in the books by Douglas Hofstadter, including "Godel, Escher, >and Bach", which I believe should be on the reading shelf of every >(philosophical)looper. And I believe that "chaos" is the future of the > From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:16 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 12:17:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq2uz-0007Lf-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:17:09 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:59:30 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sampler as Looper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Yz-3tB.A.3fG.LCQ8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1916 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:17:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 516e9f5d93e3c458c2759bf3ec603cbc On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, A.S.P. wrote: > One question I have is: Are there any samplers that will work as real time > loopers? To me it seems to be a perfect approach - you've got stereo > analog to digital conversion, you've got expandable RAM, storage, multiple > outs, plus you can use standard MIDI events to trigger/sequence stuff. > > There were some updates to the later Ensoniq samplers that gave you new > effects - wouldn't it be possible to turn an ASR10 into a real time > looper? The main problem with using a standard sampler as a real-time looper is that most of the processes require a certain amount of crunch time -- in other words, there'll be a bit of a delay between the time that you ask a sampler to start playback, reverse the envelope, loop, etc. etc. and the time that the process actually gets carried out. Units like the JamMan and Echoplex are much more limited in terms of what they can do with regards to editing their loops, but what functions they *do* have are essentially instantaneous. Playback begins as soon as you stop recording, reversal occurs immediately, etc. etc. For real-time performance, I'd think that a studio-type sampler would be a wee bit sluggish. --Andre From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:15 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 12:08:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq2mf-0006gM-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:08:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199701302000.PAA01396@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:03:14 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Help me out with the Philly Loop Show! Resent-Message-ID: <"qTG3p.A.o_F.N8P8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1915 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:08:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 35ade8ca3ca2afbd1f6fc03587a14840 Hi Loopers, I've undertaken to stage a show in Philadelphia of four Looper's Delight members. I have a coffeehouse venue lined up for a Saturday in March, and I'd rather not specify that date yet here until it becomes totally firm. Anyway, I'm very excited to be able to put this on, and from the demo tapes I've received I'm looking forward to a night of especially wonderful music. The participants at this time are: Charles Cohen (solo synth) Paul Poplawski (trio: Accidents Will Happen) Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick, with possible percussion) Patrick Smith (trio: Fingerpaint) However, I could use some help. The venue owner has more or less asked me that this show please draw as well as possible. My first question for you guys is simply who would be interested in attending this night as a spectator? After all, you are the natural "target audience" for this show. I'd like to get an early gauge of interest here, if that is possible. Second, I could use some help with writing brief publicity materials for calendar listings and flyers. How is looped music best described to the unfamiliar layman, hopefully in as attractive language as possible? What more might I be able to do or write to rake up some interest from the populace? Looking forward to hearing from all! Jim Speer jspeer@haverford.edu ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:20 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 12:25:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq33R-0000Fs-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:25:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:09:04 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: PERFORMANCE ANNOUNCEMENT: Andre LaFosse Graduation Recital Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jb5_qC.A.vOH.HLQ8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1917 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:25:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 49d4ac24bdd4ef75a272531d2c13db47 Hello folks -- I'm doing the recital thing once again, staging my graduation concert here at Cal Arts. The concert will be on Thursday, February 27, at 8:00 pm. There'll be a somewhat smaller loop content than the last concert I did in October; the first half will be solo electric guitar -- *sans* loops, synths, or anything else -- straight into the amp. Assuming I survive the first half (not a foregone conclusion at this point!), the second portion will feature an ensemble project, which, in testament to my inability to go BEYOND FRIPP, not only rips off the instrumentation of his band but will be playing some of his tunes. (Sorry guys!) The band will consist of a "double duo" featuring myself, my mentor Miroslav Tadic on guitar, and Bryon Holley and David Shaffer on drumsets. The material will include some original composition, Frank Zappa's "Five-Five-FIVE," and three Fripp tunes: "THRAK," "Red," and "21st Century Schizoid Man." There will no doubt be much loopage from both myself and Miroslav to fill in some of the bass-less voids in the instrumentation. Anyone in the LA area (or anyone else who feels like making the trip) is more than welcome to attend. Please e-mail me if you need more information or directions to the school. Thanks for your time. Self-promotional mode now powering down, --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:24 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 13:17:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq3rd-0003o2-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:17:45 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:39:44 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Vortex CC pedal Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"bLbtgB.A.aVD.D9Q8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1918 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:17:45 -0800 X-UIDL: d09129233da43867f51b9a3933ba6701 At 10:43 AM 1/30/97, Clark wrote: >I know this has been asked before but i dont remember the >answer. Which continuous controller pedals work well with >the vortex straight out of the box (that is, without having >to modifify the pedal)? > The Roland EV-5 works fine, as long as you set the rotary pot on the side to "0". ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:29 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 14:07:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq4dz-0007Wq-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:07:43 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970130215934.006c13c0@mail.ndirect.co.uk> X-Sender: fish@mail.ndirect.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 22:01:31 +0000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Fish Subject: Re: Sampler as Looper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"d8kuHB.A.NnG.ipR8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1920 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:07:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 3c5cdd8eb4fff6b5830e1ba7d67fd1db At 11:59 30/01/97 -0800, The Man Himself wrote: >On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, A.S.P. wrote: > >> One question I have is: Are there any samplers that will work as real time >> loopers? To me it seems to be a perfect approach - you've got stereo >> analog to digital conversion, you've got expandable RAM, storage, multiple >> outs, plus you can use standard MIDI events to trigger/sequence stuff. A while a go I posted a lengthly description to the Akai users list of how to set up an S2000/3000 series sampler with the built-in FX board to do feedback loops. It basically involved taking an output and feeding it back into one of the analogue inputs which are patched into the internal FX processor. The FX processor can be a simple EQ and delay, but you can add ring mod, phasers, pitch shiter etc. to the chain internally. What's cool is the 4 band EQ. You can modulate the band frequencies with a slow LFO. With a nice fat source sound you get a crazy evolving effect as the BPFs sweep through the