From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 10:55:52 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 06:53:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wj3N0-0001SJ-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:53:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:48:58 -0400 (EDT) From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <970701094857_241320557@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Don Preston Resent-Message-ID: <"xwFFb.A.OLB.NsQuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/564 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:53:26 -0700 X-UIDL: c291ca882f2afc7a443581958b789ab9 In a message dated 97-06-30 02:22:16 EDT, you write: >Attention folks! My friends, Oil Junkys, use an array of equipment, >including an ancient Echoplex, to produce their music, which could be >classified as electronic in some circles. > >Tuesday, July 1, 8pm, they're playing with Don Preston (one of the original >Mothers, also played with Coltrane) at Lumpy Gravy here in LA. Don played with Coltrane? I know back when he was growing up in Detroit he played bass with Elvin Jones for awhile. Some of his more significant gigs since leaving Zappa are Carla Bley, Gil Evans, John Carter/Bobby Bradford, Jack Bruce and Mike Mantler. I am playing duo with Don at Lumpy Gravy on Tuesday July 15. We will be doing some of the more out-jazz Mothers tunes (such as The Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbeque), some Carla Bley, Bobby Bradford, as well as many Don originals. Don't know how much looping will be involved, but I'm toting along the Vortex amongst other goodies and we usually do some free playing that's more textural than jazz per se. >The club is located at 7311 Beverly Boulevard in Los Angeles. It is right >next door to the Art Store and across the street from El Coyote. There is >valet parking in back (or at least there was last time I went). Call (213) >934-9400 for more information. The bistro has dinner service and now has a >liquor license. (Pretty fine too!) There is still valet parking available. Ken R From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 10:55:54 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 08:58:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wj5Jc-0000hg-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:58:04 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 1997 10:53:03 -0700 From: "Hartnett, Travis" Subject: FS: Vortex $225 To: "Loopers Delight postings" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"HHn20B.A.PN.eeSuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/565 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:58:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 1c42ba7725e3972b53b50271f6c50daa from Harmony Central: Lexicon, Yamaha, Morley Asking Price: US$N/A Condition: Mint Age: N/A Description: Lexicon Vortex like new in box $225.00. Yamaha guitar multi-effects processor, mint in box $175.00. Morley wah/volume $55.00 Seller: Bill Beck, E-mail: hotgitr@adnc.com Location: ESCONDIDO, CA Post Date: 6/27/97 From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 12:27:47 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 11:26:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wj5cm-0002Hw-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:17:52 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 1 Jul 1997 10:58:45 -0700 From: "Hartnett, Travis" Subject: FS: Boomerang $399 To: "Loopers Delight postings" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"-7WPK.A._z.NmSuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/566 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:17:52 -0700 X-UIDL: b786a6c3986f2b09bbc14da1f9413f6f from Harmony Central: FS: Boomerang Looping unit Asking Price: US$399 Condition: Mint Age: N/A Description: Brand new in the box (never used) , 1 meg memory (1 minute of loop time). The most user friendly loop unit ever. $399 Seller: Eric Welsh, E-mail: eswelsh@aol.com Post Date: 6/25/97 From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 17:49:06 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 16:30:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjCNj-0006BW-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:30:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199707012325.QAA28074@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Date: Tue, 1 Jul 97 18:28:34 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"TXoEDD.A.WhF.VJZuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/571 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:30:47 -0700 X-UIDL: eb1691fc844d99a16b4053025a27de61 >In any case, I am still faced with a problem when I try to get gigs. I >usually play at bookstores/art shows/galleries..and while booking the >gig, I'm faced with "What kind of music do you play" by the booking >agent for the venue. >Now, this "What music do you play" is different than a friend/ fan/ >newspaper asking the same thing. If you say 'new age', theres no chance >you'll get hired (I've tried it). >If you say 'jazz' they expect a night of standards. No one knows what >'ambient' is. And I certainly can't tell them what I think it is..that >would take at least 10 minutes! > >Funny, after I play there, the next time I return (with my guitar synths >and e-bows), >I'm listed in the Newspaper under 'folk'. > >Again, what do these people hear? I give them a tape. And, I could care less what they call me on a return engagement. If people are showing up and appreciating what I'm doing, they can call it whatever they want. Travis P.S. I always describe it (it even goes on the fliers) as Ambient Improvised Instrumentals, but the booking agents I run into at least pretend they know what Ambient means. From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 17:48:48 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 13:09:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wj9Ea-0007Fp-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:09:08 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Blowing our own trumpets (was: Music is best, indeed) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:51:10 -0300 Resent-Message-ID: <"fY4sIC.A.KbG.ILWuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/567 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:09:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 9893e7d6dccefceca00d4b50482daff6 First I want to thank for the nice words of Michael and Jon! Then someone made the good question: >So where do we get these albums? Dave at Studio 17 actually had offered to do the distribution and me blockhead was too lazy (busy?) to send him some material. I am selling/trading just tapes, nicely produced, two years ago. There are a lot more recordings, about half of it with many different partners. Part of it is ready edited on about 10 CDRs here. How should I distribute it? A selection of it I sent on a CDR to Ray, to do our Loopers CD. What happened? Maybe there could be a label with LOOP CDs out there? The page might be a strong start for distribution! Jon? Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 17:48:54 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 13:55:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wj9x5-0002kc-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:55:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199707012052.NAA12362@gw1.bi-tech.com> From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Blowing our own trumpets (was: Music is best, indeed) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:55:20 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ujbvN.A.GIC.E2Wuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/568 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:55:07 -0700 X-UIDL: c05451c95d507ad783578bc8a8bc293d > From: Matthias Grob > A selection of it I sent on a CDR to Ray, to do our Loopers CD. What happened? > > Maybe there could be a label with LOOP CDs out there? The page might be a > strong start for distribution! Shameless plug.....Marathon Records (my "record company on-the-side") is set up to take credit card orders. I'd be happy to carry/sell any LD members' product.....assuming the quality is up to snuff. Check out our web page at: http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon for more info or email me here. Matt mattm@bi-tech.com or marathon@joshuanet.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 17:49:01 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 15:56:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjBqW-0003Wh-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:56:28 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:50:17 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"rXJ8h.A.r2C.CnYuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/569 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:56:28 -0700 X-UIDL: a33075c87e4246587cb4515aaf4370d5 Arif said: >Unfortunately, retailers put music into the New Age bin when they don't >know where else to put it! If all of us tell them how to call "our" bin, they will create it and fill it! James brought in: >i have always thought that Robert Fripp's "Soundscapes" was a very >appropriate name for music of this type... Appropriate, but not international enough, I think, too dificult word. >my 1st looping project was a collection of pieces,,i entitled " Music to >make you leave the room by",,,that way no one could complain if they stayed.... > >the term "New Age" makes me physically i'll... but i've never hit anyone for >using this term to describe some of the music i do,,,havent even purged my >dinner on their shoes... Hahahaaaa, you are great, James! Here in Northeast Brasil, I have a hard time, because the only music people know that (to them) seams similar to mine is Kitaro and Vangelis and :-( Jarre. No Ambient, no New Age, just "instrumental", together with Gismonti, Hermeto, Vila-Lobos and mandolin music. Recently it got better, since Enya got known,,, but I did not purge any dinners either. Recently, on a public bus trip where they played a tape with those tenor voices in thirds singing about suffering from love and heartattachments, I came up with a tape of mine and they put it in. But at the the first somewhat fatter, harmonically still simple loop, the discussion started and a guy said that he is tortured by such music. I asked where it hurts and he pointed at his forehead. Why? Why did he not suffer with the suffering singers? Then there was no music in the bus any more. What a pity. Matt : >"Ambient Guitar Noise" is my phrase of choice.... Isnt Noise something rather negative? Stephen: >...I end up using words and >phrases like "atmospheric", "soundtrack music", "space music" Me too. "space" I rather avoid, because people are very mystical and want a confirmation that I really am from another planet. How do I know? I also use "clima", I do not know whether it makes sense in english? >"...It must be as ignorable as it is listenable..." > >"...It seeks to enhance its environment, as opposed to Musak, which >blankets it..." Brilliant! I did not know these statements :-( >Ambient Music is at times best defined by what it is NOT. It is not like >an ignored child, prodding you to pay attention to their newest 'trick', >jumping up and down and yelling "listen to THIS!". It is therefore not >something that distracts you from your current tasks-at-hand, whether >pleasurable or otherwise. Also brilliant Is this inherent to looping, or is it just a acidental connection ??? From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 17:49:04 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 16:24:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjCHF-0005ZI-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:24:05 -0700 Message-ID: <33B991B1.C26F33BE@gte.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 19:24:33 -0400 From: future perfect X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"snZBkC.A.o6E.GDZuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/570 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:24:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 57e6e00d7346dfce6d85e7d97aad2c79 Loopers, First, I must thank you all for everyones imput on my 'Music Descriptions' thread. There's a lot of adjectives out there! There's been a lot of talk about what we, the artists, call our own music. And we know that most retailers would put our recordings in the 'new age' bin. ..And I love to hear what non-musicians/non-ambient musicians think of it. I read a review of the current G3 tour, with Fripp opening with Soundscapes. This was on alt.guitar-its said something like 'This guy Fripp was up there making all these noises, and had us screaming for 'Yanni'. What do these people hear? In any case, I am still faced with a problem when I try to get gigs. I usually play at bookstores/art shows/galleries..and while booking the gig, I'm faced with "What kind of music do you play" by the booking agent for the venue. Now, this "What music do you play" is different than a friend/ fan/ newspaper asking the same thing. If you say 'new age', theres no chance you'll get hired (I've tried it). If you say 'jazz' they expect a night of standards. No one knows what 'ambient' is. And I certainly can't tell them what I think it is..that would take at least 10 minutes! Funny, after I play there, the next time I return (with my guitar synths and e-bows), I'm listed in the Newspaper under 'folk'. Again, what do these people hear? Dave ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 17:49:09 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 17:37:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjDQQ-0002ns-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:37:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:29:47 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers Delight postings Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GPnm_.A.9OC.7Fauz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/572 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:37:38 -0700 X-UIDL: de7bfa29d0cd865a2892ba8b3ed9d1da what do these things list for? are they currently available? ** Dan Howarth ** ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** From ???@??? Tue Jul 01 19:01:25 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 18:16:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjE2B-0005A6-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 18:16:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SoundFNR@aol.com Message-ID: <970701210904_-727515622@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re:Re: vortex patches(volunteer) Resent-Message-ID: <"ACkU-C.A.olE.8rauz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/573 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 18:16:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 8aeeff4572d3e163b0cf8f9b91e5a3c1 In a message dated 16/06/97 1:35:27, you write: << > If one of you vortex nuts wants to make a page full of patches with > desciptions (or even audio files) for the Looper's Delight web site, by all > means do so! I think a lot of people would be interested in that. Very interested!!! ___________ Michael Peters >> As it happens I'm working on one at the moment. To include pages where patches & morphs can be submitted, and added to a list automatically. Also a list of things that aren't clear in the manual & One inaccuracy in the manual. A graphic so that we can print out a sheet with all the configuration diagrams on it ( anyone got one). I'll get it going as soon as other commitments permit. Any suggestions or input that anyone has would be much appreciated. Andy (UK). From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 00:04:13 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 20:41:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjGIN-00067d-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:41:31 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970626193107_846272035@emout07.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:31:54 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"GMN9y.A.PcF.Ezcuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/574 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:41:31 -0700 X-UIDL: e5a87c0e19f875b6a76c7cffdf7ab67a At 7:31 PM -0400 6/26/97, Squidlyguy@aol.com wrote: > My question is simple, an probably an old one. Where's the best place to >get an Echoplex from? I had the number of a place on the web that was >selling them for around $500 -$550, but can't locate it anymore. Call Oberheim and ask what dealer has them near you. OB's number is 510-635-9633. Bananas at Large often has them... (415)457-7600, www.bananas.com. >Also, have >they worked out some of the bugs that older plex owners often complained >about? There is some rumor that an upgrade will arrive very soon..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 00:04:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 20:56:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjGWV-00076Y-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:56:07 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706281443.HAA24971@marge.cyber-dyne.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:47:04 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: looping devices / Akai Remix16 Resent-Message-ID: <"yEwSa.A.4TG.GBduz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/575 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:56:07 -0700 X-UIDL: c903966d7ba420fcd3266a3bb60b0e91 At 7:41 AM -0700 6/28/97, Marc Roche wrote: >Live with mindfullness of all living things ok, I'll try. > BTY what do you think about the Akai >Remix? Is it a good product? Better than the Oberheim? I'm using the >Jamman now and I want to upgrade. Thanks, Ciao, Salaam. I'd like to hear more about the Akai Remix16 from someone who's actually got one. The demo at NAMM was pretty interesting. I know one person on the list actually owns one. Gabriel? Care to give us a review? It seems to me that the akai remix16 is significantly different from the Oberheim echoplex. They both loop, but trying to decide which is better would be very dependant on what you are trying to do. The echoplex is probably more like the jamman than the remix16, so it might seem a little more familiar to you in that regard. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about the akai can tell us more. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 00:04:23 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 1 22:24:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjHu8-000474-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:24:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:20:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707020520.AAA13703@mail2.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Resent-Message-ID: <"pCaGz.A.ZmD.cUeuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/576 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:24:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 7d3fa9b79fe48a149d2ecba17de88e36 At 05:29 PM 7/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >what do these things list for? are they currently available? cant offer much help, but a few days ago a fellow local looper brought over his and we went into a 30 minute trance (till the phone rang) i use a Jamman and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think) he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was impressed with the unit..couldnt tell a BIG difference between all three units,,,i suppose of the three the Echoplex is still my choice...however i have no intentions of selling my Jamman. in my opinion the Boomerang exhibited fine workmanship and is a quality piece of equipment...the switching was nice,once i took off my shoes. my triggering ability is greatly enhanced in sock feet with all three units... overall i liked it i would guess that $399.00 is almost as much as a new 1 meg machine would cost,,but i am not sure. james rhodes From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 10:53:49 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 00:13:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjJbg-0001Om-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:13:40 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706302210.PAA06194@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:45:31 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"kwl7GD.A.vDB.Q6fuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/577 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:13:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 135a359c80a0ebe00aebd4c32dc7bbd5 Status: U At 3:09 PM -0700 6/30/97, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >Kim Corbet commented about the use of the word 'jazz' as a label for >ambient material, and I thought I'd add in some marketing/radio history >that coincides. In the Los Angeles area, the radio station playing soft >rock/etc., KTWV ("The Wave") started out in '86-7 billing itself as a kind >of ambient station, playing pieces from Steve Reich, Brian Eno, Philip >Glass, and even on occasion King Crimson pieces in the vein of "Matte >Kudasai"; concurrently I began seeing the Music Plus's and Wherehouse's in >the area sporting a "New Age" section in the places formerly occupied by >labels like "Electronic" and "Experimental". > >For the past year or so, The Wave - perhaps it's called the same thing in >'your' town - has been sporting the term 'soft jazz', which caused me to >think again of this term. Perhaps the term 'jazz' is ethereal and >undefined enough to get away with as an umbrella, but isn't it just a >label, after all? I wonder what true jazz enthusiasts and musicians would >think. Anyone? I think it is called "Quiet Storm" here, but we all know that format, I'm sure. "Music to entertain middle-aged, upper-middle class housewives by" might be the term the record company/radio execs use. (no offense to musically literate middle aged upper middle class housewives intended :-) ) That's the format where Kenny G gets to be a respectable jazz artist. I'm not one to care much about labeling, but I have been listening to and attempting to play jazz for a reasonable length of time. Using that term as an umbrella label to cover anything you like doesn't really work for me. It seems like attaching adjectives to the word "jazz" is the latest rage in the music-genre-labeling field. To me, this always seems like some sort of misguided attempt to attach artistic credibility and sophistication to the music being labeled, and rarely has much to do with any connections the music actually has to the stuff normally called "jazz." Now, I'm hardly qualified to decide what is and is not jazz. But if you are trying to describe your music to me and you use the word "jazz," I will be thinking about musicians like Louis Armstrong, Coleman Hawkins, Duke, Bird, Miles, Coltrane, Monk, Ornette, Pharoah Saunders, Sun Ra, etc., etc.... If you really want me to be thinking along the lines of Glass and Eno, then you are better off using a term like "ambient." And if you are trying to impress me with the fact that you are so cool/artistic/sophisticated that you can combine a few terms not usually placed next to each other as a description of your Incredibly Unique music, which only people as cool/artistic/sophisticated as yourself can possibly understand, at least be creative enough to use something other than "jazz." Everyone else is already using that one. :-) Why not just think up some new descriptive term if you don't like what's available? For example, it wasn't so long ago that there was no music called Industrial. But as soon as someone did label their music Industrial, it was pretty clear what they meant. Something else that slightly disturbs me about this thread is a sort of implicit assumption that all music employing looping somehow fits in this experimental/ambient vein. I think I've said this before, but looping is much more than that. I think of looping more as a musical technique that can easily span many, many genres. Most of those genres already have bins at the record store and radio stations devoted to them, so when one of that genre's artists employs looping, no one really has to think about where it fits. We don't go in the record store expecting to find a section called "drumming," containing all the music with percussion used in it. Why do we hope for a section just for loop based music? I expect to find it anywhere. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 10:53:55 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 00:18:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjJgZ-0001lE-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:18:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199707020715.AAA29567@usr04.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:15:02 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qxvjh.A.zYB.9_fuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/578 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:18:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 9e6c9834bf6132ba2cba98a6dfd37fed Status: U future perfect said: > In any case, I am still faced with a problem when I try to get gigs. I > usually play at bookstores/art shows/galleries..and while booking the > gig, I'm faced with "What kind of music do you play" by the booking > agent for the venue. Actually, if you look them in the eye, and say "Ambient", then when they ask, say something short and simple as with "You know about 'Techno' or electronic?" [pause] "It's like that, but softer. You can eat to it." Restaurateurs, I suspect, would mostly hear the last sentence, n'est-ce pas? And it's true, too. I wonder if there's an ambient version of Louie Louie in our future? [shudder] What if the club owner who demands it turns out to be the kind of shmoe who thinks Jean Michel Jarre are three French guys? [g] But I digress... Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:26 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 14:30:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjSWT-0002bm-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:44:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199707021635.JAA30984@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Date: Wed, 2 Jul 97 11:37:19 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"xVsVED.A.iZC.cVouz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/582 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:44:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 57fe71a67b14b89955521f80817292ba >> In any case, I am still faced with a problem when I try to get gigs. I >> usually play at bookstores/art shows/galleries..and while booking the >> gig, I'm faced with "What kind of music do you play" by the booking >> agent for the venue. > >Actually, if you look them in the eye, and say "Ambient", then when they >ask, say something short and simple as with "You know about 'Techno' or >electronic?" [pause] "It's like that, but softer. You can eat to it." > >Restaurateurs, I suspect, would mostly hear the last sentence, n'est-ce >pas? And it's true, too. > >I wonder if there's an ambient version of Louie Louie in our future? >[shudder] What if the club owner who demands it turns out to be the kind >of shmoe who thinks Jean Michel Jarre are three French guys? [g] But I >digress... I've had mostly good results trying to be background ambience while people eat, but there are some people who react quite violently to what they regard as "droney noise", and this is in reaction to some really unobstrusive sound carpets. Some people are driven nuts by "waiting for the real music to start", and can't listen to ambient stuff without drums, fixed chord changes, etc. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 10:54:00 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 06:01:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjP1o-00056U-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 06:01:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:57:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707021257.OAA02804@mailbox.swip.net> X-Sender: m-34212@mailbox.swipnet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mattias Ribbing Subject: Misc Resent-Message-ID: <"Jb4ttD.A.DhE.DBluz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/579 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 06:01:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 61dd9b6a886a62c146c3a5184ac252de Status: U Hello. I am new to this list so this is my first post. I am a (midi)guitarist who is a big fan of Fripp/King Crimson. I am not a looping artist (yet), but I plan to buy some loopingequipment when I have the money. I find the Loopers Delight page very good but I think there is one thing missing to it: "An Introduction To Looping". That would be a page where the basics of looping are described and where common questions from from people who don«t know so much about looping are answered. As a potential buyer of such an expensive device there are lots of things you want to know. If anyone would make such a page I am willing to help out since I am new to this and have lots of questions (that I guess have been answered over and over again on this list). Later, Mattias Ribbing From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 10:54:16 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 09:06:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjRve-0007ZN-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:06:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:56:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Fmplautus@aol.com Message-ID: <970702115602_-393750100@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Resent-Message-ID: <"B7YzfB.A.kbG.Fqnuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/580 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:06:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 93413349da76eaedb84b38f343b6f371 Status: U Guitar Center in San Francisco is selling Boomerangs for $399 with 1 meg. Ask for Khan (he knows them well). The LoOpDoctOrs too, finally had an opportunity to play with a Boomerang. We were mightily impressed. Of the big three, the best foot interface...period. Our toes were laughing. Best, The LoOpDoctOrs From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 10:54:21 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 09:27:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjSFX-0001Or-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:27:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199707021614.JAA25996@gw1.bi-tech.com> From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:16:47 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"80fEpC.A.FM.c3nuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/581 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:27:23 -0700 X-UIDL: a1de9505ae887e50ec140395a4588925 Status: U > From: Matthias Grob > Matt : > >"Ambient Guitar Noise" is my phrase of choice.... > > Isnt Noise something rather negative? Interestingly, I've never thought of noise (in this context) as being entirely negative. Then again, ever since I discovered my dad's old reel-to-reel and began experimenting with loops (many, many years ago) I've been captivated by noise (aka sound). I think the term "Ambient Guitar Noise" is extremely descriptive of what I do. Not only does it point out the instrument of origin, but it illustrates the dichotomy of textures that one could experience while listening to my performance/tape......"ambient" being on the quiet/peaceful end of the spectrum and "noise" being on the more aggressive/chaotic end of the spectrum. And it never fails to cause people to stop and think...if only for a second. Matt From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:29 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 16:09:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjTJ5-0005TN-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:35:07 -0700 Message-ID: <33BA8CD8.1A4@dmans.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:16:08 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rj68NB.A.HQE._3ouz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/583 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:35:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 83e5b4c088ef0ab2f2453f4f15ae160e Dan Howarth wrote: > > what do these things list for? are they currently available? > > ** Dan Howarth ** > ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** > ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** Dan, The 1M Boomerang Phrase Sampler lists for $459, but the 'street' price seems to be $359-$399. Talk to Rainbow Guitars in Tucson; I believe they have 'Rangs in stock now. Motley a.k.a Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:31 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 17:59:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjaFR-0002Uj-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:59:49 -0700 X-Sender: vajra1@pop3.mho.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:07:09 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) Subject: Re: Music Descriptions NOISE NOISE NOISE Resent-Message-ID: <"Nty32B.A.x_B.kgvuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/597 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:59:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 9aa815fb9b2cdbdd4bc6f54ba6028a26 >hi all! >a good book for anyone into the history of "noise" is a volume called >(suprisingly enough) "Noise" by Jacques Attali....a VERY interesting and >somewhat academic study on noise, and what the concept of noise entails in >many ways. i'm sure any of you loopers would be into this book....so head to >the library now! >bobby d/lvx nova Excellent suggestion Bobby! I'd add,tho I'm sure many already own a copy, that there is much to absorb re this "descriptions" thread in Brian Eno:The Vertical Colour of Sound. A must have for any ambient/loop enthusiast. B.P. From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 14:21:54 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 11:53:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjUXL-0004TC-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:53:55 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707021257.OAA02804@mailbox.swip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:43:57 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Misc/intro page Resent-Message-ID: <"35-hXC.A.9sD.7Jquz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/587 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:53:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 69af5c712076602105d66fc5f456efe2 At 2:57 PM +0200 7/2/97, Mattias Ribbing wrote: > I find the Loopers >Delight page very good but I think there is one thing missing to it: "An >Introduction To Looping". That would be a page where the basics of looping >are described and where common questions from from people who don«t know so >much about looping are answered. As a potential buyer of such an expensive >device there are lots of things you want to know. If anyone would make such >a page I am willing to help out since I am new to this and have lots of >questions (that I guess have been answered over and over again on this list). That's a good idea. We definitely need something like that. Anyone want to contribute to it? I think your way of helping would be great, actually. Since you are a beginner, you know the questions. Those of us that have been doing this for a while might know some of the answers, and probably don't know the critical questions so much anymore. (although we might be fools to think we don't need to ask them again.) Go ahead and ask the questions you have, and with some answers from different people we can make the Intro page. thanks kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 14:21:59 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 12:27:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjV3O-0007Dv-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:27:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:21:44 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970702152100_225431230@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"nQPYZB.A.fdG.Lqquz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/588 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:27:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 54fbd5f03006062698500e0d0655a793 In a message dated 7/1/97 11:15:17 PM, you wrote: <> Matthias, this is such a great story! I'm amazed that you can pop a tape in on a public bus at all. I can't even imagine this in the US. The Suffering Singers. That's a good name for a band. "I suffered for my music, now it's your turn." ( Frank Zappa) Jim From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 11:48:22 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 11:33:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjUDo-0002cv-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:33:44 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:30:27 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"AChFHC.A.S_B.a3puz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/586 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:33:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 390a2778862b533b4c59e8b3c1e731a7 Speaking of categorization... I help out at a local CD store, Happy Trails Records, Corvallis' only hip record store. I worked there for years, and now I help keeping the jazz, ethnic, and electronic sections stocked with cool stuff. Anyway, I was there the other day going through the new releases bulletin from Valley Music, our main distributor. Evidently, they just picked up Jon Durant's Alchemy Label, as I noticed most of their titles were lested as new releases. What was interesting was how they were categorized: Gary Willis was in jazz, Caryn Lin and Brian Gingrich in New Age, and Robby Aceto in Rock/Pop. Just thought this was interesting... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 14:22:07 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 13:07:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjVgc-0002Ws-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:07:34 -0700 Date: 02 Jul 97 15:59:52 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Message-ID: <970702195951_74074.1316_GHP92-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"fLzNVB.A.sxB.bOruz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/589 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:07:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 8b233a34a8367a80d6be1e8182f3ff94 Dave writes: >I help out at a local CD store, Happy Trails Records, Corvallis' only hip >record store. I worked there for years, and now I help keeping the jazz, >ethnic, and electronic sections stocked with cool stuff. Anyway, I was >there the other day going through the new releases bulletin from Valley >Music, our main distributor. Evidently, they just picked up Jon Durant's >Alchemy Label, as I noticed most of their titles were lested as new >releases. What was interesting was how they were categorized: Gary Willis >was in jazz, Caryn Lin and Brian Gingrich in New Age, and Robby Aceto in >Rock/Pop. Just thought this was interesting... Interesting, and fairly logical, given what we all do. I assume that the Krantz/Stern CD was also listed in Jazz, and my CD was in New Age? BTW, did anyone catch the review of my new CD in Guitar Magazine (in the Stevie Ray cover issue, July I think)? The reviewer, Jon Chappell, had an interesting hook: "Progressively Textural." OK, sounds about right. Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 14:22:08 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 13:08:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjVhV-0002d8-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:08:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:03:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: Music Descriptions To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RT56o.A.MCC.1Qruz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/590 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:08:29 -0700 X-UIDL: e2425d487c5b231b41beac2135577cd5 > Why not just think up some new descriptive term if you don't like what's > available? For example, it wasn't so long ago that there was no music > called Industrial. But as soon as someone did label their music Industrial, > it was pretty clear what they meant. > We don't go in the record store expecting to find a section called > "drumming," containing all the music with percussion used in it. Why do we > hope for a section just for loop based music? I expect to find it anywhere. very good points. someday, availability of such "labels" at retail outlets WILL be available depending on the depth of computerized cross-referencing. This, once again, is the crux of the issue. Anyone who is playing for more than personal pleasure needs to be aware that the world requires an appropriate interface in terms of categorization. If nothing else than for shorthand. The very first time someone used the word "Industrial", it MAY have referred to the textures it came to be associated with. It could have also been a description of assembly line structure without regard to specific style or music performed in obsolete factory buildings (like "House" being an offshoot of dance parties at the "Warehouse") or any one of a number of meanings. Industrial only had sonic meaning with time and consistency. It's unfortunate that there is so much bandwagoning of the use of popular cliches or styles of the day...it's also a convenient way of, hopefully, creating some sort of understanding when it comes to artforms that shouldn't NEED verbage. And I guess I'm being victimized by the overuse of the term jazz...too bad, cause it sure is useful when describing the improvisational aspect of what I frequently play...the music is directly tied to jazzrock fusion or the early 70s, freejazz of the 50s/60s, all the way back to the process and musical roles employed by the freer dixieland groups into the last century. I think it CAN be instructive to step back and take a look at where our contemporary roots are and be willing to see what we're doing from that perspective. If grunge or some alternative bands, for example, don't understand their own connection to punk, earlier garage metal bands or Chicago blues bands or wherever the case is, they're operating under delusions of originality. It may not matter to them personally, but they end up being ignorant of what their musical ancestors have done and how that history may instruct their own inspiration. I wish we didn't need the labels, original or otherwise, but, for better or worse, it's there. We can ignore them or twist them to our advantage. We don't have a choice about the their presence, only how we respond to it. From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 14:22:12 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 14:06:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjWbc-00071U-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:06:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:57:02 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions In-Reply-To: <970702195951_74074.1316_GHP92-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JfDfcB.A.jIG._Fsuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/591 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:06:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 43b854d72fad3c9eb717bdaf1a014b9f On 2 Jul 1997, Jon Durant wrote: > BTW, did anyone catch the review of my new CD in Guitar Magazine (in the Stevie > Ray cover issue, July I think)? The reviewer, Jon Chappell, had an interesting > hook: "Progressively Textural." OK, sounds about right. I was just in a bookstore the other day, leafing through the magazine rack, when I thought, "Say, Jon Durant said his new disc was reviewed in the SRV issue of _Guitar_ magazine." Sure enough, there it was. A very positive review, as well -- congratulations, Jon! And it's good to see that the Alchemy roster is being picked up for in-store distribution -- no mean feat for an avante-oriented indie label. (I think CMP -- or whatever they're called now -- could learn a thing or two from you as far as what to do with a roster of talented artists... but anyway...) _Guitar_ and _Guitar Shop_ both seem to be good outlets for coverage of more "out there" music; Pete Prown in particular, who writes for the former and edits the latter, is an avowed prog-rock/experimental fan, and devotes a substantial amount of print space to more off-beat, unusual releases. It's nice that there's some sort of outlet for that music seeping through the pop market-oriented coverage that tends to pervade most of the mainstream music press, particularly as the aforementioned mags tend to be slanted towards more mainstream-minded readers. They're not really any closer than anyone else towards coming up with elegant labels for more off-beat music, however. I still think that we're moving into a good period in terms of general receptiveness for what I'll generally refer to as electronically-derived loop-based music, which I think probably applies to just about everyone on this list regardless of stylistic or genre-specific orientation. Whether or not one buys into the whole "electronica as the new pop music" scenario (though I am curious to see if the new Prodigy album lives up to its prophecy as 'the "Nevermind" of techno,') I do think there's an increased curiosity and receptiveness towards electronically-based music, particularly of the live variety. Now is perhaps as good a time as ever for us to take our craft out into the public eye. --Andre p.s. - with the deluge of guitarists releasing techno/dance albums these days, I can't help but think how far ahead of the zeitgiest Torn was when he dabbled so successfully with electronic music on last year's _What Means Solid, Traveller?_. I suspect it'll still sound fresh when most of the rest of the current crop of electronic music reeks of late-'90s dance crossover. Too bad CMP didn't know what to do with it! From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 14:22:14 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 14:17:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjWmi-0000Em-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:17:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:12:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707022112.XAA13193@mailbox.swip.net> X-Sender: m-34212@mailbox.swipnet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mattias Ribbing Subject: Some questions for an intro page Resent-Message-ID: <"fG-2FD.A.eGH.cRsuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/592 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:17:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 7f28e6ca5d46d3e60c787b58ae75cae5 Hello, Here are a couple of questions. I can send more as I come up with any. Other newbies: Please write some of your own. Some of these might sound stupid for someone who has been doing this for a long time, but I think that these are the kinds of questions that people will ask that have just become interested in looping. If these questions are to be put on a web page, please correct any spelling or grammatical mistakes, since I«m not a native english speaker. How many looping tracks can you add to one loop? Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play? Can a looping device be used as an ordinary digital delay and reverb? When you finnish a looped piece of music, are there any other ways to end it than just stopping it? What«s the main difference between the looping devices on the market other than the memory? How much in general do you have to pay for a good looping device that you wont outgrow too quickly? Do looping devices work together with midi? From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:28 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 14:54:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjXLy-0003Lm-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:54:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:45:12 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 In-Reply-To: <199707020520.AAA13703@mail2.texas.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"T_i-yD.A.EoC.jxsuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/593 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:54:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 0bdc67fc8587f1f2b148e27d497d2b90 On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote: > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think) > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex, i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al. sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. ** Dan Howarth ** ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:29 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 15:44:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjY8Z-0000No-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:44:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199707022211.PAA06462@usr07.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Some questions for an intro page Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:10:35 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8QGGUB.A.4MH.Eituz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/595 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:44:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 12036313df47ca2b32a3313f1d391724 Ok, here goes for a start... > How many looping tracks can you add to one loop? This is depending upon the available technology at the time. Presently on the method I use - a Digitech 7.6-second 'Time Machine', I can produce up to 16 layers/stacks before they start 'popping off the stack', and out of earshot. Theoretically I can put 16 loops of equal length down before I hit the 'ceiling'. > Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play? No. Although my milieu at this time is primarily ambient, I also play with people like Oil Junkys, who do electronic work of a nearly 'musique concrete' nature. They use Echoplexes for looping, and it's a different animal altogether (which leads back to the first question!). My primary influences go back to Eno, Fripp, and others doing loop experiments years ago, which naturally slid me into the Ambient arena. We could all go on about this one, and we have too! This question is best answered by all of us on this list, to state the 'kind' of music we play. > Can a looping device be used as an ordinary digital delay and reverb? If the device IS a delay or reverb, or a multi-effects unit, sure! If it's an EchoPlex or other tape-based device, I'm sure this works also, though differently. The main problem with combining functionality in this regard is that these units are not multi-processing, multi-user in design. I suspect the main idea is to make us all buy a separate effects box for each foot of cable we use, huh? > When you finnish a looped piece of music, are there any other ways to end it > than just stopping it? With a 'garden variety' loop like mine, or one using tape, you can either just leave the loop open, and let each layer pop off the top of the 'stack' of loops, making sure that the Feedback is not quite set to infinite. This produces a naturally-deconstructing loop, which eventually just stops outputting anything. > What«s the main difference between the looping devices on the market other > than the memory? Method, I believe. The JamMan / etc. users should pipe up on this one. > How much in general do you have to pay for a good looping device that you > wont outgrow too quickly? I've been banging on my Digitech 7.6 for 5 years now, and I bought it used in '92 for $125. > Do looping devices work together with midi? Ones made later than mine do. This is especially useful (if not necessary) with MIDI, since some analog-controlled loops (like mine, no meter-setting, using knobs) can only provide an approximation of loop length via our brains. I therefore find the Digitech 7.6 somewhat useless in this regard, since I can't EXACTLY determine or set length to something else, except by ear. I'd be glad to compile all our responses together if Kim's too swamped with it, by the way. * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:28 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 15:33:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjXxT-00074Y-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:33:07 -0700 Message-ID: <33BAE7F7.7258@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 16:44:55 -0700 From: Rick Canton Organization: Kaynar X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lX4w3B.A.giF.OStuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/594 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:33:07 -0700 X-UIDL: f6a5130aa56787b08289e08d17e727ba Dan Howarth wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote: > > > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think) > > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after > > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was > > isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex, > i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify > the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al. > > sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. > > ** Dan Howarth ** > ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** > ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** but what is the sample frequencies or the boomerang? echoplex = cd quality , maximum 198 seconds. i thought i saw that the `rang had lower sampling rates w/ longer loop times....?? From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:30 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 17:02:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjZM4-00068b-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:02:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:56:40 -0400 (EDT) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970702195538_1757022211@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions NOISE NOISE NOISE Resent-Message-ID: <"0gCJkC.A.yYF.4ruuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/596 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:02:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 030ed7f5b613dab82848abe094adb03c In a message dated 7/2/97 11:14:11 PM, you wrote: >> Isnt Noise something rather negative? > >Interestingly, I've never thought of noise (in this context) as being >entirely negative. Then again, ever since I discovered my dad's old >reel-to-reel and began experimenting with loops (many, many years ago) I've >been captivated by noise (aka sound). hi all! a good book for anyone into the history of "noise" is a volume called (suprisingly enough) "Noise" by Jacques Attali....a VERY interesting and somewhat academic study on noise, and what the concept of noise entails in many ways. i'm sure any of you loopers would be into this book....so head to the library now! bobby d/lvx nova From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:32 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 19:04:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjbG7-0006va-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:35 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 21:59:37 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter) Subject: Stuff for looping intro Resent-Message-ID: <"n2SRPD.A.cKG.Lewuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/598 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:35 -0700 X-UIDL: d91f341d563b8d909b8995886a0dc6e0 Hi all, This issue may fit in with the looping intro thread. I use a loop device that does not have midi sync or tap tempo for setting delay time. I only have knobs. When I first started looping, I often had problems with getting the delay(record) time to match up with the tempo (beats/minute) and meter(number of beats/measure) of my musical ideas. I would often spend alot of time tweaking knobs and changing my idea until the machine and my idea agreed. Then of course I would come up with another and go through the process again. :-( I am sure there is a process or formulae for solving this problem, but I havent come up with a satisfactory solution yet (I am still compromising my musical ideas to fit the machine). To clarify, here is an example: How much delay time would it take to create a 2 bar groove in 7/4 at 100 beats/minute? Just the facts 'mam: 14 beats at 100 beats/minute 100 beats/minute = 1.7 beats/second 14 * 1.7 = 23.8 seconds Unfortunately I've got 8 seconds max with my machine. I would rather not get out the pen, paper and calculator just to get a simple groove going. How do you folks deal with this problem? Later, Hayden Porter hporter@uakron.edu From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:33 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 19:08:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjbK4-0007IG-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:08:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Stew Benedict Subject: new music - From The Caves Of The Iron Mountain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: stickwire-l.netcom.com@netcom.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uFZ9q.A.liG.Ojwuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/599 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:08:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 0ede66df5dbf7057fc0fe9b24ee316ad I had a wonderful surprise when I arrived home from work today. The cd and video from Tony Levin's recording made in the Widow Jane Mine. I received a flyer last week from Papa Bear, ordered by phone and got it today. In my humble opinion very nice, along the lines of Passion (Peter Gabriel), and World Diary, Tony's other cd. Although not technically looping material for you loopers, it has a distinct Eastern flavor, which I love, and a certain loopiness in the repetitive percussion and bass/stick lines. For you Tappists, the video has some nice closeups of Tony's technique on the Stick. I'm not affiliated with Papa Bear or Tony Levin in any way - just wanted to share. Tap/Loop On! Stew Benedict Teak Chapman Stick #926 From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:33 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 20:19:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjcQD-0003x4-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:19:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:15:16 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter) Subject: Re: gear schmear, music is best Resent-Message-ID: <"hN9_jD.A.UfD.Jlxuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/600 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:19:05 -0700 X-UIDL: ac21b04b53d8b61caf9acf3576055c72 Hi all, This came down the email pipe two weeks ago. >jeez, we can be the biggest gear geeks on the planet some days! > >Somebody pleeeeez start an interesting thread about music...anything! I'd >do it but i'm too busy and exhausted to think at the moment. anything but >gear...... > >kim I posted the following message to the list when the server was down so I guess it got stuffed. After my first round of ramblings about looping/repetition in classical music I remembered another technique which I thought some of you might find interesting. Isorhythm. This technique was common during the medieval and rennaisance and is also not uncommon in modern classical music. Isorhythm occurs when you combine rhythmic patterns and pitch patterns of different lengths. For example Pitch pattern is: A B C (3 events) Rhythm pattern is: Q(quarter note) E(eighth note) E Q (4 events) By combining these two patterns you get an interesting rhythmic effect, similar to polyrhythm. Since there are 3 events in one Pitch pattern and 4 events in one Rhythm pattern you will get a macro pattern that equals the least common multiple (LCM) of both patterns. In this case you get a 12 event macro pattern which consists of 3 rhythm patterns and 4 pitch patterns. Pitch: A B C| A B C| A B C| A B C| Rhythm: Q E E Q| Q E E Q| Q E E Q| This technique does not have to be limited to Pitch and Rhythm. You can apply it to any or all of the musical parameters (pitch, rhythm, volume, timbre, position in space) This technique is blatant looping, but by combining short looped patterns of different lengths you get a larger more varied structure. An example of this can be heard in Olivier Messian's orchestral work "Turangalila Symphony" (1946-48). Messian creates this massive orchestral work by combining looped patterns of different lengths in the context of isorhythm and polyrhythm. It is almost impossible to pick out the looping patterns in this work because the patterns are rather long and embeded in a complex polyphonic texture, but they are there. I am not sure how one would improvise such a structure or how this relates to looping on echoplex, jamman and the lot, but it is another example of how looping and repetition can be used in music. I would be interested in you thoughts about using this technique. Later, Hayden Porter hporter@uakron.edu From ???@??? Wed Jul 02 22:58:34 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 2 22:23:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjeMQ-0003dq-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:23:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:18:05 -0400 (EDT) From: JFOG10@aol.com Message-ID: <970703011805_-158863493@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: looping=ambient????? Resent-Message-ID: <"-OLG4D.A.FHD.PZzuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/601 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:23:18 -0700 X-UIDL: ef6750f050c1843b69d36b0840cd8d7f Hi......new list member here....enjoying the discussion. Recently someone( I deleted the post before I got the name) brought up the excellent point that many of us seem to assume that looping=ambient/space/new age/instrumental/...what the heck let's throw jazz in there , too!!!! LOL Well...here's my 2 cents on this issue. While I'm a big fan of many "ambient" guys ( Torn, Fripp,Michael Brook), this isn't really where MY muse lies. I come out of a blues, country, folk and rock background, mostly.I've owned a Jamman for @ a year now...and before that spent FAR too much time experimenting with repeat/hold on mere 2 second delays.For years I've felt like I was split in two ( or more) parts...my "spacey/out" side that loved to loop and mess with textures and my "rootsy/down to earth" side that stayed idiomatic, bluesy and melodic. So, the struggle for me in the past year or so has been to somehow join these seemingly divergent pieces into ONE single voice that is uniquely my own.Good luck , huh??? My quest began in earnest when I saw Daniel Lanois with Emmylou Harris doing, in his own way of course, what I'd only begun to consider.My course was set from that point on..... To be honest, I'd almost considered giving up on my more "spacey" proclivities, I had begun to think that the whole thing was just too esoteric.Luckily a couple of situations have shown me that I'm on the right track...... My buddy Caryn Lin ( electric Violinist/loopist) asked me to join her band which is playing around supporting her CD produced and very much played on by David Torn......also in this band in Bon Lozaga from GONG. Well , my loop stuff doesn't sound like Bon's loops....and it CERTAINLY doesn't sound like Torn...so I'm starting to believe it sounds like,well, me!!!!.....also, my wife Lindsay Gilmour( vocalist) has a wonderful band with myself and two of the areas top Jazz musicians on bass and vibes..(yup , there's that J word , again...but they really DO play jazz, the Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Charlie Haden kind!!! LOL)..Lindsay and I write fairly simple folky tunes which are then thoroughly messed with by the Jazz guys. Since I'm NOTa jazz musician by ANY stretch,and just strumming C,F &G chords behind them doesn't satisfy any of us, looping and laying down textures is a wonderful option. We recorded an original christmas tune today for a compilation and the arrangement that the other three came up with was real nice , but a bit too"Chestnuts Roasting O'er an Open Fire"-ey!!!! So I made a point of SERIOUSLY stretching it with some "out there" loops...........lo and behold, goodbye lounge, hello??????...welll something kinda, almost, dare i say it, ORIGINAL!!!! yeah!!!! Any way........i guess this is a (VERY) long winded way of telling you how looping has helped me outside of the "ambient" music stereotype that we have.....I'd LOVE to hear from any of you who are trying to travel this path also......and i look forward to all the talk about this crazy, beautiful technique that we love...thanks for your time. Take Care, JIM FOGARTY From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:25 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 04:30:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjk5x-0003N8-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:30:41 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:06:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Stuff for looping intro Resent-Message-ID: <"88l1uC.A.jxC.tx4uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/602 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:30:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 401f112ef956d7051a561e24b653af71 >Hi all, > >This issue may fit in with the looping intro thread. > >I use a loop device that does not have midi sync or tap tempo for setting >delay time. I only have knobs. the hard way, as you've noticed! >How much delay time would it take to create a 2 bar groove in 7/4 at 100 >beats/minute? > >Just the facts 'mam: > >14 beats at 100 beats/minute >100 beats/minute = 1.7 beats/second >14 * 1.7 = 23.8 seconds > >Unfortunately I've got 8 seconds max with my machine. > >I would rather not get out the pen, paper and calculator just to get a >simple groove going. > >How do you folks deal with this problem? music is my way of avoiding things like arithmetic, so I definitely wouldn't use your approach! A few things I might do, somewhat echoplex centric: - midi sync to a sequencer with a 7/4 pattern, which would be very accurate - tap tempo for the whole two bar length, very helpful to have something else going as a reference. - tap 1 bar and multiply it to get 2 or more - tap 1 bar, insert 1 or more after it - tap 1 beat, multiply it by 14 - "record-insert" for one beat, it then automatically inserts beats afterwards, stop at 14. More accurate, assuming you tap the first beat right. definitely an instance where I'd prefer buttons over knobs.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:26 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 04:30:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjk63-0003Nx-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:30:47 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33BAE7F7.7258@cyberportal.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:25:39 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Resent-Message-ID: <"TwulgD.A.wyC.0x4uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/603 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:30:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 903a8dc902331c006265af1b5f5396f3 >Dan Howarth wrote: >> >> On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote: >> >> > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i >>think) >> > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after >> > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was >> >> isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex, >> i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify >> the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al. >> >> sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. >> >> ** Dan Howarth ** >> ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** >> ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** > > > but what is the sample frequencies or the boomerang? >echoplex = cd quality , maximum 198 seconds. >i thought i saw that the `rang had lower sampling rates w/ longer loop >times....?? Yes, that's the difference. The echoplex sample rate is much higher than the boomerang's, so it uses more memory for the same amount of loop time. Sample rate translates directly to audio bandwidth. The echoplex sample rate is 41.4khz (slightly less than cd, actually). The boomerang is about 15khz, I believe. The echoplex audio bandwidth goes up to about 19 khz, while the boomerang is around 6-7khz, I think. Whether that matters to you depends on the type of signals you put through it and how picky you are. FWIW, the jamman sample rate is about 32khz, probably resulting in a 14-15Khz audio bandwidth. Healthy ears work up to about 20khz. I'm not sure what kind of memory the boomerang uses, the echoplex uses 30 pin simms. 198 seconds on the plex takes 4 4Mb simms. Those are about $17-$25 these days. So the full expansion will be less than $100. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:35 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 08:12:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjnYg-0005YW-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:12:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199707031506.IAA29036@scv4.apple.com> Subject: How to start looping--one man's view Date: Thu, 3 Jul 97 10:07:58 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"FJvtgD.A.lxE.x_7uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/608 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:12:34 -0700 X-UIDL: f1c74f2e143284594813f6201ff43c2d What do I need to start looping? Three things: ¥ Something to make sound (usually a musical instrument, often a guitar or keyboard) ¥ Something to repeat the sounds you've made (a delay line, usually digital) ¥ Something to amplify/reproduce the horrible sounds that result (an amp, PA, speaker cabinets, headphones) A practical example of one of the simplest looping rigs would be an electric guitar, plugged into digital delay, at least 2000ms worth, and a guitar amp. Say, a Stratocaster plugged into From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:24 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 04:30:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjk5V-0003LF-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:30:13 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970703011805_-158863493@emout18.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:13:17 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: looping=ambient????? Resent-Message-ID: <"1GI6ZC.A.7yC.1x4uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/604 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:30:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 4067866d5d8c14715355a9ec55a2a82d At 1:18 AM -0400 7/3/97, JFOG10@aol.com wrote: >Hi......new list member here....enjoying the discussion. Recently someone( I >deleted the post before I got the name) brought up the excellent point that >many of us seem to assume that looping=ambient/space/new >age/instrumental/...what the heck let's throw jazz in there , too!!!! LOL that was me, glad to see someone joining me in my crusade against the local ambient tyranny....:-) > Well...here's my 2 cents on this issue. > While I'm a big fan of many "ambient" guys ( Torn, Fripp,Michael >Brook), this isn't really where MY muse lies. I come out of a blues, country, >folk and rock background, I have a different background, but I agree in the lack of ambient muse category. The only Eno I've ever gotten around to listening to is his production work on Bowie's Outside album. (a friend of mine calls Eno "music for yawning") As for Fripp, I've spent almost as much time talking to him as I have listening to his music, oddly.... A lot of loopists come from a folk background. Acoustic guitar soloists seem to make up a strong minority. One person can get a fuller sound and create more complex parts. Phil Keaggy is one example, I think, but there are many others. And don't forget Chet Atkins! And our own Pat Kirtley. Bluegrass players take to looping quite quickly, it seems. I spent a couple of hours at a namm show demoing the echoplex for a couple of bluegrass players, who were sons of a really famous old country star. Can't remember which one, unfortunately...they were great players, and within minutes were looping all sorts of bluegrass phrases and overdubbing stuff on top. Worked great..... I even spent a good half hour with a couple of nice ladies who sang in a country group, explaining how they could loop their vocals for harmonies and such..... Jazz, Blues, sure! especially if you are playing a rhythm instrument. You go to play a solo, and your piece of the rhythm disappears. Why not loop it? Simple application, but works great. If you're in the Bay Area, try to see Fred Marshall's jazz group play sometime. The bass keeps groovin, and Fred's off with the bow.... I see people do that sort of thing quite a bit. Great way to practice too. Also in the jazz vein, there's Tim Weisberg, who's been looping his flute for a couple decades now..... Can rockers be loopers? Well, there's Neal Schon, who used loops all over the last Journey album. I believe its gone platinum...(you laugh, but if you saw his gear collection and studio, you wouldn't! He gets to do anything he likes these days, including a current foray into techno. I'd trade....) And then we get more into my neck of the woods..... I spent a LOT of time in my life listening to heavy metal. Metallica, ozzy, maiden, slayer, exodus, death angel, pantera... the heavier the better! Know what? I still like it! I have no shame, music that's aggressive and powerful makes me happy. Music to be injured by! I broke my foot moshing with primus, and I was darned proud! So what does that have to do with looping? Listen to speed metal sometime if you can. Fast, tight rhythms, long, structured songs, lots and lots of repetition. The amazing thing was that it took so long for someone to make the connection. But someone did, and that was: Al Jourgensen. Ministry's "The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste" is the definitive industrial album for me. The loops on it are great. In one instant, Al caused metal guitarists and alienated synth geeks all over the world to look at each other and say "maybe you're not the neanderthal/wimp that I thought you were, would you like to jam?" Guitarists bought samplers, synthesists bought guitars and fuzz boxes. Thousands of industrial bands spread across the lands....kmfdm, skinny puppy, nine inch nails... that was my intro to looping.... But what was that stuff the guys down the hall in my college dorm were playing? Don't believe the Hype? I hate rap, why can't I get that tune out of my head? For good reason.... Hip-hop is almost completely based on looping. Grandmaster Flash, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, the beastie boys, Dr. Dre, dj shadow.....loops everywhere. Styles and techniques for creating looped music were pioneered by dj's in the 70's and have spread to all manner of genres all around the globe. The single largest goosebump experience I have ever experienced was PE's Fear of a Black Planet....the rhythmic textures are stunning. If you've never listened to it, you owe it to yourself to try... Those early hip-hop artists were a big influence on the current candidate for Next Big Thing: Electronica. I admit it. I'm on the bandwagon and I don't care. I like this loop happy electronic stuff a lot. Techno, house, ambient-techno, drum n' bass, trance, trip-hop; there's a new one every week. The Orb blew my mind, both on cd and live. Meat Beat Manifesto, dj spooky, fsol, aphex twin, I'm there.... What else? Why are most of my loops created with funk rhythms? How about Dub? What's Matthias teaching to the Brazilians? What's happening in Africa? It's turning up all over the place...... looping=ambient? Not for me! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:38 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 09:04:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjoMt-0001Wo-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:04:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199707031556.IAA15242@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Isorhythm Date: Thu, 3 Jul 97 11:00:11 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"TtuaBD.A.l7.uw8uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/612 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:04:27 -0700 X-UIDL: e21f2e910090a5ac91a7aa88ffcd09e1 >>Pitch: A B C| A B C| A B C| A B C| >>Rhythm: Q E E Q| Q E E Q| Q E E Q| >> >>I am not sure how one would improvise such a structure or how this relates >>to looping on echoplex, jamman and the lot, but it is another example of >>how looping and repetition can be used in music. > >This sounds EXACTLY like what Eno & Fripp's early looping experiments >were after. In fact, like damn near everything Eno has done since. Doing >it live / improvising tho ... Difficult question. I have merely a Jamman, >and >the current software doesn't allow it to have multiple loops of different >lengths. Looking forward to the new updates!! > >thanx, >jj >jj1@compuserve.com Having loops of different lengths was one of the Great Leaps Forward in my musical and looping experience. I had an Echoplex, and then I dug out my old Digitech 3.7sec delay and put that in the rack. I could then set up a longer loop on the Echoplex, and then build something in the 3.7, sometimes locked in, most often not, and let those two loops percolate over time. You can't really sync the two, and although that would be nice (and is driving the current direction of expansion in my looping rig), there's a lot of territory you can cover with two odd-length, non-sync'ed loops. I'd recommend that everyone have at least two delay lines in their setup. The DOD FX90 or Zoom 508 will give you 4 seconds of delay for under $150. Travis From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:27 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 04:57:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjkVw-0004Rr-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:57:32 -0700 Date: 03 Jul 97 07:53:26 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Message-ID: <970703115325_74074.1316_GHP72-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"qUn9cB.A.KCE.qM5uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/605 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:57:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 961f15aa9efd90a407398ea8f967630b Andre writes: >_Guitar_ and _Guitar Shop_ both seem to be good outlets for coverage of >more "out there" music; Pete Prown in particular, who writes for the >former and edits the latter, is an avowed prog-rock/experimental fan, and >devotes a substantial amount of print space to more off-beat, unusual >releases. Funnily enough, Pete Prown has a review of Silent Extinction coming in the next issue of Guitar Shop. We've kicked around a concept for an article on "finding your own voice" though he thinks it may be better received in Guitar than Guitar Shop. It turns out that his readers get a little put off by columns that espouse mental activities: what they want are "put this knowb at 11, and that knob at 7 and you'll sound just like Nigel" articles. >p.s. - with the deluge of guitarists releasing techno/dance albums these >days, I can't help but think how far ahead of the zeitgiest Torn was when >he dabbled so successfully with electronic music on last year's _What >Means Solid, Traveller?_. I suspect it'll still sound fresh when most of >the rest of the current crop of electronic music reeks of late-'90s dance >crossover. Too bad CMP didn't know what to do with it! 'Tis true: the man has always been way ahead of his time. But it wasn't just that CMP didn't know what to do with it. It was more what they *couldn't* do that was at issue. Sometimes a record company can have the best of plans, and they still get squashed by an industry that isn't ready to accept change. And many times they don't have the resources to do what's necessary--especially if they can't see the return coming any time soon. And, of course, there's always the combination of all the elements that conspire against independents that end up making it nearly impossible to be "successful" in this biz without being a partner of one of the biggies. But that's no reason not to try! Jon Durant From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:28 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 06:48:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjmEr-0001Ij-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:48:01 -0700 Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F090E61@mail.exapps.com> From: David Kirkdorffer To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unsettling Ambience -- Driving an audience nuts with niceness. Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:46:07 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"bCXswC.A.2DB.A06uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/606 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:48:01 -0700 X-UIDL: c769191e376210003062c8b450d4a97d WT Hartnett writes: Some people are driven nuts by "waiting for the real music to start", and can't listen to ambient stuff without drums, fixed chord changes, etc. I know what you mean. I have a friend who once said he keeps waiting for "an event" in ambient music. I think one of the challenges ambient music poses to newbie listeners is "how to listen" to something that is not fitting into a known format. I believe it's the same challenge classical, jazz and folk music may pose to a typical top-40 trained ear. So, ironically even the most soothing ambient music can have an unsettling effect on an "uninitiated" audience. David > -----Original Message----- > From: T.W. Hartnett [SMTP:hartnett.t@apple.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 7:37 AM > To: Looper's Delight > Subject: Re: Music Descriptions > > >> In any case, I am still faced with a problem when I try to get > gigs. I > >> usually play at bookstores/art shows/galleries..and while booking > the > >> gig, I'm faced with "What kind of music do you play" by the booking > >> agent for the venue. > > > >Actually, if you look them in the eye, and say "Ambient", then when > they > >ask, say something short and simple as with "You know about 'Techno' > or > >electronic?" [pause] "It's like that, but softer. You can eat to > it." > > > >Restaurateurs, I suspect, would mostly hear the last sentence, > n'est-ce > >pas? And it's true, too. > > > >I wonder if there's an ambient version of Louie Louie in our future? > >[shudder] What if the club owner who demands it turns out to be the > kind > >of shmoe who thinks Jean Michel Jarre are three French guys? [g] But > I > >digress... > > I've had mostly good results trying to be background ambience while > people eat, but there are some people who react quite violently to > what > they regard as "droney noise", and this is in reaction to some really > unobstrusive sound carpets. Some people are driven nuts by "waiting > for > the real music to start", and can't listen to ambient stuff without > drums, fixed chord changes, etc. > > Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:33 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 07:40:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjn3K-00041i-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:40:10 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:08:12 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Cc: Nai@netflash.com.br (Nai) Resent-Message-ID: <"CflbcD.A.meD.qi7uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/607 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:40:10 -0700 X-UIDL: f52d683cfeedb8f4590cf3a4f08e1849 >Funny, after I play there, the next time I return (with my guitar synths >and e-bows), >I'm listed in the Newspaper under 'folk'. > >Again, what do these people hear? I do not thinks its too bad. My music walkes toards the traditional music, because the old archetypes of melodies is what we like and enhance the ambience. And I have better contact to musicians playing traditional that those playing jazz, for example. Still, its very far from popular music in some respect :-) Matthias From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 13:32:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjsY5-0007Jn-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:32:17 -0700 From: /G=Brian/S=Thomson/OU=0/OU=Unknown/@prudential.co.uk X400-Originator: /G=Brian/S=Thomson/OU=0/OU=Unknown/@prudential.co.uk X400-Recipients: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=PRUDENTIAL/ADMD=CWMAIL/C=GB/;0014400002017585000002] X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Message-Id: <0014400002017585000002*@MHS> To: " - (052)Loopers-Delight(a)annihilist.com" Subject: Re. Unsettling Ambience + Paul Schutze + Ensoniq ASR-X Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:26:06 +0100 Resent-Message-ID: <"VlyYEC.A.tfG.QtAvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/616 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:32:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 53043ff6f1d2e1f8453c5f4247393fe0 Hi There... David wrote: "... I think one of the challenges ambient music poses to newbie listeners is "how to listen" to something that is not fitting into a known format. I believe it's the same challenge classical, jazz and folk music may pose to a typical top-40 trained ear." I have to agree with that - I had an experience with a friend who was staying over one night. I put on a piece I did that involved re-recording, at a higher tape record speed, a piece on guitar on an answering-machine cassette in a four-track, mixed through an octave divider, reverb, and Bob knows what else. The result was a bit grainy and stomach-twisting when listened to, but he went to sleep to it when he stopped listening... Then there's Robert Fripp's experiences at the Queen Elizabeth Hall on the South Bank here in London - not the hall itself, but the foyer! I was there, and Robert described it pretty accurately in the liner notes to his November Suite (*****): some people sat on chairs roughly facing the guitar, drinking beer and espresso, talking, reading, sleeping, babies crying, along with performers and public wandering into and out of the hall. (There was some dance performance on there that the audience in chairs on the stage and the performers dancing along the aisles..!) So, we see what you mean..! Is anybody here familiar with the work of Paul Schutze*? I have his double CD "Apart" (AMBT6), released on the Virgin Ambient label like their compilations. He's definitley using some form of looping there, but I can't honestly say whether it's looping in the audio domain or loop-on-record mode on a sequencer linked to a sampler. Does anybody have any more detail that can't be found on the web? I'm fast becoming a fan - "Apart" reminds me of the best bits of "FFWD" (The Orb + Fripp), with echoes of Sylvian & Czukay, or a bit like Mr. Torn at half-speed! Lastly,, have any of you seen the Ensoniq ASR-X? Seens to be similar in concept to teh Aki Remix16 mentioned here recently, but might be more "musical". 20-bit A/D! Or their DP/Pro, which does have "tap" buttons and a "Loop Recorder" setting like the Lexicon MPX-1, but under three seconds memory in stereo mode? Reading you guys gives me an attack of GAS - that's Gear Avarice Syndrome for the unwary! Cheers, Brian Thomson, London UK bnt@ibm.net * yes, I know about the umlaut! Don't trust the character sets... ***** Five Stars. Stunning! Hi There... (oops! hit that loop fade switch!) From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:35 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 08:12:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjnZ0-0005aO-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:12:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707031507.LAA20269@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Durant/La Fosse press Resent-Message-ID: <"tBekt.A.d7E.OC8uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/609 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:12:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 8f909e9fd21a10ad7a4e2a72c317e9f9 Andre (West) said...."...when I thought, "Say, Jon Durant said his new disc was reviewed in the SRV issue of _Guitar_ magazine." Sure enough, there it was. A very positive review, as well -- congratulations, Jon! And it's good to see that the Alchemy roster is being picked up for in-store distribution.. yes, Jon, congrats !! lets spread the word... AND - also a hearty congrats to Andre' LaFosse- he is listed as being in the very prestigious fourth & final round of the musician best unsigned band competition-- yeah !!! win this one, me namesake looping brother !!! let's shake up the oligarchy with some REALLY new music..! Congrats & good luck, buena suerte! I also think this prodigy-driven music "re-revolution" is great 'cos it'll get some new ears attuned to electronic, loopy otherworldly type sounds. THis "guitar is dead" nonsense is laughable, though ! another great, recently overlooked CD was Todd Rundgren's (TR-I) "No World Order" - it's a great, sorta dance -oriented, beat-heavy "electronica?" affair with tons of great guitar solos and biting social/personal/political commentary. Sure, at times the occassional rap-vocals don't quite work, but it's interesting to hear this hybrid of stuff in 1990, by a pretty well known artist, yet this release was panned and ignored by the same critics who'll now get out the kneepads for the prodigy-orb chemical tricky brothers. keep looping and writing, all! andre east coast ps - nj area loopers pls e-mail me directly - live looping/samples/percussion next week at the brighton bar in longbranch/nj 9:45 pm "Jfk's Lsd-Ufo" is my duo. e-mail me !! > From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:36 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 08:43:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjo2g-0007aV-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:43:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:35:41 -0400 From: "Jason N. Joseph" Subject: Music Descriptions To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199707031135_MC2-19C1-CB68@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"HXYVjD.A.QnG.zc8uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/610 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:43:34 -0700 X-UIDL: b0493245447f7210d0b7db24f1560c9d I must say that all this talk of how we categorize (or at least describe) our music has really struck a nerve for me. I hear a lot of you saying that this has been a point of irritation; I'm to the point where it is not merely annoying, but fairly angst-ridden. I identified somewhat with the "newage" moniker when it was fairly new and, like any new genre, I suppose, was at least in some ways "pushing the boundaries". There was some serious experimenting going on. We all know what kind of watered-down "inoffensive background noise" it turned into. Now I listen to my first CD (released in '92) and it absolutely *sickens* me to hear "newagey" elements in it, and to think that it has been categorized as such. And while the music that I've written since then has certainly evolved and changed, my fear is that it will still be heard as "pleasant background noise". Thus I think the question "What do they hear?" is a bloody brilliant and relevant one to be asking. I'm becoming more and more aware that at least for me, there seems to be a widening discrepancy in how I experience the music I write when I write and perform it, and what is heard by the audience. I experience it as deeply emotional, complex, and "boundary-pushing"; a comment I get a lot is "that was really nice... relaxing". Naturally this whole issue sends me into a tailspin of despair. Is this inevitable? Is it our mere choice of asthetic? I remember the revelation of listening to German "noise band" P16.D4 who use *exactly* the same composing processes as Brian Eno ... but instead of Eno's choice of swirly synthy sounds, they use things like found environmental noise, car crashes, weird unidentifiable sounds, etc. Thus they're experienced as much more "experimental" and "boundary-pushing" when the only real difference is choice of sounds. I've always played what I consider a variety of styles, but this whole issue of being categorized as "newage" has been subtly working at me over the last few years, and I find myself introducing more and more aggressive elements into my music ... wanting to "toy" with the audiences' relationship to the music (i.e. attention level, etc.) rather than having the music of such a type that it allows the listener to define that relationship for themselves. However I'm afraid this will lead me down the path of most pop or rock music (which I tend to dislike for the same reasons I dislike new age), which is extremely limited in the kind of relationship it demands from its audience. I know I'm rambling here, but I've always been addicted to the cerebral bits of how and why we do what we do. I could ramble indefinitely about how we conceptualize the relationship between performer, music, and audience, and various ways we as experimental musicians wish to manipulate that relationship. I'd love to know what the rest of you think about this, and if there's really any hope regarding how we're labeled and the asthetic we choose. Thanks fer listenin' Jason N. Joseph Comfortably Obscured Productions jj1@compuserve.com I From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:37 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 08:53:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjoC3-0000ZM-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:53:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:48:33 -0400 From: "Jason N. Joseph" Subject: Isorhythm To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199707031148_MC2-19C1-CC82@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"GRkw4B.A.WP.no8uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/611 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:53:15 -0700 X-UIDL: c51da33d0924c299fbde3062212de1f9 > >Pitch: A B C| A B C| A B C| A B C| >Rhythm: Q E E Q| Q E E Q| Q E E Q| > >I am not sure how one would improvise such a structure or how this relates >to looping on echoplex, jamman and the lot, but it is another example of >how looping and repetition can be used in music. This sounds EXACTLY like what Eno & Fripp's early looping experiments were after. In fact, like damn near everything Eno has done since. Doing it live / improvising tho ... Difficult question. I have merely a Jamman, and the current software doesn't allow it to have multiple loops of different lengths. Looking forward to the new updates!! thanx, jj jj1@compuserve.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:56 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 06:12:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk89b-0005IB-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:12:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199707041308.IAA02143@mail.tds.net> From: "Bruce Gerow" To: Subject: Re: Jamman loop border q's Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:36:59 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dm7fVD.A.knE.AXPvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/635 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:12:03 -0700 X-UIDL: aa828e6be60683de8b998f88dd9d2a0c Hello Henry, I see you are a cello player.I recently saw Gideon Freudmann in concert.He is an excellent cellist and heavily into looping.Check out his CD "Cellobotomy" among others.I very recently steered him to the Loopers Delight page so he may show up here. LooseBruce (a squeezer) ---------- > From: Henry Throop > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Jamman loop border q's > Date: Friday, July 04, 1997 2:45 AM > > Hello, > > I've got two jamman questions: > > a) I've almost always get audible 'blurts' at the beginning of my > loops. This effect is not just a mismatch at the loop-point, but an > actual volume-increase for the first 1/4 sec or so of the loop. It > makes creating pads on the unit pretty difficult. I've found that I > can work around this to loop a sustained chord, but it's awkward: > > o first tap the loop length, with no input signal > o then use the phrased-loop mode to record exactly one cycle of signal > > Apparently, whatever causes the blurt puts it there only while > recording the original loop, but not while overdubbing. Has anyone > else experienced this? > > b) Another loop-boundary problem I've had is this > > o set up a loop in phrased-loop mode > o use replace to replace the entire loop with silence > > When I do this, the entire loop's not replaced, but there's a short > snippet (100 ms?) of it left in at the boundary. If I replace the > entire loop again, the snippet gets shorter, but it takes several > replacements before the original loop's really out of there. Anyone > else? > > By way of introduction, I play cello, originally from a classical > background, right now going through an atmospherics & wierd noises > phase. During college, I'd often get together with guitarists or other > cellists, turn the lights out, and enter into hour-long free-form > improvisations. This is what I'm itching to do more of -- anyone else > on the list in Boulder / Denver area? > > -henry > throop@colorado.edu > > From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:56 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 06:11:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk88p-0005EF-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:11:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199707041308.IAA02185@mail.tds.net> From: "Bruce Gerow" To: Subject: Vortex Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:43:13 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ITmS2D.A.6pE.TXPvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/636 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:11:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 9b38fc6018d1176ca3b551824afbe156 Hi Loopers (& Loopettes ?) I recently saw 2 vortexs for sale in a music shop.They wanted $300 for each.Is that a little high or the going rate now?I was looking for JamMen and was told the Rappers were buying them up. LooseBruce From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:41 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 09:58:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjpCf-0005vO-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:57:57 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:51:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707031651.SAA26728@mailbox.swip.net> X-Sender: m-34212@mailbox.swipnet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mattias Ribbing Subject: Another newbie question. Resent-Message-ID: <"rlcZSD.A.7_E.ji9uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/614 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:57:57 -0700 X-UIDL: a862cd30a2fd35af976a464a6102361f Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio? In that case, is there a shareware verion of it? Mattias Ribbing From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 11:58:40 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 09:55:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjp9e-0005cg-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:54:50 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:50:50 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"Nh-A7B.A.OtE.zf9uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/613 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:54:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 59c962115c63ccb6c2a430e7bce2a77f >Dave writes: > >>I help out at a local CD store, Happy Trails Records, Corvallis' only hip >>record store. I worked there for years, and now I help keeping the jazz, >>ethnic, and electronic sections stocked with cool stuff. Anyway, I was >>there the other day going through the new releases bulletin from Valley >>Music, our main distributor. Evidently, they just picked up Jon Durant's >>Alchemy Label, as I noticed most of their titles were lested as new >>releases. What was interesting was how they were categorized: Gary Willis >>was in jazz, Caryn Lin and Brian Gingrich in New Age, and Robby Aceto in >>Rock/Pop. Just thought this was interesting... > >Interesting, and fairly logical, given what we all do. I assume that the >Krantz/Stern CD was also listed in Jazz, and my CD was in New Age? > If I remember right, your disc was in Rock/Pop also. Anyway, I ordered copies of all of them. Let's see if I still work there after this... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:05 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 12:35:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjrfF-0002u9-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:35:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:28:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Squidlyguy@aol.com Message-ID: <970703152843_274705661@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"tBd3e.A.LRC.x2_uz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/615 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:35:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 049d930fedf81da3ca0fe1d547bd308a Do you still have the Vortex? If so, does it have the foot controller? (and does that have an expression pedal on it?) Brian - From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:13 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 14:28:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjtQ4-0003qP-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:28:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199707032122.OAA18180@usr07.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Isorhythmic Variance Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:20:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P1UjTD.A.XMD.lgBvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/617 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:28:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e320aa37a41fdd5f5ddd9509205ddef In the last one, Travis said: > Having loops of different lengths was one of the Great Leaps Forward in > my musical and looping experience. I concur! I did it by using an old method applied to new tech: Whereas my digital loop is maximum 7.6 seconds, a sound file engineered to be looped in addition to the 7.6 loop can be ANY length, within obvious limitations like disk space. It's led to some interesting experiments, though I can't repeat them on the fly as one might with a rack setup. >You can't really sync the two, and although that would be > nice (and is driving the current direction of expansion in my looping > rig), there's a lot of territory you can cover with two odd-length, > non-sync'ed loops. Again I have to agree - and, while synching is next-to-impossible on this, given my 7.6 delay's tendency to decrease its pitch over a long period of time (a tone lowered 3 steps in about 24 hours in a recent experiment, infanticible in many respects, but still as a result non-syncable), I'm forced to just Deal With It. The result is a quasi-organic pair of signals, which, when played on top of, gives a nice, deep texture without overdubs. Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of working with mistakes", paraphrased. In this regard it applies well here. I wouldn't have worked with the non-synching setup this way otherwise. * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:13 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 14:28:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjtQN-0003sP-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:28:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199707032125.OAA18317@usr07.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Another newbie question. Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:24:22 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7V3Nz.A.taD.mjBvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/618 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:28:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 752bc3879b7cea04c30b7fa6384a33c6 Hi Mattias, You asked: > Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio? > In that case, is there a shareware verion of it? To the first, Yes, and it's not the Media Player. If you have a Sound Blaster card, you've already got the package, which is called anything from Creative Ensemble to Wave Studio, depending on the version you've got. Outside of that, go to http://www.syntrillium.com and get CoolEdit - it does a good job of real looping (and it's the package I use to record my work!) * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:14 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 14:44:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjtfw-0005Gi-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:44:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199707032143.OAA17272@gw1.bi-tech.com> From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Isorhythmic Variance Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:45:24 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m89mMB.A.JiE.qwBvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/619 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:44:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 619ca78f49dc39d04119750cad7c0653 > From: Stephen P. Goodman > Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of > working with mistakes", paraphrased. In this regard it applies well here. Well said! Lately I've been working on the audio for a CD-ROM and I'm noticing that my best ideas come about from mistakes -- at least when programming drum tracks. A humbling realization indeed......unless you decide to embrace the concept and run with it. As a result of doing just that, my songwriting partner and I have been priding ourselves in our ability to "compose by haphazard." Matt From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:16 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 15:07:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wju1t-00076t-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:07:09 -0700 Message-ID: <33BC22AC.D000AA4A@gte.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 18:07:40 -0400 From: future perfect X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: What do they hear??? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LN20lB.A.IUG.wGCvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/620 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:07:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 9ee8141f0fc39842431dd687bd9c7c74 Loopers, I'm interested to know what non-musicians/non-loopers compare your music to? Often, especially non-musicians, have no point of reference to compare looped and/or ambient music to. At gigs, I often have people come up and say, 'Wow! That sounds a little like Enya' (I forgive them, 'cause they're not exposed to ambient music much..) or even 'It sounds like modern rennaissance music'..I even heard.."it sounds like folk opera' (?!?). In any case, it really doesn't matter what we call it- I'm sure Fripp hates the term 'progressive rock', but thats what Crimson is called by the press and general public. Its interesting to get feedback from non-musicians/non-loopers. What has your music been called? -- ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:16 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 17:00:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjvnB-00004S-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:00:05 -0700 Message-ID: <33BC3E48.699B@dmans.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:05:28 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YNDMKD.A.UHH.owDvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/621 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:00:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 72cc3ce2d2787ef120e02d114ade4bd4 Dan Howarth wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote: > > > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think) > > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after > > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was > > isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex, > i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify > the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al. > > sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. The above price was actually $629 and was our original 4M (2 min./4 min.) MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price). In the early going we sold a lot directly to customers, and had to sell at the MSRP to avoid angering our dealers. The MSRP is now $599, and stores sell the unit for $499 or slightly less. Also, if you are not near a Boomerang dealer, you can mail order from Music Center in Kenosha, WI at 414-697-9393. Ask for Rob or Tom. Motley a.k.a. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:17 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 17:08:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjvuq-0000gS-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:08:00 -0700 Message-ID: <33BC405A.3F1A@dmans.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:14:18 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 References: <33BAE7F7.7258@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sr712.A.uY.-4Dvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/622 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:08:00 -0700 X-UIDL: ade59988591768223eda830d42e01fe7 Rick Canton wrote: > but what is the sample frequencies or the boomerang? > echoplex = cd quality , maximum 198 seconds. > i thought i saw that the `rang had lower sampling rates w/ longer loop > times....?? Yes, the sample rate is lower on the Boomerang Phrase Sampler. The 'Rang samples at either 16K or 8K; certainly less than CD quality but more than enough for electric guitar which barely produces 6-7K through a good quality tube amp. The Rang also sounds great with bass; Victor Wooten uses one. And I find mine acceptable with my GR50 guitar synth, though I will not tell you that it's pristine CD quality. We have sold over 700 Rangs so far and have had about 5 complaints about sound. I guess it depends on your application as to whether you'll find it to your liking. The 6 string bass player in my band uses a Rang on 60% of our tunes, and he loves it. Motley a.k.a. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 17:22:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjw97-0001pS-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:22:45 -0700 Message-ID: <33BC4111.5F7556DE@ccnet.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:17:21 -0700 From: Roland Eberle Reply-To: roland@ccnet.com Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970703152843_274705661@emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"GkWTRD.A.cgB.THEvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/624 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:22:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 8edb1e253d3a145f16a04240611a1037 Squidlyguy@aol.com wrote: > Do you still have the Vortex? If so, does it have the foot > controller? (and > does that have an expression pedal on it?) > > Brian - long gone...standard equip from factory = power supply, manual, 1 (2 button)footswitch.happy hunting...they are getting both rare and expensive. From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 17:19:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjw6F-0001Wd-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:19:47 -0700 Message-ID: <33BC4305.534E@dmans.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:25:41 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stuff for looping intro References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V4dkNB.A.CLB.lDEvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/623 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:19:47 -0700 X-UIDL: fe0545a12118b61ca1c874ed7a2d4a5b Hayden Porter wrote: > I use a loop device that does not have midi sync or tap tempo for setting > delay time. I only have knobs. > > When I first started looping, I often had problems with getting the > delay(record) time to match up with the tempo (beats/minute) and > meter(number of beats/measure) of my musical ideas. I would often spend > alot of time tweaking knobs and changing my idea until the machine and my > idea agreed. Then of course I would come up with another and go through > the process again. :-( > > I am sure there is a process or formulae for solving this problem, but I > havent come up with a satisfactory solution yet (I am still compromising my > musical ideas to fit the machine). > > How much delay time would it take to create a 2 bar groove in 7/4 at 100 > beats/minute? > > 14 beats at 100 beats/minute > 100 beats/minute = 1.7 beats/second > 14 * 1.7 = 23.8 seconds > > Unfortunately I've got 8 seconds max with my machine. > > I would rather not get out the pen, paper and calculator just to get a > simple groove going. > Simple - buy a unit that has tap tempo, e.g. Boomerang Phrase Sampler or Echoplex. Motley From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:19 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 17:37:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjwMo-0002uO-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:36:54 -0700 Message-ID: <33BC4731.3900@dmans.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:43:29 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping=ambient????? References: <970703011805_-158863493@emout18.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NSPIhD.A.dhC.PUEvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/625 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:36:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 7cb1b3bdc64341a7867f884f943faf70 JFOG10@aol.com wrote: > > Hi......new list member here....enjoying the discussion. Recently someone( I > deleted the post before I got the name) brought up the excellent point that > many of us seem to assume that looping=ambient/space/new > age/instrumental/...what the heck let's throw jazz in there , too!!!! LOL Jim, I agree with your comment that looping = ambient in the minds of many, but I also have other influences that are stronger and more important to me. My current short instrumental set consists of four original tunes: 1) pop/rock, 2) classical feeling piece with finger picking, 3) shuffle with a jazzy feel, and finally 4) a very heavy thing with saturated tones that dissolves into noise before fading out. Another slice of non-ambient looping is the band I play with, the Rotten Rubber Band. We play all original swampy, river blues; very groove oriented. There's a trash percussionist, 6 string bassist who sings & plays harmonica, and guitar. That's the core, but usually someone else is present: another guitarist, a psycho trombone player who frequents this group, random percussion and juggling personel. None of the above music could be described as ambient or jazz, it's way to structured; though there is plenty of room to express yourself and have fun. I'd be interested in hearing from other non-ambient loop meisters. Motley From ???@??? Thu Jul 03 18:11:20 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 17:43:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjwTU-0003PS-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:43:48 -0700 Message-ID: <33BC48BD.443A@dmans.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:50:05 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R4l50C.A.N_C.faEvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/626 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:43:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 96cfff1225ce07d9a7ffe37c97980a06 Kim Flint wrote: > Yes, that's the difference. The echoplex sample rate is much higher than > the boomerang's, so it uses more memory for the same amount of loop time. > Sample rate translates directly to audio bandwidth. The echoplex sample > rate is 41.4khz (slightly less than cd, actually). The boomerang is about > 15khz, I believe. The echoplex audio bandwidth goes up to about 19 khz, > while the boomerang is around 6-7khz, I think. The Boomerang Phrase Sampler has two sample rates: 16K and 8K. On the higher rate, the audio bandwidth is almost 8K. By the way the slower rate is for slowing down recorded material you want to learn OR creating bass parts OR making a r e a l l y l o n g loop. Motley From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 00:51:52 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 19:04:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjxjc-0000O9-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:04:32 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:59:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer) Subject: GR Electronics Resent-Message-ID: <"b0Qi1C.A.mK.OmFvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/627 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:04:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 1ed26fa2b674176161aa6b92238103ea For all you Roland GR300 & 700 fans & users, I stumbled upon a repair shop here in LA that has a stash of & can get more of BRAND NEW in the box GR series setups for guitars (pickups & electronics). They have done tons of installs & are doing one right now on my Steinberger GM4T as we speak! I won't bore the group with details so Email me if you want to know more. Eric (It's July 3rd so I'm getting looped) Fischer efisch@artnet.net From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 00:51:59 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 21:21:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wjzs3-0000qG-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:21:23 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:16:43 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Resent-Message-ID: <"xSh2FD.A.lc.TlHvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/628 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:21:23 -0700 X-UIDL: a3c4b91059db4da716e22e8470526c76 >> and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think) >> he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after >> shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was > >isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex, >i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify >the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al. > >sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi effect by its number of presets. Matthias From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 00:52:00 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 21:42:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk0By-0002Gw-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:41:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:39:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bybvUB.A.K7B.05Hvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/629 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:41:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 52f591503c56995f1130633defa3f93f > >sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. > > Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi > effect by its number of presets. ......from each looping device according to its abilities, to each looping artist according to his or her needs. From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 00:52:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 22:15:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk0iZ-00044w-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:15:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:09:28 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZnK8mB.A.WhD.-XIvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/630 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:15:39 -0700 X-UIDL: cf90dbb3e088be048a67a1c62ec958e9 > Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi > effect by its number of presets. > almost but not quite... i'm quite sure that we all have different opinions of equipment, et al. - it all depends on what you're looking for from a particular unit. no need to be hasty. ** Dan Howarth ** ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 00:52:03 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 3 23:48:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk2Ah-0000iX-00; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:48:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:45:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Henry Throop To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman loop border q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XSmt-B.A.me.UwJvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/631 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:48:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 0478af3f2107e6f379182c3ef7088ee4 Hello, I've got two jamman questions: a) I've almost always get audible 'blurts' at the beginning of my loops. This effect is not just a mismatch at the loop-point, but an actual volume-increase for the first 1/4 sec or so of the loop. It makes creating pads on the unit pretty difficult. I've found that I can work around this to loop a sustained chord, but it's awkward: o first tap the loop length, with no input signal o then use the phrased-loop mode to record exactly one cycle of signal Apparently, whatever causes the blurt puts it there only while recording the original loop, but not while overdubbing. Has anyone else experienced this? b) Another loop-boundary problem I've had is this o set up a loop in phrased-loop mode o use replace to replace the entire loop with silence When I do this, the entire loop's not replaced, but there's a short snippet (100 ms?) of it left in at the boundary. If I replace the entire loop again, the snippet gets shorter, but it takes several replacements before the original loop's really out of there. Anyone else? By way of introduction, I play cello, originally from a classical background, right now going through an atmospherics & wierd noises phase. During college, I'd often get together with guitarists or other cellists, turn the lights out, and enter into hour-long free-form improvisations. This is what I'm itching to do more of -- anyone else on the list in Boulder / Denver area? -henry throop@colorado.edu From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:46 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 01:51:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk45E-0005Ug-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:51:16 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 04:46:38 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970704044637_1244102184@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"HBw2p.A.S_E.piLvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/632 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:51:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 566450492f2ca5ee3610a3bd5eefb014 In a message dated 7/3/97 9:41:49 PM, you wrote: <> The main problem really is anything getting heard at all. For the most part, you can forget radio stations. Their main purpose is supplying bodies to advertisers. There are a few record stores that allow listening but it's always a pain. It's too bad really. So little imagination goes into this. Most places blast horrid music and then expect you to be able to actually hear something in the headphones. Here in Portland, Oregon, there is a shop called Ozone. It has an amazing selection of unusual music from all over. Stuff you rarely see anywhere else. But there is just one CD player (there are some preloaded listening stations as well) and that is under a speaker that is always blasting away. I've tried to listen to stuff there but I always end up frustrated and leave. I'd buy a lot of recordings there and other places if they would create some kind of isolated listening station. CD's and records aren't cheap. To be able to hear a few things off a recording before plunking down the bucks seems essential. It's the best way to check things out that you will never hear on the radio or read about. Some enterprising character out there should start a string of shops that take a more interesting approach to the customer interface. Maybe some weird,subdued lighting , for a bit of atmosphere, and a nice spot to sit and get comfortable. I know I'd be there exploring, and I'd buy a lot of stuff. Jim From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:47 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 02:00:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk4Dp-0005rz-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 02:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199707040857.BAA02410@usr02.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: What do they hear??? Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:57:51 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8ZIM6D.A.gYF.OsLvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/633 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 02:00:09 -0700 X-UIDL: e2735052141cddb6942e65c89cf973fb Future Perfect asked: What has your music been called? Well, the most common instance with 'non-musical types' (if by that you mean non-playing or understanding) has been that they were 'thinking of scenes like in movies' while the pieces were playing. So, "Soundtrack music", for one. "Atmospheric music" second-place. "Your music", third place. Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:47 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 02:04:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk4I5-00068C-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 02:04:33 -0700 Message-ID: <33BCCA51.4419@fredmarshall.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 02:02:58 -0800 From: fred marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: "top-40 trained ear" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7tqKgD.A.OoF.SwLvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/634 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 02:04:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 5839d56d0b5bc07c1a699f5ae5f2ede3 - someone wrote: - "I believe it's the same challenge classical, jazz and folk music may pose to a typical top-40 trained ear." - sounds like an oxymoron . . . mmmmmmm From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:58 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 07:35:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk9SX-0000Gp-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:35:41 -0700 Message-Id: <25103.199707041431@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:31:30 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: What do they hear??? Resent-Message-ID: <"4KcuiD.A.UB.hlQvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/637 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:35:41 -0700 X-UIDL: ecc63bc7571e3f5a10406de72b2cf75f If nothing else, I think this argument shows that even _we_, by and large, don't know what kind of music we play - and then get upset when other people don't know either!! I think - being honest - that this group has something of a tendency towards taking itself a bit too seriously. That's not to say that making music isn't a deep and serious event. Perhaps what I'm saying is that sometimes there's an intellectual snobbery around here. Most people seem deeply offended by an association with New Age. However, I think that whilst there's an awful lot of crap under that banner it often extends to people like Mike Oldfield and Vangelis (musicians I have the utmost respect for). Olfield has also been called "Art Rock", "Progressive Rock" and "Contemporary Classical". It probably isn't any of these, but who cares? He doesn't. Most people don't. We're never as unique as we think we are, and pushing the boundaries is only likely to be noticed by someone who knows what those boundaries are, dreamed of breaking them and hasn't had a bad day at the office. If people say I'm playing New Age, and it keeps 'em happy, fine. It doesn't change the music in any way. I think the only time this becomes a problem is when we're trying to get gigs or put CDs in bins (the latter being a problem for very few). As regards gigs, I'd say just be pragmatic and say whatever's most likely to get the gig. Ditto the record bins, just put the CD where it'll sell the most. In fact, New Age music buyers are oftem more likely to make impulse purchaces than people shopping from the Rock/Pop section, hence more sales. I think maybe this ties in with an old thread about whether we be artists or entertainers. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 * "And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft * just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:59 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 07:51:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk9hL-000139-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:50:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:32:31 +0100 Message-ID: <00051EF7.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Re: What do they hear??? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"TNTZw.A.Ru.kzQvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/639 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:50:59 -0700 X-UIDL: c2e77ba9f1e9e801838549c5bed78782 > What has your music been called? "Lyrical and groovacious" - Guitar Player "A combination of Frisellian twang and minimalist delicacy" - Time Out (listings magazine for London area) Sounds good to me, but I've no idea what an archetypal "normal punter" would make of these... David From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:33:58 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 07:37:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk9U9-0000Od-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:37:21 -0700 Message-Id: <25180.199707041433@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:33:57 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: What do they hear??? Resent-Message-ID: <"m_X-pC.A.2L.NoQvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/638 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:37:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 599b129a8efa87eb9c5de5f629a200c7 Stephen: >Well, the most common instance with 'non-musical types' (if by that you >mean non-playing or understanding) has been that they were 'thinking of >scenes like in movies' while the pieces were playing. So, "Soundtrack >music", for one. If someone said that to me I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven! :) Anything that gets over that much emotional suggestion must be doing something right! Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 * "And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft * just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:00 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 07:51:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wk9hr-000168-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:51:31 -0700 Message-Id: <25434.199707041446@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:46:40 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Some questions for an intro page Resent-Message-ID: <"LK5rIC.A.-v._zQvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/640 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:51:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 5072d1097cc3efff58638f6e23d4d48c >Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play? This reminds me - my fave looper Ed Alleyne-Johnson now has a web-page at http://spasm.redcat.org.uk/~graham/alleyne-johnson/ Ed plays contemporary classical electric violin, playing counterpoint against himself. It may be canonical or fugal - if memory serves. It's very good, though. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 * "And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft * just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:00 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 08:21:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkAAd-0002ee-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:21:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:17:30 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970704111729_816848664@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"sELwJD.A.NTC.ERRvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/641 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:21:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 0904dba67d2454ad6c3959f5c4af771c The "Unsettling Ambiences" thread reminded me of a passage in one of my old theory books, so I went back into the archives and found it. It's from Jerry Coker's book "Improvising Jazz" (copyright 1964), page 15, and, I think, applicable to the disscussion at hand. It's a quote from Richmond Browne (at the time a jazz pianist and theory instructor at Yale University): "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell (Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized." Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while." Food for thought?--Paul (Mindscape Explorer/Chapman Stick Player/Loopist) From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 08:44:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkAXW-0003li-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:44:54 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:41:12 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"G_5-C.A.mRD.ymRvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/642 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:44:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e73b38b0dd0e15535c8bf259f8aebc6 >In a message dated 7/1/97 11:15:17 PM, you wrote: > ><voices in thirds singing about suffering from love and heartattachments, I >came up with a tape of mine and they put it in. But at the the first >somewhat fatter, harmonically still simple loop, the discussion started and >a guy said that he is tortured by such music. I asked where it hurts and he >pointed at his forehead. >Why? >Why did he not suffer with the suffering singers? >>> > >Matthias, this is such a great story! I'm amazed that you can pop a tape in >on a public bus at all. I can't even imagine this in the US. The >Suffering Singers. That's a good name for a band. "I suffered for my >music, now it's your turn." ( Frank Zappa) good In the discussion it was mentioned, that its actually forbidden, but who cares... It was not in the city, rather a crazy region anyway... Matthias From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 08:47:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkAZk-0003vR-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:47:12 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:42:12 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: humbling healthy mistakes Resent-Message-ID: <"hn41qD.A.haD.foRvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/643 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:47:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 002b42594e0c986a1481bdb836b6f9b7 Stephen: >> Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of >> working with mistakes", paraphrased. In this regard it applies well >here. Matt: >Well said! Lately I've been working on the audio for a CD-ROM and I'm >noticing that my best ideas come about from mistakes -- at least when >programming drum tracks. A humbling realization indeed......unless you >decide to embrace the concept and run with it. As a result of doing just >that, my songwriting partner and I have been priding ourselves in our >ability to "compose by haphazard." healthy humbling... if we accept the pleasure of music as coming from its capability to mirror or represent some higher power or structure - or however I could put that more open even - its not so amazing that we need the interference of this power or structure to give sense or essence to complete our effort of creating. As long as our mind or the computer hold on what he thinks is correct, there is no way to grow. If we do not temporarily disauthorize or even disable our mind from its desire to completely direct our creation, the higher power or structure might help us by disturbing our mind, introducing errors, to show us the way. It might be completely different, though... Matthias From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:16 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 11:08:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkCmp-0002qf-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:08:51 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Negative Eye" To: future perfect , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:43:56 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Deaf People (Re: What do they hear???) Reply-to: juma@cyberia.net.ar Priority: normal In-reply-to: <33BC22AC.D000AA4A@gte.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"P3cm5D.A.rdC.puTvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/648 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:08:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 850f8c464525bf42d74780b80932b638 From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:15 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 11:05:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkCjy-0002ZU-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:05:54 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Negative Eye" To: Mattias Ribbing , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:43:56 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: CW3 Re: Another newbie question. Reply-to: juma@cyberia.net.ar Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"wvSUPD.A.9NC.XrTvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/647 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:05:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 9d88bedf7d7a44fdd0c84d1108a1f956 On 3 Jul 97 at 18:51, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.co wrote: > Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio? In > that case, is there a shareware verion of it? Mattias Ribbing Hello Matias and Looping people, The software sequencer CakeWalk 3.x has the loop option. You can also specify how many loops will it do and when they will start rolling, and pitch shifting. You can have up to 256 tracks looping (if you can!). It does not handle audio, but it does with midi, and of course, a wavetable card. The actual version is 6 (but the loop option is over!). You can still create them by copy and paste x times. It does handle audio and realtime effects. Here there may be demos to try: www.cakewalk.com ftp.cakewalk.com Hope It Helps Juan Manuel Aguirre aka ->thE negativE eyE -->negativE visioN --->negativE imagE From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:08 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 08:44:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkAXF-0003jv-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:44:37 -0700 X-From_:MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jul 04 08:44:30 1997 Received: from zeus.maxtor.com [134.6.32.3] by ferret with smtp (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkAX6-0003dk-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:44:28 -0700 Received: from Longmont64.Maxtor.COM (longmont64.mlm.maxtor.com [134.6.79.210]) by zeus.maxtor.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA21329 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:43:14 -0600 Received: by Longmont64.Maxtor.COM; Fri, 4 Jul 97 9:42:50 MDT Old-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 97 9:43:27 MDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: Subject: Undeliverable Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain X-Diagnostic: Mail to artmusic@gte.net bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:44:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 33156097232f4eafbfe80cecf942563c To: Cc: Subject: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #104 Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3043: Bret Moreland@Eng67@MCO VNM3043 -- MAILBOX IS FULL The message cannot be delivered because the recipient's mailbox contains the maximum number of messages, as set by the system administrator. The recipient must delete some messages before any other messages can be delivered. The maximum message limit for a user's mailbox is 10,000. The default message limit is 1000 messages. Administrators can set message limits using the Mailbox Settings function available in the Manage User menu (MUSER). When a user's mailbox reaches the limit, the user must delete some of the messages before the mailbox can accept any more incoming messages. ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 104 Today's Topics: Re: Another newbie question. [ "Stephen P. Goodman" ] What do they hear??? [ future perfect ] Re: FS: Boomerang $399 [ "Mikell D. Nelson" ] Re: looping=ambient????? [ "Mikell D. Nelson" ] Jamman loop border q's [ Henry Throop ] Vortex [ "Bruce Gerow" ] Re: What do they hear??? [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: What do they hear??? [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: What do they hear??? [ David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton ] Re: Some questions for an intro page [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Unsettling Ambiences [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:24:22 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Another newbie question. Message-Id: <199707032125.OAA18317@usr07.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mattias, You asked: > Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio? > In that case, is there a shareware verion of it? To the first, Yes, and it's not the Media Player. If you have a Sound Blaster card, you've already got the package, which is called anything from Creative Ensemble to Wave Studio, depending on the version you've got. Outside of that, go to http://www.syntrillium.com and get CoolEdit - it does a good job of real looping (and it's the package I use to record my work!) * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:45:24 -0700 From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Isorhythmic Variance Message-Id: <199707032143.OAA17272@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Stephen P. Goodman > Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of > working with mistakes", paraphrased. In this regard it applies well here. Well said! Lately I've been working on the audio for a CD-ROM and I'm noticing that my best ideas come about from mistakes -- at least when programming drum tracks. A humbling realization indeed......unless you decide to embrace the concept and run with it. As a result of doing just that, my songwriting partner and I have been priding ourselves in our ability to "compose by haphazard." Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 18:07:40 -0400 From: future perfect To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: What do they hear??? Message-ID: <33BC22AC.D000AA4A@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Loopers, I'm interested to know what non-musicians/non-loopers compare your music to? Often, especially non-musicians, have no point of reference to compare looped and/or ambient music to. At gigs, I often have people come up and say, 'Wow! That sounds a little like Enya' (I forgive them, 'cause they're not exposed to ambient music much..) or even 'It sounds like modern rennaissance music'..I even heard.."it sounds like folk opera' (?!?). In any case, it really doesn't matter what we call it- I'm sure Fripp hates the term 'progressive rock', but thats what Crimson is called by the press and general public. Its interesting to get feedback from non-musicians/non-loopers. What has your music been called? -- ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:05:28 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Message-ID: <33BC3E48.699B@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Howarth wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote: > > > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think) > > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after > > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was > > isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex, > i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify > the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al. > > sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. The above price was actually $629 and was our original 4M (2 min./4 min.) MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price). In the early going we sold a lot directly to customers, and had to sell at the MSRP to avoid angering our dealers. The MSRP is now $599, and stores sell the unit for $499 or slightly less. Also, if you are not near a Boomerang dealer, you can mail order from Music Center in Kenosha, WI at 414-697-9393. Ask for Rob or Tom. Motley a.k.a. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:14:18 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Message-ID: <33BC405A.3F1A@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick Canton wrote: > but what is the sample frequencies or the boomerang? > echoplex = cd quality , maximum 198 seconds. > i thought i saw that the `rang had lower sampling rates w/ longer loop > times....?? Yes, the sample rate is lower on the Boomerang Phrase Sampler. The 'Rang samples at either 16K or 8K; certainly less than CD quality but more than enough for electric guitar which barely produces 6-7K through a good quality tube amp. The Rang also sounds great with bass; Victor Wooten uses one. And I find mine acceptable with my GR50 guitar synth, though I will not tell you that it's pristine CD quality. We have sold over 700 Rangs so far and have had about 5 complaints about sound. I guess it depends on your application as to whether you'll find it to your liking. The 6 string bass player in my band uses a Rang on 60% of our tunes, and he loves it. Motley a.k.a. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:25:41 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stuff for looping intro Message-ID: <33BC4305.534E@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hayden Porter wrote: > I use a loop device that does not have midi sync or tap tempo for setting > delay time. I only have knobs. > > When I first started looping, I often had problems with getting the > delay(record) time to match up with the tempo (beats/minute) and > meter(number of beats/measure) of my musical ideas. I would often spend > alot of time tweaking knobs and changing my idea until the machine and my > idea agreed. Then of course I would come up with another and go through > the process again. :-( > > I am sure there is a process or formulae for solving this problem, but I > havent come up with a satisfactory solution yet (I am still compromising my > musical ideas to fit the machine). > > How much delay time would it take to create a 2 bar groove in 7/4 at 100 > beats/minute? > > 14 beats at 100 beats/minute > 100 beats/minute = 1.7 beats/second > 14 * 1.7 = 23.8 seconds > > Unfortunately I've got 8 seconds max with my machine. > > I would rather not get out the pen, paper and calculator just to get a > simple groove going. > Simple - buy a unit that has tap tempo, e.g. Boomerang Phrase Sampler or Echoplex. Motley ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:17:21 -0700 From: Roland Eberle To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Message-ID: <33BC4111.5F7556DE@ccnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Squidlyguy@aol.com wrote: > Do you still have the Vortex? If so, does it have the foot > controller? (and > does that have an expression pedal on it?) > > Brian - long gone...standard equip from factory = power supply, manual, 1 (2 button)footswitch.happy hunting...they are getting both rare and expensive. ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:43:29 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping=ambient????? Message-ID: <33BC4731.3900@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JFOG10@aol.com wrote: > > Hi......new list member here....enjoying the discussion. Recently someone( I > deleted the post before I got the name) brought up the excellent point that > many of us seem to assume that looping=ambient/space/new > age/instrumental/...what the heck let's throw jazz in there , too!!!! LOL Jim, I agree with your comment that looping = ambient in the minds of many, but I also have other influences that are stronger and more important to me. My current short instrumental set consists of four original tunes: 1) pop/rock, 2) classical feeling piece with finger picking, 3) shuffle with a jazzy feel, and finally 4) a very heavy thing with saturated tones that dissolves into noise before fading out. Another slice of non-ambient looping is the band I play with, the Rotten Rubber Band. We play all original swampy, river blues; very groove oriented. There's a trash percussionist, 6 string bassist who sings & plays harmonica, and guitar. That's the core, but usually someone else is present: another guitarist, a psycho trombone player who frequents this group, random percussion and juggling personel. None of the above music could be described as ambient or jazz, it's way to structured; though there is plenty of room to express yourself and have fun. I'd be interested in hearing from other non-ambient loop meisters. Motley ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:50:05 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Message-ID: <33BC48BD.443A@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kim Flint wrote: > Yes, that's the difference. The echoplex sample rate is much higher than > the boomerang's, so it uses more memory for the same amount of loop time. > Sample rate translates directly to audio bandwidth. The echoplex sample > rate is 41.4khz (slightly less than cd, actually). The boomerang is about > 15khz, I believe. The echoplex audio bandwidth goes up to about 19 khz, > while the boomerang is around 6-7khz, I think. The Boomerang Phrase Sampler has two sample rates: 16K and 8K. On the higher rate, the audio bandwidth is almost 8K. By the way the slower rate is for slowing down recorded material you want to learn OR creating bass parts OR making a r e a l l y l o n g loop. Motley ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:59:51 -0800 From: efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: GR Electronics Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For all you Roland GR300 & 700 fans & users, I stumbled upon a repair shop here in LA that has a stash of & can get more of BRAND NEW in the box GR series setups for guitars (pickups & electronics). They have done tons of installs & are doing one right now on my Steinberger GM4T as we speak! I won't bore the group with details so Email me if you want to know more. Eric (It's July 3rd so I'm getting looped) Fischer efisch@artnet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:16:43 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think) >> he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after >> shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was > >isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex, >i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify >the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al. > >sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi effect by its number of presets. Matthias ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:39:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal. > > Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi > effect by its number of presets. ......from each looping device according to its abilities, to each looping artist according to his or her needs. ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:09:28 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi > effect by its number of presets. > almost but not quite... i'm quite sure that we all have different opinions of equipment, et al. - it all depends on what you're looking for from a particular unit. no need to be hasty. ** Dan Howarth ** ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:45:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Henry Throop To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman loop border q's Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, I've got two jamman questions: a) I've almost always get audible 'blurts' at the beginning of my loops. This effect is not just a mismatch at the loop-point, but an actual volume-increase for the first 1/4 sec or so of the loop. It makes creating pads on the unit pretty difficult. I've found that I can work around this to loop a sustained chord, but it's awkward: o first tap the loop length, with no input signal o then use the phrased-loop mode to record exactly one cycle of signal Apparently, whatever causes the blurt puts it there only while recording the original loop, but not while overdubbing. Has anyone else experienced this? b) Another loop-boundary problem I've had is this o set up a loop in phrased-loop mode o use replace to replace the entire loop with silence When I do this, the entire loop's not replaced, but there's a short snippet (100 ms?) of it left in at the boundary. If I replace the entire loop again, the snippet gets shorter, but it takes several replacements before the original loop's really out of there. Anyone else? By way of introduction, I play cello, originally from a classical background, right now going through an atmospherics & wierd noises phase. During college, I'd often get together with guitarists or other cellists, turn the lights out, and enter into hour-long free-form improvisations. This is what I'm itching to do more of -- anyone else on the list in Boulder / Denver area? -henry throop@colorado.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 04:46:38 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Message-ID: <970704044637_1244102184@emout02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 7/3/97 9:41:49 PM, you wrote: <> The main problem really is anything getting heard at all. For the most part, you can forget radio stations. Their main purpose is supplying bodies to advertisers. There are a few record stores that allow listening but it's always a pain. It's too bad really. So little imagination goes into this. Most places blast horrid music and then expect you to be able to actually hear something in the headphones. Here in Portland, Oregon, there is a shop called Ozone. It has an amazing selection of unusual music from all over. Stuff you rarely see anywhere else. But there is just one CD player (there are some preloaded listening stations as well) and that is under a speaker that is always blasting away. I've tried to listen to stuff there but I always end up frustrated and leave. I'd buy a lot of recordings there and other places if they would create some kind of isolated listening station. CD's and records aren't cheap. To be able to hear a few things off a recording before plunking down the bucks seems essential. It's the best way to check things out that you will never hear on the radio or read about. Some enterprising character out there should start a string of shops that take a more interesting approach to the customer interface. Maybe some weird,subdued lighting , for a bit of atmosphere, and a nice spot to sit and get comfortable. I know I'd be there exploring, and I'd buy a lot of stuff. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:57:51 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: What do they hear??? Message-Id: <199707040857.BAA02410@usr02.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Future Perfect asked: What has your music been called? Well, the most common instance with 'non-musical types' (if by that you mean non-playing or understanding) has been that they were 'thinking of scenes like in movies' while the pieces were playing. So, "Soundtrack music", for one. "Atmospheric music" second-place. "Your music", third place. Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 02:02:58 -0800 From: fred marshall To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: "top-40 trained ear" Message-ID: <33BCCA51.4419@fredmarshall.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - someone wrote: - "I believe it's the same challenge classical, jazz and folk music may pose to a typical top-40 trained ear." - sounds like an oxymoron . . . mmmmmmm ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:36:59 -0400 From: "Bruce Gerow" To: Subject: Re: Jamman loop border q's Message-Id: <199707041308.IAA02143@mail.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Henry, I see you are a cello player.I recently saw Gideon Freudmann in concert.He is an excellent cellist and heavily into looping.Check out his CD "Cellobotomy" among others.I very recently steered him to the Loopers Delight page so he may show up here. LooseBruce (a squeezer) ---------- > From: Henry Throop > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Jamman loop border q's > Date: Friday, July 04, 1997 2:45 AM > > Hello, > > I've got two jamman questions: > > a) I've almost always get audible 'blurts' at the beginning of my > loops. This effect is not just a mismatch at the loop-point, but an > actual volume-increase for the first 1/4 sec or so of the loop. It > makes creating pads on the unit pretty difficult. I've found that I > can work around this to loop a sustained chord, but it's awkward: > > o first tap the loop length, with no input signal > o then use the phrased-loop mode to record exactly one cycle of signal > > Apparently, whatever causes the blurt puts it there only while > recording the original loop, but not while overdubbing. Has anyone > else experienced this? > > b) Another loop-boundary problem I've had is this > > o set up a loop in phrased-loop mode > o use replace to replace the entire loop with silence > > When I do this, the entire loop's not replaced, but there's a short > snippet (100 ms?) of it left in at the boundary. If I replace the > entire loop again, the snippet gets shorter, but it takes several > replacements before the original loop's really out of there. Anyone > else? > > By way of introduction, I play cello, originally from a classical > background, right now going through an atmospherics & wierd noises > phase. During college, I'd often get together with guitarists or other > cellists, turn the lights out, and enter into hour-long free-form > improvisations. This is what I'm itching to do more of -- anyone else > on the list in Boulder / Denver area? > > -henry > throop@colorado.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:43:13 -0400 From: "Bruce Gerow" To: Subject: Vortex Message-Id: <199707041308.IAA02185@mail.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Loopers (& Loopettes ?) I recently saw 2 vortexs for sale in a music shop.They wanted $300 for each.Is that a little high or the going rate now?I was looking for JamMen and was told the Rappers were buying them up. LooseBruce ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:31:30 +0100 From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: What do they hear??? Message-Id: <25103.199707041431@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If nothing else, I think this argument shows that even _we_, by and large, don't know what kind of music we play - and then get upset when other people don't know either!! I think - being honest - that this group has something of a tendency towards taking itself a bit too seriously. That's not to say that making music isn't a deep and serious event. Perhaps what I'm saying is that sometimes there's an intellectual snobbery around here. Most people seem deeply offended by an association with New Age. However, I think that whilst there's an awful lot of crap under that banner it often extends to people like Mike Oldfield and Vangelis (musicians I have the utmost respect for). Olfield has also been called "Art Rock", "Progressive Rock" and "Contemporary Classical". It probably isn't any of these, but who cares? He doesn't. Most people don't. We're never as unique as we think we are, and pushing the boundaries is only likely to be noticed by someone who knows what those boundaries are, dreamed of breaking them and hasn't had a bad day at the office. If people say I'm playing New Age, and it keeps 'em happy, fine. It doesn't change the music in any way. I think the only time this becomes a problem is when we're trying to get gigs or put CDs in bins (the latter being a problem for very few). As regards gigs, I'd say just be pragmatic and say whatever's most likely to get the gig. Ditto the record bins, just put the CD where it'll sell the most. In fact, New Age music buyers are oftem more likely to make impulse purchaces than people shopping from the Rock/Pop section, hence more sales. I think maybe this ties in with an old thread about whether we be artists or entertainers. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 * "And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft * just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:33:57 +0100 From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: What do they hear??? Message-Id: <25180.199707041433@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Stephen: >Well, the most common instance with 'non-musical types' (if by that you >mean non-playing or understanding) has been that they were 'thinking of >scenes like in movies' while the pieces were playing. So, "Soundtrack >music", for one. If someone said that to me I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven! :) Anything that gets over that much emotional suggestion must be doing something right! Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 * "And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft * just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:32:31 +0100 From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: What do they hear??? Message-ID: <00051EF7.1424@mail.bl.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part > What has your music been called? "Lyrical and groovacious" - Guitar Player "A combination of Frisellian twang and minimalist delicacy" - Time Out (listings magazine for London area) Sounds good to me, but I've no idea what an archetypal "normal punter" would make of these... David ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:46:40 +0100 From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Some questions for an intro page Message-Id: <25434.199707041446@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play? This reminds me - my fave looper Ed Alleyne-Johnson now has a web-page at http://spasm.redcat.org.uk/~graham/alleyne-johnson/ Ed plays contemporary classical electric violin, playing counterpoint against himself. It may be canonical or fugal - if memory serves. It's very good, though. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 * "And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft * just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:17:30 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unsettling Ambiences Message-ID: <970704111729_816848664@emout18.mail.aol.com> The "Unsettling Ambiences" thread reminded me of a passage in one of my old theory books, so I went back into the archives and found it. It's from Jerry Coker's book "Improvising Jazz" (copyright 1964), page 15, and, I think, applicable to the disscussion at hand. It's a quote from Richmond Browne (at the time a jazz pianist and theory instructor at Yale University): "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell (Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized." Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while." Food for thought?--Paul (Mindscape Explorer/Chapman Stick Player/Loopist) ------------------------------------------------------------ From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:17 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 09:13:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkAzU-0005Nx-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:13:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970704121124.0069dbb0@infinitesound.com> X-Sender: verner@infinitesound.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 12:11:24 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: verner@infinitesound.com Subject: Music Descriptions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"x4QWN.A.W3E.KCSvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/645 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:13:48 -0700 X-UIDL: f3e25b6ff30d3deed89fef2425202b6f Look, the bottom line is this: It doesn't matter what label or category you choose for music - there is (and always will be) good and bad stuff! It doesn't matter if it is New Age, Classical, Rock, Techno, Ambient, etc. etc. Some of it will be good and some bad. So it makes no sense to categorically generalize about any genre or style of music. Unfortunately, we as a society "have" to put things into categories to feel comfortable. J. Arif Verner Infinite Sound Studio http://www.infinitesound.com/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:16 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 08:57:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkAjT-0004SI-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:57:15 -0700 Message-ID: <33BD2AE7.2953@fredmarshall.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 08:55:25 -0800 From: fred marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IHFAx.A.5AE.6yRvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/644 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:57:15 -0700 X-UIDL: ed9eec5c7046f0a27f1f7b54450640f4 - someone said: "Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while. Food for thought? " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - thought sandwich: - player and "listener" are SAME person. - only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) - don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . . - fred marshall From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 10:34:19 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 10:27:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkC8r-0000pA-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:27:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:24:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <970704111729_816848664@emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vUWa7B.A.Pl.jHTvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/646 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:27:33 -0700 X-UIDL: f9421df7bec74d86a391b0dcde20103d > "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal > predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, > or something different...if the player never repeats anything, no matter how > tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is > not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions > right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. > Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while." .....excellent post. I remember how my drives used to be a) give the audience something they've never experienced before which means, in most cases...b) do only what you're inspired to do, that if only one person can relate and is somehow changed, that's successful. After so many years of hearing "that's, uh, interesting, thanks, bye", I began to pay more attention to this business of audience experience and expectations. I first started including a few flavors of styles other than primal inspirations (Cage mixed with equatorial rhythms and melodies). For example, using funkier basslines with bluesy "events" let me keep my textures and compositional techniques while enhancing the predictability ratio. Then, when I finally acknowledged we live in visual society, I found the use of original video or silent movies or even an edited weird hodgepodge opened some of those soundtrack doors in their heads that I could walk music through as well. We've come a long ways since the blackbox electronic music concerts, for those who go back that far. If you're famous enough to set the audience afire with your very presence, that's one thing, but if you find yourself beaten down by quizical indifference, start collaborating with a few sword swallowers, fire eaters and flying magicians. Or just show them on TV. @) But, seriously, you don't have to sellout to find a more "interesting" package to help sell your presentation. spore kim From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:19 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 15:55:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkHGX-0006y2-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:55:49 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:50:05 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions In-Reply-To: <970704044637_1244102184@emout02.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kownjB.A.qZG.o7Xvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/649 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:55:49 -0700 X-UIDL: af97c4dbca8b70474e044bcf037b01f0 On Fri, 4 Jul 1997 BlkSwan03@aol.com wrote: > There are a few record stores that allow listening but it's > always a pain. It's too bad really. So little imagination goes into this. > Some enterprising character out there should start a string of shops that > take a more interesting approach to the customer interface. Maybe some > weird,subdued lighting , for a bit of atmosphere, and a nice spot to sit and > get comfortable. I know I'd be there exploring, and I'd buy a lot of stuff. I've actually found Blockbuster Music to be invaluable in this regard -- they'll let you listen to just about any CD in the store (with the exception of things like Disc 5 of that 20-disc, factory-sealed boxed set, for example) at a decent listening station, with no obligation to buy. The problem is that just about all the employees at the local branch here now probably know me as "the guy who's always listening to stuff and never buys it." Oh well -- not my fault that Best Buy has the stuff for about 30% cheaper! --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 04 16:19:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Oct 4 16:06:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0xHdGt-0000fs-00; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 16:06:03 -0700 Message-ID: <33BD808A.E5A1ABEA@ccnet.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 16:00:26 -0700 From: Roland Eberle Reply-To: roland@ccnet.com Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: VORTEX X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199710041221.IAA00662@mail.colba.net> Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"YykBAC.A.IN.9qsN0"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/712 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 16:06:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e596d84130ecd78d5a16637a2afd79c Julia & Dave wrote: > Hi, > > I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. Lexicon PSUs are > really pricey. we're talking about $50, and yes they are available > only from Lexicon unless you have access to a real good parts > supplier. > > As far as footswitches are concerned, you'll have to find one > with a TRS output. Lexicon uses RE-AN footswitch circuits; > they are a British company that makes all the nice plastic > connectors you see on the back of your lexicons and most > european gear. > > Hope this helps a little. > > D 4 V 1 D K R 1 5 T 1 4 N > > "Echo is Instant Nostalgia" > > jndk@colba.net > > http://www.total.net/~alien8/Kristian.html > > ---------- > > From: Bruce Gerow > > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > > Subject: VORTEX > > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 1997 10:35 AM > > > > Hi Loopers and Loopets, > > Can anyone suggest sources and/or perhaps know of prices for > power > supplys > > (wall Warts) that are good for the Lexicon Vortex.The unit says 9v > AC at > 1 > > amp.It also says use Lexicon msa ac adapter.Are they available from > > Lexicon?Also looking for footswitches. > > Thanks, > > LooseBruce Not true...Lexicon sells power supplies for about $11.00 plus s/h...one of the few things they dont gouge for IMHO(I've bought 3) From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:24 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 17:49:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkJ2Y-0003Nt-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 17:49:30 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:46:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Squidlyguy@aol.com Message-ID: <970704204627_1178746323@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"CAgO2.A.1BD.emZvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/650 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 17:49:30 -0700 X-UIDL: eb366003d286269f036a1a3c2c07cd85 I've been thinking about buying a Vortex, but this particular one doesn't have a foot controller. Can anyone tell me if there are any other footcontrollers that I can use with it other than the standard one - I don't know if it's midi, or just a footswitch. I wouldn't want to buy one if I have to tweek with the knobs every time I want to change/morph between effects. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Also, I'm a novice looper, on the verge of getting a Digital pro, but I'd like to hear about the satisfaction of other Vortex owners. I get the impression that, if used creatively, this unit greatly helps transform and personalize your loops, and even becomes a vital part of many looper's sound. I've always been amazed at how David Torn has been able to transform many simple sounds into a huge evolving soundscape, but am not sure how much of this spectaclar feat I can attribute to a single device. Thanks. Brian From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:24 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 18:00:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkJCe-0003oG-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 17:59:56 -0700 Message-ID: <33BD9BC7.70A53AF6@gte.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 20:56:39 -0400 From: future perfect X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZVz_DC.A.BcD.1vZvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/651 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 17:59:56 -0700 X-UIDL: a0975d8225172a4bfb58d3ca5da19271 Hi, everyone- I'm Misha, the other member of 'Future Perfect' (ambient, prog-ish, renaissan-cy Florida duo), and I've been reading the recent posts of musical descriptions, audience reactions, 'our art in the world' etc., and dug up this quote from a favorite author, which I thought may spark further discussion: "Bringing back the gift to integrate it into a rational life is very difficult. It is even more difficult than going down into the underworld. What you have to bring back is something that the world lacks- which is why you went there to get it- and lacking it, the world does not know that it needs it. And, so on the return, when you come with your boon for the world and there is no reception, what are you going to do? There are three possible reactions. One answer is to say, 'To hell with them, I'm going back to the woods'. You buy yourself and dog and a pipe and you let the weeds grow in the gate. You have come back to the world with your gift, and people look at you with glassy eyes, call you a 'kook', and so you retreat. This is refusal of the return. The second way is to say, 'What do they want?' You have a skill. You can give them what they want, the commercial way. Then you have created a whole pitch for your expressivity, and what you had before gets lost. You have a public career, and you have renounced the jewel. The third possibility is to try to find some aspect of the domain into which you have come that can receive a little portion of what you have to give. You try to find a means to deliver what you have found as the life boon in terms and in proportions that are proper to the world's ability to receive. It requires a good deal of compassion and patience. Look for cracks in the wall and give only to those who are ready for your jewel." ~ Joseph Campbell Misha -- ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:27 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 19:23:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkKVP-0006lp-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:23:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:19:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Fmplautus@aol.com Message-ID: <970704221923_-1058484954@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"MIEAbD.A.gMG.y9avz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/652 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:23:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 2ffe34c0ebc2340a30397d6708d149cd Dear Brian: The Roland EV-5 pedal works very well with the Vortex in combination with the *^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals." As far as the Vortex and looping...well, yes, it goes with looping if you like, but beyond looping it's an extremely interesting tool . In fact the LoOpDoctOrs would trade their hospital privilages before giving up their Vorti...but the one indisputable is that you can run any of the mono loopers into the Vortex and out comes that loop in stereo...YES! Best, the LoOpDoctOrs From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:32 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 20:01:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkL6c-0000Lo-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:01:50 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:58:20 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970704225819_-626570634@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Resent-Message-ID: <"Qa15vC.A.NL.Eibvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/653 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:01:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 271612ab1bcb100178cab278dd2123c2 In a message dated 7/5/97 12:26:42 AM, you wrote: <> How can any record store make it if this is the outcome? Price isn't everything. Service , imagination, and genuine care for the customer is the only thing that can distiguish a small, struggling shop from the megachains. If someone employs people to take care of you (ie: load your selections into a player, rewrap and restock the CD if you don't buy etc.) don't you think they deserve the sale? I'm not keen on Blockbuster. We have one here in Portland but I've never warmed up to it. I basically like to be left alone when I'm shopping for recordings. I don't want to have to feel any obligation if I'm not finding something interesting. I get to feeling sort of strange there if I'm asking to hear a bunch of CD's and none are doing it. Also, I find their selection very limited and mostly mainstream. They also are inclined to play crap real loud while your checking out a soft CD. It just doesn't work. There must be an alternative out there somewhere. Jim From ???@??? Fri Jul 04 23:31:34 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 4 21:18:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkMIu-000313-00; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:18:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions In-Reply-To: <970704225819_-626570634@emout09.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xRuoeC.A.7pC._pcvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/654 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:18:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 027c9e7e8a21694c6b4eadbec71c3611 Sorry in advance if this thread is inching away from 100% topicality. Still fairly interesting nonetheless, I think... On Fri, 4 Jul 1997 BlkSwan03@aol.com wrote: >> <> now probably know me as "the guy who's always listening to stuff and never >> buys it." Oh well -- not my fault that Best Buy has the stuff for about >> 30% cheape>> > > How can any record store make it if this is the outcome? Price isn't > everything. No, but when you're talking about an average price of $16.99 - $17.99 at a chain like Blockbuster as compared to $11.99 - $13.99 at Best Buy, Circuit City, or most indies, it can start to add up. > Service , > imagination, and genuine care for the customer is the only thing that can > distiguish a small, struggling shop from the megachains. I'd agree, though I'd hasten to add that Blockbuster isn't even romotely close to a small, struggling shop, so I'm disinclined to feel guilty about not buying something there. > If someone > employs people to take care of you (ie: load your selections into a player, > rewrap and restock the CD if you don't buy etc.) don't you think they deserve > the sale? Not in and of itself, no, because in the case of Blockbuster, I don't feel that the above service justifies a 25% to 30% increase in the cost, nor do I believe that the extra cost stems from any sort of rationale regarding extra services provided to customers. Keep in mind that it's not as if that extra four or five bucks is going into the personal pocket of the employee who restocks the discs, or that they collect an individual commission on each CD sold that they personally unwrap and/or restock. They pocket the same amount regardless of whether or not I purchase it there, so I don't feel guilty about doing any of the employees a specific (or non-specific) injustice. I definitely feel that the cost of CDs is unrealistically high in general. But so many of the music chains take it to a gross extreme: if you go into a Sam Goody, Wherehouse, or Barnes & Noble, the average cost of a disc is going to be $17.99 or higher. That's simply too much money! Especially when I can get the same exact disc elsewhere for significantly less cash. If a mega-chain like Best Buy or Circuit City can sell the stuff cheaper, I want a good reason why other mega-chains can't. You're absolutely right in saying that record stores need to provide consumers with a way of being able to hear things before they buy them. (How many other examples can you think of where a person is expected to buy something without trying it out first, which they cannot return if they don't like it?!) And if I were dealing with an indie shop that stocked a lot of releases I was interested in, which also offered Blockbuster-style (or better) listening stations, I would likely be more inclined to justify an extra expense (though not in the $16.99 - and - up range). As a matter of fact, I buy from indies at least as often as from a major chain. But in the example I mentioned, it's not as if I'm robbing an independent of a sale so that I can save a few bucks by selling out to a corporate giant -- I'm choosing one corporate giant over the other in the name of not getting charged an unreasonable amount of money. And as an aside, I've never ordered a disc from some place just to get a better price, nor do I frequent mega-chains for all my listening. If I'm looking for something on CMP, Alchemy, or DGM, for example, I'm not going to be going to Musicland. But to tell you the truth, a lot of the Best Buy's I've seen have a much deeper and more adventurous catalog than many indies I've been in, let alone a record chain. Their prices are cheaper than Blockbuster and their selection is better; if Blockbuster wants me to buy their discs, they'll have to expand their catalog and lower their prices. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 12:08:16 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 02:29:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkR9u-0004aU-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:29:38 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:59:34 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: CW3 Re: Another newbie question. Resent-Message-ID: <"0XP8lD.A.SME.jNhvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/656 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:29:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 5539f9fd83985c8232c0647d0d6652a5 The Negative Eye wrote: > >> Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or >>audio? In >> that case, is there a shareware verion of it? Mattias Ribbing > >Hello Matias and Looping people, >The software sequencer CakeWalk 3.x has the loop option. >You can also specify how many loops will it do and when they >will start rolling, and pitch shifting. >You can have up to 256 tracks looping (if you can!). >It does not handle audio, but it does with midi, and of course, >a wavetable card. >The actual version is 6 (but the loop option is over!). >You can still create them by copy and paste x times. >It does handle audio and realtime effects. But can it do any of that in real time? I don't know that I've seen anything on a pc or mac that could do serious real-time looping. Lots of software lets you set up loops if you are willing to sit there patiently pointing and clicking. Not a lot of room for spontaneity or improvisation, though. Especially if you want to create loops live in a performance. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 02:22:58 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 01:31:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkQFV-00035h-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:31:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199707050828.JAA27559@mail.bogo.co.uk> Reply-To: From: "andrew" To: Subject: Re: Vortex Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:30:10 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fkbjIB.A.lxC.BXgvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/655 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:31:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 91e3defc3dd8446aef4a8fbb23d00684 Brian, As mentioned, the Roland EV5 is a good expression pedal, but for some reason Roland charge a ridiculous amount of money for them ( here in the UK , about 75.00pounds ). I recently came across an Italian company, Promoel ( or Pro-Moel ? ) who make an exp pedal just like the Ev5, and they cost about 35.00. I bought one for my Vortex and it works as well as the EV5. There may be others, best place to check is keyboard/synth specialist dealers. Good luck Andrew ---------- > From: Squidlyguy@aol.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Vortex > Date: 05 July 1997 01:46 > > I've been thinking about buying a Vortex, but this particular one doesn't > have a foot controller. Can anyone tell me if there are any other > footcontrollers that I can use with it other than the standard one - I don't > know if it's midi, or just a footswitch. I wouldn't want to buy one if I > have to tweek with the knobs every time I want to change/morph between > effects. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Also, I'm a novice > looper, on the verge of getting a Digital pro, but I'd like to hear about the > satisfaction of other Vortex owners. I get the impression that, if used > creatively, this unit greatly helps transform and personalize your loops, and > even becomes a vital part of many looper's sound. I've always been amazed at > how David Torn has been able to transform many simple sounds into a huge > evolving soundscape, but am not sure how much of this spectaclar feat I can > attribute to a single device. > > Thanks. > > Brian From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 12:08:46 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 05:11:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkTgn-0007Zf-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 05:11:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:07:56 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970705080755_191869694@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"99ZLYC.A.S-G.Zljvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/657 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 05:11:45 -0700 X-UIDL: e297062d1882d8bca560a53a8097ad3b The LoOpDoctOrs wrote-"The Roland EV-5 pedal works very well with the Vortex in combination with the *^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."" So thats what those pedals are called. I was looking for another one one but didn't know what to ask the sales rep for :). (Actually I haven't had any trouble with either my Jman or Vortex *^&%&^$&^I pedals). - Paul From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 12:08:46 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 05:43:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkUBK-0000aw-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 05:43:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970705083955_-824578878@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"GF2nW.A.rb.gDkvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/658 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 05:43:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 35c20d3c6d2fe79e0bb9f6440e662384 <<*^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."">> Your Vortex will much more fun once you buy a 2nd one of these little 2-button lightweights...still avail. from Lex direct for about $30...now you can have Tap, A/B, Bypass, and Step all available at your toes, along with the indispensible Roland EV-5 CV pedal, of course, about $70 with shipping from AMS. There's simply never been a better FX bang-for-$$ deal than the Vortex, despite its storage flaws. True stereo, and that totally unique morphing..don't hesitate if you're a sound mangler. dpc From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 12:08:47 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 05:45:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkUDh-0000m7-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 05:45:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:42:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970705084235_-492197563@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"_KxXO.A.pk.1Fkvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/659 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 05:45:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 070fe0813364a76d9a880a64dc9fb794 <<- thought sandwich: - player and "listener" are SAME person. - only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) - don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . . >> Hearing too much of the music you DON'T want to hear leads to....perhaps not boredom exactly...irritration? ...are these the same thing?....and the decision to begin purchasing musical equipment (player and "listener" SAME person)...feedback loop...delightful narcissism....greater clarity about music you want to hear...increased impatience with music you don't...gradual downfall of the recorded music industry...growing refusal to leave private studio, except under duress...increased interest in reactions of other people to your mad creations....understanding that listening as the creator is totally different than listening as an audience...player and listener NOT the same person...feedback loop, or rising spiral?...branching thought path: listening as a creator to the creations of your peers is totally different still: is it possible to suspend judgement? Is measuring the "boredom quotient" a reliable basis for understanding a listening experience? But aren't the elements that lead to boredom arranged quite differently in each of these categories: your own "always-in-progress" creations; the musical creations of friends, however skillful or loved; the rest of the music in the air? ...back to the headphone feedback loop! dpc From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 12:08:48 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 06:17:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkUiL-0001cm-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 06:17:25 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:13:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"g4hXsD.A.3XB.nikvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/660 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 06:17:25 -0700 X-UIDL: f926607680b90869a7472d05ccd90b0a Jerry Coker: > "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal >predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, >or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying >the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell >(Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the >time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too >unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized." I really liked that one! Paul Mindscape Explorer feeding our thoughts: > Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention >drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to >continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, >and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to >continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how >tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is >not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions >right, and also stops listening. That connects to my search for the "achetype" melodies. There might be a way to be predictable without repeating anything! I was highly amazed when I once listened to a instrument that Marco Antonio Guimaraes developped: Its a hamer, hanging on a flexible axis of a motor, balancing and "playing" tuned tubes, hanging around it - mechanic, but unpredictable - you first think, but then, suddenly, sequences of notes happen you can follow, as if you had predicted, strange... From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:39:26 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 12:28:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkaVD-00052U-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:28:15 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 15:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970705152355_-1695836245@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re Unsetlling Ambiences Clarification Resent-Message-ID: <"b6ghdC.A.rgE.H-pvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/661 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:28:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 1288c11d842bf866aae92246e9f90838 Mathias Grobb wrote in response to a quote from Jerry Coker's "Improvising Jazz" that I (Paul) submitted to the list: < "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal >predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, >or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying >the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell >(Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the >time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too >unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized." I really liked that one! Paul Mindscape Explorer feeding our thoughts: > Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention >drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to >continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, >and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to >continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how >tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is >not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions >right, and also stops listening.>> Just to clarify--1) The quote is actually by Richmond Browne, jazz pianist and instructor of theory at Yale University. And more importantly, so that I don't get accused of plagerism :-), 2) The second paragraph, that Mathias mistakenly attributes to me "feeding our thoughts", was still part of Mr. Browne's quote and, as it appears in Mr. Coker's book and in my original post, was a second paragraph. In my original post this second paragraph may have appeared to be my contribution to Mr. Brown's 1st paragraph which it was not. Hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Just giving credit where credit is due. Mathias also wrote: <> I've always liked the sound of the chimes made by the "Woodstock Instrument Co." These come in sets that are tuned to various pentatonic scales (they even have one tuned to a "blues" scale) and have a beautifull full ringing sound rich in harmonics. Check 'em out. -- Paul From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:39:26 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 12:29:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkaVt-00054o-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:28:57 -0700 X-From_:MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jul 05 12:28:52 1997 Received: from zeus.maxtor.com [134.6.32.3] by ferret with smtp (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkaVl-00050p-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:28:49 -0700 Received: from Longmont64.Maxtor.COM (longmont64.mlm.maxtor.com [134.6.79.210]) by zeus.maxtor.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25128 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:27:24 -0600 Received: by Longmont64.Maxtor.COM; Sat, 5 Jul 97 13:27:11 MDT Old-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 97 13:28:38 MDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: Subject: Undeliverable Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain X-Diagnostic: Mail to matthias@bahianet.com.br bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:28:57 -0700 X-UIDL: fa9219acab06354e050029acce007c3d To: Cc: Subject: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #105 Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3043: Bret Moreland@Eng67@MCO VNM3043 -- MAILBOX IS FULL The message cannot be delivered because the recipient's mailbox contains the maximum number of messages, as set by the system administrator. The recipient must delete some messages before any other messages can be delivered. The maximum message limit for a user's mailbox is 10,000. The default message limit is 1000 messages. Administrators can set message limits using the Mailbox Settings function available in the Manage User menu (MUSER). When a user's mailbox reaches the limit, the user must delete some of the messages before the mailbox can accept any more incoming messages. ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 105 Today's Topics: Re: Music Descriptions [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] humbling healthy mistakes [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] re: Unsettling Ambiences [ fred marshall ] Re: Vortex [ Fmplautus@aol.com ] Re: Music Descriptions [ BlkSwan03@aol.com ] Re: Music Descriptions [ The Man Himself ] Re: CW3 Re: Another newbie question. [ Kim Flint ] Re Vortex [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ] Re: Re Vortex [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ] Re: Unsettling Ambiences [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ] Re: Unsettling Ambiences [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:41:12 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In a message dated 7/1/97 11:15:17 PM, you wrote: > ><voices in thirds singing about suffering from love and heartattachments, I >came up with a tape of mine and they put it in. But at the the first >somewhat fatter, harmonically still simple loop, the discussion started and >a guy said that he is tortured by such music. I asked where it hurts and he >pointed at his forehead. >Why? >Why did he not suffer with the suffering singers? >>> > >Matthias, this is such a great story! I'm amazed that you can pop a tape in >on a public bus at all. I can't even imagine this in the US. The >Suffering Singers. That's a good name for a band. "I suffered for my >music, now it's your turn." ( Frank Zappa) good In the discussion it was mentioned, that its actually forbidden, but who cares... It was not in the city, rather a crazy region anyway... Matthias ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:42:12 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: humbling healthy mistakes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Stephen: >> Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of >> working with mistakes", paraphrased. In this regard it applies well >here. Matt: >Well said! Lately I've been working on the audio for a CD-ROM and I'm >noticing that my best ideas come about from mistakes -- at least when >programming drum tracks. A humbling realization indeed......unless you >decide to embrace the concept and run with it. As a result of doing just >that, my songwriting partner and I have been priding ourselves in our >ability to "compose by haphazard." healthy humbling... if we accept the pleasure of music as coming from its capability to mirror or represent some higher power or structure - or however I could put that more open even - its not so amazing that we need the interference of this power or structure to give sense or essence to complete our effort of creating. As long as our mind or the computer hold on what he thinks is correct, there is no way to grow. If we do not temporarily disauthorize or even disable our mind from its desire to completely direct our creation, the higher power or structure might help us by disturbing our mind, introducing errors, to show us the way. It might be completely different, though... Matthias ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 08:55:25 -0800 From: fred marshall To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences Message-ID: <33BD2AE7.2953@fredmarshall.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - someone said: "Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while. Food for thought? " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - thought sandwich: - player and "listener" are SAME person. - only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) - don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . . - fred marshall ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 12:11:24 -0400 From: verner@infinitesound.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Music Descriptions Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970704121124.0069dbb0@infinitesound.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Look, the bottom line is this: It doesn't matter what label or category you choose for music - there is (and always will be) good and bad stuff! It doesn't matter if it is New Age, Classical, Rock, Techno, Ambient, etc. etc. Some of it will be good and some bad. So it makes no sense to categorically generalize about any genre or style of music. Unfortunately, we as a society "have" to put things into categories to feel comfortable. J. Arif Verner Infinite Sound Studio http://www.infinitesound.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:24:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal > predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, > or something different...if the player never repeats anything, no matter how > tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is > not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions > right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. > Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while." .....excellent post. I remember how my drives used to be a) give the audience something they've never experienced before which means, in most cases...b) do only what you're inspired to do, that if only one person can relate and is somehow changed, that's successful. After so many years of hearing "that's, uh, interesting, thanks, bye", I began to pay more attention to this business of audience experience and expectations. I first started including a few flavors of styles other than primal inspirations (Cage mixed with equatorial rhythms and melodies). For example, using funkier basslines with bluesy "events" let me keep my textures and compositional techniques while enhancing the predictability ratio. Then, when I finally acknowledged we live in visual society, I found the use of original video or silent movies or even an edited weird hodgepodge opened some of those soundtrack doors in their heads that I could walk music through as well. We've come a long ways since the blackbox electronic music concerts, for those who go back that far. If you're famous enough to set the audience afire with your very presence, that's one thing, but if you find yourself beaten down by quizical indifference, start collaborating with a few sword swallowers, fire eaters and flying magicians. Or just show them on TV. @) But, seriously, you don't have to sellout to find a more "interesting" package to help sell your presentation. spore kim ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:43:56 -0300 From: "The Negative Eye" To: Mattias Ribbing , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: CW3 Re: Another newbie question. Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 3 Jul 97 at 18:51, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.co wrote: > Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio? In > that case, is there a shareware verion of it? Mattias Ribbing Hello Matias and Looping people, The software sequencer CakeWalk 3.x has the loop option. You can also specify how many loops will it do and when they will start rolling, and pitch shifting. You can have up to 256 tracks looping (if you can!). It does not handle audio, but it does with midi, and of course, a wavetable card. The actual version is 6 (but the loop option is over!). You can still create them by copy and paste x times. It does handle audio and realtime effects. Here there may be demos to try: www.cakewalk.com ftp.cakewalk.com Hope It Helps Juan Manuel Aguirre aka ->thE negativE eyE -->negativE visioN --->negativE imagE ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:43:56 -0300 From: "The Negative Eye" To: future perfect , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Deaf People (Re: What do they hear???) Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:50:05 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 4 Jul 1997 BlkSwan03@aol.com wrote: > There are a few record stores that allow listening but it's > always a pain. It's too bad really. So little imagination goes into this. > Some enterprising character out there should start a string of shops that > take a more interesting approach to the customer interface. Maybe some > weird,subdued lighting , for a bit of atmosphere, and a nice spot to sit and > get comfortable. I know I'd be there exploring, and I'd buy a lot of stuff. I've actually found Blockbuster Music to be invaluable in this regard -- they'll let you listen to just about any CD in the store (with the exception of things like Disc 5 of that 20-disc, factory-sealed boxed set, for example) at a decent listening station, with no obligation to buy. The problem is that just about all the employees at the local branch here now probably know me as "the guy who's always listening to stuff and never buys it." Oh well -- not my fault that Best Buy has the stuff for about 30% cheaper! --Andre ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:46:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Squidlyguy@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex Message-ID: <970704204627_1178746323@emout03.mail.aol.com> I've been thinking about buying a Vortex, but this particular one doesn't have a foot controller. Can anyone tell me if there are any other footcontrollers that I can use with it other than the standard one - I don't know if it's midi, or just a footswitch. I wouldn't want to buy one if I have to tweek with the knobs every time I want to change/morph between effects. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Also, I'm a novice looper, on the verge of getting a Digital pro, but I'd like to hear about the satisfaction of other Vortex owners. I get the impression that, if used creatively, this unit greatly helps transform and personalize your loops, and even becomes a vital part of many looper's sound. I've always been amazed at how David Torn has been able to transform many simple sounds into a huge evolving soundscape, but am not sure how much of this spectaclar feat I can attribute to a single device. Thanks. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 20:56:39 -0400 From: future perfect To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences Message-ID: <33BD9BC7.70A53AF6@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, everyone- I'm Misha, the other member of 'Future Perfect' (ambient, prog-ish, renaissan-cy Florida duo), and I've been reading the recent posts of musical descriptions, audience reactions, 'our art in the world' etc., and dug up this quote from a favorite author, which I thought may spark further discussion: "Bringing back the gift to integrate it into a rational life is very difficult. It is even more difficult than going down into the underworld. What you have to bring back is something that the world lacks- which is why you went there to get it- and lacking it, the world does not know that it needs it. And, so on the return, when you come with your boon for the world and there is no reception, what are you going to do? There are three possible reactions. One answer is to say, 'To hell with them, I'm going back to the woods'. You buy yourself and dog and a pipe and you let the weeds grow in the gate. You have come back to the world with your gift, and people look at you with glassy eyes, call you a 'kook', and so you retreat. This is refusal of the return. The second way is to say, 'What do they want?' You have a skill. You can give them what they want, the commercial way. Then you have created a whole pitch for your expressivity, and what you had before gets lost. You have a public career, and you have renounced the jewel. The third possibility is to try to find some aspect of the domain into which you have come that can receive a little portion of what you have to give. You try to find a means to deliver what you have found as the life boon in terms and in proportions that are proper to the world's ability to receive. It requires a good deal of compassion and patience. Look for cracks in the wall and give only to those who are ready for your jewel." ~ Joseph Campbell Misha -- ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:19:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Fmplautus@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Message-ID: <970704221923_-1058484954@emout19.mail.aol.com> Dear Brian: The Roland EV-5 pedal works very well with the Vortex in combination with the *^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals." As far as the Vortex and looping...well, yes, it goes with looping if you like, but beyond looping it's an extremely interesting tool . In fact the LoOpDoctOrs would trade their hospital privilages before giving up their Vorti...but the one indisputable is that you can run any of the mono loopers into the Vortex and out comes that loop in stereo...YES! Best, the LoOpDoctOrs ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:58:20 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Message-ID: <970704225819_-626570634@emout09.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 7/5/97 12:26:42 AM, you wrote: <> How can any record store make it if this is the outcome? Price isn't everything. Service , imagination, and genuine care for the customer is the only thing that can distiguish a small, struggling shop from the megachains. If someone employs people to take care of you (ie: load your selections into a player, rewrap and restock the CD if you don't buy etc.) don't you think they deserve the sale? I'm not keen on Blockbuster. We have one here in Portland but I've never warmed up to it. I basically like to be left alone when I'm shopping for recordings. I don't want to have to feel any obligation if I'm not finding something interesting. I get to feeling sort of strange there if I'm asking to hear a bunch of CD's and none are doing it. Also, I find their selection very limited and mostly mainstream. They also are inclined to play crap real loud while your checking out a soft CD. It just doesn't work. There must be an alternative out there somewhere. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music Descriptions Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry in advance if this thread is inching away from 100% topicality. Still fairly interesting nonetheless, I think... On Fri, 4 Jul 1997 BlkSwan03@aol.com wrote: >> <> now probably know me as "the guy who's always listening to stuff and never >> buys it." Oh well -- not my fault that Best Buy has the stuff for about >> 30% cheape>> > > How can any record store make it if this is the outcome? Price isn't > everything. No, but when you're talking about an average price of $16.99 - $17.99 at a chain like Blockbuster as compared to $11.99 - $13.99 at Best Buy, Circuit City, or most indies, it can start to add up. > Service , > imagination, and genuine care for the customer is the only thing that can > distiguish a small, struggling shop from the megachains. I'd agree, though I'd hasten to add that Blockbuster isn't even romotely close to a small, struggling shop, so I'm disinclined to feel guilty about not buying something there. > If someone > employs people to take care of you (ie: load your selections into a player, > rewrap and restock the CD if you don't buy etc.) don't you think they deserve > the sale? Not in and of itself, no, because in the case of Blockbuster, I don't feel that the above service justifies a 25% to 30% increase in the cost, nor do I believe that the extra cost stems from any sort of rationale regarding extra services provided to customers. Keep in mind that it's not as if that extra four or five bucks is going into the personal pocket of the employee who restocks the discs, or that they collect an individual commission on each CD sold that they personally unwrap and/or restock. They pocket the same amount regardless of whether or not I purchase it there, so I don't feel guilty about doing any of the employees a specific (or non-specific) injustice. I definitely feel that the cost of CDs is unrealistically high in general. But so many of the music chains take it to a gross extreme: if you go into a Sam Goody, Wherehouse, or Barnes & Noble, the average cost of a disc is going to be $17.99 or higher. That's simply too much money! Especially when I can get the same exact disc elsewhere for significantly less cash. If a mega-chain like Best Buy or Circuit City can sell the stuff cheaper, I want a good reason why other mega-chains can't. You're absolutely right in saying that record stores need to provide consumers with a way of being able to hear things before they buy them. (How many other examples can you think of where a person is expected to buy something without trying it out first, which they cannot return if they don't like it?!) And if I were dealing with an indie shop that stocked a lot of releases I was interested in, which also offered Blockbuster-style (or better) listening stations, I would likely be more inclined to justify an extra expense (though not in the $16.99 - and - up range). As a matter of fact, I buy from indies at least as often as from a major chain. But in the example I mentioned, it's not as if I'm robbing an independent of a sale so that I can save a few bucks by selling out to a corporate giant -- I'm choosing one corporate giant over the other in the name of not getting charged an unreasonable amount of money. And as an aside, I've never ordered a disc from some place just to get a better price, nor do I frequent mega-chains for all my listening. If I'm looking for something on CMP, Alchemy, or DGM, for example, I'm not going to be going to Musicland. But to tell you the truth, a lot of the Best Buy's I've seen have a much deeper and more adventurous catalog than many indies I've been in, let alone a record chain. Their prices are cheaper than Blockbuster and their selection is better; if Blockbuster wants me to buy their discs, they'll have to expand their catalog and lower their prices. --Andre ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:30:10 +0100 From: "andrew" To: Subject: Re: Vortex Message-Id: <199707050828.JAA27559@mail.bogo.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian, As mentioned, the Roland EV5 is a good expression pedal, but for some reason Roland charge a ridiculous amount of money for them ( here in the UK , about 75.00pounds ). I recently came across an Italian company, Promoel ( or Pro-Moel ? ) who make an exp pedal just like the Ev5, and they cost about 35.00. I bought one for my Vortex and it works as well as the EV5. There may be others, best place to check is keyboard/synth specialist dealers. Good luck Andrew ---------- > From: Squidlyguy@aol.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Vortex > Date: 05 July 1997 01:46 > > I've been thinking about buying a Vortex, but this particular one doesn't > have a foot controller. Can anyone tell me if there are any other > footcontrollers that I can use with it other than the standard one - I don't > know if it's midi, or just a footswitch. I wouldn't want to buy one if I > have to tweek with the knobs every time I want to change/morph between > effects. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Also, I'm a novice > looper, on the verge of getting a Digital pro, but I'd like to hear about the > satisfaction of other Vortex owners. I get the impression that, if used > creatively, this unit greatly helps transform and personalize your loops, and > even becomes a vital part of many looper's sound. I've always been amazed at > how David Torn has been able to transform many simple sounds into a huge > evolving soundscape, but am not sure how much of this spectaclar feat I can > attribute to a single device. > > Thanks. > > Brian ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:59:34 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CW3 Re: Another newbie question. Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Negative Eye wrote: > >> Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or >>audio? In >> that case, is there a shareware verion of it? Mattias Ribbing > >Hello Matias and Looping people, >The software sequencer CakeWalk 3.x has the loop option. >You can also specify how many loops will it do and when they >will start rolling, and pitch shifting. >You can have up to 256 tracks looping (if you can!). >It does not handle audio, but it does with midi, and of course, >a wavetable card. >The actual version is 6 (but the loop option is over!). >You can still create them by copy and paste x times. >It does handle audio and realtime effects. But can it do any of that in real time? I don't know that I've seen anything on a pc or mac that could do serious real-time looping. Lots of software lets you set up loops if you are willing to sit there patiently pointing and clicking. Not a lot of room for spontaneity or improvisation, though. Especially if you want to create loops live in a performance. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:07:56 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re Vortex Message-ID: <970705080755_191869694@emout05.mail.aol.com> The LoOpDoctOrs wrote-"The Roland EV-5 pedal works very well with the Vortex in combination with the *^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."" So thats what those pedals are called. I was looking for another one one but didn't know what to ask the sales rep for :). (Actually I haven't had any trouble with either my Jman or Vortex *^&%&^$&^I pedals). - Paul ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re Vortex Message-ID: <970705083955_-824578878@emout07.mail.aol.com> <<*^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."">> Your Vortex will much more fun once you buy a 2nd one of these little 2-button lightweights...still avail. from Lex direct for about $30...now you can have Tap, A/B, Bypass, and Step all available at your toes, along with the indispensible Roland EV-5 CV pedal, of course, about $70 with shipping from AMS. There's simply never been a better FX bang-for-$$ deal than the Vortex, despite its storage flaws. True stereo, and that totally unique morphing..don't hesitate if you're a sound mangler. dpc ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:42:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences Message-ID: <970705084235_-492197563@emout05.mail.aol.com> <<- thought sandwich: - player and "listener" are SAME person. - only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) - don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . . >> Hearing too much of the music you DON'T want to hear leads to....perhaps not boredom exactly...irritration? ...are these the same thing?....and the decision to begin purchasing musical equipment (player and "listener" SAME person)...feedback loop...delightful narcissism....greater clarity about music you want to hear...increased impatience with music you don't...gradual downfall of the recorded music industry...growing refusal to leave private studio, except under duress...increased interest in reactions of other people to your mad creations....understanding that listening as the creator is totally different than listening as an audience...player and listener NOT the same person...feedback loop, or rising spiral?...branching thought path: listening as a creator to the creations of your peers is totally different still: is it possible to suspend judgement? Is measuring the "boredom quotient" a reliable basis for understanding a listening experience? But aren't the elements that lead to boredom arranged quite differently in each of these categories: your own "always-in-progress" creations; the musical creations of friends, however skillful or loved; the rest of the music in the air? ...back to the headphone feedback loop! dpc ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:13:49 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jerry Coker: > "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal >predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, >or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying >the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell >(Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the >time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too >unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized." I really liked that one! Paul Mindscape Explorer feeding our thoughts: > Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention >drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to >continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, >and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to >continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how >tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is >not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions >right, and also stops listening. That connects to my search for the "achetype" melodies. There might be a way to be predictable without repeating anything! I was highly amazed when I once listened to a instrument that Marco Antonio Guimaraes developped: Its a hamer, hanging on a flexible axis of a motor, balancing and "playing" tuned tubes, hanging around it - mechanic, but unpredictable - you first think, but then, suddenly, sequences of notes happen you can follow, as if you had predicted, strange... ------------------------------------------------------------ From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:39:39 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 17:48:49 1997 Received: from ul1.satlink.com [200.0.224.2] (root) by ferret with esmtp (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkfVD-0000WQ-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:48:36 -0700 Received: from un1.satlink.com (root@un1.satlink.com [200.9.212.3]) by ul1.satlink.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA18479; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:50:21 -0300 (GMT-3) Received: from server1.UUCP (Ucyberia@localhost) by un1.satlink.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id VAA07195; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:39:49 -0300 Received: from ppp1.cyberia.net.ar ([192.168.0.11]) by server1.cyberia.net.ar with smtp id m0wknFv-000QDbC ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 06:05:19 -0300 (ART) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Negative Eye" To: Kim Flint , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:23:55 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re2: CW3 Re: Another newbie question. Reply-to: juma@cyberia.net.ar Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) X-UIDL: e4dd30e42644ea48ae663153cf173526 Hello dear Loopers, On 4 Jul 97 at 23:59, Kim Flint wrote: > >It does handle audio and realtime effects. > But can it do any of that in real time? About audio processing, it can, but you need a "good" machine (Pentium200) to make it work nicely.. > I don't know that I've seen anything on a pc or mac that could do serious > real-time looping. Lots of software lets you set up loops if you are willing > to sit there patiently pointing and clicking. Not a lot of room for spontaneity > or improvisation, though. > Especially if you want to create loops live in a performance. > kim About MIDI looping: You can work with loops if you already have them set. Then you can mix and turn them on and off, etc with a MIXER view wich is very versatile. As you said, it's still a matter of pointing and clicking (keyboard's faster), but you can still can have a good time. About spontaneity and improvisation, it depends on how much you have set up to make it loop. The "spontaneity" problem resides in that you cannot add new material to the one set if it's playing. Anyway, I think it as one more usefull artistic TOOL. Thanks, Good Bye, Good Luck, Juan Manuel Aguirre aka ->thE negativE eyE -->negativE visioN --->negativE imagE From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:39:40 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 17:52:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkfYk-0000oK-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:52:14 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Negative Eye" To: Kim Flint , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:23:55 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re2: CW3 Re: Another newbie question. Reply-to: juma@cyberia.net.ar Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"aHlsUC.A.kg.utuvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/663 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:52:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 5770cbbceb5701961e1bc7d421947657 Hello dear Loopers, On 4 Jul 97 at 23:59, Kim Flint wrote: > >It does handle audio and realtime effects. > But can it do any of that in real time? About audio processing, it can, but you need a "good" machine (Pentium200) to make it work nicely.. > I don't know that I've seen anything on a pc or mac that could do serious > real-time looping. Lots of software lets you set up loops if you are willing > to sit there patiently pointing and clicking. Not a lot of room for spontaneity > or improvisation, though. > Especially if you want to create loops live in a performance. > kim About MIDI looping: You can work with loops if you already have them set. Then you can mix and turn them on and off, etc with a MIXER view wich is very versatile. As you said, it's still a matter of pointing and clicking (keyboard's faster), but you can still can have a good time. About spontaneity and improvisation, it depends on how much you have set up to make it loop. The "spontaneity" problem resides in that you cannot add new material to the one set if it's playing. Anyway, I think it as one more usefull artistic TOOL. Thanks, Good Bye, Good Luck, Juan Manuel Aguirre aka ->thE negativE eyE -->negativE visioN --->negativE imagE From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:39:39 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 17:50:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkfWy-0000gU-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:50:24 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:45:29 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970705204527_-426972478@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Digitech Mc2 Pedal Resent-Message-ID: <"VGA6hC.A.VX.jruvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/662 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:50:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 8be96f37327a71ef1b613d8de945b49b Does anyone out there have any experience with this pedal? It comes across as a simple, easy to use pedal for midi continuous control messages. I bought one to control the morphing on my Morpheus synth. Problem is that it alway sticks and then everything has to be shut off and switched back on. Major pain. I've tried it on my JV 1080 synth, but it sticks there too. Not as much, but bad enough. Digitech claims to have no feedback of a problem like this with anyone else. The Canadian company that manufactures the pedal for them also claims the same lack of complaints. Odd isn't it? Everything is just fine all around then. Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone out there has had similar problems or knows of a workaround. Jim From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:39:42 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 18:41:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkgKR-0002Yt-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:41:31 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:38:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Gabestern@aol.com Message-ID: <970705213758_-1326803631@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping devices / Akai Remix16 Resent-Message-ID: <"s1HxF.A.sQC.xcvvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/664 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:41:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 5a62099195c0f0c4f976e2f67c555d3a In a message dated 97-07-02 01:52:00 EDT, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com writes: << I'd like to hear more about the Akai Remix16 from someone who's actually got one. The demo at NAMM was pretty interesting. I know one person on the list actually owns one. Gabriel? Care to give us a review? >> Well, yes, I'd be glad to give you a review. I'm too busy right now, but maybe tonight or tomorrow. It would actually give me a chance to gather my thoughts on the Remix16 anyway. From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:39:43 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 18:59:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkgc5-0003E1-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:59:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:56:00 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970705215559_1826361308@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: "The Western Lands" Resent-Message-ID: <"TIABLC.A.e4C.0tvvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/665 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:59:45 -0700 X-UIDL: bba39a7e6add4a34f40ebf3a8570fbca Last week I got a new Stickr CD release that I would highly recommend. It's Arthur Durkee's solo release "The Western Lands". Jazz/lines, rythmic loops, feedback loops, backward loops, ripping improvs., atmospherics, interesting use of voice all coming together to make for a highly enjoyable listening experience. Not only that but it's a cool jade green color :-). --Paul (Mindscape Explorer) P.S.-Not related to Art Durkee or affiliated w/Black Dragon Productions. Just an appreciator of fine artists everywhere -contact Art at. From ???@??? Sat Jul 05 21:51:45 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 5 21:49:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wkjG1-0000jj-00; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:49:09 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 00:36:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Trueman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Another newbie question. In-Reply-To: <199707031651.SAA26728@mailbox.swip.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XApI4.A.Re.hLyvz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/666 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:49:09 -0700 X-UIDL: f9396ac841fcd154c36a802ab01e06dc I use a program called LiSa (http://www.xs4all.nl/~steim/) for audio looping and sampling. It's not shareware but there is a demo. I think it's wonderful and I'm beginning to use it in live performance situations. dan ---------------- "we need new instruments very badly..." Edgar Varese ---------------- On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Mattias Ribbing wrote: > Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio? > In that case, is there a shareware verion of it? > > Mattias Ribbing > > From ???@??? Sun Jul 06 13:42:47 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 6 13:42:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wky8Z-0002VM-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:42:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 16:31:37 +0000 From: "Robert S. Carter" Subject: Re: Re Vortex To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu Message-id: <33BFC869.3BE5@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <970705083955_-824578878@emout07.mail.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"qiNFOC.A.P8B.qDAwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/667 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:42:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 2042d9eb423e787eabc32c569c188a29 Parts Express 1-800-338-0531 sells a double footswitch which from the picture in the catalog looks exactly like the lexicon thing. It's $19.80. BOB. Dpcoffin@aol.com wrote: > > <<*^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."">> > > Your Vortex will much more fun once you buy a 2nd one of these little > 2-button lightweights...still avail. from Lex direct for about $30...now you > can have Tap, A/B, Bypass, and Step all available at your toes, along with > the indispensible Roland EV-5 CV pedal, of course, about $70 with shipping > from AMS. There's simply never been a better FX bang-for-$$ deal than the > Vortex, despite its storage flaws. True stereo, and that totally unique > morphing..don't hesitate if you're a sound mangler. > dpc From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 01:12:33 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 6 16:41:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wl0vV-00024N-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 16:41:09 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707022112.XAA13193@mailbox.swip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 16:08:11 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Some questions for an intro page Resent-Message-ID: <"-ylLqC.A.asB.GwCwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/668 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 16:41:09 -0700 X-UIDL: cf5688834d6a257c81bc5b73944e8c5f At 11:12 PM +0200 7/2/97, Mattias Ribbing wrote: >Hello, > >Here are a couple of questions. I can send more as I come up with any. Other >newbies: Please write some of your own. Some of these might sound stupid for >someone who has been doing this for a long time, but I think that these are >the kinds of questions that people will ask that have just become interested >in looping. If these questions are to be put on a web page, please correct >any spelling or grammatical mistakes, since I«m not a native english speaker. If you are new to looping, there are some good articles on our web site to learn from. David Torn's "In The Loop" is a great introduction: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/musings/David_Torn/Torn_Loop_Article.html Also, if you are just starting to experiment with looping, Matthias Grob's "Playing Hints" section from the old Paradis LoopDelay manual is on the web and offers some great advice. Obviously, some of it is focused on use of the LoopDelay and it's successor, the Oberheim Echoplex, but there are many good tips for anyone: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/Plhints.html > >How many looping tracks can you add to one loop? This is really dependant on the looping device. Most dedicated loopers have some kind "overdub" capability that allows you to add more audio material to the loop. The Oberheim Echoplex, Lexicon JamMan, and Boomerang Phrase Sampler all have this ability. Usually you can add as much material as you like, "infinite overdubbing." In some cases the older material tends to decay a little as new material is added. The new material is mixed in with the old and cannot be controlled independently. Many simple phrase sampler devices do not have this overdubbing capability. Once you have captured something in the loop, you can't add more to it. The Yamaha SU-10 and Roland MS1 are examples, as are the simple loopers found on many dj consoles. Some of these devices do offer polyphony, where the different phrases can be triggered by a sequencer and played together. I don't believe there are any loopers available that allow for true multi-track loops, where you have independent control over multiple loops playing at once. The closest to that is the Oberheim Echoplex, which has sync capabilities that allow multiple units to operate together as one. Obviously that means you need to buy several echoplexes.... >Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play? Certainly not! But that is a common misconception. Pretty much any music that employs repetition works well for looping, which is pretty much most kinds of music! Some forms where looping is prominent: Ambient, as you noted. hip-hop dub dj oriented dance and collage music "electronica" - techno, ambient-techno, house, drum n' bass, trip-hop, etc. industrial experimental/avant garde acoustic soloists / folk Also, looping is showing up in various conventional styles, pop, R&B, jazz, rock, etc. >Can a looping device be used as an ordinary digital delay and reverb? Many dedicated loopers are digital delays at heart. And many ordinary digital delays can serve for looping. The Echoplex, JamMan, and TC Electronics 2290 all cross that boundary easily. Reverb is not really related to looping, but there are devices capable of looping that can also do reverb effects. The Eventide harmonizers and the Lexicon MXP-1 are capable of this. The Lexicon Vortex is another device which has other effects in addition to looping. As you might expect, the looping capability on multifunction devices is usuually fairly minimal. > >When you finnish a looped piece of music, are there any other ways to end it >than just stopping it? Anyone from Finland care to answer that? (sorry, I couldn't resist...:-) Again, it depends on the device. Many loopers offer the traditional sort of feedback control that you would find on a typical delay. So you could end it by letting it slowly die away. Usually you can add new things to the loop as it is fading, so the loop can evolve in a new direction. You could also manipulate the sound of the loop with whatever tools are offered to alter it into some kind of "finished" state. So yes, there are many things you can do other than just stopping. It's up to your creative impulse. Also, in the process of creating the loop, there is often the possibility to immediately begin altering the loop after you create it. For instance, you may have the overdubbing function come on immediately after you finish recording the loop, so that you immediately begin adding new material while your playing continues uninterrupted. Or you may do something like end the record by immediately putting the loop into reverse. > >What«s the main difference between the looping devices on the market other >than the memory? That's a big question. There is a lot of information on the Looper's Delight web site about different loop devices. Start here: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/tools.html Memory is only an issue if you don't have enough to do what you want. Many multi-effect devices that include looping are limited in this way. Memory is cheap these days, so it's increasinly less significant an issue. You should really be considering what you might want to do with loops and whether a device offers those functions. Some things you may be looking for are overdubbing capability, feedback control, style of control interface, midi sync, midi control, multiple loops, pitch variability, sampler-like triggering functions, reversing, insert, replace, undo, computer interfaces, effects for the loop, stereo, etc... You should also consider if a device has functions you don't need now but can grow into later. >How much in general do you have to pay for a good looping device that you >wont outgrow too quickly? Depends on what you want to do and what part of the world you are in. A delay pedal with loop ability might be less than US$100. A used digitech Time Machine or similar delay might be well under $200. JamMans and Vortices might be fairly cheap used ($200), if you can find one. Boomerangs are in the $300-$500 range, depending on memory. Echoplexes are in the $550 - $800 range. Lexicon and TC multieffects are over $1000. Eventides are well over that. I'm not sure what price some of the more dj oriented devices, like the Akai remix are going for. >Do looping devices work together with midi? Echoplex, JamMan, and probably the Remix16 use midi. All three offer midi sync and midi control to various degrees. The plex and remix have sampler type triggering functions. The plex has sample dump, which everyone seems to want but never actually uses. (the remix may have that too) The phrase samplers from yamaha and roland probably have midi functionality as well. The multieffect devices certainly have midi functionality, but I'm not sure how much is loop specific. I hope this is a good start for you. Anyone else out there, please feel free to add your own comments! It would be great to turn this thread into a faq for the web site. Also, any other newcomers with questions, please add them! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 07 01:27:17 1997 >From kflint Mon Oct 6 15:45:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0xILuX-00004c-00; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:45:57 -0700 Message-ID: <33C02A07.E33FAA7D@vtx.ch> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 00:28:13 +0100 From: "nicomonguzzi" Reply-To: nicomonguzzi@vtx.