frequencies bringing out harmonics which get fed-back through the loop, to be processed again, by which time the BPF has moved on and a new set of harmonics appear, and so on... - Fish fish@ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 11:39:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq2KG-0004Gt-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:39:12 -0800 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.61 Message-ID: <785@mainstring.win.net> Reply-To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:24:48 Subject: Introduction to the loop groop From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) Resent-Message-ID: <"2jBwZD.A.zvD.lgP8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1911 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:39:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 1f7dfb9e1e1b093812ca168002910922 My name is Pat Kirtley. I stumbled onto the Looper’s Delight web site quite by accident, while I was researching information for an article I was writing about the history and development of echo delay devices. I guess it was fate that I would finally land there and meet you guys. I had the pleasure of meeting Kim F. and Ted Killian at the NAMM show a few weeks ago and discussing electronic audio ideas over lunch. My hat is off to Kim Flint for having the spark and vision to put up the web page. If not for Looper’s Delight, I would never have realized the existence of this small but global community of like-minded musical thinkers and tinkerers. In reading through the material at Looper’s Delight, I was struck with a surprising realization-- I am a looper too, and I have been one since childhood. So, by way of introduction, I will relate the things about myself that will be relevant to the topics discussed here. In my current life, I am a musician. My primary instrument is acoustic guitar. I live in Kentucky. I am the 1995 National Fingerstyle Guitar champion, and I travel internationally doing in-store clinics and demonstrations for Taylor Guitars, and I do concerts. I also have a recording career, with several albums, and I worked for 12 years as a recording studio engineer. Currently, I am busy with touring, producing videos, and recording projects. Occasionally I write articles for some of the guitar mags. Throughout my life I have been fascinated by audio gizmos, gadgets, and concepts, but I am most fascinated by music itself. None of my released recordings feature anything like looping, but the first thing that I ever recorded (and saved a copy of), in 1966, was a set of compositions based on interactions with a tape delay. My main interest in looping at the present is entirely from a creative and philosophical (?!) viewpoint. I don’t know if I am inclined at all to use looping techniques to create "a musical product", but I might someday. Right now it’s just fun to play with, and rewards me with many useful musical ideas. I am fascinated with the idea of recursiveness in general, as expounded in the books by Douglas Hofstadter, including "Godel, Escher, and Bach", which I believe should be on the reading shelf of every (philosophical)looper. And I believe that "chaos" is the future of the universe. :) My musical heroes and influences are a varied bunch, and somewhat different than a lot of the folks in the looper community. --Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Les Paul, Doc Watson, Bach, John Cage, Harry Partch, Wendy Carlos, Jimi Hendrix, Bernard Herrmann, Dave Brubeck, Frank Zappa, Varese, David Crosby, Dvorak, Wes Montgomery, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Dmitri Shastokovitch, Stravinsky, Keith Jarrett-- and others, but I’ll stop there. Of the contemporary guitar-based jazz and experimental loop music makers, I must confess that I have heard nothing whatsoever of their music. So I probably represent some of the other-direction cross-pollination Kim talked about hoping to see among the loopers. I’ve never heard any of the music of Robert Fripp, but I have read some of his writings, and he has some important things to say to musicians. In terms of where my musical parameters lie, suffice to say that I find joy in a great melody, and also I find music in noise. My ever-changing gizmo setup includes a Godin Multiac synth-driver guitar, Roland GR-9, Mackie mixer, Lexicon Jamman, Lexicon Vortex, Alesis and Lexicon reverbs, computer based audio editor, various digital recorders, and REAL tape recorders, which I will never give up. I have gone through many generations of synthesizers, starting with the Minimoog, Buchla, and Arp 2600, and now I have NONE, save for the little GR9. (Guitar strings are the ultimate tone generator!) I look forward to submitting some articles to the looper’s web site when time permits, including a look at some pop-music based looping examples by Chet Atkins, Les Paul, Pierre Bensusan (a monster looper), Andreas Vollenweider, Tim Weissberg, Jon Klemmer, etc., as well as some articles about loop devices and concepts in general. Bye now, it’s good to meet you folks, and carry on loopers! Pat Kirtley web: www.win.net/mainstring From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:27 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 14:06:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq4d5-0007RT-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:06:47 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:26:40 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Sampler as Looper Cc: Loopers-Delight Resent-Message-ID: <"Pcmey.A.riG.2oR8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1919 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:06:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 3f8280b9680fc8424ce9df36a1ad8eda At 11:42 AM 1/30/97, A.S.P. wrote: >One question I have is: Are there any samplers that will work as real time >loopers? To me it seems to be a perfect approach - you've got stereo >analog to digital conversion, you've got expandable RAM, storage, multiple >outs, plus you can use standard MIDI events to trigger/sequence stuff. > I've used a Korg DSM-1 extensively as a (sort of) live (sort of) looping device. The Korg is an ancient 12-bit sampler, with about a minute of total audio memory. I think my techniques will work with just about any sampler that responds to MIDI system exclusive commands, I haven't tried this with any other samplers though. Trust me, this isn't very pretty or easy, and if something like the JamMan had been available when I started, I would have never done this. I use it for live performances where I am sampling/looping/processing sounds made by other musicians. I've programmed a system exclusive control setup for the sampler, both from a computer using opcode's MAX, and from a Peavey PC1600 (I got tired of carrying the computer to gigs, and was able to get about 80% of it's functions from the Peavey). Before the gig, I set up a series of empty looped samples in the sampler, usually in lengths of 4, 2, 1 and 1/2 seconds, to fill the entire memory of the sampler. I also set up a collection of performance patches that apply different filters and modulation to the samples, and assign the samples to different midi channels (the korg will respond to up to 4 channels at once). At the gig, I get audio leads from the other the other musician(s) and hook it up to the Korg's audio in. During the performance, I'll have the other players improvise for a few minutes, while I put the sampler into re-sample mode, and grab their audio. using re-sample mode keeps all the preset looping points and key assignments. After a minute or 2, I've filled up the memory of the sampler and start playing the samples back from a keyboard or the PC1600. This can work really well, one performance with a percussionist playing congas came out especially well. The loop lengths are kind of arbitrary, so it doesn't really work for tight rhthyms, but for the kind of textural free improv I'm involved in, it offers some great possibilities. Since I got the JamMan and Vortex, I'm using the sampler much less for this, but it does have some advantages over a dedicated looper. Firstly, it's polyphonic: I can have 16 simultaneous voices of loops over 4 midi channels. Also, you can apply pitch modulation to the loops, and set up polyrhythms based on the key intervals (a fifth creates a 3/2 polyrhythm, for example). And, if I remember to stick a blank disc in the sampler, I can save the loops for future use (I usually forget, though). But it's not at all intuitive, it took several weeks of tinkering with hexadecimal code to get this system to work. The user interface on the DSM-1 is not at all geared to this kind of stuff, and having to remember all the technical stuff while you're playing is a pain. It can be done though. >There were some updates to the later Ensoniq samplers that gave you new >effects - wouldn't it be possible to turn an ASR10 into a real time >looper? > I've never used an ensoniq sampler very deeply, but the fact that you could re-write the operating system if you wanted always intrigued me. The fact that almost nobody did it implies that it's not a trivial task though. While I'm sort of on the subject, does anyone else on the list play in situation where they're looping the sound of other musicians live? It can make for some very interesting performances, and I feel it's a completely different esthetic from the usual plugging a guitar into a JamMan and looping your own noodlings, though I do plenty of that also. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:34 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 14:23:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq4st-00012j-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:23:07 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 2 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 10:15:42 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"80770:1*"@MHS> Subject: What loopers are left now? Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fFXRHB.A.li.23R8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1921 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:23:07 -0800 X-UIDL: cb9168f8204fc08b9cf92bd077be3e06 G'day all, With the demise of the JamMan, does that leave the Echoplex and Boomerang alone in the looping market? It seems like there's a pretty big gap between these two in terms of cost and capability. BTW, I tried to pick up a JamMan from San Jose GC last week. No luck - they couldn't get their hands on any from other GCs either, even though I offered to pay freight and leave a deposit. I guess that's the end of the cheap JamMen. OTOH, I did buy two Korg Pandoras for $US169 each - it gives me the best distortion/overdriven sound on my Stick that I've heard, and the price is right. Why two of them? Well, here in Oz I've seen them sell secondhand for $A600 (=$US450)... Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:48 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 17:53:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq8AH-0000vN-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:53:17 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:34:38 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Help me out with the Philly Loop Show! In-Reply-To: <199701302000.PAA01396@acc.haverford.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KuHm_C.A.Jd.j8U8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1923 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:53:17 -0800 X-UIDL: d7083a02cdd71c2b13aed37417ab2bab On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 jspeer@haverford.edu wrote: > Second, I could use some help with writing brief publicity materials for > calendar listings and flyers. How is looped music best described to the > unfamiliar layman, hopefully in as attractive language as possible? What > more might I be able to do or write to rake up some interest from the > populace? Be sure to emphasize that it's a live electronic event. Terms like ambient, psychedelic, experimental, and interactive can, depending on the audience, be extremely enticing or horrifically repulsive. (Not having heard any of the performers on the bill, they may also be utterly inapplicable!) If you've got any sorts of interest-piquing quotes regarding either the performers or the methodology, that could be another good approach. My own experience with live looping is that it's very easy to get a good audience reaction, even if the music isn't all that happening, because it's such an unusual way of making music. If and when the form becomes more commonplace, then perhaps the general public will prove less easily seduced by this approach. But in a way we're lucky to be working in this particular era, since there's still a very high novelty value in what we do. The trick, of course, is to lure people in in the first place. Good luck -- I wish I could make the concert, but a 4,000 mile trek is kind of out of the picture right now. Best, --Andre From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:54 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 19:46:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq9vX-00004W-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:46:11 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701310340.TAA13214@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Starting again To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:40:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Olivier Malhomme" at Jan 30, 97 09:10:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rj20d.A.EFH.qmW8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1924 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:46:11 -0800 X-UIDL: b2379c6e3fde71848fdc351b026bf424 Olivier, I have to chime in with the others in saying, "What a fine post!" All I have to add is that despite what Fripp says, I'm into music because it's FUN, dammit, and when the time comes that music is no longer fun for me, then I'm getting off that bus. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:03:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 22:43:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqBos-0006n1-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:47:26 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:42:56 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970131002328_103845006@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Introduction to the loop groop Resent-Message-ID: <"67OHJ.A.fNG.taY8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1925 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:47:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 6f09b5052460f30021d63aa80a7ab92b In a message dated 1/30/97 8:21:41 PM, PKirtley wrote: <> Well, I'M with you about 90% so far...just throw in John Fahey, Joni Mitchell, Ravi Shankar, oh, maybe Djivan Gasparyan, and definitely Bela Bartok, and I think we're getting there... Have you heard KJarrett play the clavichord, btw (CD's called Book of Ways)?? dp From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:03:09 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 23:24:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqDKP-0004T3-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:24:05 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 02:20:26 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Sampler as Looper To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199701310220_MC2-1078-4B5A@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"5sqlb.A.4BE.d2Z8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1926 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:24:05 -0800 X-UIDL: ca3e3c4c7defe741771fa5b7f5bdd1ec Dave: > I use it for live performances where I am sampling/looping/processing > sounds made by other musicians. (...) During the performance, > I'll have the other players improvise for a few minutes, > while I put the sampler into re-sample mode, and grab their audio. reminds me of the old days of Roxy Music when Brian Eno was still in the band. He didn't just wear his feather boa and produce funny sounds on his VCS-3 but also used to secretly record parts of the band performance, then process and playback some of it later during the concert, always making for some sort of surprise. Too bad I never got to see them live. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never pistle while you whee) From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 03:15:36 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 02:09:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqFu8-0003Ea-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 02:09:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:05:37 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: 43.6 sec, six time in stereo? Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v5MSL.A.39C.6Qc8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1927 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 02:09:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 3f09ed4c724b625f3f8b19afe029513f Greg added "Each voice has it's own pan parameter with 101 increments from 50L being hard left through center until you get to 50R being hard right. There is also a Master pan which controls the panning of all of the voices simultaneously. Any of these parameters can be controlled in glorious real time via a number of different controllers(any MIDI continuous controller or any of the PCM80s internal modulators)" AAAAARRGGGH (heart attack) Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:29:08 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 09:11:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqMUs-0004LV-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:11:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199701311706.JAA24354@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Starting again Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 11:08:29 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"-ZIqDB.A.oqD.lai8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1936 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:11:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 25daaf108dfac6c55f58521a296b9807 >All I have to add is that despite what Fripp says, I'm into music >because it's FUN, dammit, and when the time comes that music is no longer >fun for me, then I'm getting off that bus. You have to be careful with statements like that, because in all likelyhood, you will reach a time when music is no longer fun for you, and you may very well find that despite that, you don't want to get off the bus. Variations on "hope I die before I get old" always come back to bite you. The question is, how are you going to handle the absence of fun in making music? A marriage isn't always fun, and if you expect it to be so, you'll be sorely disappointed. Travis Hartnett "When you're tired, you've had enough, and can't do anything, don't do anything. And while you're not doing anything, practice." --Guitar Craft aphorism From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:28:44 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 04:11:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqHoF-0006ri-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:11:11 -0800 Message-Id: <26756.199701311207@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:07:21 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"bLOQu.A.qSG.mBe8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1928 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:11:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 8cf1ec7592993f0e0e76fc8ff52283ed Greg said: >>If you people want to see all of the manufacturers run and create loopers I >>will tell you what it will take: Not the esoteric kinds of things that we >>all love to create and listen to because we know what is good, but something >>that the great unwashed masses can enjoy as well. I'm not sure that's encessarily fair. Just because a market is small, doesn't mean it has to die. Out of interest, how many JamMen were sold compared to hour high-end reverbs? The market for those must be tiny (What do you think, dear - change the car or buy a Lex 300?). What we need is a new Brian May! No, not Nuno Battencourt. Mickey, in reply to Greg: >I posit that, despite fantastic technological advances, we live in an >era of mediocrity and sameness, perhaps even shallowness. I think >there is a great hunger for depth and quality, but I think the pace >of late 20th century life makes the search for meaning very costly, >perhaps even frivolous. Very often there is not enough time to >search beyond the obvious cookie-cutter solutions, so we grab for >the salient stimuli that are easily within our grasp. Life seems to >work if only we can keep up with the maddening pace of progress, if >only we can swim with the pack. Very often this can feel like a no win >game. In the face of enormous challenges and enormous potential, the >lowest common denominators often rise to the top. I think this has always been thus. A century ago, in Britain, the chief form of entertainment for "the masses" was the music hall - simple, throwaway songs with lewd lyrics and singalong choruses. Serious music existed of course - what we now term "classical" - but it was only listened to by a small minority. Today's music hall stars are Oasis and Bush, but nothing much has changed except for the visibility and earnings of those stars. I would expect that the lot of the "serious" professional musician has changed little in that time. >I know about this phenomenon, having a 12 year old son who pounds this >stuff out on his white stratocaster, exclusively. While respecting his >individuality and accepting his taste as his own, it is hard not to wish >more for him. With luck, as he grows he will shift into more demanding music - he is only 12, and much of the music we discuss here is quite "mature". I revealed my own deepseated prejudices when I was astounded to find in GP that our Andre is "only" 21. >Although we speak here about music and the almost magical technology that >becomes our artist's palette, I cannot help but to be drawn to the bigger >picture of the times in which we create. Is it historical "business as usual" >that substance gives way to fashion? The 60's did not feel that way to me, >but no doubt I am myopic and biased by my own experience. I feel that the >US, and perhaps much of the world, has become more conservative since those >times. I don't really follow what you're saying here, not having experienced the 60s for more than a month, and then only as an embryo. Could you elaborate? >I'd like to hear the thoughts of others. Do we just detach ourselves >from the mainstream, and just do what we do? Perhaps this is best. Or >do we have a *responsibility* to do more. I don't think we _can_ do more. Public taste will always be with the less demanding musics. And as one controvercial PR officer once put, "remember that 50% of the population have below average intelligence, by definition". >Some years ago, I studied with a very talented jazz guitarist and soulful >human being, Ted Dunbar, at Rutgers University. He used to say that "music >will save the world". And he was never speaking figuratively. Yeah - but who's going to save music? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:28:46 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 04:19:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqHwD-00079Y-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:19:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:16:40 -0500 (EST) From: WBrake@aol.com Message-ID: <970131071638_1726991220@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex CC pedal Resent-Message-ID: <"igkroC.A.SoG.ULe8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1929 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:19:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 5d3bb00018577d8998ee3a4fdcb837dd I use an EV-5 as well. You may need to adjust the sweep range control for optimum results. Electronics questions can be addressed to: wbrake@aol.com. Will From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:28:48 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 04:29:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqI62-0007RA-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:29:34 -0800 Message-Id: <27197.199701311225@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:25:20 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Magic: Finding that voice Resent-Message-ID: <"FZaSyC.A.b6G.YVe8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1930 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:29:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 946b01f50336b9e5c9a73d265ce822ac Jon: >Thanks Olivier for your eloquent thoughts re: Finding the Magic. It's the >constant search that keeps most of us going. And it reminds me of the >>disturbing arguments I had in my recent past. Back in the dim dark daze of my >>Lexicon past, I remember having extended arguments with certain peoples there >>who insisted that the bulk of the "musicians" out there--i.e. potential >buying >market-- have abosultely no interest in finding a unique voice, and >creating >new and innovative musics. I think they're probably right. THE BULK. Not ALL. An ad for Fiat for their new sportscar in the UK recently went like this: In total, about a million people will see this ad. Of those, only about 300,000 will read it. Only 10,000 of those will be interested enough to see a dealer. Finally only 1,000 will drive one away. It's that 1000 we're talking to. (I'm paraphrasing here) > The certain peoples at Lexland insisted that, indeed, all > these "musicians" were seeking was "getting laid". They have no interest in > something new, they only want to copy what sold. Well, now you mention it.... :) This is fine for the teens who spend their saturdays banging out Nirvana at the guitar store on Saturdays. These people will never be able to afford Lexicon anyway - they'll get their Dod pedals, or maybe aspire to a ValveFX through their Peaveys. And as they say, the bulk of guitar owners are like this. Out of interest, were you discussing the Vortex at the time? BUT Lex' market is for people who know what they want and what they want to achieve with it. No-one spends $3000 on a reverb in order to get laid. It would be cheaper to pay to get laid. >So, thank you to all who've been sharing with us your secrets of creative >magic--I'm thoroughly gratified to encounter so many forward-thinking >>musicians. There may only be 100 of us on this list, but in the wild that's a big enough population to repopulate a species. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:52:57 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 10:41:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqNtU-0003LS-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:41:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199701311836.KAA16348@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Starting again Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 12:38:19 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"r2yggB.A.ctC.quj8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1939 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:41:00 -0800 X-UIDL: cad3940b72af1f0a59641d42e8fa7a3e >Well, I have a day job. My livelihood does not depend on making music. >There is no other driving force for me to make music other than >the passion for doing so. Sadly, there is such a thing as joyless passion. And should you find yourself in a position where you're still impelled to make music, even though you're not enjoying it, it's good to have a contingency plan. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:28:49 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 05:13:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqImX-0000qm-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 05:13:29 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:09:55 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jon's Post Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XXeW2.A.Co.-8e8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1931 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 05:13:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 25901e3c220420008aba2543cdd757b9 Huuummm... I have been thinking a lot on this post. I am prone to think that in fact it is basic modus operandi for everyone. Yes everyone. I know that walking a guitar shop a sunday afternoon can be a VERY disturbing experience. But I would rather say that all these people who seem to all play the same thing with the same sound are indeed looking for the same "magic phd". They choosed other way, or they were overwhelmed with what seemed power of such or such sound to them , but it doesn't change that when they play this sound that everyone use it is truly theirs the time they play. No one can take that from them. Certainly for a lot of complex reasons involving personnal history/state of mind and psychology, the direction taken can SEEM the same for all, but it CAN NOT BE. it is impossible. Whoever this sunday afternoon guitarist it is who walks this planet, there is no double of him/her. Besides, this search has nothing to see with the quality of the music "produced" which is a whole other topic. It is an effect I think of mass production that retailer and producers of manufatured... produces (hum!) think in term of law of the market, hence those nice discussion you were referring (at? to? I don't know). It is a disturbing effect of the way economical actors because this pityful narrow way of thinking is spreading all over the known universe. But it does not mean people act as mass consumers REALLY even if it SEEMS so. The worst of the guitarist f the planet, or the best copy ever produced of Vai or Morse or Holdsworth came to this result as a matter of personnal choices/directions/quest. It is a matter no one can discuss for yourselves. And no one can tell me what I should do as far as my direction of work is concerned (but I can seek advice, learn from people, and so on if I choose to). We could of course discuss the force at work to push a lot of people to sound the same, but I'm not sure that can but scratch the surface... You tell me, fellows... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:28:57 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 05:20:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqItG-00017E-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 05:20:26 -0800 Date: 31 Jan 97 08:12:49 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970131131248_74074.1316_GHQ48-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"CGHDf.A.V4._Bf8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1932 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 05:20:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 44310c3638b8ada305e54b4a42bc478b Dr. Michael writes: >I'm not sure that's encessarily fair. Just because a market is small, >doesn't mean it has to die. Out of interest, how many JamMen were sold >compared to hour high-end reverbs? The market for those must be tiny (What >do you think, dear - change the car or buy a Lex 300?). OK, but try to remember that the Lex 300 also generates quite a bit more profit than does a JamMan--especially when they have to be blown out to sell at all. You have to sell a whole lot more Jampersons to make up what what you make on a single 300. Not to mention how much more advertising you have to do. Let's face it, you're market for the 300 is well defined: big studios who charge big dollars for their time. OK, we know who they are, they know who we are. Easy. Jamperson possible target audience? Uh, everyone who plays any instrument. How do you reach them? How do you reach the sax players to tell them that Michael Brecker uses a JamMan? How do you reach all the guitarists/bassists/percussionists/vocalists/violinists/DJs/ blahblahblah. The point is it costs an incredible sum of money to properly market a product like the Jamman--just to get to the limited number of peoples in each of these disparate groups. It really isn't a profitable idea, unless the product costs a whole lot more. But, as we found out, the product didn't sell until the price was dropped to the zero profit point. So does this mean that the market has to vanish? I don't think so, but I think that there has to be some very realistic thinking involved. The looping device cannot be the bread-and-butter piece of a companies product line. But it can be a valuable addition, so long as the company doesn't get uptight about slow sales on one product. (of course, if there is such a company out there, I don't belive that they are in the MI biz...) I still maintain that the easy answer is a looping card for the PCM 80. All the tools are in place, and it would be a really great product, albeit an expensive one. But no one wanted to hear it, so... Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:28:59 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 05:34:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqJ76-0001aj-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 05:34:44 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Mascarini, Rick (Corp)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Help me out with the Philly Loop Show! Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:32:06 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 56 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"N9eAxC.A.oZB.6Rf8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1933 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 05:34:44 -0800 X-UIDL: a00dbe9e914d3e9cb4b715e56c683968 Jim, I'm originally from So.Jersery (Cherry Hill area) and travel from time to time back for visits/business. I would be willing to see such a "looper's" show since that's what I'm currently doing in music. Please send any details,etc. regards, Rick Mascarini GE GSO/Information Delivery Services Voice & Fax: 8*235.5187, 518.385.2394 >---------- >From: jspeer@haverford.edu[SMTP:jspeer@haverford.edu] >Sent: Thursday, January 30, 1997 3:03 PM >To: Mascarini, Rick (Corp) >Subject: Help me out with the Philly Loop Show! > >Hi Loopers, > >I've undertaken to stage a show in Philadelphia of four Looper's Delight >members. I have a coffeehouse venue lined up for a Saturday in March, and >I'd rather not specify that date yet here until it becomes totally firm. >Anyway, I'm very excited to be able to put this on, and from the demo tapes >I've received I'm looking forward to a night of especially wonderful music. > The participants at this time are: > >Charles Cohen (solo synth) >Paul Poplawski (trio: Accidents Will Happen) >Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick, with possible percussion) >Patrick Smith (trio: Fingerpaint) > >However, I could use some help. The venue owner has more or less asked me >that this show please draw as well as possible. My first question for you >guys is simply who would be interested in attending this night as a >spectator? After all, you are the natural "target audience" for this show. > I'd like to get an early gauge of interest here, if that is possible. > >Second, I