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: jamman upgrade X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"kUkmbD.A.njG.KhWO0"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/730 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:45:57 -0700 X-UIDL: e7bfc705230cb0d6f89093e4d8486221 ciao a tutti, hello everybody, i just discovered the looper's delight and · nice work folks i'm a drummer/percussionist and play with a guitarist, we use two jamman synchronised, after a few problems we finally found the way. any news about the upgrade? it will be available in europe (switzerland)? sorry for my english bye nicos :-) From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 01:12:37 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 6 21:13:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wl5AY-0004yQ-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:12:58 -0700 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: loonness monster Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:03:49 GMT Message-Id: <970706220006212@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"U7BRAB.A.abE.LwGwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/670 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:12:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 04e5b693ae05a3fc4fb4acc01ea8c00c Howdy Folks, The recent threads of "music description" and "what do they hear?" ,along with the associated responses, have prompted me to thunk a thawt or two about my own reationship with looping......not that I can manage a very objective position in the process..... but here goes. I started looping publicly as I recall in 1979 in a duo with me on a Wurlitzer Electric Piano and electric 6-string and my partner on electric guitar and fretless bass(thru an analog Echoplex), routed through 2 half track reel to reels at 7 1/2 IPS (positioned at varying distances apart with the microphone-stand/capstan technique) and looping the signal back thru my Space Echo. I wonder why I ever thought that I should perform this stuff live in public and quite honestly 18 years later, having played parties, talent shows,record stores, art gallerys,coffeehouses,chiropractors offices, open mike nights, college lunch rooms,store openings, and some gigs I've probably forgotten,..I still wonder. Not that I could ever stop looping, privately that is...but public performances of ambient works particularly, often point out the inherent hazards of being the purveyour of a style that if done well, is per Eno, "as ignorabe as it is listenable". The more rhythmic nuances brought into play, the more readily received the work is as a rule. Really subtle stuff is for the most part not capable of being discerned in live performance situations, even if you ban the blended drink noise, a la Fripp. Marrying your sound to another media helps some people to relate to the music, regardless of how random the relationship may be in actual design. The soundtrack "bin label" is viable since that's where the average person has encountered music of this style and dynamic. The movie is also the last place they shut off their internal dialogue, in a relatively quiet space, while being exposed to a industry standard sound system.....it helps alot. If the world of sound you're looking to augment with music, is like many people's in this society, then music of this style is of limited purpose for you. Some "new age" business locals ( chiropractors, birthing centers,) utilize this style of music to enhance their office atmosphere, but live performance is of limited need or use.Indeed as I think about it ,my last live gig was 2 years ago this coming October for an artist's reception at a gallery in Denver. I suppose that this vexation in booking gigs is ongoing for all artists dealing in esoteric styles, but sometimes it seems that the devices we use can create an uneasy aspect for the audience to appreciate as being a "live" performance. Unique textures we love, simply don't always translate to someone who simply wants to see you "play" your instrument , and there are a surprising number of these people out there. After noticing people putting their heads down on the tables to enjoy the music, one coffeehouse told me that people didn't order as much when we played, not a marketeting plus, for that kind of venue. Considerations such as these along with the personal cost aspect of performing ,by definition, "unpopular" music make for a persuasive argument to keep this music in the studio. The pay to play reality is harder to come to terms with as my family and I get older. The number of artists who manage to achieve any degree of sucess from their loop related work (of a non-ambient vein) is growing as the technology gets more familiar to the listening public. However I don't feel the same optimism for the ambient side of the loop house, as it where. The audience for real, delicate,and thoughtful loop texturing is a limited one, probably containing more than a few fellow loopers in it's ranks. In that loopers are good listeners, that's not a bad thing, however the tour attendance figures could be a bit small. Perhaps it's just a twisted marketing ploy away... Batman battles the "Loopster"...thrill to the stage magic and kinetic thrills of "Loopdance"...one ticket----two stages-- 17 different loop artists, it's "Loopalooza 98"......then every kid will want a hand held portable looper as seen in "Home Alone '98-Looped Again". After all... to the uneducated ear a closed loop sounds the same as a constantly triggered sample...right? I have surely digressed..pardon the ramble..loop on. Sincerely, Bryan Helm From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 01:12:36 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 6 21:06:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wl548-0004Ut-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:06:20 -0700 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: G3 info Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:05:17 GMT Message-Id: <970706220006213@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"oudHSB.A.V_D.qpGwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/669 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:06:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 0c5590ed34786812308f7bdfba5da300 Recently spoke with Bill Forth, road manager for R. Fripp on the current G3 tour. He said the tour will be taking a break, but will resume in September. He also mentioned that R.F. has been joined recently for Soundscapes on stage by Mike Keneally and Stu Hamm(spelling?) Thought it might be of interest. Bryan Helm From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 21:51:05 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 15:04:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlIkw-0004ip-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:43:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199707071816.LAA12926@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Returning music Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 13:20:04 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"xcCPx.A.EpC.yNTwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/673 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:43:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 5adf8120c391a8c50fd5aabfe1bd3782 >You're absolutely right in saying that record stores need to provide >consumers with a way of being able to hear things before they buy them. >(How many other examples can you think of where a person is expected to >buy something without trying it out first, which they cannot return if >they don't like it?!) And if I were dealing with an indie shop that >stocked a lot of releases I was interested in, which also offered >Blockbuster-style (or better) listening stations, I would likely be more >inclined to justify an extra expense (though not in the $16.99 - and - up >range). As a matter of fact, I buy from indies at least as often as >from a major chain. What backward burgs are y'all living in? No return policy? Shee-yit.... Anyway, I used to work in an indie CD store in Austin, Texas, and we had two CD listening stations and a turntable where you could listen to anything before buying it and return anything within 10 days for credit with a receipt. We had a posted policy explaining that we weren't a library, and that if we though you were abusing the return/listening policy, we'd just show you the door. It wasn't a problem with most things, but a few years back the majors started a "zero-defects/no returns" policy, where they wouldn't take returns on stuff that had been opened. In the old days stores would wink and say "These were defective!" and the label would wink back and go "That's okay! We're robbing the musicians blind anyway!" and take the crap back. This makes it difficult to return opened stuff which someone just didn't like. Since we also sold used CD's, we'd just mark it at the used price ($9.99 versus $13.99 new) and eat it. It happened rarely enough that it was worth getting people to try things (people are lazy about returns) to offset the new returns. Being a small store, we didn't buy that much stuff directly from the majors, so it wasn't a big factor, but for the large chains, it might be more of a problem. However, I know that Tower has a return policy, and if they can do it, it would seem that Blockbuster can. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 09:43:45 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 07:48:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlF5R-0003Vz-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 07:48:21 -0700 Message-Id: <1172.199707071442@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:42:02 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"x_XdXC.A.A8C.dBQwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/671 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 07:48:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 820cf3aadd43c049b63faf38aff33812 Right, said Fred*: >- player and "listener" are SAME person. >- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) >- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . . Point one is only true in you're playing for yourself; if there is an audience, this statement becomes rather abstract and meaningless. Point two seems terribly judgemental. In my opinion the performer isn't really in a position to criticise the audience for finding their work boring. The audience all have certain expectations in return for giving valuable hours of their lives to listen to a player. The player is _obliged_ to make that experience worthwhile, especially if they've paid. Point 3 is totally valid, but meshes best with point 2 when you can filter an audience to thoes people who share your musical tastes... On a similar point, Kim Corbet's post about involving the audience is exactly on the nail. Brilliant post Kim!!! Michael *Sorry, couldn't resist! Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 * "And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft * just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 21:51:03 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 13:20:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlKGf-000713-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:20:17 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1172.199707071442@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:43:22 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"RGxJDD.A.WbG.S6Uwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/674 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:20:17 -0700 X-UIDL: c81312a4760090eb71478345ae263896 At 3:42 PM +0100 7/7/97, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: >Right, said Fred*: >>- player and "listener" are SAME person. >>- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) >>- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . . > >Point one is only true in you're playing for yourself; if there is an >audience, this statement becomes rather abstract and meaningless. Even I, with an engineering degree and a dim knowledge of philosophy, recognized point one's origins in the German Enlightenment, and it's connection to one of the more important thinkers in human history. I Kant imagine who that might be though.....;-) synthesis is more than the square wave coming out of that box in your rack..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 11:15:22 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 10:18:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlHQl-0005dO-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:18:31 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 1997 11:57:58 -0700 From: "Hartnett, Travis" Subject: FS: Jamman $250 To: "Loopers Delight postings" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"_kgjvB.A.lzD.DCSwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/672 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:18:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 94da5e3410154a8847dad4f2d1926548 >From Harmony Central: Lexicon JamMan, digital delay. Asking Price: US$250 Condition: Excellent Age: N/A Description: Lexicon JamMan digital delay unit in perfect condition. Includes pedal and power supply. Manual included. 250$ firm. you pay shipping. E-mail: aalacruz@samford.edu Seller: Archie La Cruz, 205-939-1734 E-mail: aalacruz@samford.edu Location: BIRMINGHAM, AL Post Date: 7/3/97 From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 21:51:18 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 20:38:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlR6N-0003mh-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:38:07 -0700 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: Loopness Monster Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:31:10 GMT Message-Id: <970707163005233@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"mW3aMB.A.8QD.JVbwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/677 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:38:07 -0700 X-UIDL: bea0bc7bdf3816bfa81105f0e5785389 Can you say typographical error? Can you say Loopness Monster? Sure you can! And I can too, second time around. Bryan Helm (Typing Class Flunkee -17 Words Per Min) From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 02:22:53 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 22:39:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlSzO-0004MB-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:39:02 -0700 Message-Id: <9707078683.AA868306259@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 97 14:57:35 -0600 From: "mmason" To: Subject: Record stores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KmedlB.A.cyD.mGdwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/679 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:39:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 5d1d3a524e4478c5d128030fad1fb0ce All the talk about record stores got me thinkin..... Down here in Austin, TX we have two or three used CD stores that go by the name of CD Wharehouse. I'm prettey sure they're a chain, cus when I was in Colorado last summer I remember seeing one. I don't know about their return policy, but you can listen to any CD (ecept for real rare ones and imports) before you buy it. And their prices are pretty good too. Buying used CDs has allowed my collection to grow a lot more than if I had spent $15.00 on new ones all the time. You might think that they only have rather mainstream discs, but they have some pretty obscure stuff sometimes. I think people read about the CDs in magazines and stuff, so they buy em and then they have a listen, and they really think the CDs suck. So they trade em in. Ive gottten some Fripp soundscapes , some modern classical stuff, and seen some Torn and other "ambient?" or "experimental" discs. I also bought some great used cassetes, LPs, and CDs at Half Price Books. BUt when I want to get DMG, CMP, or other strange CDs I am forced to go to a really expensive store (like Waterloo Records, Book People, Antones Records) where I can't afford anything. I paid $20.00 for my "Polytown" CD at Barnes and Nobels. It was worth it but..............just too much. Also bands like Chavez, Man...or Astroman? and lots of "experimental" discs I want to check out are only at these stores. So I end up not making the purchase. That sucks. I'm sure you all cared, but I just felt like writin some email. Wowsers. Jay or Boris mmason@faulkcomp.com From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 21:51:06 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 17:43:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlONN-0003Wq-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:43:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:39:43 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970707203942_225897193@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"jdM04B.A.QOD.mzYwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/675 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:43:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 90c22fedd92c25d9b9fa254cf15f077d Recently I posted an excerpt from a Jazz Theory book about audience concentration, or lack of, when confronted with a piece of music they might be unfamiliar with. Someone asked for suggestions on how to keep an audience interested. This is a real good question that I thought should go out to the list and hopefully generate some good tips/discussion. Here's a couple things I came up: 1) Be interested yourself. Nothing turns an audience off quicker than a performer just going through the motions, no matter how technically brilliant the performance. Even if you're struggling trying to make something happen (Here I'm refferring to my imrovisational approach, but it applies to all approaches-I think, to loopage which basically starts off with the building of a loop/loops and then morphing them over time-in effect going on a journey-and in the process weaving in some original "tunes"-basically excuses to "jam" in a more conventional way- along the way) The audience will hang in there with you (long enough at least until you can, hopefully get out of trouble) if they can tell that you're "into" what you're doing. 2) How to get yourself interested? One way I use is to throw myself a curve such as start building your "springboard loop" in a different key, or with a noise, or let's say with a different loop length. As per this last one you might, after explaining to the audience how your Looper devices work, let someone from the audience come up and initiate loop record/length while you noodle away, thus capturing a non - planned initial loop that you, now all of a sudden have to do something with. Also, when one audience member becomes involved, in effect they all are, on a number of levels. On one level they are drawn in by becoming part of the performance and on another level they could be drawn in by way of a competative "let's see if we can stump the musician" kind of thing. Either way you've got their attention and hopefully your own. :-). Other suggestions?-Paul (Mindscape Explorer) From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 21:51:12 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 20:22:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlQrF-0002W7-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:22:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970707201628.00648480@mail.well.com> X-Sender: dog@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:16:28 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: dan mcmullen Subject: help!? - plex thermal problem even with mod? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9bwVMB.A.NEC.-Fbwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/676 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:22:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 2da8771fb7491e4e3fc51216c520732f just saw the "undo == record" behavior on my new plex after having it on for most of today! has anyone else seen this? the only twist to my mod was that the adc chip in my plex is socketed, so i just bent the pin out rather than clipping it. this should work, yes? my board is rev b, w/ 3.32 firmware. can anyone tell me what's going on? is there any additional way to avoid the thermal problem? tia, dan ps- figured out that the undo led goes on the 2nd loop after recording if feedback is less than 100%: you can undo the gain reduction for each loop! :-) seems like this could interfere with undoing overdubs & such when feedback is <100% though. is there any way to disable this behavior? ___ dan mcmullen don't worry - pay attention dog@well.com 415.681-0712 pgp public key id = 0A25C54D (finger dog@well.com for current key) fingerprint = E4 F9 24 00 8C 1F 69 48 3B 09 C4 9A 09 59 43 0E From ???@??? Mon Jul 07 21:51:18 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 7 21:36:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlS0T-0000Jk-00; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:36:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707080430.AAA14423@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: NEW JERSEY LOOPERS ??? !!!!Live Loopage.... Resent-Message-ID: <"U2GA_B.A.XUH.ULcwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/678 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:36:05 -0700 X-UIDL: af2c5f7896a8e83431104f02ad01a247 hello looping sistren & brethren..... if you're not in NJ or are easily bored - don't read on.... but if you are nearby or enjoy a good laugh - by all means - enjoy the following and i hope you can make the show..... also - Jersey/ NY/ PA looping people - let's keep in touch... a few of you have already established contact and i hope we get some shows going on - others - please do so !!! and let me know of yr performances..! andre' read on............ yo!! happy roswell anniversary... TODAY....!! yeah yeah, i know, you're rolling your eyes... Look - i don't know any more about this than you do - but on this day 50 years ago - the US ARMY THEMSELVES claimed that a "flying saucer" had crashed and been found... Two days later - the hasty retraction was released - - but lets' remember - THEY STARTED IT !!.. anyway... if Timothy Leary was driving along Highway 420 between Dallas TX and Roswell, NM, guess who would be on the radio ..... ____________________________________________________________ JFK's LSD-UFO !!! featuring - Cheri Jiosne on drums, percussion, synthes, bells, looping Andre' Cholmondeley (of the zappa trib band & hidden agenda) on guitar, synth, tapes, samples, vocals, looping well -come hear us this THURSDAY JULY 10 at --- THE BRIGHTON BAR 121 Brighton Ave Longbranch NJ 908-222-9684 ____________________________________________________________ and we really really start at 9:45 pm... c'mon down !!!! what do we do?? lotsa percussion, synth patches, samples, delay loops, pukey guitar very spacey... tripping without the time investment. this week's performance will feature " Empire Century" - a treatise on the fact that on MAY 23 1997 - the United States reached a dubious landmark - we now have US troops in 100 countries !!!! Yes!!! So - as even the miserable BRITISH EMPIRE comes to a halt in Hong Kong (so the Chinese Empire can take over) we in the USA roll onwards to bizarre dimensions. We can't afford decent school lunches, day care, BASIC health care, safe, clean water or air, or many other basic democratic amenities - but we can afford to put a zillion of our trained goons in every corner of the world. Ahhhh... e pluribus unum well - if you're read this far and haven't pressed delete in disgust, email me if you're interested in ordering our tape - which will be out in about 3 weeks.... you're be informed against your will anyway.... peace, we gotta work for it ! andre' From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 02:33:41 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 02:30:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlWb5-00068W-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:30:11 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970707201628.00648480@mail.well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:39:11 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: help!? - plex thermal problem even with mod? Resent-Message-ID: <"HUn-KC.A.ZoF.0fgwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/682 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:30:11 -0700 X-UIDL: ab0556ebcfc1f5523ac202e91a2fca02 Hi Dan- you've asked about undo on the echoplex a bunch of times recently. I've been meaning to help you out, but haven't yet had a chance to get to it. I can get you a quick answer today: At 8:16 PM -0700 7/7/97, dan mcmullen wrote: >just saw the "undo == record" behavior on my new plex after having it on >for most of today! has anyone else seen this? > >the only twist to my mod was that the adc chip in my plex is socketed, so i >just bent the pin out rather than clipping it. this should work, yes? two possible problems: a) you bent up the wrong pin. check the diagram on the website to make sure you got it right. b) it is July and you live in the Northern Hemisphere, where it is the middle of a hot summer, and your echoplex was on all day in a poorly ventilated room with a high ambient temperature. If that is the case, take the advice of our friends in equatorial climates, and use a fan. Air moving around a metal box will do a lot to remove heat. If the adc pin is cut, the temperature has to be quite high to cause a failure, but I've seen people do it! The heat inside a metal box enclosed in a rack can get far greater than the air where you are sitting. Remember, all electronics devices will fail if the heat they generate is not somehow removed. Even if there is not some obvious problem, excessive heat will be causing many components to slowly deteriorate, and one day you will have a problem. Take care of your gear, keep it cool and clean, and it will last. >my board is rev b, w/ 3.32 firmware. that doesn't matter for this problem. > >tia, >dan > >ps- figured out that the undo led goes on the 2nd loop after recording if >feedback is less than 100%: you can undo the gain reduction for each loop! >:-) seems like this could interfere with undoing overdubs & such when >feedback is <100% though. is there any way to disable this behavior? Reducing feedback is changing the loop in exactly the same way as Overdub. Undo takes away changes made to the loop, whether they are made by overdub or feedback or whatever. There is no way to change that or have undo differentiate between one kind of change and another. (boy, that would be a complicated user interface!) Take another look at the section in the manual that explains how memory and undo are related to get a better understanding of this. As you are probably noticing, undoing the gain changes is pretty useful anyway! hope this helps, kim >___ >dan mcmullen don't worry - pay attention >dog@well.com 415.681-0712 >pgp public key id = 0A25C54D (finger dog@well.com for current key) > fingerprint = E4 F9 24 00 8C 1F 69 48 3B 09 C4 9A 09 59 43 0E ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 10:32:00 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 08:08:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlbs6-0003Bd-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:08:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:11:45 +0400 Message-ID: <000020A5.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re[2]: Returning music To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"gWZc-.A.usC.Ublwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/688 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:08:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 7562237dfa6d70a7d428b199285d979a Status: U Let The Power Fall e' um disco altamente conceitual e deve ser ouvido/entendido como tal. Nao menos importante que a musica e' o texto que acompanha o disco. Idem para as outras obras da trilogia. Nao esqueca tambem que foi gravado com os dois Revox+Les Paul+Big Muff. Toda essa epoca so'faz ver que o Fripp e'um dos caras mais consistentes que ja' passaram pela "industria musical". Como sugestao (to brincando): toca o cd atraves de um Vortex ou qualquer outro multieffect que os sons devem mudar... Miguel ___________________________ Separador de Resposta ________________________ Assunto: Re: Returning music Autor: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) na INTERNET Data: 08/07/1900 9:37 Travis: >What backward burgs are y'all living in? No return policy? Shee-yit.... I wish... Ifinally got "Let The Power Fall" t'other day and was utterly disappointed. I was expecting more variety of tones (ie more than one!), as on the GP soundpage "Easter Monday" or the performances in Wimbourne Minster for a BBC documentary. I'd really like to take this one back - the whole "beyond Fripp" argument seems more and more meaningless... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes *Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 *University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 *"And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft*just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 02:22:56 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 01:41:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlVpZ-0004PI-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:41:05 -0700 Message-Id: <10402.199707080837@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:37:52 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Returning music Resent-Message-ID: <"VOVHX.A.3-D.zxfwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/680 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:41:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 66e3008857f57b00998af5dabcaf8b99 Travis: >What backward burgs are y'all living in? No return policy? Shee-yit.... I wish... Ifinally got "Let The Power Fall" t'other day and was utterly disappointed. I was expecting more variety of tones (ie more than one!), as on the GP soundpage "Easter Monday" or the performances in Wimbourne Minster for a BBC documentary. I'd really like to take this one back - the whole "beyond Fripp" argument seems more and more meaningless... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes *Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 *University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 *"And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft*just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 02:22:57 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 01:46:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlVup-0004hC-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:46:31 -0700 Message-Id: <10519.199707080843@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:43:34 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"GpWZMD.A.ERE.H3fwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/681 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:46:31 -0700 X-UIDL: dc427fda5faa1be955a463ceb0efc3cb Kim: >Mike: >>Fred: >>>- player and "listener" are SAME person. >>Point one is only true in you're playing for yourself; if there is an >>audience, this statement becomes rather abstract and meaningless. >Even I, with an engineering degree and a dim knowledge of philosophy, >recognized point one's origins in the German Enlightenment, Showoff! :( >synthesis is more than the square wave coming out of that box in your rack..... You've been hanging around with these... these... _arty_ types too long, Kim! Go to your room and read nothing but S-plane based signal processing texts 'till all these nasty thoughts have gone. Trust me, I'm a doctor... :) Michael "Two conjugate poles in the right side of the plane......." Faster, faster! Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes *Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 *University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 *"And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft*just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 02:37:21 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 02:40:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlWkr-0006ZL-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:40:17 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <10519.199707080843@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:33:16 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"aMhN-B.A.f_F.epgwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/683 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:40:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 79bd7bf54667276ce733f4b24356eee1 >Kim: >>Mike: >>>Fred: >>>>- player and "listener" are SAME person. >>>Point one is only true in you're playing for yourself; if there is an >>>audience, this statement becomes rather abstract and meaningless. >>Even I, with an engineering degree and a dim knowledge of philosophy, >>recognized point one's origins in the German Enlightenment, > >Showoff! :( > >>synthesis is more than the square wave coming out of that box in your >>rack..... > >You've been hanging around with these... these... _arty_ types too long, Kim! >Go to your room and read nothing but S-plane based signal processing texts >'till all these nasty thoughts have gone. Trust me, I'm a doctor... :) heh....I'm practicing to get into upper management. You see, the people that sound smart but can't actually do anything get paid the really big bucks....If you actually make the mistake of developing a useful skill, you'll be forced to do it for your whole life.... >Michael > >"Two conjugate poles in the right side of the plane......." Faster, faster! ouch, ouch! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 10:31:40 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 04:37:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlYa5-0001lT-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:37:17 -0700 Date: 08 Jul 97 07:32:03 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Record stores Message-ID: <970708113203_74074.1316_GHP54-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"qe2XtC.A.KfB.0Wiwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/684 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:37:17 -0700 X-UIDL: f70856d0e46169c78656b742fd6b9d20 Status: U Jay wrote: >I paid $20.00 for my "Polytown" CD at Barnes and Nobels. It was worth it >but..............just too much. OK, I'll admit $20 is extreme for a CD. But did you look into buying a novel while at Barnes & Nobles? Which you'll probably read but once? It really isn't so bad when you look at entertainment costs across the board. Jon Durant From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 10:31:42 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 05:13:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlZ97-0002va-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 05:13:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:10:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707081210.OAA16459@mailbox.swip.net> X-Sender: m-34212@mailbox.swipnet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mattias Ribbing Subject: Re: Record stores Resent-Message-ID: <"rVDbnC.A.ylC.J5iwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/685 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 05:13:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 251ab82eba429b1112fe0178dd759216 Status: U > >>I paid $20.00 for my "Polytown" CD at Barnes and Nobels. It was worth it >>but..............just too much. > > >OK, I'll admit $20 is extreme for a CD. But did you look into buying a novel >while at Barnes & Nobles? Which you'll probably read but once? It really isn't >so bad when you look at entertainment costs across the board. > >Jon Durant You guys are lucky. Here in Sweden you can«t find new cd«s for less than $19 (USD). There are some stores where you can buy used cd«s but there are only mainstream music there. Mattias From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 10:31:48 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 07:32:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlbJO-0000uT-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:32:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:28:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707081428.JAA09174@mail2.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: Re: Record stores Resent-Message-ID: <"o1J6RB.A.Am.C6kwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/686 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:32:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 702ee62cd9222f53eb02122ff1077dab Status: U well if you are going to pay $20 for a CD, "Polytown" is one that is worth it,,i have found alot of good CD deals from ordering online,,,i mean some hard to find used and new ones, our little local world music etc CD store went belly up due to the effects of a Blockbuster music opening about a block away,,,Blockbuster is slack,and expensive,,,of course i dont eat at Mcdonalds either, why pay someone to poison my body and mind with mediocrity? i am capable of doing that myself. james rhodes At 02:10 PM 7/8/97 +0200, you wrote: >> >>>I paid $20.00 for my "Polytown" CD at Barnes and Nobels. It was worth it >>>but..............just too much. >> >> >>OK, I'll admit $20 is extreme for a CD. But did you look into buying a novel >>while at Barnes & Nobles? Which you'll probably read but once? It really isn't >>so bad when you look at entertainment costs across the board. >> >>Jon Durant > >You guys are lucky. Here in Sweden you can«t find new cd«s for less than $19 >(USD). There are some stores where you can buy used cd«s but there are only >mainstream music there. > >Mattias > > > > From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 10:31:56 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 07:57:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlbhN-0002Sm-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:57:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970708075102.005dfea0@mail.well.com> X-Sender: dog@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 07:51:02 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dan mcmullen Subject: Re: help!? - plex thermal problem even with mod? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.19970707201628.00648480@mail.well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aYM02D.A.7CC.pRlwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/687 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:57:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d98a89fb841a91c685b8571888719f6 Status: U At 10:39 PM 7/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Dan- > >you've asked about undo on the echoplex a bunch of times recently. I've >been meaning to help you out, but haven't yet had a chance to get to it. I >can get you a quick answer today: i appreciate it. >At 8:16 PM -0700 7/7/97, dan mcmullen wrote: >>just saw the "undo == record" behavior on my new plex after having it on >>for most of today! has anyone else seen this? >> >>the only twist to my mod was that the adc chip in my plex is socketed, so i >>just bent the pin out rather than clipping it. this should work, yes? > >two possible problems: > >a) you bent up the wrong pin. check the diagram on the website to make sure >you got it right. > pretty sure on that one. >b) it is July and you live in the Northern Hemisphere, where it is the >middle of a hot summer, and your echoplex was on all day in a poorly >ventilated room with a high ambient temperature. If that is the case, take >the advice of our friends in equatorial climates, and use a fan. as a last resort, i'll do that. alternately, is there one component in particular that is heat sensitive? the adc? i've glued heat sinks on particular chips in the past. this problem hasn't recurred yet, but it wasn't all that hot in the house at the time. >>ps- figured out that the undo led goes on the 2nd loop after recording if >>feedback is less than 100%: you can undo the gain reduction for each loop! >>:-) seems like this could interfere with undoing overdubs & such when >>feedback is <100% though. is there any way to disable this behavior? > >Reducing feedback is changing the loop in exactly the same way as Overdub. >Undo takes away changes made to the loop, whether they are made by overdub >or feedback or whatever. There is no way to change that or have undo >differentiate between one kind of change and another. (boy, that would be a >complicated user interface!) Take another look at the section in the manual >that explains how memory and undo are related to get a better understanding >of this. As you are probably noticing, undoing the gain changes is pretty >useful anyway! sometimes yes. other times it can make it hard to predict what undo will (un)do. also, it means that 'undo' memory gets used up rather quickly when feedback is reduced. i see the difficulties though. mostly, i was surprised to see undo kick in w/ reduced feedback. it seems that there have been other times (after multiply?) when undo became active without obvious reason. is there a comprehensive list of undoable events? are there other surprising undoables? just what you need: more questions with too little time to answer them! :-) >hope this helps, it does. thanks. dan ___ dan mcmullen don't worry - pay attention dog@well.com 415.681-0712 pgp public key id = 0A25C54D (finger dog@well.com for current key) fingerprint = E4 F9 24 00 8C 1F 69 48 3B 09 C4 9A 09 59 43 0E From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 10:32:01 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 09:12:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlcsI-0005xU-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:12:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:33:15 -0400 (EDT) From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <970708113200_-1024660261@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Various/Digitech Resent-Message-ID: <"0l3cbB.A.0dE.VKmwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/689 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:12:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 9b72ba7ac889fb2315e398a5fa7db9a1 Status: U The duos I was doing with Don Prestonat Lumpy Gravy in L.A. which I informed this list about have been discontinued. Don bowed out of the whole weekly series due to lack of attendance. >>- player and "listener" are SAME person. The state of music would be so much better if this were true most of the time... >>- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) You've never been bored by ANYTHING? What an excruciatingly relentless parade of excitement your life must be...you need to watch more television, my friend >>- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . . Worrying won't get you anywhere, I agree, but I think if you only play music YOU want to hear you must come to terms with the reality that it's possible ONLY YOU will be compelled to hear it. If you can accept that, fine. There's also an oft-cited philosophy that just about anything can find at least a small audience if it's marketed right (which I agree with to some extent), so if you're trying to make any kind of profession out of it, recognize you'll have to become your own marketing department to a proportional degree, IMHO the least attractive aspect of being a musician (even if a necessary evil...) On a more characteristic 'gear-oriented' note, I noticed in some advance promotional literature from Digitech that they are about to unleash the XP-300 "Space Station" onto the world, which has a set of features called Sound On Sound, amongst other things. I smell a low-budget, simple (if somewhat limited) looping device here. Anyone know more about this? This new XP series has some nice features as far as low-cost, user-friendly, performance-friendly, easily-portable devices go. There are a series of effects you can scroll through by footswitch, each of which has one parameter adjustable by a rocking pedal. I've owned the XP-100 Whammy/Wah for a few months thinking it'd be a nice toy to throw in the mix occaisonally and have ended up carting it to just about every gig I've done recently, from rock to jazz to free-improv/ambient to Persian pop music, etc and it never fails to provoke GAS* in my fellow musicians.... I have no affiliation with Digitech unless they wanna start giving me stuff... Ken R *I have always known this as "Gear Acquisition Syndrome" From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 10:32:02 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 10:03:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wldeG-00019A-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:01:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199707081627.JAA00193@usr07.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Let The Power Fall... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:26:01 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q_ZFVB.A.JiG.krmwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/690 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:01:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b12b52413a6a4327038e1499d57b7da Status: U Dr. Hughes wrote: > I wish... Ifinally got "Let The Power Fall" t'other day and was utterly > disappointed. I was expecting more variety of tones (ie more than one!), > as on the GP soundpage "Easter Monday" or the performances in Wimbourne > Minster for a BBC documentary. I'd really like to take this one back - the > whole "beyond Fripp" argument seems more and more meaningless... Might I remind you that the Let The Power Fall material is quite a bit older than the current Soundscapes material, and also more than minimalist in comparison. As a rough outline/example of looping guitar, if not also an introduction to such work, I think it excels. There is no levels of complexity to plow through to figure out "how it's done", frankly; and, as minimalist tone poems, I've always liked LTPF myself. What exactly were you looking for in this album, to be so disappointed? * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 20:51:02 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 16:55:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlk6o-00024V-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:55:50 -0700 X-Sender: landman@mail.wco.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:07:54 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: landman@wco.com (Mark Landman) Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall... Resent-Message-ID: <"BiKiTB.A.8gB.yJtwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/692 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:55:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 31634ad69b110c2154699d6619e86254 >Dr. Hughes wrote: > >> I wish... Ifinally got "Let The Power Fall" t'other day and was utterly >> disappointed. I was expecting more variety of tones (ie more than one!), >> as on the GP soundpage "Easter Monday" or the performances in Wimbourne >> Minster for a BBC documentary. I'd really like to take this one back - >the >> whole "beyond Fripp" argument seems more and more meaningless... > Remeber besides the age of this recording (1979), that we're only hearing the recorded loop material, NOT the soloing that was an integral part of the process. It's a testament to quality of the material that you could remove "half" of it and have it still function as a musical piece. I saw Fripp at Mabuhay (July 29th show, the "1989" track), and it was marvelousÉ Mark From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 20:51:09 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 17:17:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlkRy-000451-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:17:42 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970706220006212@tmbsbbs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:27:35 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: loopness monster Resent-Message-ID: <"hZk-6.A.0QD.8ctwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/693 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:17:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 686c7dae023129d28c25ed75e06aa7e7 Bryan Helm wrote: >Some "new age" >business >locals ( chiropractors, birthing centers,) utilize this style of music >to enhance >their office atmosphere, but live performance is of limited need or >use.Indeed >as I think about it ,my last live gig was 2 years ago this coming >October for an >artist's reception at a gallery in Denver. I suppose that this vexation >in booking >gigs is ongoing for all artists dealing in esoteric styles, but >sometimes it >seems that the devices we use can create an uneasy aspect for the >audience >to appreciate as being a "live" performance. Unique textures we love, >simply >don't always translate to someone who simply wants to see you "play" >your >instrument , and there are a surprising number of these people out >there. I know this feeling. Years ago, my brother and I played at a Halloween "installation" at the Claremont colleges. Dressed in costume, we created a collage of spooky sounds using guitars and synths, all while strange slides were being projected on the wall behind us. Personally, I thought the occasion (ie. Halloween) and the music and the slides fit really well together. However, there were many people in the crowd (loud, obnoxious, beer-drinking types) who could not stand there and listen to such sounds. They kept shouting "Come on, lets have a jam -- play some songs". Now, I'm not claiming that my ebowed, delayed guitar textures are the greatest thing since sliced bread...but there IS an expectation by many people, whereupon if you are standing in front of them with an electric guitar, they expect you to break out a blues jam or at least some display of "technique" or "music" that they are familiar with. Anyways, we responded to this situation by ignoring these people and continuing on with our amorphous sounds (needless to say, we did not get a lot of audience appreciation) -- but I realized: For a performance to succeed (from both the performer's and the audience's perspective) the music must be appropriate for that particular time, place, situation, AND audience. Now when Jimi Hendrix played his guitar with his teeth, or set it on fire, as a part of his performance -- it worked! That is, it worked at Monterey and Woodstock, but I'm sure we can all think of hundereds of venues and situations where he would have gotten thrown off stage. Nowadays, any joker with a strat & Marshall amp, playing 500 notes per minute can satisfy a typical rock audience. But what audiences are available for us loopers? Well, that is the question we have to answer, and in part, I think we have to CREATE our own situations and audiences. That is, we need to find out what works, and build upon that until....maybe some day....we will be playing LOOPAPOLOOZA's (that's a great one, Bryan!) or filling stadiums for loop performances. That is, perhaps, sound spaces will become a standard of expectation among certain audeiences. This leads me to question what the FUNCTION(s) of loop music is...A culture formed around rock music, because rock concerts performed a function: whether it was to allow someone to achieve a mental and emotional epiphany in a concert setting, or whether it allowed a teenager to get out of the house and "break rules", etc....In any case, the rock concert performed a function -- and it seems to me that this was initially driven, or at least facilitated by the TECHNOLOGY. That is, we didn't have any rock concerts until electric guitars and high-powered guitar amps were invented. Then, Cream and The Who (etc..) did what they did and it took off from there. The same thing has happened in the electronic music arena. Low-cost synths and drum machines of the '80s "facilitated" the rave scene of the '90s. So, what will low-cost, high audio-quality looping devices "facilitate" in the years to come? That is for us to create. Bryan, you seemed to have experimented in almost every type of venue/setting....Which ones worked? Why do you suppose it worked? IMHO, looping devices are good for the following functions/settings: 1. Inner reflection -- meditation. I don't mean to sound New-Agey, but, as in rave music, repetition is condusive for this. Sometimes I sit listening to my own loops for hours, and can be good for self-reflection and encourages feelings of being "present". 2. Performer -- audience interaction. Since the performer can get loops going, then have some time to do other things -- perhaps creating ways to get feedback (ie. sounds, signals, etc.) from the audience, real-time, and incorporate them into the performance. 3. As Bryan, suggested, combining sounds with other mediums, perhaps even having them "interact" with each other. 4. Installation settings, where the music is not the prime focus. Just some ideas...thanks for your post Bryan, and don't lose faith in your music, just because your audiences aren't ready for it! It is up to us to create the transition from loud, crowded, alcohol-laden rock festivals to ________________ (please fill in the blank). - Chris P.S. Put me down for 2 of the hand-held, portable loopers! --------------------------------------------------- AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator mailto:avec@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov http://makalu.jpl.nasa.gov/html/avdep.html Lab: (415) 604-2172 Pager: (888) 415-4547 --------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Jul 09 00:35:36 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 23:11:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlpyK-00037x-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:11:28 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199707082344.QAA10599@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: What do they hear??? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <25103.199707041431@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> from "Dr M. P. Hughes" at Jul 4, 97 03:31:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7coNzD.A.BvC.nrywz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/698 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:11:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 8dc30ae952c891f761cf7c7549ad49e9 > most. In fact, New Age music buyers are oftem more likely to make impulse > purchaces than people shopping from the Rock/Pop section, hence more sales. I found CDs by Anthony Braxton and Sun RA in the New Age section at the local Tower Records. ^_^ Torn's CDs are clearly marked "File under Rock" yet they still turn up in the Jazz section... Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 20:51:09 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 17:17:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlkRy-000459-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:17:42 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199707090012.RAA10799@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:12:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <17707.199707081649@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> from "Dr M. P. Hughes" at Jul 8, 97 05:49:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eSNBXD.A.rTD.Qdtwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/694 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:17:42 -0700 X-UIDL: a0d89dbe44b7716f90a070339dfe6945 Speaking of Fripp... I kind of like what he said about music labeling: "I call my music 'rock' because you can play anything and get away with calling it 'rock'" When I get around to recording the ethno/electronica/jazz/you-name-it music in my mind, I think I'll call my music "rock" too. ^_^ Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 20:51:13 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 18:29:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wllZE-0002tu-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:29:16 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970709013442.00a1355c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 18:34:42 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: loopness monster Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"_vFJsD.A.ScC._iuwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/695 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:29:16 -0700 X-UIDL: ca354e3fc9833c018f95fd00d2d2ac19 At 10:27 AM 7/8/97 -0800, Chris Chovit wrote: > It is up to us to >create the transition from loud, crowded, alcohol-laden rock festivals to >________________ (please fill in the blank). ....loud, crowded, alcohol-laden loop festivals! Yes! Sign me up for that one! kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 08 20:51:14 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 20:01:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wllen-0003Vg-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:35:01 -0700 Message-Id: <9707088684.AA868411996@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 20:18:34 -0600 From: "mmason" To: Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CB8Sb.A.V4C.bnuwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/696 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:35:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 2a2b19fd382a14863f70855928b5cc2c Various people wrote: >> I wish... Ifinally got "Let The Power Fall" t'other day and was utterly >> disappointed. I was expecting more variety of tones (ie more than one!), >> as on the GP soundpage "Easter Monday" or the performances in Wimbourne >> Minster for a BBC documentary. I'd really like to take this one back - >the >> whole "beyond Fripp" argument seems more and more meaningless... > >Might I remind you that the Let The Power Fall material is quite a bit >older than the current Soundscapes material, and also more than minimalist >in comparison. As a rough outline/example of looping guitar, if not also >an introduction to such work, I think it excels. There is no levels of >complexity to plow through to figure out "how it's done", frankly; and, as >minimalist tone poems, I've always liked LTPF myself. >What exactly were you looking for in this album, to be so disappointed? Well, both the documentary and soundpage featured much richer textures, which I was expecting - though both were a _bit_ later than LTPF, maybe '84. Certainly pre-Soundscapes! He was using a Roland Gtr synth, but also electric and acoustic guitars. As an example of looping, agreed, it's great; as a peice of music I wasn't impressed. Your point on "minimalist tone poems" is a good one, though; perhaps I'm listening to the work with the wrong ears (so to speak). I'll give it another go. To those who know the peices I'm talking about - mid-80's Frippertronics - has he released anything with wider varieties of tones? ______________________________________________________________________ I comment: I really dig LTPF! I got it used at Hastings about a year ago. When I first heard it I though "What crap! Doesn't even sound like guitars!" But, I listened to it more and more, and now it one of my fave records. I think that its the ultimate chill-out music. Soundcapes are great too, but I find Frippertronics more organiac, interesting, and enjoyable. Its purty cool to turn it up really loud, sit back, and just listen to Robert construct his "tone poems". Really beatuiful stuff. On the subject of Frippertronics gear: LTPF was recorded in '79. I don't think that Fripp was using guitar synths at that time. I've seen lots of pix of him performing Frippertronics live, and hes just using his Les Paul Custom. I don't think that those early Roland synths used special pickups that you could just install on any guitar. Im pretty sure you had to use the guitar controller that came with the synth. I think the GR300 on looked like a strange Gibson SG. You can see them in various pix of Fripp and Belew, on the "Bruford and the Beat" video, and on the "Live in Japan '84" video. Also, in a interview with Fripp that is on the ELephant Talk website, the interviewer asks some questions about Frippertronics, and Fripp tells all the gear he uses. This is what he said: Frippertronics is defined as that musical experience which results at the (intersection) of Robert Fripp and a small and appropriate level of technology which is my Les Paul, the Fripple board, the Fripp pedal board of fuzz, wah-wah and volume pedals and two Revoxes. Some of the sounds on LTPF sure sound like guitar synth but.....Im not sure. I don't know about the mid 80s stuff though. Never heard it. Wow! I contributed something! Jay or Boris mmason@faulkcomp.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 09 00:35:35 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 8 21:33:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlmik-0000cu-00; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:43:10 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 97 21:37 CDT From: "kim corbet" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Various/Digitech Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b2 Resent-Message-ID: <"B5cS5C.A.ST.Amvwz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/697 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:43:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d480f092ebfd57806c5c1c69475abbe > I have no affiliation with Digitech unless they wanna start giving me > stuff... > > Ken R ......hey, I like that, the indirect approach. You know, I absolutely love inspiring and entertaining a mess o peops 2-3 times aweek with my digitech, boss, studio 21, fender, modulus, shure, SWR, mackie, alesis, clavia, emu and roland gear. And, hey, those JBL speakers are so clear, clean and durable. They're great for any application. Just perfect. Did I ever tell ya about the time some cowboy spilled a whole beer into one of the Eons. I opened it up, swabbed and dried it out...good as new. I thought it was toast, but it sounded better than ever. JBL's the best thing between me and my audience. Shipping address available on request................the spork kim From ???@??? Wed Jul 09 10:03:36 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 9 08:59:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlyHj-000046-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:04:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970709130822.006ab194@allserv.rug.ac.be> X-Sender: madebock@allserv.rug.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 13:08:22 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mario De Bock Subject: Jamman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xrRuX.A.a4G.yc6wz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/700 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:04:03 -0700 X-UIDL: e00129ed0af1eac8180203d6aa28dcfd I'm new on the list. Sorry if the question is boring or so.. A friend convinced me I should buy a Jamman. I'm a guitarist and he knows that years ago I had lots of fun with the 'hold' on my eh.. Roland amplifier I think. I found out that the Jamman is no longer produced. I would just like to have some idea whether it is still available at some places or if second-hand would be the only option. I live in Belgium.. but I would happy to know if it is still available in eg UK (and possible the price range). Thanks if anyone can give me some info! Mario. From ???@??? Wed Jul 09 10:03:34 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 9 08:04:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlyHY-00002f-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:03:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:37:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: <970709073744_-1729055788@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall Resent-Message-ID: <"ybQZpB.A.zvG.nb6wz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/699 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:03:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 9bbfccc13ccf188f65a5f15eb0fa7d06 In a message dated 7/9/97 4:56:56 AM, you wrote: <> I am new here, and still quite naive about looping, but I do know that Fripp achieved his signature "like a guitar synth" tone during that time by a combination of a fuzz box (unfortunately, I can't remember which one, but it is fairly rare) and the neck pickup of his LP with the tone control all the way down, or nearly so. back to lurk mode, Marshall From ???@??? Wed Jul 09 10:03:36 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 9 08:57:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlz7S-0005cb-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:57:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:34:02 -0400 From: "Jason N. Joseph" Subject: Fripp's early loopin' To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199707091034_MC2-1A86-C31B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"PEjsyC.A.-lE.zM7wz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/701 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:57:30 -0700 X-UIDL: c63cf0776282e037742641617b6e24df Michael wrote: >I'll give it another go. To those who know the peices I'm talking about - >mid-80's Frippertronics - has he released anything with wider varieties of >tones? The real kicker here is that in most of those releases (particularly LTPF) you're only hearing half of the original performances ... Fripp used the loops you hear on the disc as loopage bases on top of which he did his patented swirly chaotic mamajama soloing. Unfortunately his gear setup at the time dictated that only the original loops themselves could be committed to tape... There *are* a few extremely rare bootlegs out there of some of his performances from that area which features such loops *with* the soloing over them ... I heard a snippet of one years ago, and the sound quality was worse than abysmal, but you could at least get an idea of what he was up to. And let me tell you those solos were wild. Wow. All of the new soundscapes CDs seem to be recorded more or less the same way ... Mr. Fripp plugs in somewhere for a live improv performance, sets up some loops, records them. I only wish he would do some soloing over them sometime! (His solos on Sylvian's "Gone to Earth" for instance are nifty.) jj From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 01:26:11 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 9 11:25:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wm1QM-0002WU-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:25:10 -0700 Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F0B41FF@mail.exapps.com> From: David Kirkdorffer To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: FW: Unsettling Ambiences Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:35:24 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"ln0nHD.A.aEC.Fb9wz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/703 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:25:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 2ea4214e513e20c6ce4527c5536870b7 > Kim -- you speak the truth here! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kim Flint [SMTP:kflint@annihilist.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 5:33 AM > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences > > > heh....I'm practicing to get into upper management. You see, the > people > that sound smart but can't actually do anything get paid the really > big > bucks....If you actually make the mistake of developing a useful > skill, > you'll be forced to do it for your whole life.... > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 04:28:29 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 01:35:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wm2JS-0005ry-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:22:06 -0700 Message-Id: <2705.199707091544@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:44:44 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall... Resent-Message-ID: <"CespwD.A.dKF.8O-wz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/704 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:22:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 54dd8916fd74f0be3739a4eba0e40823 I railed against Let The Power Fall, to which various people responded: Mark: >Remeber besides the age of this recording (1979), that we're only hearing >the recorded loop material, NOT the soloing that was an integral part of >the process. It's a testament to quality of the material that you could remove >>"half" of it and have it still function as a musical piece. This would make sense, relative to the other performances I'd heard. Jay (or, perhaps, Boris): > Frippertronics is defined as that musical experience which results at > the (intersection) of Robert Fripp and a small and appropriate level > of technology which is my Les Paul, the Fripple board, the Fripp pedal > board of fuzz, wah-wah and volume pedals and two Revoxes. But there's sufficient tone modification on that board (built by Pete Cornish btw, and later including a Roland Space Echo) to perform everything from Larks Tongues through to about Discipline. Maybe I was hoping for something a bit more LTIA-ish, I don't know. He could have turned his fuzz off, perhaps? On the other hand, he's the artist, who am I to criticise? Paolo: >"I call my music 'rock' because you can play anything and get away with >calling it 'rock'" I remember him saying in interview, re KC: "We come together to create music. We call ourselves a band because we get more work that way". This was in '69. He hasn't changed, 'cept he doesn't call himself Bobby anymore. >Torn's CDs are clearly marked "File under Rock" yet they still turn up in >the Jazz section... This reminds me of a discussion, years back, on alt.music.progressive. Discussion had turned to everything from Holdsworth to Glass and Reich, and there was a feeling that the group name wasn't appropriate anymore. Someone suggested "hey, why not change it to alt.music.difficult.listening?" Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes *Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 *University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 *"And the answers? Sometimes the answers www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft*just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Wed Jul 09 10:03:40 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 9 09:43:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wlzpd-0002Lt-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:43:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:35:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: What do they hear??? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199707082344.QAA10599@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MpWuRB.A.bfB.N37wz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/702 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:43:09 -0700 X-UIDL: a4c1839980ba3394b3096f4cc367444f > I found CDs by Anthony Braxton and Sun RA in the New Age section at > the local Tower Records. ^_^ ...............................now, THAT'S funny!!! Well, ya know, Sun Ra was certainly instrumental in, at least, trying to establish a "new age"...maybe he's still working in strange and mysterious ways. From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 01:26:25 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 9 16:33:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wm6Ej-00029O-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:33:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:52:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SoundFNR@aol.com Message-ID: <970709175201_409644312@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: andrew@bocs.co.uk, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex pedal Resent-Message-ID: <"27fW_.A.INB.D2Bxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/705 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:33:29 -0700 X-UIDL: fa421477bf2036f318f5b24267102483 In a message dated 05/07/97 8:31:278:23, you write: > As mentioned, the Roland EV5 is a good expression pedal, but for > some reason Roland charge a ridiculous amount of money for them > ( here in the UK , about 75.00pounds ). I recently came across an > Italian company, Promoel ( or Pro-Moel ? ) who make an exp pedal > just like the Ev5, and they cost about 35.00. I bought one for my > Vortex and it works as well as the EV5. > There may be others, best place to check is keyboard/synth specialist > dealers. Also Bespeco( another bunch of Italians) make the VM 18-L for about the same. Includes switch to reverse pedal action & built in lead. Vortexes fine. Andy (UK) From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 01:26:35 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 9 22:57:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmCEW-0001o1-00; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:57:40 -0700 Message-Id: Subject: Vortex's for Sale Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 01:16:42 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Phil Diem To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"D98vHD.A.NaB.PiHxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:57:40 -0700 X-UIDL: b97fc8f952c15d54e359fbb0c4669475 Hi My name is Phil Diem and I am a newbie to the list. I'll be joining in the conversation on a broader level in the near future. FYI: The Music Box in Detroit, MI (810-263-1994) recently advertised Lexicon Vortex's @ $329 - high, I know - but if ya just gotta have one... I phoned them on 7/8 and was told that they had 6 or so "new in box" and when queried emphatically said they would not discount the $329. When ask about Jammen they laughed. If anyone on the list knows where a Jamman might be found - even @ a high price - just gotta have one... phil From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 10:15:02 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 07:47:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmKVH-00033S-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:47:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:09:16 +0400 Message-ID: <00002229.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re: Vortex's for Sale To: , Phil Diem Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"-bkjVC.A.MRC.DQPxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:47:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 8a27ff247d4fa77b90f41f4a06a40509 There are Jamman and Vortex "new in the box" here in S. Paulo Brazil. Price is about US$ 400 or 450 for the first. You will also have shipping costs. If you are really interested you may contact me and I will forward the request to the music shop (they don't speak english). Regards, Miguel ___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________ Assunto: Vortex's for Sale Autor: Phil Diem na INTERNET Data: 10/07/1900 1:16 Hi My name is Phil Diem and I am a newbie to the list. I'll be joining in the conversation on a broader level in the near future. FYI: The Music Box in Detroit, MI (810-263-1994) recently advertised Lexicon Vortex's @ $329 - high, I know - but if ya just gotta have one... I phoned them on 7/8 and was told that they had 6 or so "new in box" and when queried emphatically said they would not discount the $329. When ask about Jammen they laughed. If anyone on the list knows where a Jamman might be found - even @ a high price - just gotta have one... phil From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 04:28:31 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 04:08:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmH4x-0003vI-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:08:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970710130031.006bbfa4@allserv.rug.ac.be> X-Sender: madebock@allserv.rug.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:00:31 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mario De Bock Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"E6m6NC.A.E3C.EDMxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:08:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 832d813db01a559420c780c8783e583c Hi, Thanks for the response to my question re. availability of the Jamman. a.o. I got the following address : http://www.netbutler.com/boomerang It would be nice to have some feedback from guitar players who are using the 'Boomerang'. >From the description on the web page it looks very nice! Mario. From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 10:15:02 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 07:57:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmKes-0003mO-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:57:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199707101450.HAA17597@marge.cyber-dyne.com> From: "Marc Roche" To: Subject: Re: Vortex's for Sale Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:48:25 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DRJlvB.A.2AD.LaPxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:57:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 7233bbfa3269541d4b99fa14b33a9401 Hi Phil, Just gotta have one? I'll sell you my Jamman with one pedal and 32 sec expansion memory installed for $500 plus shipping. That's $50 more than I got into it. I know I'll regret letting go of it. Let me know if you're interested. Ciao, salaam. ---------- > From: Phil Diem > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Vortex's for Sale > Date: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 6:16 PM > > Hi > > My name is Phil Diem and I am a newbie to the list. I'll be joining in > the conversation on a broader level in the near future. > > FYI: The Music Box in Detroit, MI (810-263-1994) recently advertised > Lexicon Vortex's @ > $329 - high, I know - but if ya just gotta have one... > > I phoned them on 7/8 and was told that they had 6 or so "new in box" and > when queried emphatically said they would not discount the $329. When ask > about Jammen they laughed. > > If anyone on the list knows where a Jamman might be found - even @ a high > price - just gotta have one... > > phil > From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 10:15:05 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 09:27:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmM4S-0004Xh-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:27:56 -0700 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: Let The Power Saw Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:50:06 GMT Message-Id: <970710100005196@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"VpYcjD.A.cKD.4qQxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:27:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 362ce49fe4ec5a19da515c8a06fa70b7 This discussion has reminded me of my initial reaction to the LTPF album many years ago( when vinyl was the best format available). I had started listening to Fripp in the mid 70's and first saw him with Peter Gabriel in spring of 1977 (where he played mostly offstage , billed as Dusty Roads). As an aspiring guitarist myself the blistering shredfest of fierce exactitude that typified the usual R.F. solo was of supreme importance in my musical listening pursuits. The consequent Frippertronics tour of 1979 was a hard one to access for me, though I spoke with people who had seen the record store appearances and a hotel room show even. Robert even appeared on The Midnight Special thanking the producers in a short prologue and then dedicating the loop piece he was to do, in the name of "hazard". Needless to say the style in which he would construct a loop and then solo over it was becoming standard, in as much as this music could be refered to as that. My next opportunity to see him was summer of 1980 with the League of Gentleman tour(opening band Gaga w/ Adrian Belew), still in my mind some of his most earnest live guitar work to date(the studio album was listless, the more recent live CD release captures the spirit much better). Anyway by the time LTPF was released in 1981, I was jonesing to hear those gigs I had missed in 1979. Imagine my surprise when the album only contained the audio from the tape loops themselves, not a solo to be found. The logistics of the tour were articulated in a series of articles Fripp wrote for Musician magazine so I really shoudn't have been surprised by the fact that the reel to reel loop tapes were the only "official" record of the event( it was him and a driver, thatwas it). Still I was bummed....until one day I was listening to the album at my soon to be wife's house, when the Deadheads next door fired up their radial power saw. BINGO! It was the perfect counterpoint (my wife agrees and she is usually more melodically inclined). Ever since that day I have been unable to listen to the album without the subconscious aural image of a power saw ripping through the loops. This question of what people expect to hear when they purchase R.F.'s work is ongoing to this day, whether it be live or a recording there are "unsettled" ears appraising his playing or his balance in the mix. If you want to hear him shred on disc I would recommend the aforementioned live League of Gentlemen CD or the live Sylvian/Fripp Band CD "Damage" (the latter features Soundscapes also). For my money the most dissapointing work in public release by Fripp is the Soundscapes Live in Argentina CD....don't get me started. Bryan Helm Techno Primitve Tantrum Boy From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 10:15:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 09:29:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmM5T-0004cF-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:28:59 -0700 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: Loopist Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:51:34 GMT Message-Id: <970710100005197@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"mlVnbB.A.9JD.0qQxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:28:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 4d1450d0f83b6dab8881309a053db469 In response to Chris Chovit's post regarding past venue success, and in particular his inquiry as to what gigs seemed to work best for me: Well... I don't know how one would gauge the relative "success" of one gig over another. Money earned(fee paid, tapes sold) , audience response, personal level of comfort( no gear malfunction or theft) ,perceived quality of music created(recorded or not), return booking offered, some or all of these factors seemingly come into play in the evaluation process. I would guess that for me the most rewarding work has been installation or multi-media in nature. I've done music for 3 short computer animation pieces (2 in 1986 for the Cranston- Csuri lab at Ohio State: "The Blue Chair" and "Images"), and these works have received far more exposure than any other solo work I've done(paid better too). Gallery gigs are nice in that you're not the sole focus of attention, which I believe allows people an opportunity to suspend their disbelief about anything to do with your "playing" or technique, and get on with enjoying the installation as a whole. The standard coffeehouse crowd has been kind of a mixed bag, it varies greatly due to factors you can't always readily discern (the ambient noise factor from food and drink prepar- ation will have a direct effect on your choice of dynamics). I would also add that Paul Mimlitsch's recent suggestion to allow audience members to join you on stage and "in loop" , as to improve your relationship with the crowd, is in my experience a very bad tact to take, and will only serve to lessen any respect as a performer you may have managed to establish (assuming it's your gig and not "open stage-loop jam night"). As a rule people's perceptions of modern music is jaded at best, and your sitting there amidst your boxes and cables seems to antagonize the "shut up and play yur guitar" mentality that is bound to be present to some degreee ( no disrespect meant to Frank Z.). All these observations are subjective ,and currently nerve racking in that I am actively contemplating a series of live performances. However the sage advice on this matter is that of Robert Fripp, who would probably suggest that you book a gig in the toughest place in town, so as to get on with your development as a musician, no excuses. If you're intuitive enough to figure out what the audience actually wants and how they hear your music, then you would be better off fiscally to channel that level of insight towards picking a few winning lottery numbers. I'm not discouraged, just realistic about the only species on the planet with the money to buy the tickets (or recordings). Bryan Helm Loop, Looper, Loopist From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 12:52:50 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 12:24:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmOou-0006M1-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:24:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199707101804.LAA00847@gw1.bi-tech.com> From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Loopist --> Venues Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:57:14 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vJYxTC.A.QBF.ESTxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:24:04 -0700 X-UIDL: e793c8bc0179d6731805eb21316d75ae > From: Sarajane > In response to Chris Chovit's post regarding past venue success, > and in particular his inquiry as to what gigs seemed to work best > for me: Well... I don't know how one would gauge the relative My best experience performing loopmusic was last summer during the green show for Shakespeare In The Park (a local theater company). The setting was perfect.....nice cool summer evening, beautiful park, and people from many different backgrounds (okay...they all like Shakespeare) spread out on the grass, some eating, some talking, some listening. I played a variety of different loop textures...some with melodic lead hooks, others without. The response was positive...people clapped and a number approached me after the show with questions and comments. "That was so relaxing." "This setting is perfect for your music." "What do you call it?" "How do you do that? "Do you use a keyboard?" Etc., etc., etc. Matt From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 15:12:15 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 14:53:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmR9D-0003nU-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:53:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:04:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970710140414_-1057973449@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping on the computer Resent-Message-ID: <"cnOmrC.A.4QD.ckVxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:53:11 -0700 X-UIDL: d3721fb2a0f287fd68dd0f5faa58e36d ...an old thread, but: anyone interested in real-time computer-based delay/sampling who's also got a ppc or fast '68 mac w/Audiomedia and a lot of ram should investigate Hyperprism from Arboretum Systems. All of Hyperprism's fx are realtime in thru-mode, and there are several delay algorithms, with delay times based on assigned ram. dpc From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 15:12:14 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 14:46:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmR30-00035a-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:46:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:41:46 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970710174145_-1091839932@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Loopist Resent-Message-ID: <"85aHuC.A.yeC.TdVxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:46:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 176c2fed648d53c5d033857f8a40b379 Bryan wrote<< I would also add that Paul Mimlitsch's recent suggestion to allow audience members to join you on stage and "in loop" , as to improve your relationship with the crowd, is in my experience a very bad tact to take, and will only serve to lessen any respect as a performer you may have managed to establish (assuming it's your gig and not "open stage-loop jam night").>> This suggestion was by way of providing an educational experience and not some kind of "free for all whoever wants to come up on stage can" type of thing. The specific scenario where this took place was as follows.-- I sometimes go to a small local coffeehouse during slow times, such as a Sunday afternoon, and do the ambient fly on the wall type thing for prcatice purposes and to try out new things. This particular establishment, being in a shopping mall, has more of a transient crowd, than say a place where people specifically go to see a "performance". Between doing some loops a kid and his mother came up and inquired about the Chapman Stick I was playing. The discussion progressed to looping and the inevitable "how do you get those sounds?" questions. After some explanation I let her son initiate the tap function on the Jman and took it from there. During my explanation/demonstration to the mother/son about 15 people who had just stopped by to pick up coffee between shopping forays had gathered and instead of getting back to their shopping decided to hang out for another 45 minutes or so and listen/ask questions. So what had started as a simple practice session turned out to be a quite satisfying experience for both "the performer" and the "audience". You could say that initially neither I nor they had planned on taking on the role of performer or audience had it not been for "the kid". You're correct though.. this would not be a good idea in a true "performance" setting for the reasons you mention.--Paul From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 15:12:13 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 14:46:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmR2Y-00032m-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:46:18 -0700 Message-ID: <33C55750.62A5@on-ramp.ior.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:42:40 -0700 From: erik reid simpson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re: record stores References: <19970616010042015.AAA183@Default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9c3d1B.A.sbC.9cVxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:46:18 -0700 X-UIDL: af455f923b790d70b0af4c6cdc1f36b5 > well if you are going to pay $20 for a CD, "Polytown" is one that is worth > it,,i have found alot of good CD deals from ordering online,,,i mean some > hard to find used and new ones, our little local world music etc CD store > went belly up due to the effects of a Blockbuster music opening about a > block away,,,Blockbuster is slack,and expensive,,,of course i dont eat at > Mcdonalds either, why pay someone to poison my body and mind with > mediocrity? i am capable of doing that myself. > james rhodes I am in total agreement with this point of view. While i would prefer to give my business to local shops, sometimes they just can't seem to find what i am looking for. I will shop the chain stores on occasion, but have no great loyalty to them. Online and mailorder are definite alternatives. I found a couple Nels Cline discs i couldn't find elsewhere through an online outfit called Soundwire (who, sadly, just closed up shop) and a couple discs on the em:t label through Etherworld. Cd Now isn't likely going anywhere soon, however, and they have alot of stuff (but not everything). Siren disc has a good selection of import stuff, in particular, at decent prices. The Artists House has an incredible selection of independent, often artist-run labels. And many labels do online/mailorder themselves; DGM, Ralph and, yes, Alchemy (hi Jon) among many others. I have personally done business at one time or another with every company I have listed above with excellent results across the board. The main drawback is that you don't get the instant gratification of plunking down your money and taking the disc(s) home to listen to right away. But given the battle for my "disposable income" (real or imagined, and with 2 teenage sons, imagined is much more likely), I would rather spend it on something I actively desire rather than something that merely SEEMS interesting. Anyway, back to lurking. Bye; Erik Simpson eriks@on-ramp.ior.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 15:12:15 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 14:57:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmRDe-0004NR-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:57:46 -0700 Message-ID: <33C55831.3D8A@vtx.ch> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:46:25 +0200 From: Claude Voit Reply-To: c.voit@vtx.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: No more echoplex in Switzerland *HELP* References: <199707101804.LAA00847@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6sz3yC.A.ltD.coVxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:57:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 72ac81aad8f8802d9882815730ce9f14 Hello everybody I've been following your postings for a while waiting for my plex pro to land in my favorite shop until I got the scary news No more plex distibution in Switzerland would you send me some USA shops adresses where some of you had good experiences overseas shipping, cool prices, service etc... is $650 a normal price ? anyone's doing better ? Shops proposals OK thank You Claude Voit Email: c.voit@vtx.ch From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 15:12:16 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 15:03:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmRJI-00050E-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:03:36 -0700 Message-ID: <33C5783F.514F621B@interaccess.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:03:11 -0700 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: record stores X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19970616010042015.AAA183@Default> <33C55750.62A5@on-ramp.ior.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M81CDB.A.mZE.1tVxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:03:36 -0700 X-UIDL: c39129c4c8ef1e8ea0e0e7ed1b428bb9 A brief comment on local record shops. I worked for one in Evanston, IL for a few years while in college, and though they did stock a decent selection of hard-to-find-items and imports, the selection is entirely dependent on who works there (and knows what to order), and what the owner thinks will sell, even though I've often talked to the owner and suggested he carry more of such-and-such. For my recent binges on ambient and acid jazz CDs, I mostly have had to resort to mail order (from Instinct and Soleilmoon). I think online-based mail-order offers the best deal for those looking for something out of the ordinary, particularly when the site offers sound clips of what they are selling. Labels that sell direct on the net also have more control over their prices. Jim erik reid simpson wrote: > I am in total agreement with this point of view. While i would prefer > to > give my business to local shops, sometimes they just can't seem to > find > what i am looking for. I will shop the chain stores on occasion, but > have no great loyalty to them. Online and mailorder are definite > alternatives. I found a couple Nels Cline discs i couldn't find > elsewhere through an online outfit called Soundwire (who, sadly, just > closed up shop) and a couple discs on the em:t label through > Etherworld. > Cd Now isn't likely going > anywhere soon, however, and they have alot of stuff (but not > everything). Siren disc has a good selection of import stuff, in > particular, at decent prices. The Artists House has an incredible > selection of independent, often artist-run labels. And many labels do > online/mailorder themselves; DGM, Ralph and, yes, Alchemy (hi Jon) > among > many others. I have personally done business at one time or another > with > every company I have listed above with excellent results across the > board. The main drawback is that you don't get the instant > gratification > of plunking down your money and taking the disc(s) home to listen to > right away. But given the battle for my "disposable income" (real or > imagined, and with 2 teenage sons, imagined is much more likely), I > would rather spend it on something I actively desire rather than > something that merely SEEMS interesting. Anyway, back to lurking. > > Bye; > > Erik Simpson > eriks@on-ramp.ior.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 21:10:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 17:58:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmU2w-0001v1-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:58:54 -0700 Message-ID: <33C584A3.A6628116@wsdesigns.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:56:11 -0700 From: Warren Sirota Reply-To: wsirota@wsdesigns.com Organization: WS Designs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Whaddya call it? and Attention X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MzAH6D.A.OiB.FSYxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:58:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 93999e7a03ed370e34f0cabdf9b98f3c Hi. I've really enjoyed scanning the discussion about what to call this kind of music. I think it touches on many important issues. I recently did a performance on a friend's regional live theater/radio show - Van Williamson's "Radio From Downtown", in the DelMarVa (Delaware, Maryland, Virgina) area. It's kind of a "Prarie Home Companion" radio variety show, localized for the eastern shore of Maryland and environs. It's a 2-hour show done in a live theater with about 125 people in the audience, which is then broadcast on local public radio and cable access stations. The centerpiece is a humorous radio play written by Van and performed in classic style, with about 10 performers plus foley and recorded sound effects. Anyway, I had 2 slots of about 8 minutes each. In the first one, I only had 4 minutes after the intro and kibbutzing. So I played one short funky blues "naked" (I think it works best to prove that you can play ungadgeted guitar and getting the doubt out of the way before jumping into deeper waters). Then I played a little piece which I call Simplicity which is just noodling over a jazzy Fm vamp - I used the guitar synth to lay down the bass line first, then add the usual hi-hat cliche riff, then improvise. I like to break people in gently to the technology - they have a bit of natural resistance to technology in music, for some reason. In the second half, I came back with the big piece. I've got a piece called "I Woke Up", which starts off as a text piece (I build up a poem in the loop in a way that keeps everyone guessing what the next syllable will be), then transforms as I put the text+other sounds loop through a pitch shifter/delay controlled by my MIDI guitar. Then I play big masses of sound with my guitar, but with no guitar sound for a while. Eventually I stop. Anyway, "I Woke Up" twisted some heads around - lots of people with jaws dropped down to the ground. Many comments were like: "It was incredible, but I wouldn't call it music." People had a hard time calling it music. Maybe it isn't music. I would describe my musical and extra-musical activities in general as "the manipulation of attention through sound", however, that also describes radio, so it's too broad. (BTW, if you want to keep people's attention, try working language into your pieces somehow. We're very wired to respond to that). In this theater performance, I asked to be billed as a "Sound Sculptor". I also considered going for "Performance Artist". ********************************************** Now some responses to earlier comments: > Bryan Helm wrote: > > >I think about it ,my last live gig was 2 years ago this coming > >October for an > >artist's reception at a gallery in Denver. Art gallery or museum openings and events are the most logical venue for this kind of thing. I'm not exactly sure why (Does it seem to anyone else that the visual arts community is more open to individual expression, abstraction and primitivism than are the music listeners?) I did a friend's gallery opening a few months ago - just me, guitar synth, Echoplex and free improvisation. It was perfect, and people loved it. I also did a bunch of truly "out there" improvisations (midi loop-based, when I was relying on my GTM-6 controller for loops) at a big Halloween mega art-fest in SF some years ago. Chris Chovit said: > But what audiences are available for us loopers? > Well, that is the question we have to answer, and in part, I think we > have > to CREATE our own situations and audiences. Agreed. We also need to *write pieces*. Improvisation is great and wonderful, but people invariably respond to the more dramatic pacing and sense of organization that planning can create. > That is, we need to find out > what works, and build upon that until....maybe some day....we will be > playing LOOPAPOLOOZA's (that's a great one, Bryan!) or filling > stadiums for > loop performances. I don't think I can dream that big. > IMHO, looping devices are good for the following functions/settings: > > 1. Inner reflection ... > > 2. Performer -- audience interaction. ... > 3. As Bryan, suggested, combining sounds with other mediums, perhaps > even > having them "interact" with each other. > > 4. Installation settings, where the music is not the prime focus. #4 could be interpreted to apply to live performances in restaurants, museums and at cocktail parites (but be sure to not get too weird in the restaurant!). I'd add5. web pages 6. cd-roms 7. computer desktops. -- Yours truly, Warren Sirota http://wsdesigns.com/wsirota/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 10 21:10:13 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 10 19:54:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmVqj-0000td-00; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:54:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:47:51 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Saw In-Reply-To: <970710100005196@tmbsbbs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QaVHHC.A.og.T-Zxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:54:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d19a5ef4f7a01f8e68bb309f2f30243 On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Sarajane wrote: > (the latter features Soundscapes also). For my money the most > dissapointing work in public release by Fripp is the Soundscapes Live > in Argentina CD....don't get me started. Oh, on the contrary, please do start! I personally really like the Argentina album, and can't listen to _A Blessing of Tears_ for more than a few minutes. I'd be very interested in hearing a different point of view. So much for BEYOND FRIPP... But hey, it's been a while since we had a full-bore Frippathon, and it beats mulling over the finer points of SIMM memory. --Andre From ???@??? Fri Jul 11 02:58:07 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 11 01:56:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmbUw-0003OI-00; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:56:18 -0700 Message-Id: <29938.199707110853@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:53:36 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Re: Loopist Resent-Message-ID: <"9DD8t.A.gCD.gSfxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:56:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 9ecab24e7f4dccd9126a4f940646fcce Paul: >Between doing some loops a kid and >his mother came up and inquired about the Chapman Stick I was playing. The >discussion progressed to looping and the inevitable "how do you get those >sounds?" questions. After some explanation I let her son initiate the tap >function on the Jman and took it from there. >You're correct though.. this would not be a good idea in a true "performance" >setting for the reasons you mention.--Paul Didn't Roobert Fripp (anyone heard of him? :) ) start peices on the Frippertronics tour by asking members of the audience to randomly call out the first few notes? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes *A.C. Electrokinetics - - Viral Manipulation Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 *Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 *University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. From ???@??? Fri Jul 11 02:58:08 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 11 02:09:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmbhS-0004I7-00; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:09:14 -0700 Message-Id: <170.199707110906@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:06:49 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Whaddya call it? and Attention Resent-Message-ID: <"XIOrW.A.50D.1efxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:09:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 23a2313ea5e9a36fca6ed0d705022a39 Warren: >Anyway, "I Woke Up" twisted some heads around - lots of people with jaws >dropped down to the ground. Many comments were like: "It was incredible, >but I wouldn't call it music." People had a hard time calling it music. >Maybe it isn't music. >In this theater performance, I asked to be billed as a "Sound Sculptor". >I also considered going for "Performance Artist". Works for Laurie Anderson. Has she ever been categorised some other way? >Chris Chovit said: > >> But what audiences are available for us loopers? >> Well, that is the question we have to answer, and in part, I think we >> have >> to CREATE our own situations and audiences. > >Agreed. We also need to *write pieces*. Improvisation is great and >wonderful, but people invariably respond to the more dramatic pacing and Absolutely. There's also a great deal of satisfaction from writing a peice. It seems to me that improvisation is often an excuse for not learning material! :) The argument I've heard is that only through improv can we see the soul of the performer, but in speech we can often put our most profound thoughts across when given time to reflect and put them down on paper, rather than standing up and just talking. I'l also bet the most moving poetry is not, by-and-large, written off the cuff (please, no-one mention James Joyce). Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes *A.C. Electrokinetics - - Viral Manipulation Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 *Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907 *University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 02:44:31 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 11 15:16:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmnzg-00043P-00; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:16:52 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199707112211.PAA02540@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:11:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LGxqXC.A.xWD.f-qxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:16:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 4fd27b48d447a39fe603959852dcd2b7 In response to: <> During the 70s Fripp made extensive use of the EML Synthi; a primitive synthesizer that accepts an analog input. Fripp plugged his guitar into this device to get the synth-like sound used in his 70s/early 80s Frippertronics. Pete Cosey may have used this device on one or more of the famous live albums he recorded with Miles Davis in the early 70s. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 02:44:32 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 11 16:32:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmpAk-000233-00; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:32:22 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:29:19 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: loopness monster Resent-Message-ID: <"nYsWPB.A.CuB.iHsxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/18 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:32:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 83a1bc4351dffbdfc6f1a88c10eb28c6 Chris said a lot of nice things: >However, there were many people in the crowd (loud, obnoxious, >beer-drinking types) who could not stand there and listen to such sounds. >They kept shouting "Come on, lets have a jam -- play some songs". I refuse to play in places where people consume beer. >...if you are standing in front of them with an electric >guitar, they expect you to break out a blues jam or at least some display >of "technique" or "music" that they are familiar with. When I still played in bars, I sometimes looped a blues, which clearly was one, but really different, especially toards the end... >For a performance to >succeed (from both the performer's and the audience's perspective) the >music must be appropriate for that particular time, place, situation, AND >audience. ...even more so, when you call it "ambient". I say in my release folder, that I adapt my music to the place and vibes each time, but the truth is, that for many places and vibes, I do not manage to adapt anc better leave it. >a typical rock audience. But what audiences are available for us loopers? >Well, that is the question we have to answer, and in part, I think we have >to CREATE our own situations and audiences. That is, we need to find out >what works, and build upon that until....maybe some day....we will be >playing LOOPAPOLOOZA's (that's a great one, Bryan!) or filling stadiums for >loop performances. That is, perhaps, sound spaces will become a standard >of expectation among certain audeiences. Yes, I recorded "traveling music" in the bus station (there is no such thing as street musician here), played in a church on saturday - the things I love! But there are not suficiant such oportunities here, I will have to invent more. I thought of prison, hospital, old peoples home (how do you call that?)... >This leads me to question what the FUNCTION(s) of loop music is.......In >any case, the rock concert performed a >function -- and it seems to me that this was initially driven, or at least >facilitated by the TECHNOLOGY. You mean we are about at the point where The Who came in: The technology was available and the function was invented or came out of the history of the society. Loop technology is available and we are discussing its purpose. The Who probably did not discuss it as we do, but this makes part of the changes of history. >IMHO, looping devices are good for the following functions/settings: ... We have a new idea here which is called JantArte (Jantar means supper). We invite for a chinese veg meal (body), a speach (mind) and a artistic presentation (soul), pillows on the floor. It will happen monthly in the Centro de Cultura Chinesa. I will tell you how it goes. Is that New-Agey? >Put me down for 2 of the hand-held, portable loopers! Oh yeah, I spend a lot of thought and dreams for those. It will happen in a few years! From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 02:44:38 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 11 19:58:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmsNo-00002t-00; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:58:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:52:56 -0400 (EDT) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970711225256_-1944376583@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: "Let the Flower Eat Paul"... Resent-Message-ID: <"IJs2m.A.AFH.GHvxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/19 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:58:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 522b9e266b596867c1b2522ffabe51a0 ...was the title of an early non-masterpiece, by *moi*... Other titles of my early loop attempts, also inspired by LTPF, include - "Let the Flounder Plummet" "Let the Power Fizzle" "Frippoff" & (after I found No Pussyfooting) "The Heavenly Music Mutilation". They were all inspired and flawed enough to work well as both homages-to and satires-of RF. Envision lovely floating waves of liquid guitar a la LTPF, interrupted every few minutes by a (looped) mistake, like this - Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! Works great for getting battle plans out of POWs much better than fingernails on blackboards, or other crude methods like that. Anyway - After awhile I embraced my incompetence and came up with things more along the lines of "An Index of Metals" after being thrown in a blender, including such unknown classics as "Bewtixt the Electrons", "Seas of Mercury", and "No Gain, No Pain". A bit like being thrown in a wind tunnel filled with iron filings. (I think about half of the tape was power tools being held up to the pickups). My favorite thing about all these silly recordings (which actually are pretty cool in many places and I love them dearly) is that I did them on reel-to-reel tape, so they sound oddly authentic, like Fripp was really playing these, but after someone had dropped a safe on his hands and injected him with novacane. I have never been able to re-create that sound since I got better gear and practiced a lot. Now, for some reason, the new stuff sounds like shit in some ways when compared to the old stuff, the old just seems to have unique qualities about it that seem to have been lost in the new. Dexterity limitations and funky gear give you so much built-in restraint in a way (something that most guitarists don't have naturally) and with chops and a big-ass amp comes the-guitarist-won't-shut-up syndrome, or something. (At least I have that problem, which I just decided to call premature Riff-jaculation). Any other indulgent Fripp "Tribute" recordings out there? Anyone ever tried to fool their friends with one, and gotten away with it? (I have, though I'm not entirely sure how)! (All rights reserved on the above titles, even if they are stupid!) Pete PS - Can anyone spell out any of their favorite loops phonetically, like a comic-book sound effect word, like I just did, above? (That's a great way to waste five minutes, and you can get some amusing results...) From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 02:44:39 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 11 22:51:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmv5s-0001Bv-00; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:51:44 -0700 Message-ID: <33C71A65.824BCC57@gte.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:47:17 -0400 From: future perfect X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Pet the Shower Stall X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970711225256_-1944376583@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"onQTrD.A._3.Iqxxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/20 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:51:44 -0700 X-UIDL: d4ac20b0cb19e4833f6d6a376df7fc4c > > Any other indulgent Fripp "Tribute" recordings out there? Anyone ever tried > to fool their friends with one, and gotten away with it? (I have, though I'm > not entirely sure how)! I recorded one a few years ago called 'Continue..As If Nothing Happened'. It was 20 minutes of me playing with a 25 second reverb, with no direct signal. I overdubbed an insanely distorted Ebow on the top, and actually fooled a few of my friends. Dave -- ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 02:44:41 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 00:21:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmwUn-0004jC-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:21:33 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:10:54 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Echoplex oddness check: Any volunteers? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MjZgsC.A.RJE.N7yxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/21 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:21:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 15fa4445b621d8861a77fe1f00700fcd Hi gang -- I'm experiencing some strangeness with my Echoplex, and am wondering if any other users out there could check to see how much of the problem is a general Echoplex trait and how much of it is my own unit. The problem is this: When notes are faded into or out of silence, I'm noticing a grainy digital aliasing-type noise which occurs as the fade-in or -out occurs. If I watch the Input LED, this noise coincides with a flickering of that indicator. Two strange(r) things: If I enter mute mode, this noise is present just as loudly as when there's a loop running. Secondly, when the input/loop balance knob is turned all the way to either extreme, the noise disappears; it is only audible when there's some mixture of loop and direct signal. It's possible that this has always been there and I've never noticed it before, but I'd like to try and check. I have noticed some digital artifacts in the past, but what I'm hearing seems too pronounced for it to have eluded my detection for a year and a half. Furthermore, the artifacts I've previously noticed are (presumably) due to the diminished volume at the beginning or end of these sorts of notes, and the accompanying loss of resolution which is endemic to the digital realm. But since this noise is only noticable under certain circumstances, I don't think it's a question of the preliminary input signal passing through the A/D converters; it just about has to be something in the post-sampling side of the signal flow. (I've been noticing some pops when I turn the input/loop knob, so it's possible that it's a problem with my unit). If anyone out there has the time and inclination to check their own units to see if they notice this characteristic, I'd be very grateful for any feedback. Technical details: I'm plugging a guitar directly into the Echoplex, which is run directly into a clean mixer; in other words, no processing before or after the looper. Also, the noise diminishes and eventually disappears as the texture of the loop takes on a more continuous sound floor, but as long as there are points in which the sound fades either into or out of more or less complete silence, the digital noise (which I can best describe as being akin to someone sucking liquid through a straw) is there. I appreciate any feedback people can provide. Thanks in advance, --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 02:44:42 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 01:28:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmxXR-0007AN-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:28:21 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:23:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Sustain and music? Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sB6dq.A._jG.b8zxz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/22 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:28:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 00ff192f8eb561546ce83cb7efdcfc61 >Paolo said > >When I get around to recording the ethno/electronica/jazz/you-name-it >music in my mind, I think I'll call my music "rock" too. ^_^ > >Well I wish we could just say "music". pffiuuww. > >By the way, I ve lost the mail address of these nice people making the new >sustainiac system. Iif someone could send it to me, that would be very >nice. > >And now let us try the "Coue" method: >I have an echoplex I have an echoplex I have an echoplex I have an >echoplex I have an echoplex I have an echoplex I have an echoplex I have >an echoplex I have an echoplex I have an echoplex > >Darn >did not work. > >Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 02:44:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 01:45:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmxo8-00008R-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:45:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex pedal Message-ID: <19970712.043709.8263.8.JesseKudler@juno.com> References: <970709175201_409644312@emout14.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-27 From: jessekudler@juno.com (Jesse G Kudler) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:39:58 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"uDXzqC.A.hPH.JM0xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/23 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:45:36 -0700 X-UIDL: bf8e4fbe16b3fee64b075bcb295baa68 A music store today told me that they were getting a continuous control pedal from Lexicon directly for $30. Does this is exist or was the music store guy confused? -Jesse On Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:52:08 -0400 (EDT) SoundFNR@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 05/07/97 8:31:278:23, you write: > >> As mentioned, the Roland EV5 is a good expression pedal, but for >> some reason Roland charge a ridiculous amount of money for them >> ( here in the UK , about 75.00pounds ). I recently came across an >> Italian company, Promoel ( or Pro-Moel ? ) who make an exp pedal >> just like the Ev5, and they cost about 35.00. I bought one for my >> Vortex and it works as well as the EV5. >> There may be others, best place to check is keyboard/synth >specialist >> dealers. > >Also Bespeco( another bunch of Italians) make the VM 18-L for about >the same. >Includes switch to reverse pedal action & built in lead. >Vortexes fine. >Andy (UK) > > > From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 09:40:47 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 03:57:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wmzs7-0005ej-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 03:57:51 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970712065440_681009367@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall Resent-Message-ID: <"OaomYC.A.ENF.tK2xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/24 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 03:57:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 2d4b2a68853fb5df1ebe58464fb867ad In a message dated 97-07-12 04:10:52 EDT, you write: << During the 70s Fripp made extensive use of the EML Synthi; a primitive synthesizer that accepts an analog input. Fripp plugged his guitar into this device to get the synth-like sound used in his 70s/early 80s Frippertronics. >> Thanks for the good info - Would you happen to know how extensively these devices were manufactured, and are re-issues still being made by EML, as the VCS3 still is? Was it a megbucks gizmo for back then? Is it now a megabucks antique? (No wonder I couldn't get that tone quite right...) Thanks Pete From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 09:40:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 07:55:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn3Zy-0006qE-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:55:22 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707121451.KAA05831@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Let The Power Saw Resent-Message-ID: <"FL4A0D.A.JTG.Lp5xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/25 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:55:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 21278c69ebaa204c4f29ee3847297878 If you want to hear him (Fripp) shred on disc I would recommend the aforementioned live League of Gentlemen CD or the live Sylvian/Fripp Band CD "Damage" (the latter features Soundscapes also). For my money the most >dissapointing work in public release by Fripp is the Soundscapes Live > in Argentina CD....don't get me started.