could use some help with writing brief publicity materials for >calendar listings and flyers. How is looped music best described to the >unfamiliar layman, hopefully in as attractive language as possible? What >more might I be able to do or write to rake up some interest from the >populace? > >Looking forward to hearing from all! >Jim Speer >jspeer@haverford.edu > >********************** >My Town: Philadelphia! > > > From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:10 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 12:10:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqPHi-0002Do-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:10:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199701312004.MAA20694@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Starting again Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 14:06:34 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"z1-JZD.A.MvB.ZBl8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1941 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:10:06 -0800 X-UIDL: a55f8769a19d1583ab3b14db3e003868 >> Sadly, there is such a thing as joyless passion. And should you find >Give me an example. An example is a actual marriage. Four or five years into a marriage, people can look around and say, "where did all the joy go?" For many people, this is a crisis which prompts them to reconsider their commitment to the marriage. For some, the absence of joy signals the dissolution of that marriage. Others are still committed to the union, even though the immediate "fun" is absent. With time, work and attention, this joy can be rekindled, perhaps with greater intensity. I know people who have been married twenty or thirty years, and they report that there were periods of two or three years where their partner really got on their nerves, or where they didn't speak to each other much more than necessary. Life is long, and the demands of such a commitment are frequently underestimated at the beginning of the journey. >When you say "contingency plan", what do you mean here? Find another >activity that is enjoyable? Heck, I love watching American football... > With music, we can see a similiar phenomenon. Many musicians report a plateau they reach in their development. Forward progress seems to halt, everything sounds bad or indifferent. Some people change instruments. Some stop playing for a while, or entirely. Some retire from public performance or group participation. Some buy new gear, try new techniques. Some people stop listening to outside music for a year. If one wishes to continue sailing during a year of overcast skies, one needs other means of navigation. The above strategies allow for one to continue "sailing without the North Star (of Joy)". >I hope you don't mind me asking these questions. No, I don't mind at all, but it may be time to take this off the list and go to private mailings. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:29:02 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 07:05:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqKX9-0004pT-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:05:43 -0800 Message-Id: <1154.199701311501@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:01:52 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"6fGKmD.A.zVE.Tlg8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1934 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:05:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 735eb1f50cd3bf0f36d110cf7f77c5bb >>I'm not sure that's encessarily fair. Just because a market is small, >>doesn't mean it has to die. Out of interest, how many JamMen were sold >>compared to hour high-end reverbs? The market for those must be tiny (What >>do you think, dear - change the car or buy a Lex 300?). > >OK, but try to remember that the Lex 300 also generates quite a bit more profit >than does a JamMan--especially when they have to be blown out to sell at all. >You have to sell a whole lot more Jampersons to make up what what you make on a >single 300. True. > Not to mention how much more advertising you have to do. Let's face >it, you're market for the 300 is well defined: big studios who charge big >dollars for their time. OK, we know who they are, they know who we are. Easy. Sure. However, I think (I really honestly hope I'm not stepping of your toes, or Greg's, on this one) that Lex gave the impression of really not knowing how to approach the low end of the market. The "32 secundos" ad with zany graphics seemed so full of hype that it looked as if there was something to hide. Though I know their name distains thee, Digitech have been selling low-end proto-loopers for not much more than the JM clearout price and making enough profit to keep them in the line for years. And Digitech know how to sell a $500 box as though it's top-of-the-line, as do Alesis (who have a reputation for quality sound, at least amongst us great unwashed types). FE, perhaps if the Vortex and Reflex had been bundled together it would have competed (at the same price point) with the Midiverb (which costs the same as either). The Lex unit would have been better, but on paper the specs would be about the same. OK, the Lex would probably have much higher SNR and bandwidth, but if it's going into a pair of Celestion Vintage 30s who cares? (rant mode off) >Jamperson possible target audience? Uh, everyone who plays any instrument. How >do you reach them? How do you reach the sax players to tell them that Michael >Brecker uses a JamMan? How do you reach all the >guitarists/bassists/percussionists/vocalists/violinists/DJs/ blahblahblah. There was NO advertising in the UK for ths "baby" Lexes. It got a tiny mention as a competition giveaway in The Guitar Magazine (not that I'm complaining - I won it :) ) and that was it - certainly no ads. I only ever heard about them - esp. the Vortex - from GP imports (which don't sell well over here, on account of not raving enough about Oasis/Paul Weller/Blur etc). The entry for the Vortex was wrong in the GP buyers guide (for 2 YEARS running), which can't have helped. > The >point is it costs an incredible sum of money to properly market a product like >the Jamman--just to get to the limited number of peoples in each of these >disparate groups. It really isn't a profitable idea, unless the product costs a >whole lot more. But, as we found out, the product didn't sell until the price >was dropped to the zero profit point. If the PDS8000 could do it.... (sorry) I think that a looper will come. I think it will be part of a processor, will retail for $700 and be made by Zoom. After all, there's a genuine 4-sec looper in the 8080.... >I still maintain that the easy answer is a looping card for the PCM 80. All the >tools are in place, and it would be a really great product, albeit an expensive >one. But no one wanted to hear it, so... I never thought I'd _ever_ actually say this, but it would be cheaper to buy a TC2290..... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:29:10 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 09:39:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqMwL-0006U0-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:39:53 -0800 Message-Id: <9701311652.AA23387@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:41:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"-iQdFC.A.WYF.Dxi8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1937 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:39:53 -0800 X-UIDL: e2c884fab57b391bfe19d08b04295e68 In response to my saying: ">>If you people want to see all of the manufacturers run and create loopers I >>will tell you what it will take: Not the esoteric kinds of things that we >>all love to create and listen to because we know what is good, but >>something that the great unwashed masses can enjoy as well. " Michael said: "I'm not sure that's necessarily fair. Just because a market is small, doesn't mean it has to die. Out of interest, how many JamMen were sold compared to hour high-end reverbs? The market for those must be tiny (What do you think, dear - change the car or buy a Lex 300?)." We have sold around 8000 JAMMEN as opposed to maybe 5000 each of the M300 and M480L. Low end products require a lower margin(earned dollars) then higher end products thus a higher volume is required for a product to be deemed successful. This may not be fair but it is reality. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:29:06 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 09:02:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqMMT-0003a4-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:02:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 11:54:41 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701311654.AA04624@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"Bq6esC.A.y3C.QPi8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1935 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:02:49 -0800 X-UIDL: fc7f6230057d6bc5d1d9da0ae6dc2462 I wrote: Although we speak here about music and the almost magical technology that becomes our artist's palette, I cannot help but to be drawn to the bigger picture of the times in which we create. Is it historical "business as usual" that substance gives way to fashion? The 60's did not feel that way to me, but no doubt I am myopic and biased by my own experience. I feel that the US, and perhaps much of the world, has become more conservative since those times. Michael responded: >I don't really follow what you're saying here, not having experienced the >60s for more than a month, and then only as an embryo. Could you >elaborate? >From *my* vantage point, the 60's were a time when popular music was infused with real depth. This notion has become a cliche to some extent, so I'm conscious of not gushing too hard over the music that I was exposed to then, during my own adolescence: during my own period of heightened discovery. But I can argue, from a musical perspective, that the times were richer. Hendrix and Clapton made statements that are still very much alive today: exemplars almost, of what kinds of expression can be gotten out of the electric guitar. Go into most music stores today, and you will meet 12 year olds who love the music and style of Hendrix. During the 60's, it *seemed* that even the average Joe's and Jane's were moved by music that had more to say. My own roots (and hence my biases) lie in the music that has that blues movement to it. It's a very hard thing to define in words without sounding pedantic and self-referential. Either you get it or you don't. Take an album like Electric Ladyland. 1960's technology. But the guitar playing and the engineering is sublime, eerie almost in how much is conveyed. My guess is that this will be listened to in 2100 and beyond. The music is just so present, human, and alive, on so many levels. I think the business of music was very different, too. I just spoke recently with a drummer that I've known since 1972, when we worked together. Over the years, he's had major gigs with several well known rock acts (Meatloaf, Edgar Winter, John Cale, Flo and Eddie of the Turtles). He sites the corporatization of rock as a major factor in the change of things. When rock became big business, the scum quickly floated to the top. Now there are less opportunities for high quality players to find work. There was less structure and more freedom to experiment in the 60's. There was a greater liberalism and idealism, infused with the sense that big changes in society could be made (along with angst surrounding Vietnam War and burgeoning drug use among middle class kids, not to mention the real sense that society might be put to rest via nuclear holocaust). There was this greater sense of risk-taking and a relative breakdown or blurring of class boundaries. Much of the music expressed renewed innocence and hope, even in the face of armageddon. Blues sensibility was the perfect medium for this message, expressing a sort of strength and beauty despite obvious pain and suffering. The absorption of rock instrumentation and affect into big business largely defangs its movement toward change and rebellion. There has always been bad music of every form. But what was once a medium recognized for it's expressive power has become largely the backdrop for superbowl beer commercials. Recently, I saw guitarist Scott Henderson at a small club in New Jersey. The music was incendiary. Scott played the hell out of everything from Coltrane's "Giant Steps" to Hendrix's "Fire". What an awesome command of blues, modern jazz, funk, bebop. The place was half empty. When I was 15, I saw Hendrix play to a sold out Madison Square Garden, making a lot of the same noises. But now it's a whole other game. Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 10:29:21 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 10:03:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqNJ4-0000Sq-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:03:22 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701311800.KAA19040@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Starting again To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:00:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199701311706.JAA24354@scv1.apple.com> from "T.W. Hartnett" at Jan 31, 97 11:08:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8g3omB.A.KL.ANj8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1938 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:03:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 4279ce2efdecfae25b69280bbc5861ed > >All I have to add is that despite what Fripp says, I'm into music > >because it's FUN, dammit, and when the time comes that music is no longer > >fun for me, then I'm getting off that bus. > > You have to be careful with statements like that, because in all > likelyhood, you will reach a time when music is no longer fun for you, > and you may very well find that despite that, you don't want to get off > the bus. Variations on "hope I die before I get old" always come back to Sorry, but I sense a contradiction in the above paragraph. Since I am not required to make music for a living, I am at a loss to think of a reason for making music when it is not an enjoyable experience. > bite you. The question is, how are you going to handle the absence of > fun in making music? A marriage isn't always fun, and if you expect it Well, I have a day job. My livelihood does not depend on making music. There is no other driving force for me to make music other than the passion for doing so. Maybe this is not true for everyone, but then again, note that what I have said applies specifically to me; I never presumed my statements would be true for everybody. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:33 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 16:45:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqTa4-0005tZ-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:45:20 -0800 X-Sender: vajra1@pop3.mho.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:14:24 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) Subject: Re: populate a species. Resent-Message-ID: <"MbYDeD.A.SSF.6Fp8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1948 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:45:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 6f32e6e0c2f67f0a56009fb92e9022fa > >Too bad there don't seem to be any women on the list. We could have a >personals section of the web page... > > >SWML (single white male loopist) seeks >SFL with whom to have a MIDI interface. >Must have at least 16 megs of RAM and >a Vortex. Let get our pedals out and >express ourselves! > > >Maybe it wouldn't be such a good idea... > > >Trev Goodness. I sense an impending onslaught of bad midi in-n-out jokes on the horizon. Take cover fellows, it's a hard rain a gonna fall. From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:02 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 11:02:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqOE8-0004vh-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:02:20 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199701311851.KAA19727@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Starting again To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:51:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199701311836.KAA16348@scv1.apple.com> from "T.W. Hartnett" at Jan 31, 97 12:38:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M0BEJ.A.V9D.78j8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1940 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:02:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 9b3be27bc98bbeff62b00de3c57b9f0a > >Well, I have a day job. My livelihood does not depend on making music. > >There is no other driving force for me to make music other than > >the passion for doing so. > > Sadly, there is such a thing as joyless passion. And should you find Give me an example. I think it is becoming apparent that you and I don't quite relate to music in the same way; at least when it comes to having an emotional relationship in music. This is probably why I am having trouble understanding your point of view here. > yourself in a position where you're still impelled to make music, even > though you're not enjoying it, it's good to have a contingency plan. > > Travis Hartnett Hmmm... I think I might be beginning to understand what you mean. "Labor of love", right? Sure when I practice playing an instrument sometimes I get frustrated, but overall being occasionally frustrated doesn't mean I'm not having fun. When you say "contingency plan", what do you mean here? Find another activity that is enjoyable? Heck, I love watching American football... I hope you don't mind me asking these questions. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:12 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 12:19:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqPQm-0002ri-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:19:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:59:09 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Magic: Finding that voice In-Reply-To: <27197.199701311225@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"I32O2D.A.kOC.fIl8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1942 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:19:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 46ee92785db909febde861b003c266fb On Fri, 31 Jan 1997, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > No-one spends $3000 on a reverb in order to get laid. It > would be cheaper to pay to get laid. Yeah, but it would't sound as good! --A From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 12:35:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqPgZ-0003y5-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:35:47 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 15:28:57 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701312028.AA08576@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Magic: Finding that voice Resent-Message-ID: <"KG3C8.A.UTD.SYl8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1943 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:35:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 754028bbf22a415205a47961f363e38e >> No-one spends $3000 on a reverb in order to get laid. It >> would be cheaper to pay to get laid. >Yeah, but it would't sound as good! And if the reverb tail is happening, it wouldn't last as long! From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:27 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 14:07:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqR7l-0002UF-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:07:57 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 17:02:57 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9701312202.AA10251@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Starting again Resent-Message-ID: <"mlH1Q.A.W-B.Jwm8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1945 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:07:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 6fe59a250d3cb401a2fa8d92603e2893 >T.W. Hartnett wrote: >> >> >Well, I have a day job. My livelihood does not depend on making music. >> >There is no other driving force for me to make music other than >> >the passion for doing so. > > >Actually, I think having a day job afforts the ultimate in artistic >freedom, if you care about these thing. I don't need other people to >like my work- all I have to do is like it. No record contract worries, >don't have the get multiple piercings, whatever. > >Plus it helps that my day job is pretty cool too. > > >Trev > > The problem with all of this is *time*. And I wonder how long a job can stay "cool" if you're primarily interest is *making* music. I do work (software development) in a university research environment that many would find interesting and with lots of freedom. But over time, I find myself wanting to be doing music when I wake up in the morning. It's not easy to strike that balance, I find. Mickey From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 02:02:46 1997 >From kflint Thu Jan 30 15:30:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vq5wI-0006Dg-00; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:30:42 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F28243.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:37:39 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Help me out with the Philly Loop Show! References: <199701302000.PAA01396@acc.haverford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rWbDXD.A.chF.R5S8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1922 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:30:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 3d2ae1c862750a9981fa02e70a7281d0 Philly is my old stomping ground, and I go back whenever possible. If the show is on a weekend, it is possible I could make it. Trev From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:43 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 17:53:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqUeB-0002oA-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:53:39 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:50:43 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"Zty5lD.A.lcC.8Fq8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1949 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:53:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 85f83eb04d437ebe211f9b3d0d65453b ghogan@lexicon.com wrote: >We have sold around 8000 JAMMEN as opposed to maybe 5000 each of the M300 >and M480L. Low end products require a lower margin(earned dollars) then >higher end products thus a higher volume is required for a product to be >deemed successful. neato says: there is however a big difference...reverb processing machines are a known entity...the jamman was basically a new concept all together...it takes time to promote an entirely new idea...the problem is the original jamman is/was already obsolete...perhaps lexicon is just not the company to break them (as their strength was never really catering to a low end market)...a bigger better (ie more expensive) jamman perhaps...but a low(er) cost looper might have to fall into the hands of alesis,peavey or digitech..or maybe even as a piece of computer software cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:46 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 20:34:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqXA9-0004CW-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:34:49 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:35:19 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: Re: JamMan upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"OdLON.A.6yD.pds8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1950 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:34:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 133ba439b82fe1cb346358f7b09a89d3 Earlier this week Greg Hogan said this about Stew's post: >Stew Benedict asked:"Does anyone have the exact spec (generic part number - >whatever) for the Jamman "zip" memory?" > >The answer is 1Mega Byte x 4 bits at100 nanoseconds or faster 20 pin zip >style DRAM, quantity 4. > >Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I >can do for you. > >Best regards, > >Greg Hogan >Lexicon Customer Service >Phone 617-280-0372 >FAX 617-280-0499 >email: ghogan@lexicon.com I found these manufacturer names and numbers for the chips in the Jam Manual on page 22. I don't think they have been posted before so here goes. Hope it helps. Motorola MCM54400AZ Hitachi HM514400AZP NEC D424400V Fujitsu MB814400 Mitsubishi M5M44400L Micron MT4C4001JZ I got mine from Chips for Less at 1-800-820-6009. I think they charge about $110 nowadays. Just say you want the RAM for the Jam Man and they'll know exactly what you are looking for. According to others on the list you can probably get it cheaper if you look around, but if you are having trouble finding it, they do have it. Also since there have been some new folks subscribing to the list and others talking about buying up the cheap Jam Man units that are still out there, I thought it might be good to repeat some info regarding proposed software and hardware upgrades to the Jam Man that I heard about. Back on January 3,1997 I spoke to Bob Sellon at Lexicon. Here's what I posted to the list: >I just called and spoke with Bob for several minutes about some of this >stuff and he said a couple of things: > > He is currently working on some JamMan mods. Lexicon is interested in >licensing the software to Bob and another fellow to make some upgrades >which include hearing multiple loops simultaneously, more odd time >signature MIDI clock support,and some other tweaks which I can't recall >now. The other proposed mod would be hardware including more memory for >longer delay times and yes --STEREO INS AND OUTS. > > I told him about our list and he said for anyone interested in these >JamMan tweaks to email him at so he can see how much >interest and support is there for these mods and also to keep us posted on >their progress I have not heard from Bob since so I don't know anything new, but if you haven't emailed him yet please do so. I also gave Bob our email address and told him to post directly to the list if there is any news. Later Ed