--Bryan Helm/Techno Primitve Tantrum Boy thanks Brayn - i've always wondered about the Sylvian -Fripp discs - not much mention of them here... but on your wordz i think i'll pick it up...today i have a spree planned, so... But i agree on the sounscapes live discs - i have 2 or 3 of 'em (does it matter) and i too am dissapointed - they make good background going to sleep type discs but there's a million bad new age discs that can do that. excellent package, liner notes (awesome!!) great quality, but... boring. Sorry RF, love you & yer work but... play some notes! i guess for me - i could do the same sleepy, simple synth washes thru echo for 45 mins... part of my attraction to RF's music is the amazing unreachability (for me) of it in a technical sense... anyway - he rules and many artists out out a couple duds i guess (except for zappa) peace and loop away you freaks andre' (nj) > > > From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 12:47:47 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 10:53:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn6M5-0006qn-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:53:13 -0700 Message-Id: <16322.199707121750@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:50:16 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pycraft Hughes, PhD) Subject: Re: Let The Power Saw Resent-Message-ID: <"WA8PDD.A.RSG.5P8xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/26 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:53:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 9fda71559d114bbbd4f7a2b33957153e Bryan: >> If you want to hear him (Fripp) shred on disc I would recommend the >>aforementioned live League of Gentlemen CD or the live Sylvian/Fripp Band CD >>"Damage" (the latter features Soundscapes also). NJ N'Dre: >thanks Bryan - i've always wondered about the Sylvian -Fripp discs - not >much mention of them here... but on your wordz i think i'll pick it >up...today i have a spree planned, so... I only have The First Day, but it is something of a classic, certainly better than recent KC stuff... probably the best example, to me, of what can be achieved with looping is the long (6 min!) play-out solo on "Firepower"; if he'd wanted he could have looped the bassline too, so I just look at it as a looper and a drummer. A classic. The playout Frippertronics solo peice is neat, having the advantage of being relatively short and retaining its novelty value. A great album. "Firepower" is also a great track for inducing a desire of Sustainer systems... Michael /-------------------------------------------------------------------\ |Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes | Tel:0141 330 5979 | Fax: 0141 330 4907 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |Bioelectronics, Rankine Bldg, Glasgow University, Glasgow, G12 8QQ | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | http://www.elec.gla.ac.uk/groups/bio/Electrokinetics/main.html | \-------------------------------------------------------------------/ From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 12:47:48 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 11:04:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn6X0-0007Fl-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:04:30 -0700 Message-ID: <33C7C6BC.2BFD3ED@wsdesigns.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:02:38 -0700 From: Warren Sirota Reply-To: wsirota@wsdesigns.com Organization: WS Designs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: A couple of responses X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YPaX1D.A.UsG.1a8xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:04:30 -0700 X-UIDL: e07e30d0f3128a9aa272fc78deec5dab > I wrote > >In this theater performance, I asked to be billed as a "Sound > Sculptor". > >I also considered going for "Performance Artist". > And Michael replied > Works for Laurie Anderson. Has she ever been categorised some other > way? > Yeah, but she was never a guitar (semi-)virtuoso with a guitar virtuoso ego and identity to deal with. But perhaps it's time to shelve some of that... Anyway, I wouldn't characterise some of her records as performance art - most of them fall into the "intellectual rock" category, in my book (e.g. Strange Angels, Mr. Heartbreak). The Mr. Heartbreak tour, with Adrian Belew et. al, which I was privileged to attend a show of, was a multimedia rock show with performance art elements. > More from Michael: > Absolutely. There's also a great deal of satisfaction from writing a > peice. It seems to me that improvisation is often an excuse for not > learning material! :) Or, for me, for not writing it! > The argument I've heard is that only through improv can we see the > soul of > the performer, but in speech we can often put our most profound > thoughts > across when given time to reflect and put them down on paper, rather > than > standing up and just talking. I'l also bet the most moving poetry is > not, > by-and-large, written off the cuff (please, no-one mention James > Joyce). > Well, I love improvisation, and loop-based improv is especially hypnotizing. I agree with the quote that it can (at least sometimes) give us a window into the performer's soul. However, that is only of concern to certain niche audiences. Most prefer an "entertainment experience", which means tighter structure, clean transitions and attention to pacing. Sometimes I want to cater to this and sometimes not. > Chris said: > >This leads me to question what the FUNCTION(s) of loop music > is.......In > >any case, the rock concert performed a > >function -- and it seems to me that this was initially driven, or at > least > >facilitated by the TECHNOLOGY. > Matthias responded: > You mean we are about at the point where The Who came in: The > technology > was available and the function was invented or came out of the history > of > the society. Loop technology is available and we are discussing its > purpose. The Who probably did not discuss it as we do, but this makes > part > of the changes of history. > The Who's function was nothing new - to provide music for dancing, mainly so that young single people could engage in pre-mating rituals. Providing music for dancing is a pretty ancient social function. All the Who did was make it louder and more closely tied in to the chemicals raging in teenagers' bodies, something that Elvis and his musical progenitors also did in spades. The only aspect of the Who's technology that was innovative was their view of it as disposable and their choreography. (BTW, I was a serious Who fan in the early days and still respect and enjoy their music. That's not the point here). > We have a new idea here which is called JantArte (Jantar means > supper). We > invite for a chinese veg meal (body), a speach (mind) and a artistic > presentation (soul), pillows on the floor. It will happen monthly in > the > Centro de Cultura Chinesa. I will tell you how it goes. > Is that New-Agey? > That sounds like a good setting. Creating the setting is a great thing. Perhaps loop music can work as an analogue to dance music for older people (is anyone on this list under 25?) Whereas rock (functionally speaking) is pre-mating music for social rituals among young single people, maybe loop music can occur in situations which encourage social interaction (which is frequently rather limited) among mature, working adults who may have families - maybe there's a new kind of social ritual that could be created around this. Warren Sirota -------------------------------------------------------- Netscape Navigator users: access to your favorite Web sites with a single keystroke: http://wsdesigns.com/sextant/ Windows musicians: learn songs and solos from any audio CD: http://wsdesigns.com/presto/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 13 00:53:32 1997 >From kflint Fri Sep 12 12:01:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0x9axr-00019S-00; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:01:11 -0700 Message-ID: <33C7D269.19664F98@ccnet.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:52:25 -0700 From: Roland Eberle Reply-To: roland@ccnet.com Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: upgrading the Jamman X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"P0ZqhD.A.VX.P-YG0"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/496 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:01:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 6a0a22ec9a55b4ca99e53b55842da714 > . I'll have some time this > evening to install them. Any words of advice before I go at it? Indeed!... The hardest part by far is opening the damn case...be very careful not to strip the screw heads or your in for a major hassle...use a short screwdriver with as big a handle (diameter) as you can find...you'll need lots of torque but TURN SLOWLY. the rest is a peice of cake.. enjoy. > Thanks in advance! -Tom > > * "New music:new listening" -John Cage * tbickley@artswire.org From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 12:47:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 12:42:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn83V-0004W3-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:42:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:39:02 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970712153901_41385357@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall Resent-Message-ID: <"HPNSMB.A.lAE.X29xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:42:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 8de3877a6753a32248f5eea9f308fb99 In a message dated 7/12/97 1:04:29 PM, you wrote: << Thanks for the good info - Would you happen to know how extensively these devices were manufactured, and are re-issues still being made by EML, as the VCS3 still is? Was it a megbucks gizmo for back then? Is it now a megabucks antique? >> Actually, the company is called EMS (Electronic Music Systems) and is/was an English company. They made a few different products, but none in huge quantities. I own a Synthi AKS (not for sale) which was similar to the VCS3 but came in a small kind of plastic suitcase. It also came with a keyboard (no moving parts) and a somewhat primitive but useful sequencer. All this fit inside the case. These were used by Tangerine Dream on the early (mid seventies) records like "Phaedra" and "Rubycon". Klaus Shulze used several and still does. Brian Eno also uses an AKS. He says they are the best for creating weird insect noises. Very true. You can make some incredibly weird noises with it. It's a little harder to play melodicly due to oscillator drift, but it can be done. There's lots of tweaking possibilities. I never did a real lot with external instruments being run thru it. This would give you access to the filters and modulation I believe. My AKS unfortunately needs help to put it back to spec. I believe there are people that do this, some associated with EMS, but I've not been able to get anyone to answer their phone or return messages. Not much of a confidence builder. If anyone out there has experience with any shops that know how to repair these, let me know. EMS still operates in England. Mostly, I think they refurbish old instruments to resell. I don't know prices tho. In the Keyboard Vintage Synthesizers book, they go into more detail about EMS and these synths. Let's see........they made about 550 VCS3's and 850 AKS's. (according to the book) and used ones seem to fetch anywhere from $300.00 to $1500.00. Jim (Portland,OR.) From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 16:35:01 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 12:55:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn8GE-0005N2-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:55:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:51:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SoundFNR@aol.com Message-ID: <970712155155_-1695032515@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Amplifiers for looping Resent-Message-ID: <"wLMuX.A.j4E.gC-xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:55:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 18320fdd686dbef1466cf853fab4cf1c Part One What makes a good amplification setup for loops in a live context ? (any recomendations?) Guitar amp for sound character. Or a PA type system to accurately produce a multi-layered effect. Stereo? Part Two How does the sound 'quality' effect what the player does with the loop? Andy (UK) From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 12:47:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 12:10:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn7Z4-0002mc-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:10:42 -0700 Message-Id: <9707128687.AA868734628@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 97 13:57:14 -0600 From: "mmason" To: Subject: Re: A couple of Responses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lmwGmB.A.hcC.nY9xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/28 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:10:42 -0700 X-UIDL: e53c8da75acc61a7db6ae5451eb9bab6 Warren Sirota Wrote > is anyone on this list under 25? I'm 15. Jay or Boris mmason@faulkcomp.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 16:35:02 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 14:02:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn9JG-0000dV-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:02:30 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:58:42 -0400 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: "Let the Flower Eat Paul"... To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199707121658_MC2-1ABA-F22C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"1M4m1D.A.Ie.aB_xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/31 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:02:30 -0700 X-UIDL: c59cf2d3d2d23b0a5bc70c4ded28a811 Pete said, >They were all inspired and flawed enough to work well as both homages-to and >satires-of RF. Envision lovely floating waves of liquid guitar a la LTPF, >interrupted every few minutes by a (looped) mistake, like this - >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! ROFL!!! ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm Support the Warr Guitar Defense Fund http://home.earthlink.net/~greendog/warrfund.html From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 16:35:02 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 14:32:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wn9mB-00023h-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:32:23 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:26:24 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Age...? In-Reply-To: <9707128687.AA868734628@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Kmtqk.A.7xB.Ud_xz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/32 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:32:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 9194ed4c42698866c4b59e55edcedb4b > Warren Sirota Wrote > > > is anyone on this list under 25? 23 as of this past Thursday... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 16:35:04 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 15:27:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnAdu-0004dj-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:27:54 -0700 X-Sender: illoyd@mail.intrlink.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:24:02 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespace) Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Resent-Message-ID: <"381GpB.A.IME.rRAyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/33 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:27:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 980a347f327941f008f6628d5bb34cbe >Part One > What makes a good amplification setup for loops in a >live context ? (any recomendations?) pretty much anything i guess... whatever gives you the sound you want. sure, you can run in stereo, but we've gone round and round about this on sound-l before... your choice as to whether on not its worth it to lug around dual setups. there are also the obvious splitting setups. a friend has the following: guitar -> fx pedals -> a/b/y splitter -> a side to amp / b-side to jamman di to the pa. >Part Two > How does the sound 'quality' effect what >the player does with the loop? huh? feedback... Ian///Shakespace www.intrlink.com/~illoyd From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 16:35:06 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 16:31:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnBdN-0007et-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:31:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970712182251.007341bc@texas.net> X-Sender: ranjones@texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:22:53 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, From: Randy Jones Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"l226ID.A._8G.kMByz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/34 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:31:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 50a938db43a2526566f18c438675b3ee At 01:57 PM 7/12/97 -0600, mmason wrote: > > > Warren Sirota Wrote > > > is anyone on this list under 25? > > I'm 15. > > Jay or Boris > mmason@faulkcomp.com > Hey I was 15 thirty three years ago. No one is older than me here!!! Randy Jones From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 17:36:06 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 17:11:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnCG1-0001ft-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:11:21 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: ANET@aol.com Message-ID: <970712200750_-1695011252@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Resent-Message-ID: <"UmBPzD.A.2ZB.RyByz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/35 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:11:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 4e819e1b0136c923b97936456747e7fa If you are using an Acoustic guitar, the Crate Amp is the finest on the market today. The model number is 125D, couple that with a martin thinline pickup and a jamman, se ya later, because everyone will space out when they hear your sound. Guaranteed. After playing the acoutisic thing for so long, I find that electric guitar amps are missing treble. What do I mean? Most electric guitar cabs don't run horns or piezo, so yes you can turn the tone on the start to treble and pump up the treble on the amp, but you do not get the overtones that an may be experienced on an acoustic with the setup listed above. In fact my son, played the strat through the Crate and preferred it. Good Luck. From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 17:53:52 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 17:43:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnCl4-0003P5-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:43:26 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33C7C6BC.2BFD3ED@wsdesigns.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:10:00 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: A couple of responses Resent-Message-ID: <"YJbsqC.A.N4C.vPCyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/36 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:43:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 009acfe6ad329426d9eaf824cb954788 > >That sounds like a good setting. Creating the setting is a great thing. >Perhaps loop music can work as an analogue to dance music for older >people (is anyone on this list under 25?) Whereas rock (functionally >speaking) is pre-mating music for social rituals among young single >people, maybe loop music can occur in situations which encourage social >interaction (which is frequently rather limited) among mature, working >adults who may have families - maybe there's a new kind of social ritual >that could be created around this. > >Warren Sirota 27 here, but still possessing a far greater preference for looping in pre-mating music for social rituals among young single people, preferably in noisy, crowded, alcohol-and-drug-laden environments with excessive volumes, as opposed to serene family oriented settings for mature adults...... The discussion about "What do we call it" is certainly interesting, but I think the "it" in question is not the whole of "loop music" but just the "ambient-experimental improvisations employing loops" category. "Loop music" includes a lot of other music, some of which even has well recognized names and well known and populated venues for its performance! resisting oppression by the ambient tyranny, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 17:53:53 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 17:44:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnClj-0003Sk-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:44:07 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:32:03 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! Resent-Message-ID: <"AeUQbD.A.A6C.4PCyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/37 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:44:07 -0700 X-UIDL: e47312d08c0d4929a6e4f6378d9f2029 At the NAMM show in Nashville this weekend, Oberheim is announcing a new software version for the Echoplex Digital Pro. It's called LoopIII V5.0, and will be shipping this month in new units and as upgrades for existing Echoplex owners. There are many, many improvements and enhancements over LoopIII V3.2, which has been shipping in the Echoplex for over two and a half years now. Many of you have been waiting a long time for this; the wait is finally over! I'm not sure what Oberheim's upgrade policy will be for this version, you should contact Oberheim or an Oberheim dealer for details. LoopIII V5.0 is created and developed by Aurisis Research, a company quietly formed six months ago by Matthias Grob, Eric Obermuhlner, and myself to continue developing the Loop(R) technology invented by Matthias years ago. This is our first big release as a company, and we are quite proud of it. LoopIII V5.0 represents a huge amount of effort in technical development, business negotiations, and evangelizing the possibilities to Gibson. It was a daunting task to say the least, but we now have a high quality software product in the Echoplex and a firm commitment to the product from Oberheim and Gibson. We would like to thank all the users whose enthusiasm for the Echoplex motivated and inspired us. We never would have made it without you! kim If you are interested, here is our release documentation, for LoopIII V5.0: ******************************************************* LoopIII version 5.0 >From Aurisis Research Who is Aurisis Research? Aurisis Research was founded by three music industry veterans to develop exciting new musical instrument technologies. We license these technologies to major manufacturers in the industry. Our primary products are real-time looping instruments. What is Loop(R) ? Loop, our centerpiece technology, is a real-time sampling and looping musical instrument. It encompasses an efficient and intuitive user interface allowing musicians to create, perform, and manipulate live loops in ways that have never been possible before. The revolutionary sampling functionality of Loop has redefined the art and technique of looping. Loop has been in development for over seven years, and can be found in the Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro and the Paradis LoopDelay. LoopIII is the third generation of the technology. Version 5.0 is the latest release. What is LoopIII version 5.0? Our goals for version 5.0 centered on playability. A good musical instrument is defined by the subtleties and nuance of playing it, and with this release we sought playing perfection for LoopIII. We made many enhancements and improvements to the existing functionality, to improve the playing experience with the Loop. All features that had been intended for the LoopIII function set have been implemented. In addition, we fixed every bug that has ever been reported to us, as well as many that no one ever found. Stability has been improved everywhere to insure that no musician is ever let down by the Loop. We did everything we could to make sure that Loop continues to be the preeminent looping tool and an excellent musical instrument in it's own right. We hope we've succeeded! *** NEW FEATURES *** *Loop Sound Copy* The long absent loop copy function arrives! This function allows the user to easily and intuitively copy his current loop into the next loop, during performance. When NextLoop is pressed to jump to a reset loop, the copy process begins. While copying, the loop continues to play, so the performance is seamless. Even better, during the copy, overdubs can be made on the new version! And just like the Multiply function, the new loop can be made to have as many multiples of the original as will fit in memory. With two button presses, you can take a one bar rhythm in loop 1 and turn it into a sixteen bar vamp in loop 2 with a melody recorded over the top! *Loop Time Copy* This function is very similar to the sound copy, but just copies the length. And, in the same fashion, you can overdub during the copy and create multiples of the original length. Keep your loops in a tight groove! *** PLAYABILITY ENHANCEMENTS *** *Improved Use of Memory* A fundamental change was made in the software architecture to fix the problems with Retriggering in cases where memory is low. Now we can retrigger loops that take the whole memory at any time. Before, when using retriggering functions like Mute-Insert, Mute-Undo, Mute-Multiply-Beat, Sample triggering with SamplerStyle = One and even syncing to external clocks, the retrigger would generally not work when the loop was longer than half the total memory available. This improvement is possible because we now do real-time "defragmentation" of the loops. We unify the fragmented loop! *Retriggering Improved* The Retriggering function, typically executed with Mute-Insert, has been rebuilt. It is now protected from interference from Overdub and Feedback, and is generally far more reliable when used along with Reverse and Undo. Once the loop has been triggered, repeated pressing of Insert retriggers the sample for stuttering effects, rather than going into Reverse or Insert. *MIDI Sample Triggering Improved* The entire function for MIDI sample triggering had to be rebuilt. It is now considerably more consistent and usable. Changes are: - The volume is now corrected when the switching is executed. This fixed problems where the volume setting for a loop would be retained from previous switching, especially when the SamplerStyle or Velocity parameters had been changed. - The velocity of a midi trigger now sets the volume relative to the volume set by midi continuous control. So the Continuous Controller set by VolumeCont now serves as a master volume. - The switching is fully dependent on SwitchQuant. So, for example, if SwitchQuant is set to Cycle and a midi trigger is received, the new loop will not start until the current one reaches its end. Setting SwitchQuant to Off makes it behave most like a Sampler. - If Velocity=off, and SamplerStyle=Att, the key switches between full volume and silence. This fixed problems where loops would play with the volume completely off or at a setting from a previous switch's velocity value. Now if Velocity is turned off, the loops always play at a consistent volume. - If Velocity=on, the velocity is used to set volume independently of the setting of SamplerStyle. - NextLoop now always plays the loops at full volume. Before it would play them at volumes set previously by midi loop triggers, which was confusing. It is now independent of the settings and usage of SamplerStyle and Velocity. *Exiting from Quantize* Its easy now to get out of the quantizing (ooo) state. Just press the same key again and the function happens immediately. This might be useful if you normally Quantize but as an exception do not want to wait for the end of the current cycle, or if an expected sync signal does arrive. Additionally, Undo will cancel the impending function and the quantized wait state, returning you to where you were before. *Improved MIDI Clock Sync* The Echoplex's ability to synchronize itself to midi clocks has been substantially improved. This was achieved through a combination of bug fixes, internal parameter adjustments, and complete rewrites of some software functions. The Echoplex stays locked to the midi clock source far more reliably than it did before. It used to have trouble when the clock drifted faster and the sync signals arrived early, especially when the loop was longer than half the memory size. That is no longer a problem. The Echoplex is also more tolerant of wider deviations in the midi clock. So if the clock source is drifting from its original rate, the Echoplex will continue to sync to it over a wider range. The amount of drift we allow in the clock before giving up is determined by an internal parameter, which we essentially doubled. If the clock has drifted beyond this range we assume it is intentional and the Echoplex stops trying to sync to it. If the clock returns to a reasonable rate, Loop will sync up to it again. Also, Loop now recognizes if MIDI clock was present and then stopped, which prevents waiting endlessly for a clock that never comes. *Recording of Many Loops in Sync* If AutoRecord is on and we are synced to an external source, AutoRecord turns into the Next-Insert, or Time Copy function. This allows the Echoplex to record multiple loops, all synced to the external clock. To avoid confusion in performance, we also allow the Record button to terminate this function and round off the recording to the next cycle length. (instead of terminating immediately and defining a new cycle length, as InsertRecord usually does). *StartPoint Location with Insert and Multiply* Before, if several inserts and multiplies were done, the StartPoint would end up in strange locations. Now it is much more intuitive, and maintains its location at the beginning of the first audio sample. The exception to this is when Insert is done right at the very beginning of the loop, in which case we assume that is now the StartPoint. *Display for Insert* The display was not very intuitive during inserts. Now, when inserting in the middle of a multiplied loop, the total number of cycles is shown counting up. When Insert is ended the cycle count reorients itself to the actual location. *StartPoints with Insert* Loop is now much better about keeping track of cycle number locations when insert is done several times on a loop. Before, the beginning of the count could end up almost anywhere after several Inserts were done. The cycle count now stays with the audio in a much more obvious way. Functions that retrigger the loop work in a much more obvious way, since the StartPoint of the loop stays in an obvious place. *Audio Recalibration / Improved Undo* Loop is now able to recalibrate the audio hardware to account for audio degradation associated with thermal variations in the analog to digital conversion parts. This probably improves audio quality in many subtle ways, but most importantly is the improvement to the Undo function. There has always been a problem where the audio hardware sometimes developed DC offsets over time. Loop misinterpreted this as an audio input, which meant that new memory would be used continuously and the Undo function would not work well. The thermal recal totally fixes this, making Undo much more reliable! Audio recalibration is done very quickly, but it does require that audio be off very briefly. To avoid any pops, the recal is done with each reset, and repeated periodically if Loop is left in reset. This means that a user still has the rare potential to encounter the Undo problem if they power up, begin a loop immediately, and never reset. This is actually fairly rare, and we have even improved this situation by making the startup sequence longer, allowing the convertors to get closer to their operating temperature before the initial calibration. And in the extremely rare case where a unit does develop the offset during use, as soon as the user does Reset, the problem is fixed. Before it could only be fixed with a power cycle. So even this worst case is much better than the offset situation in the previous version! *Noise Reduction* We employed some software tricks commonly used in communications systems to reduce system noise. This will likely reduce noise that could sometimes be heard in the audio. *Stereo Operation* Operating two Loop based devices together for stereo is now far more reliable and consistent. - The synchronization functions are now much smarter and all the problems with one unit getting confused by sync signals from the other have been eliminated. - Synchronizing stereo units with external devices, either as a clock receiver or transmitter, is now far more reliable as well. Before this could only be done by removing the BrotherSync cable or using particular midi cable configurations. - Many bugs have been fixed where midi messages sent to the master from an external source were not correctly passed on to the slave. - Several bugs that caused functions on the slave to execute differently than on the master have also been fixed. - The problem where feedback on the slave would be set slightly low, resulting in long term loop degradation, has been fixed. - The parameter defaults are now set for stereo. So a new user will not have to do anything for stereo to work. - Velocity messages for LoopTriggering now transfer to the stereo slave correctly. - Volume continuous controller now passes to the stereo slave correctly. - The stereo units now operate together very nicely! *Reverse* - When a multiplied loop is in Reverse, the cycle count now counts backwards! - Accuracy of Reverse is improved, mainly in case of retrigger functions. - Multiply-Reverse is now possible. Due to processing limits cycle counts cannot be maintained so all multiples become one long cycle. - No more pops! *Delay Mode* In DelayMode, the output is now off while recording. This is not delay-like, but better. Before there would be odd situations where the previous delayed audio would appear in odd places as a new delay time was being set. Also, during Mute, the feedback and input sound continues updating the unheard delay sound. This way you can record audio into the delay while the output is muted, and then turn the output back at a later point to hear what is in the delay. *Sample Dump* - various bugs fixed, plus automatic workarounds for some bugs found in other samplers and software. - Handshaking, or "closed loop" now works properly and really does go faster than the standard open loop dump. *Manufactureability Improvements* Power supply variations on some units could cause slightly low readings for Feedback, causing problems where the loop would decay even with the know all the way up. Units had to be tested for this problem in production and fixed before they could ship, which was inefficient. Some units undoubtedly shipped with such a problem, and there is the possibility of developing it as the hardware ages. Changes have been made in software to tolerate worst case voltage variations across all the relevant circuits. This corrects the problem, with the tradeoff being a slight reduction in feedback resolution at the top end of the scale. It doesn't appear to be noticeable, and is definitely worth it for the improvement in reliability. *** BUG FIXES *** - A lot of pops and clicks have been removed. (including the ones occasionally found in Reverse) - NoteOFF is always treated as if it had velocity 0. Thus, the NoteOFF command of modern keyboards with dynamic key release are understood to release the keys of the ECHOPLEX. - There was an attack noise at end of PlaySample. (the Mute-Insert function) This has been fixed. - MuteMode was not saved properly in the EEPROM. After power cycling the display would be correct but it would always be in the "Continuous" mode. - MIDIFeedBack send did not work well. It did not even reach the max and min value. Now it is sent every 30ms. - Some display errors, mainly in connection with Next or Quantized, have been removed. - In some special situations of NextLoop, with Quantize on or empty loops, we got stuck or jumped immediately. These cases are fixed. - The sound sometimes faded after a lot of repetitions. A bug with feedback was fixed that should cure this. A similar bug with stereo operation was fixed, so slave units won't have mysterious loop fading problems. - In confirm, NextUndo did not influence the running state, which was not useful because you want to arrive in the new loop Playing. So NextUndo now always does StopMute and StopOverdub. - Quantize/sync and threshold are now "anded." If both are on, Record is executed only at next beat after the signal appears. - Record-Undo is improved. (Undoing an accidental press of Record) It is maintaining the rhythm now and also uses the new defragmentation procedure, so it is possible with a loop as long as the entire memory minus the accidentally made loop. Unfortunately, the Multiply structure is lost so the loop becomes one longer cycle. - Overdub can be operated in parallel with other keys much more reliably. - After an even number of Multiplies, AutoUndo did not coincide with the start of the loop any more. - When certain functions are called now, the old data on the Quantize stack is erased. That fixes a Long Multiply problem and prevents the situation where we come back from the parameters and are stuck waiting for something. - Sync was redone. If it arrives early, we call Retrigger. Before it did not work when more than half the memory was occupied. - Insert-Multiply was wrong. It should now work as described in the manual. - The Syncs do not interfere with the long-presses of real buttons any more. - Undo LED now turns red when the key is pressed. - The amount of variation allowed for syncing to a changing clock speed is not a technical problem, but a constant we set. This limit is imposed since the speed of the music in the loop does not change, rather the loop end is chopped off or the beginning repeated. Too much variation in the external clock tends to cause a rhythmic mess, so we assume the variations are intentional and stop trying to sync. Nevertheless, we have now doubled this constant. This tends to improve the reliability of the sync without causing too many problems, and seems to be a better value. - Source# only goes to 114 to leave space for all midi functions. - Clock out for 8ths/cycle = 1 did not work at all, this is fixed. The whole algorithm for counting and generating midi clocks changed and all measures are more accurate now. - The whole Memory overflow calculation is new. (did not work the first time in a new loop) - The Multiple display now counts down while Reverse is on. But while multiplying in reverse it is still counting up (how would I know where to start counting?). - In case of quantizing to external Sync, the second press now executes the function but does not erase the Quantize flag. A reset then erases it. - NextMultiply sometimes fell directly into Mute, now its fixed. - Multiplication happens independently from loopstart and consequently the counting is not synchronized with the loopstart. In many situations, the difference between the loopstart and the counting is only due to limited operating accuracy. Therefore, RETRIGGER now eliminates this difference if it is smaller than a constant BeatCountRoundTime (actually 100 blocks = 70ms). This avoids the short appearance of the last number when we trigger the loop and strange flickers when syncing. These still appear if the multiplication was far off the loopstart and thus presumably intentional. - NextMult cannot work forward if we are coming from a reversed loop. So now, it is taking over the direction. - If the MoreLoops parameter is changed, and then immediately set back to the current value, the loops are no longer reset. - Midi LoopTrigger commands now pass to the slave correctly, including case where AutoRecord is on. - LongNext now brings you to loop 1 when the current loop is reset. - Velocity messages didn't get transferred to the stereo slave, now fixed. - Volume continuous controller not sent to slave. Now fixed. - Quantized multiply ended at the very end of memory left it waiting forever. It now ends the multiply correctly. - When syncing to midi clock and using Quantize, functions sometimes executed a cycle too late. Now they always execute at the end of the cycle, like they should. - Insert could pass the end of memory in some cases. Fixed to recognize the end correctly and kill the Insert automatically. - Multiply of max-length loops tried to work anyway. - Some functions did not execute right if Overdub was held down. That's corrected. - NextLoop sent over midi sometimes did two NextLoops when switching to a reset loop. We recognize the note offs better in this case. - Master setting slave feedback to 125 instead of 127, causing loop fades. - Inserts done in the middle or beginning of a loop could cause it to go over the maximum memory. This condition is now recognized. - Front switches now work when a pedal in the overdub jack is held down. - Multiply-Undo messed up Undo so that the loop could be undone back before it's original point in memory, bringing back old loops. Now it stops in the right place. - When the stereo master had feedback turned all the way down, it did not set feedback correctly on the slave after a Record. Now it does. - Tempo of midi clock out was lost during quantized reverse. Now it is kept correctly. - LED's are set correctly during quantized Loop switching. Some available functions were not correctly indicated. - Plus many other very minor ones.... ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 12 17:53:57 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 17:49:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnCrK-00046u-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:49:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199707130047.RAA16972@marge.cyber-dyne.com> From: "Marc Roche" To: Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:45:36 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jR_tuD.A.wpD.zWCyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/38 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:49:54 -0700 X-UIDL: c071994f4a6356b957859ccaf420863a I use JBL EON 15" powered speakers. They rule. Plenty of head room; transparent, do everything well IMHO. Cioa, salaam. ---------- > From: SoundFNR@aol.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Amplifiers for looping > Date: Saturday, July 12, 1997 12:51 PM > > Part One > What makes a good amplification setup for loops in a > live context ? (any recomendations?) > Guitar amp for sound character. > Or a PA type system to accurately produce > a multi-layered effect. > Stereo? > > Part Two > How does the sound 'quality' effect what > the player does with the loop? > > Andy (UK) > From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:35 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 18:17:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnDI0-00057l-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:17:28 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:09:58 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Echoplex oddness check: Any volunteers? Resent-Message-ID: <"VmIC4.A.9qE.xwCyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/39 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:17:28 -0700 X-UIDL: c52775332e8ad293431f8ded99750f9c >Hi gang -- > >I'm experiencing some strangeness with my Echoplex, and am wondering if >any other users out there could check to see how much of the problem is a >general Echoplex trait and how much of it is my own unit. > >The problem is this: When notes are faded into or out of silence, I'm >noticing a grainy digital aliasing-type noise which occurs as the fade-in >or -out occurs. If I watch the Input LED, this noise coincides with a >flickering of that indicator. If the Input LED is flickering from the noise you are hearing, then the volume of this noise is far higher than the typical noise floor of an echoplex. Sounds like you have developed some sort of hardware problem in the analog input or mix sections. Something might be grounding to the chassis somehow when it shouldn't, or maybe a broken solder joint, dirty pot, or something. Probably a decent electronics tech or repair shop could fix such things for you. Cleaning pots you can do yourself, you should be able to get the stuff for that at an electronics parts shop. You might as well have it on hand, because anyone using electronic music gear will need it eventually. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:37 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 19:00:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnDxR-0007EP-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:00:17 -0700 Message-ID: <33C831AB.C40@vtx.ch> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:38:51 +0200 From: Claude Voit Reply-To: c.voit@vtx.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r5mDG.A.9qG.4YDyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/41 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:00:17 -0700 X-UIDL: c6596a293c020bef172a2b6040661376 Fantastik But today earlyer I had a talk with Rolf Spuler one of the pioneers of the Paradis Loop Delay (the grand father of the plex) and he told me that Oberheim was'nt shipping at all for the two last years and that the plex story was almost dead) Would Kim get us a litle more infos about the future distibution policy of oberheim (there should be a serious backlog) are some units going to arrive to us in europe before another long wait If I found a used plex today is it worth the wait (hardware wise) long live Aurisis Research and welcome the LoopIII V5.0 Claude Voit From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:37 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 18:51:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnDpF-0006tb-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:51:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:48:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Squidlyguy@aol.com Message-ID: <970712214852_-2044574825@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Age...? Resent-Message-ID: <"Vx1PaD.A.6VG.-QDyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/40 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:51:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 73d02c6b1e598d99c29199fcdda46b9d Yeah, I'm 22...I think there are a good bit of us! -Brian From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:43 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 21:21:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnGAP-000537-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:21:49 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:18:50 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199707130418.AA07233@world.std.com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"gBazeC.A.8gE.3cFyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/42 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:21:49 -0700 X-UIDL: f497f3e005da95008aa7d7d08bfaca23 Wow. I just found this list, and it's amazing to discover not only so many people involved in looping, but even several effects processors dedicated to it. Just a year ago, I mentioned to a friend, "I wish there was some kind of digital delay where you could record a loop, then set it aside and record another one, and then switch back to the first, and then overdub, but why would anyone bother manufacturing something nobody else would want?" Foolish me. Ok, anyway. I have three big questions, but I'll give them time to breathe, so let's start with the first only. MIDI looping. I've checked all of the '97 archives (although there's no June, so maybe you've all talked it to death last month), and the only mention of MIDI looping I saw was discussion of the Cyclone (which sounds a bit more like sequencing/ arpeggiation tech, although I can see how they become similar), and one person mentioned he was writing custom software. So what's the deal? Does nobody on this list do MIDI looping? Is there simply no good technology to carry it out? Are people talking about it on some synth mailing list? Or is it just that audio looping is so much cooler because guitars (or accordians or trombones or voice) can do much cooler things, and MIDI isn't expressive enough? Or vice versa, that synths are already powerful enough instruments that they don't need the crutch of delay technology before they become interesting solo performance instruments. (Hey, I'm a guitarist myself, I'm just getting the theories on the table, not advocating them.) Or is the list full of MIDI loopers who are just keeping quiet? I first experimented with MIDI looping in '87 or so (to answer that age question, I was 20 at the time). I took my friend's Atari ST, wrote a BASIC program to do MIDI looping, mapped program changes from the input to output channel routing (so from one synth you could loop multiple different timbres), and my keyboardist friend used it to create backing textures for my pointless guitar solos. Then, because I was a guitarist, I forgot all about it. Then, as I said, I got the idea for this cool looping technology, but I figured it didn't exist. So then I was looking for other ways to expand my instrumentality, so I'm getting a guitar synth. And then I figured, hey, MIDI looping should be a lot simpler than digital looping, maybe I could do that. A search on the web, and here I am--nobody anywhere seems to be talking about MIDI looping. (I'm not doing it myself--but I want to be.) Oh, duh, a quick definition in case anyone can't guess (or if MIDI loop is a common term for something else): a MIDI looper is like an audio looper. You play in a sound source througha a MIDI in, and on the MIDI-out it plays the notes of the loop. Basically it just passes through the notes you play, and then plays them again after a delay, etc. Here are some of the obvious issues I've thought of for MIDI looping: con: no effects in the feedback path but: most people don't use their loopers that way anyway pro: actually, you can pitch shift and bounce notes between several instruments during feedback pro: easy to have multiple different speed loops (in terms of internal implementation--user interface still a nightmare); even do odd things like every pitch gets its own loop length con: requires MIDI input con: MIDI guitar with pitch bends requires one MIDI channel per note, which will get eaten up really quickly when you layer a loop con: another MIDI delay in your signal path but: you can use your performance synth (e.g. guitar synth or keyboard) to provide the initial tone, and then the extra MIDI delay can be compensated for by reducing the first iteration's delay time but but: now you need another sounds source with very similar sounds to your initial sounds pro: requires much less RAM; infinite UNDO is plausible con: probably harder to create the software for pro: probably requires much less CPU crunching power pro: you can "record" your performance into a sequencer, storing the notes you played & MIDI patch changes or such that changed the looper's performance--then just play the sequence out into the MIDI looper to repeat it. Now you can edit your performance. con: drops out notes if the layers get too thick but: get more sound sources to avoid this (and possibly multiple MIDI outs on the looper to get more channels with distinct pitch bends). Also, audio looper must distort or clamp or compress if the total audio volume gets too thick (different but similar sort of problem) Well, I could go on and on (well, I guess I already have), but I'm interested to hear some comments before I go too far over the top with it. (I'm pretty sure there are some existing MIDI "multiplexers" with some kind of MIDI delay features, but it seems the dedicated digital audio loopers have obvious performance features for doing all sorts of things a pure "delay" won't have, and I doubt such multiplexers implement a delay which deals correctly with pitch-bent notes, thus making not too useful. But I'd be just as happy to be proven wrong, as the Echoplex and JamMan have already done in the digitial audio dimension.) Sean Barrett computer game programming: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7788 From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:44 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 12 21:46:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnGYK-0006DB-00; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:46:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199707130444.XAA03426@Mailbox.mcs.com> From: "Bob Brink" To: Subject: Re: Pet the Shower Stall Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:44:04 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dkGYIC.A.0kF.l0Fyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/43 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:46:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 16503154df86acb7b506893e869727c8 please remove benvance@ipahome.com from the list. E-mail box is no longer valid. thanks, ---------- > From: future perfect > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Pet the Shower Stall > Date: Saturday, July 12, 1997 12:47 AM > > > > > Any other indulgent Fripp "Tribute" recordings out there? Anyone ever tried > > to fool their friends with one, and gotten away with it? (I have, though I'm > > not entirely sure how)! > > I recorded one a few years ago called 'Continue..As If Nothing > Happened'. > It was 20 minutes of me playing with a 25 second reverb, with no direct > signal. I overdubbed an insanely distorted Ebow on the top, and actually > fooled a few of my friends. > Dave > -- > ********************************************************************* > 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 > 'If you don't know where you're going, > you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp > From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:46 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 02:00:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnKVw-0007MB-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:00:20 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:56:44 -0400 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199707130456_MC2-1ABC-7B9D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"CHYRcB.A.IyG.oiJyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/44 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:00:20 -0700 X-UIDL: edfeffa33c5c05cdc367a042d7a338d8 the one thing that interests me most about the new Echoplex is: Will it carry the CE stamp necessary to import it to Europe, or not? If Gibson are really dedicated to this new product, they will spend the money and energy to get a CE stamp ... if not, we'd have to import it ourselves, illegally ... ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm Support the Warr Guitar Defense Fund http://home.earthlink.net/~greendog/warrfund.html From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:56 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 03:01:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnLT2-0001xM-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:01:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:57:46 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Age...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HtfOm.A.-uB.NcKyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/46 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:01:24 -0700 X-UIDL: bae323a3a80f774d1a0257fb8fac38ea > > Warren Sirota Wrote > > > > > is anyone on this list under 25? > > 23 as of this past Thursday... > > --Andre finally 21 in only three months. ** Dan Howarth ** ** Classics-History-Music. University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth ** From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:57 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 03:48:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnMC6-0003Ht-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:47:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 06:45:30 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970713064528_-1326065530@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"C1agSD.A.f_C._HLyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:47:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 9b71d74f2223c6bc8d00598bb2583cdf In a message dated 7/13/97 9:56:07 AM, you wrote: <> Uh,....rather a heavy handed post I dare say. I do Midi looping, and I've mentioned it before on this list but it's a desert out there as far as this goes. There aren't many people doing it. Also, it's mostly guitarists on this list. (Not putting it down at all, I play guitar too.) Anyway, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I don't know what your equipment setup is like, but you made midi looping seem ultra complicated. It isn't for me. I use a Roland MV30 sequencer running a JV 1080 synth. Also I can add other modules as well if I need to. You just set the MV30 to loop and decide how many measures you want it to be. You can be under of course, but not over. Just get rid of unused measures. Put the 1080 in Performance mode (multi) and go. Just change midi channels on master keyboard. It couldn't be much simpler. Voices on the 1080 can be effected differently , panned, and mixed. If you need more extreme effects, send the voice out of independent outs (there are six) and effect away. I always get interesting results with this. Also, my girfriends' Roland XP80 is setup very similar. Very easy to loop this way. No time constraints and excellent sound quality with many open options afterwards. Jim From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:57 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 05:34:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnNra-0006RX-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:34:54 -0700 Message-Id: <20520.199707131232@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:32:32 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pycraft Hughes, PhD) Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall - EMS Resent-Message-ID: <"QBex_C.A.U8F.CsMyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/48 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:34:54 -0700 X-UIDL: bae6db1bc7a664381f0c3d1c7fb82588 >> Actually, the company is called EMS (Electronic Music Systems) and is/was an >> English company. They made a few different products, but none in huge >> quantities.. For those hip enough to own a copy... :) ....the whole of On The Run (from Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon) was done in one take by Dave Gilmour and a Synthi. Speech recordings were added later. Aparently there's a patch on the Kurzweil K2000 that plays the whole of On The Run, perhaps unsurprising since PF's Rick Wright uses the K2000 on tour. Michael /-------------------------------------------------------------------\ |Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes | Tel:0141 330 5979 | Fax: 0141 330 4907 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |Bioelectronics, Rankine Bldg, Glasgow University, Glasgow, G12 8QQ | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | http://www.elec.gla.ac.uk/groups/bio/Electrokinetics/main.html | \-------------------------------------------------------------------/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 13 21:47:52 1997 >From kflint Sat Sep 13 07:52:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0x9tYU-0003iY-00; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:52:14 -0700 Message-ID: <33C8EA8B.CABF245B@ccnet.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:47:39 -0700 From: Roland Eberle Reply-To: roland@ccnet.com Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Hook me up...Please! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------84F86DF1914E38DD19544D24" Resent-Message-ID: <"lUXhaC.A.1RD.2eqG0"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/503 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:52:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 158201a10a1845f0cb3fc70c003e07fb My back hurts (from bending over a rack enclosure re-routing wires etc.)
My brain hurts (from trying to figure out the best way to hook all this stuff up)

A recent buying spree  has netted me some long sought after/coveted gear and  I am
now at my wits end as to how I should connect it all...Suggestions PLEASE.

I am sure there are many of you out there who understand signal paths way better than I...and I would really appreciate opinions on optimizing this gear from a looping standpoint...here's what I have...most of it recently acquired:
Echoplex Digital Pro...yes I am the lucky guy who got the plex posted for sale about a week ago have played with it about a half hour and find it much easier to understand than the jamman I sold about 6 months ago.
Lexicon Vortex
Lexicon Reflex
Mackie 1202 mixer (the old one..not a VLZ...if that makes a difference)
Roland DR-660 drum machine
Roland GK2A midi pickup (I play guitar btw) and GI-10 converter going into a
Roland M-GS64 sound module (got it at the Guitar Center Labor Day sale for $99!)
Carvin Quad-X pre-amp (9 tubes; 4 channels; 2 stereo fx loops which can be operated by the excellent foot switch; 4 channel inserts a great sounding unit which I recommend)
Yamaha QY-10 (compact sequencer/sound module thingy)
DBX-163x mono compressor
Peavey Classic 50/50 all tube stereo power amp 50 watts per side into
2 Peavey Classic 112 speaker cabinets (12 inch speakers in sealed cabinets)

I am spending way too much time reading manuals trying figure the midi guitar stuff
and the plex...don't know squat about using mixers but understand from reading posts here that they are a real boon...and I am just too fatigued to try and figure how best to
implement all this stuff. All replies will be greatly appreciated..Thanks in advance.
Reply to the list (I'm sure there must be others who would benefit from the wisdom of
you technically minded loopfolke) or to me at roland@ccnet.com
Again...thanks. From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:58 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 07:48:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnPwP-0002rg-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:48:01 -0700 X-Sender: LEO@MAIL.DINONET.IT X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:52:02 +0200 Message-ID: <19970713145201500.AAA211@Default> Resent-Message-ID: <"vHLEdB.A.gjC.1oOyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/49 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:48:01 -0700 X-UIDL: f6ec51ac5f7e2c5ac535b37ff3c2f217 At 17.32 12/07/97 -0700, you wrote: > >At the NAMM show in Nashville this weekend, Oberheim is announcing a new >software version for the Echoplex Digital Pro. It's called LoopIII V5.0, >and will be shipping this month in new units and as upgrades for existing >Echoplex owners. There are many, many improvements and enhancements over >LoopIII V3.2, which has been shipping in the Echoplex for over two and a >half years now. Many of you have been waiting a long time for this; the >wait is finally over! > >I'm not sure what Oberheim's upgrade policy will be for this version, you >should contact Oberheim or an Oberheim dealer for details. > Hi kim, Matthias and all at Aurisis Research great work for the upgrade. It seems a lot of work involved. I just ordered my plex through a local music store some weeks ago but there are some delays importing the unit from USA to Florence, Italy. Well, I hope delays are due to shipping the new software version... What do you think? Is it possible? Any hope to receive the upgrade? And do you know how long we've to wait to see distributed the new ones? And there will be a change in price? A curiosity: only the software has been changed or the hardware too? thanks 25 years old Leo P.S. Some other italian on the list??? From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:19:01 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 10:23:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnSN8-0000jD-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:23:47 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Let The Power Fall - EMS Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:20:54 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 18 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"ZB8ixC.A.Xk.m6Qyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/50 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:23:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 6e4e7bf0316f1443331458e4a0753ff5 >------quote---- >From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >For those hip enough to own a copy... :) >....the whole of On The Run (from Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon) was >done in one take by Dave Gilmour and a Synthi. Speech recordings were >added later. -------end quote---- My copy of Pink Floyd "Live Pompeii" which includes film of the "Dark Side of the Moon" Sessions show Roger Waters playing the Track. later >John > From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 16:35:15 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 11:52:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnTkp-000439-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:52:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:48:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970713144840_-1460525909@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Resent-Message-ID: <"HZaVqC.A.CnD.FNSyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/51 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:52:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 73d85a1f9b71fa4cf7b544a4b50872d6 In a message dated 7/13/97 8:14:15 AM, Randy wrote: <> Sorry...I'm 49 dpc From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 11:18:55 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 02:51:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnLJl-0001f3-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:51:49 -0700 Message-ID: <33C9235C.5B0D@inet.uni-c.dk> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:50:04 -0700 From: "Kim G. Hansen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall - EMS References: <970712153901_41385357@emout18.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JX8GCD.A.zdB.QTKyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/45 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:51:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 3fc92785e0304ec4004d81150bb9de39 BlkSwan03@aol.com wrote: > > > Actually, the company is called EMS (Electronic Music Systems) and is/was an > English company. They made a few different products, but none in huge > quantities.. "SNIP" .. I believe there are > people that do this, > some associated with EMS, but I've not been able to get anyone to answer > their phone or return messages. Not much of a confidence builder. If anyone > out there has experience with any shops that know how to repair these, let me > know. EMS still operates in England. Go here: http://www.hinton.demon.co.uk/ems/ems.html Best, - Kim G. From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 16:35:16 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 11:54:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnTmu-0004C0-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:54:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:50:25 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970713145024_1546278985@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: RE: Let The Power Fall - EMS Resent-Message-ID: <"hfcUOC.A.RvD.xOSyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:54:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 5e43274ba7d19a49a29f617b09689ca1 In a message dated 7/13/97 5:23:32 PM, you wrote: <> With not one but two AKS's. Sorry I left them out. Didn't mean to. I think they had been messing with EMS stuff for a bit before "Dark Side". Roger's "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving With A Pict" (which I assume everyone on this list is familiar with-off of "Ummagumma".) is done with vocals but I think it was set up with the AKS and the vocal parts were added on top. The reason I think that is because I once got the very same type of rythymic chant kind of sound off the AKS. It was very weird and another example of the unique qualities of this synth. Jim (Portland, OR) From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 20:14:29 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 19:37:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnb1A-0000mH-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:37:40 -0700 X-Sender: vajra1@pop3.mho.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:49:34 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) Subject: Re: Hey, I'm under Twenty-Fi....EEEEK!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"2092i.A.5j.6BZyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:37:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 9756d3bd9dbc649abbc9d520b59ab8c8 >Last time I checked, I was under 25, but... (VRAP!!!!!!!) - Sudden look at >the dashboard of life - Holy BeJezzuz! I turn fraggin' THIRTY in a few >months? What the $%&# happened? > >Were is my wife, kids and minivan? > Continue processing presently cued loop. The next version of the Vortex has minivan capability. Hang in there. B.P. And BTW, where have all the cowboys gone?........................ :-) From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 16:35:16 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 13:12:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnV0m-0007Mw-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:12:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:10:01 -0400 (EDT) From: KelRey@aol.com Message-ID: <970713161000_-1191775735@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Resent-Message-ID: <"Vp297C.A.QwG.SZTyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/53 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:12:52 -0700 X-UIDL: b6cc25ef3ec2ef522b2b767ee98cc2e4 In a message dated 7/13/97 2:34:41 PM, you wrote: <> Sorry...I'm 49 dpc >> Sorry dpc, I'm 52 Kelly From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 16:35:17 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 13:42:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnVTF-0000l7-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:42:17 -0700 Message-ID: <33C93F6C.7B2A@dmans.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:49:48 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! References: <3.0.1.32.19970710130031.006bbfa4@allserv.rug.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail.dmans.com id PAA29929 Resent-Message-ID: <"X7C1r.A.Em.u0Tyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/54 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:42:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 2cd5119024863b75499a88780c2c2ecd Mario De Bock wrote: > I got the following address : http://www.netbutler.com/boomerang > > It would be nice to have some feedback from guitar players who are using > the 'Boomerang'. > >From the description on the web page it looks very nice! > > Mario. I use the 'Rang and love it, but here are some other folks who use the Boomerang Phrase Sampler: Victor Wooten - bassist extraordinaire; plays with Bela Fleck & the Flecktones and solo Jake E. Lee - rock guitarist; played with Ozzie Osborne; now solo Howard Leese (sp) - guitarist for Hart Vernon Reid - rock/pop guitarist; played with In Living Color; now solo Matthew Sweet - rock guitarist/singer Trey Gunn - plays Warr guitar with King Crimson Henry Kaiser - west coast avant-garde guitarist Axl Rose - singer for Guns and Roses Christian Rover - German jazz/fusion guitarist Bill Forth - heavy, avant-garde guitarist; released a CD on Robert Frippâs label Matthew Henderson - avant-garde guitarist; the lead singer in his band is Mary Pastorius, Jaco's daughter Jerry McPherson - plays with Amy Grant and is Nashville session player William Owsley - plays with Shania Twain Steve Bargonetti - versatile New York player who composes for TV and theater Rick Brannon - has 3 or 4 CDâs out as Rick Brannon & Electric Detective - Hollywood hotshot Michael Scott - guitar player for TAFKA Prince; has recorded with Janet Jackson, Gladys Knight, Rod Stewart, & Lionel Richie Rob Wasserman - highly respected bass player, currently touring with with Bob Weir (June 97) Daniel Lanois - guitarist, composer, producer - created the soundtrack for the movie Sling Blade Motley a.k.a. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 16:35:19 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 14:42:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnWPJ-0003GJ-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:42:17 -0700 Message-ID: <33C94D76.4B11@dmans.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:49:42 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A couple of Responses References: <970713161000_-1191775735@emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MdG0kC.A.D5C.3sUyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/55 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:42:17 -0700 X-UIDL: f680cfd6fc287b0b7f43a7193b70ccb0 KelRey@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/13/97 2:34:41 PM, you wrote: > > < > < than me here!!!>> > Sorry...I'm 49 > dpc > >> > > Sorry dpc, > > I'm 52 > Kelly Sorry, Kelly, sometimes I feel 53 or even 54. Motley From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 22:11:33 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 14:57:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnt79-0007R7-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:57:03 -0700 X-Sender: ngold@mail.imagina.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:52:45 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: Midi looping Resent-Message-ID: <"XJobXB.A.IlG.Z-pyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/89 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:57:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e38f2c8641e8433444707f46e4f6410 As a long time midi user and looper I recently moved over to Logic Audio for a few key reasons (related to looping): Real time tweaking of all sound parmeters without stopping. Cubase has this too. Unique to Logic: A mode in which you can track as many takes as you like in "loop" mode, where the previous takes are muted, and you are automatically moved to the next track, so you have a virtual looper/multi track. After recording all the takes you want, you can unmute, quantize, change sound parameters, etc. without stopping. This feature alone sold me on Logic, despite its reputation as having a steep learning curve. Unfortunately you can't do the same recording with audio, but what audio tracks are already recorded can loop along with the midi. And the sample editor makes it easy to find loops in 'free improvised' material in real time in a similar manner as Recycle does. Any more questions or comments on this, shoot. Neil ngold@imagina.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 16:35:20 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 16:34:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnYAC-0007gJ-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:34:48 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:31:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970713193157_982616948@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Resent-Message-ID: <"FDAxDD.A.sEH.jWWyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/56 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:34:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 8d98cff335551f2f2167ac6aeee146f6 <> Jeez, geezer, that's a relief! From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 18:58:43 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 16:46:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnYL0-0000Q3-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:45:58 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:39:39 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Resent-Message-ID: <"0oZloB.A.SQ.KhWyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/57 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:45:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 9a1d28adb610362440c4f49177f40335 Status: O X-Status: >KelRey@aol.com wrote: >> >> In a message dated 7/13/97 2:34:41 PM, you wrote: >> >> <> >> <> than me here!!!>> >> Sorry...I'm 49 >> dpc >> >> >> >> Sorry dpc, >> >> I'm 52 >> Kelly > >Sorry, Kelly, sometimes I feel 53 or even 54. >Motley > 55, 55, do I hear 55? For that matter, we've heard 15, do we have 14? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 18:58:44 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 17:16:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnYof-0001yR-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:16:37 -0700 Message-ID: <33C96F72.9582D651@wsdesigns.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:14:46 -0700 From: Warren Sirota Reply-To: wsirota@wsdesigns.com Organization: WS Designs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Age etc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"klb1sB.A.xtB.p9Wyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/58 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:16:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 093922594681f0afa2693739a9ff8b58 Status: O X-Status: Hello again, Well, it was interesting to see all the age checks. I guess I was laboring under some misconceptions. I found Kim's comment interesting: > The discussion about "What do we call it" is certainly interesting, > but I > think the "it" in question is not the whole of "loop music" but just > the > "ambient-experimental improvisations employing loops" category. "Loop > music" includes a lot of other music, some of which even has well > recognized names and well known and populated venues for its > performance! Fair enough. I was basically talking about non-danceable loop music in an abstract vein. All I was trying to do was make a couple of small points, but I see that my general tongue-in-cheekness muddied the message for some. Here's the careful summary of my assertions (note from legal dept: any of which may be wrong): 1. Dance music is functionally (in terms of societal function) different than other types of music (and rock music is nothing new in that regard). 2. In today's market and general musical consciousness, most of the opportunities for having music heard and appreciated go to danceable music. 3. If you're not making dance music, and you still want an audience, then you must accept #2 or find the courage to change it. (Here's where it gets dicey...) 4. Most people who go out to clubs are younger people, because most old fogies like myself have a lot of trouble getting the families (or even ourselves) out of the house in the evening - we're too busy, too tired, too lazy, too jaded, too whatever. 5. Maybe there's hope for us (note from legal dept: people like *me*, not necessarily people like "us", whoever "we" are) yet and something can be done about #4, like creating and publicizing something new that might get us out of the house once in a while. Probably not, though. Anyway, it's good to be reminded that you don't have to be an aging techno-hippie to be into this stuff. And congratulations, Kim, Matthias, et. al. on your latest achievement! Many wishes for success. -- Yours truly, Warren Sirota Windows musicians: learn songs and solos from any audio CD: http://wsdesigns.com/presto/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 18:58:47 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 18:20:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnZo5-0004fF-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:20:05 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707130418.AA07233@world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:53:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"r9vXhC.A.BLE.74Xyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/59 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:20:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 7583d6a7e5197ee29ee8efdffd5df746 Status: O X-Status: >Just a year ago, I mentioned to a friend, "I wish there >was some kind of digital delay where you could record a loop, >then set it aside and record another one, and then switch back >to the first, and then overdub, but why would anyone bother >manufacturing something nobody else would want?" The manufacturers often ask themselves that question after trying it for a while, usually with unfortunate results.......:-) >MIDI looping. > >So what's the deal? Does nobody on this list do MIDI looping? >Is there simply no good technology to carry it out? Are >people talking about it on some synth mailing list? Like Jim mentioned, a lot of simple sequencers to a primitive sort of looping. I know my old alesis drum machine has it's record mode, which basically loops over the length you have set. Anything you play gets added to the loop. Not much you can do to it once it's in there, though. I never did manage to record drum sequences this way with any success, although it was great for the "happy accident" method of composing. Somehow it's never occured to me to experiment with that just for looping. Other than that I would suggest using Max, which is a graphical/object-oriented midi programming environment for the mac. It's a great tool, created at IRCAM in France and sold by Opcode. I think the sample applications that max even comes with even includes a midi delay and a looper. I think it would be fairly easy to create a powerful midi looping application with max. You could even design a nice big, custom gui. I'd be surprised if someone hadn't already done this, actually. >Or is >it just that audio looping is so much cooler because guitars >(or accordians or trombones or voice) can do much cooler things, >and MIDI isn't expressive enough? well, there is that....:-) My experiences with demoing in the oberheim booth is that midi/synth people don't quite grasp the possibilites of audio looping when the demo is done with synth sounds. They assume it's done with midi somehow. And so many of them are accustomed to creating on sequencers in a rather methodical way, that the real-time performance possibilities aren't very interesting to them. They think, "well why don't I just make sequences first and then loop the one I want later when I need it?" If that's what they are used to, then the idea of creating the sequence live may not be very interesting. The idea that you could have that process of creating a sequence actually BE the performance, and that manipulating that sequence in a wide variety of ways as it plays might be musically interesting, is wide open territory. Analog synth enthusiasts are a different breed of course, the idea of tweaking filter knobs and looping the resulting sound is interesting there. Guitarist and dj's seem to grasp looping immediately because they often have the burden of juggling multiple parts of the music at once, and looping is a great help. Being able to loop a break beat/rhythm guitar part/whatever is immediately appealing. It gives you freedom to do another thing while the loop is going. (play a solo, play a different rhythm part, cue up another track, drink more beer) From that entry point the artistic possibilities inherent to looping become more apparent. >Or vice versa, that synths >are already powerful enough instruments that they don't need >the crutch of delay technology before they become interesting >solo performance instruments. (Hey, I'm a guitarist myself, >I'm just getting the theories on the table, not advocating >them.) crutch? ah-hem.... >so I'm getting a guitar synth. And then I figured, hey, >MIDI looping should be a lot simpler than digital looping, >maybe I could do that. A search on the web, and here I >am--nobody anywhere seems to be talking about MIDI looping. >(I'm not doing it myself--but I want to be.) It does seem like a pretty obvious use of midi to me. And you seem to be right, there aren't really any good tools that I know of for real-time midi looping. Plenty for non-real-time, of course. It would be interesting to hear from people who have cobbled together midi looping setups. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 18:58:46 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 18:20:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnZo3-0004er-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:20:03 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970713145201500.AAA211@Default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:13:15 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! Resent-Message-ID: <"8b4PyD.A.bLE.-4Xyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/60 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:20:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 30dda7f233e8190f068c13d6292c9b3c Status: O X-Status: At 4:52 PM +0200 7/13/97, Leonardo Cavallo wrote: > >great work for the upgrade. It seems a lot of work involved. >I just ordered my plex through a local music store some weeks ago but there >are some delays importing the unit from USA to Florence, Italy. Well, I hope >delays are due to shipping the new software version... >What do you think? Is it possible? I think delays are due to getting production going again after it all but stopped. They are shipping a lot of units this month, and I think quite a few are heading for Italy. Those will all have the new upgrade. >Any hope to receive the upgrade? yes, it should be in new units shipping this month. >And do you know how long we've to wait to see distributed the new ones? >And there will be a change in price? You have to ask Oberheim those questions, I don't know. >A curiosity: only the software has been changed or the hardware too? just software. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 18:58:55 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 18:30:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnZxv-000594-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:30:15 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707130456_MC2-1ABC-7B9D@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:23:14 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: The Echoplex/CE Resent-Message-ID: <"nx8yJC.A.lqE.PCYyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/61 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:30:15 -0700 X-UIDL: f3a2549f6640cc3449230f02430a2b78 Status: O X-Status: At 4:56 AM -0400 7/13/97, Michael Peters wrote: >the one thing that interests me most about the new Echoplex is: > >Will it carry the CE stamp necessary to import it to Europe, or not? I don't know what they are doing with CE. (software doesn't have much to do with it!) When I left Gibson there was a plan for how to get CE approval for the echoplex. I don't know if they have done that or not. I assume so, since they seem to be planning to export a lot of them there. You might want to ask them that directly. OB's customer service human is Dean Fouts >If Gibson are really dedicated to this new product, they will spend the >money and energy to get a CE stamp ... one would hope so.....they do have CE approval for all the rest of their product line, although that's not very challenging with Les Pauls. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 18:58:55 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 18:41:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wna91-0005h9-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:41:43 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33C831AB.C40@vtx.ch> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:35:09 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! Resent-Message-ID: <"tepBtB.A.mKF.cNYyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/62 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:41:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 96e40ce55572f233f25824b191cf38c6 Status: O X-Status: At 3:38 AM +0200 7/13/97, Claude Voit wrote: >But today earlyer I had a talk with Rolf Spuler one of the pioneers of >the Paradis Loop Delay (the grand father of the plex) and he told me >that Oberheim was'nt shipping at all for the two last years and that the >plex story was almost dead) Well, they didn't ship any to Rolf for the past two years, which is a sad story. They have definitely been shipping them for the past two years though, including shipments to europe. >Would Kim get us a litle more infos about the future distibution policy >of oberheim (there should be a serious backlog) >are some units going to arrive to us in europe before another long wait I have no involvement in Oberheim policies, you have to contact them to ask such questions. (We just license software.) I could tell them that a lot of folks in Europe would like to know more. They are planning shipments soon to European distributors, but I don't know any details. >If I found a used plex today is it worth the wait (hardware wise) The hardware is the same, sure.... >long live Aurisis Research > >and welcome the LoopIII V5.0 > >Claude Voit thanks! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 20:14:26 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 19:16:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnagH-0007Nr-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:16:05 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:12:36 -0400 (EDT) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970713221233_-592097013@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall - EMS Resent-Message-ID: <"WzIvbD.A.ftG.LtYyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/63 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:16:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 328930edd17d679f760708f72c0087c9 Funny, I always thought SSOSFAGTIACAGWAP was largely sped-up spliced tape loops of Roger Waters acting like small jungle mammals. Could we both be right perhaps? In a message dated 97-07-13 15:35:54 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: RE: Let The Power Fall - EMS Date: 97-07-13 15:35:54 EDT From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Resent-from: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/13/97 5:23:32 PM, you wrote: <> With not one but two AKS's. Sorry I left them out. Didn't mean to. I think they had been messing with EMS stuff for a bit before "Dark Side". Roger's "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving With A Pict" (which I assume everyone on this list is familiar with-off of "Ummagumma".) is done with vocals but I think it was set up with the AKS and the vocal parts were added on top. The reason I think that is because I once got the very same type of rythymic chant kind of sound off the AKS. It was very weird and another example of the unique qualities of this synth. Jim (Portland, OR) >> From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 20:14:27 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 19:24:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnaoN-0000AA-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:24:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:21:25 -0400 (EDT) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970713222118_592376849@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hey, I'm under Twenty-Fi....EEEEK!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"79TOs.A.7B.d1Yyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/64 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:24:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 9152768f9125af9e9ee9731f8bb56587 Last time I checked, I was under 25, but... (VRAP!!!!!!!) - Sudden look at the dashboard of life - Holy BeJezzuz! I turn fraggin' THIRTY in a few months? What the $%&# happened? Were is my wife, kids and minivan? Do I care yet? (I'm soooooo confused by this temporal existence...) Pete (looping my life away...) In a message dated 97-07-13 20:56:27 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: A couple of Responses Date: 97-07-13 20:56:27 EDT From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Resent-from: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <> Jeez, geezer, that's a relief! >> From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 20:14:29 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 19:37:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnb0h-0000jx-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:37:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:34:02 -0400 (EDT) From: KelRey@aol.com Message-ID: <970713223354_1657187311@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Resent-Message-ID: <"oXq6mC.A.9f.OBZyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/65 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:37:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 49c5d1809d9ea79d011a473920985bba If you cant laff whats the point? That was great Kim LOL Kelly From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 20:14:30 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 19:47:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnbAX-0001PE-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:47:21 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:44:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: <970713224359_-526808763@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! Resent-Message-ID: <"nt9PuB.A.sIB.nKZyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:47:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 1574d3e3f6f3d6ff6bde6f724ef1b8a6 In a message dated 7/13/97 8:29:53 PM, KF wrote: >>A curiosity: only the software has been changed or the hardware too? > >just software. Another question: How do you determine the software rev. on the Echoplex? From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 20:14:30 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 19:53:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnbG4-0001pC-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:53:04 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:50:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: <970713225000_424603478@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"_eiGFD.A.hiB.RQZyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/68 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:53:04 -0700 X-UIDL: b72a0b4765a8a885a9eb72f8ea75293d In a message dated 7/13/97 8:59:08 PM, Kim wrote: >Other than that I would suggest using Max, which is a >graphical/object-oriented midi programming environment for the mac. It's a >great tool, created at IRCAM in France and sold by Opcode. I think the >sample applications that max even comes with even includes a midi delay and >a looper. I think it would be fairly easy to create a powerful midi looping >application with max. You could even design a nice big, custom gui. I'd be >surprised if someone hadn't already done this, actually. The thought also occurs to me that both Midi and Audio looping could be achieved (with a great deal of programming freedom) on a KYMA system, by Symbolic Sound. Last time I checked a basic system went for $4400 (dropping over the last few years), but considering all that it could do (from synthesis, digital audio, sample processing, effects, etc., etc., etc. in realtime) it might be worth considering.... Marshall From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 20:22:13 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 20:26:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnbmD-0003W8-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:26:17 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970713224359_-526808763@emout05.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:19:48 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: The Echoplex upgrade arrives! Resent-Message-ID: <"lBeCkD.A.VKD.hvZyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:26:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 1d26c7cc1cb1da1ce80bad673a6154c1 >In a message dated 7/13/97 8:29:53 PM, KF wrote: > >>>A curiosity: only the software has been changed or the hardware too? >> >>just software. > >Another question: > >How do you determine the software rev. on the Echoplex? It says on the display when it powers up. The new upgrade says it more dramatically than the last one.....and if the new start-up display doesn't get you all fired up to get it, I don't know what will! :-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 23:56:30 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 20:40:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnc0I-0004Cc-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:40:50 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hey, I'm under Twenty-Fi....EEEEK!!!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rQlo1D.A.lwD.F8Zyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/70 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:40:50 -0700 X-UIDL: ed3ca7f6330d587ae4ba4e3d9ab75c6d On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Robert Phelps wrote: > And BTW, where have all the cowboys gone?........................ :-) I guess those "doot - n'da - doot"s in the choruses do kinda qualify as a loop... From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:05 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 04:46:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnjaU-0007Ep-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 04:46:42 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 06:06:42 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Age Resent-Message-ID: <"Ep3GnD.A.inG.-Dhyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/76 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 04:46:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 0a4e637a5975731820e0496717b613a9 Fellow Loopers, I'm 41 going on 16.......the toys just get more expensive...like my new Mackie 1604VLZ........very nice... Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 23:56:32 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 21:27:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wncjD-0006eb-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:27:15 -0700 Sender: todd@erols.com Message-ID: <33C9A610.28F6237E@erols.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:07:44 -0400 From: Todd Pafford X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall - EMS References: <970713221233_-592097013@emout11.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uZPswD.A.YHG.hoayz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/73 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:27:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 94aad56a7b23aa69a7cb3dd139b3e002 Just so we all know, a friend of mine has a bootleg video of PF doing SSOSFAGTIACAGWAP live. Yes it's all vocals. There may be some synth stuff, but if so it's very discrete stuff in the background. I haven't seen the video in years, but from what I remember it's pretty minimal on electronics/effects/processing. Just goes to show that we don't always need fancy gizmos to get really far out. :) Of course, whether it's reproduced exactly the same live as it is on Ummagumma, I can't say. All I know is that it was really amazing to see. :) T.Pafford PainPete@aol.com wrote: > > Funny, I always thought SSOSFAGTIACAGWAP was largely sped-up spliced tape > loops of Roger Waters acting like small jungle mammals. Could we both be > right perhaps? > >>>>>> others' speculations cut for space <<<<<<<<<< From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 23:56:31 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 21:12:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wncUQ-0005iO-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:11:58 -0700 Message-ID: <33C9A6A5.281E@voicenet.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:10:13 -0400 From: Charles Cohen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI looping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SoVlnC.A.mIF.6Zayz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/71 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:11:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 9c3a70ad9e9b380de4195fb1c456d65d Megalomania 1.2.3 freeware at the usual places. Sort of a poor person's MAX -- **** What's Charles up to? **** http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 23:56:31 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 21:17:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnca3-0006Fd-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:17:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199707140415.VAA16662@usr07.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:15:28 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fUtrV.A.5qF.lfayz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/72 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:17:47 -0700 X-UIDL: f15dac8d1ca4390cf00b6c6fc5860e9f > >KelRey@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> In a message dated 7/13/97 2:34:41 PM, you wrote: > >> > >> < >> > >> < >> than me here!!!>> > >> Sorry...I'm 49 > >> dpc > >> >> > >> > >> Sorry dpc, > >> > >> I'm 52 > >> Kelly > > > >Sorry, Kelly, sometimes I feel 53 or even 54. > >Motley > > > 55, 55, do I hear 55? > > For that matter, we've heard 15, do we have 14? > > kim Well, if Kim adds to this foolishness, why shouldn't I? 40 here. What piffle! Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- From ???@??? Sun Jul 13 23:56:33 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 13 21:56:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wndBP-00005D-00; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:56:23 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Message-ID: <19970714.004954.8263.12.JesseKudler@juno.com> References: <9707128687.AA868734628@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-18 From: jessekudler@juno.com (Jesse G Kudler) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:53:26 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"-Psa7B.A.VPH.yDbyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/74 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:56:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 7effe2258483c609b8bdecbebca3db96 I apparently missed the original post, but let me say that I'm 18. -Jesse On Sat, 12 Jul 97 13:57:14 -0600 "mmason" writes: > > > Warren Sirota Wrote > > > is anyone on this list under 25? > > I'm 15. > > Jay or Boris > mmason@faulkcomp.com > > > > From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:15 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 08:25:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnn0J-0002Bq-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:25:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:51:14 +0400 Message-ID: <00002626.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re[2]: A couple of Responses To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Dpcoffin@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"BAvHHB.A.n1B.vQkyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/83 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:25:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 7c1ad3c437123ded8c26ff5474a4fb01 This makes me think 40 is not so bad. Miguel ___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________ Assunto: Re: A couple of Responses Autor: Dpcoffin@aol.com na INTERNET Data: 13/07/1900 14:48 In a message dated 7/13/97 8:14:15 AM, Randy wrote: <> Sorry...I'm 49 dpc From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:04 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 01:09:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wngCF-0007mU-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:09:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 04:05:34 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970714040533_948762151@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall - EMS Resent-Message-ID: <"VB5j7.A.5JH.G4dyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/75 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:09:27 -0700 X-UIDL: aee18ca3a0fa74e6c81753128ac0029f In a message dated 7/14/97 5:36:59 AM, you wrote: << Funny, I always thought SSOSFAGTIACAGWAP was largely sped-up spliced tape loops of Roger Waters acting like small jungle mammals. Could we both be right perhaps? >> Well, there's a lot of things going on in that piece, including sped up stuff and reversed stuff. I am talking mainly about the chant part (can't possibly figure out how to spell it out tho!) I'm speculating of course, but I did once get the very same type of sequence on the AKS. I wondered at the time if Roger just recorded over the parts with weird vocals to disguise the synth origins and make it even stranger. Jim From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:10 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 07:02:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnliC-00054z-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:02:48 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:58:23 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Echoplex oddness check: Any volunteers? Resent-Message-ID: <"huI5bC.A.lYE.KCjyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/77 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:02:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 4b62fe962e3961e7b5607f2f72584b2e >Cleaning pots you can do yourself, you should be >able to get the stuff for that at an electronics parts shop. You might as >well have it on hand, because anyone using electronic music gear will need >it eventually. With contact spray? Air? From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:09 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 07:03:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnliO-000568-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:03:00 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:58:28 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: old is better than new? Resent-Message-ID: <"Iy21sB.A.LZE.OCjyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/78 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:03:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 9abb0654b95b8745e4874192c6d13488 Pete: >I have never been able to re-create that sound since I got >better gear and practiced a lot. Now, for some reason, the new stuff sounds >like shit in some ways when compared to the old stuff, the old just seems to >have unique qualities about it that seem to have been lost in the new. Is that a quality of evolution? With each new thing, an old one gets lost? But, would that be a reason to stick to the old, which is elaborated, rather than elaborate the new? >Dexterity limitations and funky gear give you so much built-in restraint in a >way (something that most guitarists don't have naturally) and with chops and >a big-ass amp comes the-guitarist-won't-shut-up syndrome, or something. (At >least I have that problem, which I just decided to call premature >Riff-jaculation). We may feel better, if we have a exterior limitation, than if the limitation is our own capacity. For example: I sometimes have the impression that someone is actually happy not to have money, so he cannot buy a tool, and therfore not work and so he sits there, hapy with what he has. Is that modesty? and Warren: >Perhaps loop music can work as an analogue to dance music for older >people (is anyone on this list under 25?) Whereas rock (functionally >speaking) is pre-mating music for social rituals among young single >people, maybe loop music can occur in situations which encourage social >interaction (which is frequently rather limited) among mature, working >adults who may have families - maybe there's a new kind of social ritual >that could be created around this. This sound almost like: 'Dance for the young, meditation for the old' and 'Loops are for meditation' ... might be tendences, but I understand Kims cry for the new loop music: >resisting oppression by the ambient tyranny It seams that the loop music so far is somehow dominated by the old that participated on the its development on tapes (the name Echoplex unfortunately suggests this), while the new (or young) will develop much more with the extended technology, and therefore are more interesting (to me as musician and especially as developper) than the authentic reproduction or slight improvement of the old which of course also is of value. resisting the idea that meditation calls for old methods or old people Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:08 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 07:02:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnli8-00054S-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:02:44 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:58:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: A couple of responses Resent-Message-ID: <"J8NAO.A.kZE.QCjyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/79 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:02:44 -0700 X-UIDL: d9645feb920e968751476d50066368c6 Warren said: >Well, I love improvisation, and loop-based improv is especially >hypnotizing. I agree with the quote that it can (at least sometimes) >give us a window into the performer's soul. However, that is only of >concern to certain niche audiences. Most prefer an "entertainment >experience", which means tighter structure, clean transitions and >attention to pacing. Sometimes I want to cater to this and sometimes >not. My way is to improvise and edit afterwards to get a "tight structure" Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:11 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 07:42:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnmL0-0007Dq-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:42:54 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'loopers delight'" Subject: MIDI looping on a Mac Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:39:11 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 33 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"dX7usC.A.xiG.4ojyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/80 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:42:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 211c44322bd617ec59b4d8c98d4c1fee ----kIm flint writes--- It does seem like a pretty obvious use of midi to me. And you seem to be right, there aren't really any good tools that I know of for real-time midi looping. Plenty for non-real-time, of course. It would be interesting to hear from people who have cobbled together midi looping setups. kim ---end quote--- I have a Korg X-5 that came with Mark of the Unicorn's Freesytle MIDI sequencing software. I use that on PCI mac. You create a loop of X measures up in Freesytle then play and record the MIDI loop at same time. I've used this setup mainly for MIDI Percussion. I'm still learning Freesytle and havie not figured out how to switch between loops on the Fly. I seem to end up using the JamMan for guitar and synth sounds. My home studio is under construction so when I'm finished (In 2005 at the rate I'm going) I'll have to explore MIDI looping for sound. I'm also looking at getting MIDI/synth for guitar also. I can't seem to decide between a Roland GR-1 and the GR-30. Some mail order house have good prices on the GR-1 but no music store in the area seem to have one I can demo. Most have a VG-8 and GR-30 setup for demo. Can anyone Highlight the key differences between the GR-1 and GR-30 for me? I think the VG-8 is a bit pricey for me. later John From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:12 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 07:51:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnmTR-00006m-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:51:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:47:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #109 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QQQL9B.A.EKH.vwjyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/81 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:51:37 -0700 X-UIDL: ec2bee0f2a05a0b9cb1c644d80289889 > > Any other indulgent Fripp "Tribute" recordings out there? Anyone ever tried > to fool their friends with one, and gotten away with it? (I have, though I'm > not entirely sure how)! Well I did with with a one some of you know called "carcinoma in situ" I eventually chaged the whole thing after wards adding drums, fretless guitar guitar solo and Stick with a quotation from 'Pandora" (wh James mason and Ava Gardner). So the whole thing wasn't alike anymore. I must say that I must hank in his one Robbie Aceto who made possible by teaching me (through this list, one day) the idea of "wild sync". OM From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 08:50:14 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 08:09:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnmkf-0001CT-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:09:25 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Echoplex oddness check: Any volunteers? Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:05:49 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 23 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"-m297D.A.a8.PCkyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/82 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:09:25 -0700 X-UIDL: ef9f0386dfa8619681e67a25b7297ea4 Radio Shack sells "Color TV tuner Cleaner" this works well for cleaning any electrical contact. >---------- >From: matthias@bahianet.com.br >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Sent: Monday, July 14, 1997 9:58 AM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Re: Echoplex oddness check: Any volunteers? > > >>Cleaning pots you can do yourself, you should be >>able to get the stuff for that at an electronics parts shop. You might as >>well have it on hand, because anyone using electronic music gear will need >>it eventually. > >With contact spray? Air? > > > > From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 10:17:47 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 08:54:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnnSF-0004Jh-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:54:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:48:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Midi looping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VgSo4.A.LmD.Npkyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/84 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:54:27 -0700 X-UIDL: f3920b0961c7c1d0af4ebf82370bc5c2 In fact I use midi loops. The main reason is money. I still don't own one these beauties wa talk about so often. So, the only way to have long loops for me was 1) use my multitrack recorder to repaet muiscal (or not) phrases during as long as I want and do that many times then mix it, and doeas look almost like aloop (in fact not beacause you hear many subtle differences since one does not paly exactly the same thing twice, but well...) 2) I use my old Cubase 2.0 running on a not less old Atari 1040st, mich makes a midi delay you can programm as you want with the little detail that you can not have more than a full note as a delay length, but with a tempo of 30 running, it mean almost 8 second of delay which still is for me like heaven. The good thing is I can record the loop on midi, I can change the sounds whnever I want. I can edit it like i add a audio loop on a good direct to disk machine for 150 bucks. Well that is not true, you have to add the price of the synth guitar I use with. OM From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 22:11:26 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 13:17:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnrZ7-0007l6-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:17:49 -0700 Message-Id: <9707142014.AA29193@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:54:00 -0400 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Vortex pedal To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"dKDK8B.A.gtG.Bfoyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/87 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:17:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 9810b447c97732c098fd97ae10439d91 Jesse asked: "A music store today told me that they were getting a continuous control pedal from Lexicon directly for $30. Does this is exist or was the music store guy confused?" I think the store guy is confused. We offer no continuous control pedal for $30.00. The Dual footswitch does list for $30.00. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com P.S. Cogradulations Kim et al on your new release and thank you for this forum! From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 22:11:20 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 10:42:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnp9A-0004Ul-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:42:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199707141745.KAA12470@gw1.bi-tech.com> From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:37:19 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sp99u.A.ItD.APmyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/85 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:42:52 -0700 X-UIDL: db775b97722f6e185b0d84c8b65a1e38 > From: SoundFNR@aol.com > Part One > What makes a good amplification setup for loops in a > live context ? (any recomendations?) > Guitar amp for sound character. > Or a PA type system to accurately produce > a multi-layered effect. > Stereo? I'm using two EV-12L speakers in my stereo guitar rig and I love it. I'd highly recommend the speakers to anyone....very musical and "guitar" sounding. Unless you own a good speaker emulation or prefer that "direct" tone -- go with guitar cabinets. Having said that, on occasion I do record my loops direct to tape...it all depends on the end product desired. > Part Two > How does the sound 'quality' effect what > the player does with the loop? "Sound quality" is so subjective. Bottom line: you've got to be able to tolerate your tone/sound. If you hate the way your rig sounds, you aren't going to want to play. Matt From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 22:11:25 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 13:14:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnrW3-0007VZ-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:14:39 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:07:33 -0400 From: Michael Peters Subject: Age (of Aquarius) To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199707141607_MC2-1AD9-F690@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"7Vs-iD.A.QjG.Pdoyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/86 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:14:39 -0700 X-UIDL: f3736c394525f996baee97f5a7b142cc ok, maybe this will help to end the 'Age' thread: The average age of us is 33.4 (that is, the average age of the 48 loopers who have their bio on our website, and specified their age). btw, I'm 43. ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm Support the Warr Guitar Defense Fund http://home.earthlink.net/~greendog/warrfund.html From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 22:11:27 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 14:31:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnsif-0005YR-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:31:45 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970714213424.00accebc@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:34:24 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Age (of Aquarius) Resent-Message-ID: <"FLcHlB.A.z2E.Ampyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/88 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:31:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 3888aa79426b6cb9deb08ce3e3be56f0 At 04:07 PM 7/14/97 -0400, Michael Peters wrote: >ok, maybe this will help to end the 'Age' thread: > >The average age of us is 33.4 (that is, the average age of the 48 loopers >who have their bio on our website, and specified their age). min? max? median? standard deviation? Let's do some curve fitting! Why stop now? Looping demographics! Wow, this is great! :-) kim > > >btw, I'm 43. >___________ >Michael Peters > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters >HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm >Support the Warr Guitar Defense Fund > http://home.earthlink.net/~greendog/warrfund.html > > > > ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 22:11:34 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 17:04:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnv6E-0000hZ-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:04:14 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 18:58 CDT From: "kim corbet" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Age (of Sagitarius) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b2 Resent-Message-ID: <"MzYQWC.A.NP.D1ryz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/90 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:04:14 -0700 X-UIDL: ba2dfb6ee7768df3029bcdda12e63465 > Looping demographics! Wow, this is great! :-) oh, alright, jesus...I don't think I said in my bio... the spare kim is 44, but doesn't feel a day over NEXT friday. .....and I drive an '89 civic and my new wardrobe is from Target. From ???@??? Sun Sep 14 21:54:21 1997 >From kflint Sun Sep 14 18:12:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0xAPi4-0004mf-00; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:12:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33CACCF3.6F582EEF@ccnet.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:05:55 -0700 From: Roland Eberle Reply-To: roland@ccnet.com Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Echoplex upgrade X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"HXLxDD.A.VEE.LoIH0"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/515 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:12:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 98cff2968acb4d690a713a1c289c4c07 Kim or anyone... I just acquired a used plex...and on power up the software version shows 3.0 Is there any problem upgrading to the new v 5.0? or do I have to acquire 3.2 first? Can anyone confirm that Gibson has these upgrades in stock and ready to ship? Also..and I know this has been answered before probably but, as far as upgrading memory goes...is there any problem using 4x9 (parity) 30 pin simms (60 ns)? (is it possible for any older device to have architecture too slow to keep up with newer faster memory chips?)...Seems like all I can find are these newer 60ns parity chips...about $80 bucks for 16 megs on four simms...is that a decent price? will these new fast chips work appreciably better than some older 100 ns 3 chip non parity simms? I KNOW there must be some used or NOS 30 pin simms out there but I aint finding them. Anyway...TIA Roland From ???@??? Mon Jul 14 22:11:37 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 14 18:53:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wnwoE-0007jW-00; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:53:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970714214017.00685be4@infinitesound.com> X-Sender: verner@infinitesound.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:40:17 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: verner@infinitesound.com Subject: Plex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Nt00y.A.ooG.jTtyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/91 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:53:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 0ec9ee938776be4258b8e7b60f1eecf7 I'm an Aquarius - now let's stop all this age related nonsense and get on with the music stuff? OK. Now did I miss something? What's the procedure for getting the upgrade, how much does it cost, do we swap chips, etc? J. Arif Verner Infinite Sound Studio http://www.infinitesound.com/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 15 22:34:56 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 20:51:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woL7K-0004Jj-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:51:06 -0700 X-Sender: ngold@mail.imagina.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:48:54 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: Re: Midi looping Resent-Message-ID: <"5rBnt.A.W1D.KSEzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/97 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:51:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 2f283cf7360f79a1f89bc78974298eb0 >Do you think this would be useful to actually create, manipulate, and >generally perform looping in a live context? (making the process the >performance, rather than a final result) Are the realtime tools available >compelling enough to make this interesting? Or is it more geared to >composing and recording in the studio? (same questions for the previously >mentioned MOTU Freestyle) Personally, these tools are most beneficial for composing and recording in more structured ways, and nurturing ideas which may later be performed, the last being sort of a nice definition for "practicing". OTOH, The combination of (in my case JamMan) a loop device and audio sequencer provide the best of both worlds, enabling for example, syncing of the loop device via midi (where midi sets the loop length simply through defining a click or playing an instrumental groove; and/or capturing the "acoustic" loop created in the device to the computer, for further audio processing and adding midi tracks, or extracting a "groove" track from your playing to be applied to other tracks. Effects, synth patches, sampling CDs, acoustic instruments...the mind boggles at the vast colors at our fingers for affordable prices. The exciting thing about this stuff is the many possibilities opened up by marrying midi, computers, and the evolving stand-alone devices we talk about here. The vast alchemy of that which we create and that which we discover. >One thing I really like about the jamman/echoplex/boomerang style of looper >is the immediacy of it - they are very easy and intuitive for improvising >and performing. Are any of the midi looping tools out there well geared to >that sort of approach? I'd really like to experiment with this more. > I think the difference is whether one is using the computer sequencer vs a stand-alone hardware sequencer. The computer stuff is more powerful and easily visible, but has that layer of complexity and overhead introduced by the computer, that is not performance friendly. I've read of techno bands who use computer sequencers on stage and vary their perfomances with these tools. It does take a lot of preparation and having Plan B available. Sounds like too much computing, planning and not enough playing for my taste. Which brings us full circle back to our friendly real-time loop devices :-) Neil ngold@imagina.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Tue Jul 15 09:46:24 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 00:50:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wo2NN-00040P-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:50:25 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970714214017.00685be4@infinitesound.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:26:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"KsLDPB.A.peD.Tryyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/92 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:50:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 1414502b78f79d2beabf5943370b7bf0 At 9:40 PM -0400 7/14/97, verner@infinitesound.com wrote: >I'm an Aquarius - now let's stop all this age related nonsense and get on >with the music stuff? OK. Even though I'm a scorpio, I'll try to reply: >Now did I miss something? What's the procedure for getting the upgrade, how >much does it cost, do we swap chips, etc? > >J. Arif Verner All of this will be Oberheim's policies, which I don't really know in any detail, so I'll leave to them to describe. Your best bet is to contact them directly and ask. Their customer service person is: Dean Fouts , Phone is 510-635-9633. It will involve swapping two eproms. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 15 09:46:23 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 00:50:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wo2NI-0003zg-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:50:20 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:41:34 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Midi looping Resent-Message-ID: <"sewHGC.A.KfD.Wryyz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/93 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:50:20 -0700 X-UIDL: d2ff01dc88c7585359f75e53d5eb5d6b At 2:52 PM -0700 7/13/97, Neil Goldstein wrote: >As a long time midi user and looper I recently moved over to Logic Audio >for a few key reasons (related to looping): > >Real time tweaking of all sound parmeters without stopping. Cubase has this >too. > >Unique to Logic: A mode in which you can track as many takes as you like in >"loop" mode, where the previous takes are muted, and you are automatically >moved to the next track, so you have a virtual looper/multi track. After >recording all the takes you want, you can unmute, quantize, change sound >parameters, etc. without stopping. This feature alone sold me on Logic, >despite its reputation as having a steep learning curve. Do you think this would be useful to actually create, manipulate, and generally perform looping in a live context? (making the process the performance, rather than a final result) Are the realtime tools available compelling enough to make this interesting? Or is it more geared to composing and recording in the studio? (same questions for the previously mentioned MOTU Freestyle) One thing I really like about the jamman/echoplex/boomerang style of looper is the immediacy of it - they are very easy and intuitive for improvising and performing. Are any of the midi looping tools out there well geared to that sort of approach? I'd really like to experiment with this more. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 15 22:34:49 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 13:56:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woEeM-00012b-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:56:46 -0700 Message-ID: <33CB42C9.4F3@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:31:04 +0100 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping References: <199707141745.KAA12470@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mUhl6.A.cY.2L-yz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/95 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:56:46 -0700 X-UIDL: a059a48344a5a5d227a50782b15417d7 >I'm using two EV-12L speakers in my stereo guitar rig and I love it. >I'd >highly recommend the speakers to anyone....very musical and "guitar" >sounding. I was using two closed back (ported) cabinets loaded with EV 12L's, and they sounded really good. But then I replaced the 12L's with Celestion 25 watt greenbacks, and now they sound awsome!! I feel that the 12L's are too full range for guitar. They sound sterile and flat compared to the warm, thick, middy sound of the greenbacks. Compared side to side, the greenbacks sounded much more like an electric guitar. The down side is that the greenbacks don't work as well as PA speaker if you are running other instuments through the looper(s). The workaround we've found (my brother Chris is a greenback convert too!) is to patch the instuments into a mixer (minimum: 4 buss) with the looper inputs fed from the effects sends (preferabley pre-fader) and the looper outputs fed back into the main inputs of the board. Busses 1 & 2 feed the greenbacks (all guitar sounds and loops) and busses 3 & 4 feed PA cabinets (other instruments and effects). We use rackmount tube guitar amplifiers for the greenbacks and highpower solid state amps for the PA. With more busses, and loopers (we use 5) the individual intruments and loopers can be placed spatially/speaker. From ???@??? Tue Jul 15 09:46:25 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 06:47:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wo7wd-0002tL-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:47:11 -0700 Message-ID: <33CB8CD5.1C89@fredmarshall.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:44:44 -0800 From: fred marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Age (of Aquarius) References: <199707141607_MC2-1AD9-F690@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WcVYYB.A.ofC.853yz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/94 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:47:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 91d41180a90459581ffff59c985b5214 Michael Peters wrote: > > ok, maybe this will help to end the 'Age' thread: > > The average age of us is 33.4 (that is, the average age of the 48 loopers > who have their bio on our website, and specified their age). > > > > btw, I'm 43. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - hope this doesn't throw a hitch into the math . . . but this one is still driving a 1938 Memphis (meat suit) . . . - btw, in a fit of gererosity i wrote: - >>- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything) - somene answered: "You've never been bored by ANYTHING? What an excruciatingly relentless parade of excitement your life must be...you need to watch more television, my friend " IT IS ! ! ! (even the television machine) - The suggestion "- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear" . . . has worked so far - every sound we make is as likely to be our last as it is to be the next to last . . . and messing around with the silence carries its own responsibilities, just as when you make a mark on a perfectly clean piece of paper you're taking on picasso and the egyptians and the Tibetans and . . . not to fear . . . they're good company - as are bird and bud and trane and diz and all the people in the world who make sounds/art because "they can't help theirselfs" . . . "I used to think that musicians were real disciplined to be able to practice a lot and get good on their instruments . . . then i married one and it didn't take no time at all to figure out that they just can't help theirselfs" - Appalachin woman I'd like to invite everyone on this side of the oceans and mountains to come hear our trio (marshall arts), loops and all, at the Monterey Jazz Festival, September 20, 1997 . . . and also to hear the streaming sample (no waiting) on our site at www.fredmarshall.com (my son, joshi, now 25 is the one playing the alto and tenor at the same time) - as to the age thing, only the temporary meat suit is interested in that kind of thing and after all, that's the same one that has the house key in its hand when YOU want to get into the car . . . sometimes i wish i could get the poor thing some more ram . . . - drive crazy . . . * mmmmmmm * - a hell's angel friend decided that was his version of "break a leg" From ???@??? Tue Jul 15 22:34:52 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 15:45:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woGLP-0000lD-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:45:19 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199707152242.PAA29057@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping To: antonc@earthlink.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <33CB42C9.4F3@earthlink.net> from "Anton Chovit" at Jul 15, 97 10:31:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LWGClB.A.qe.jz_yz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/96 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:45:19 -0700 X-UIDL: c65492e79138fc97069b7c296f0205df How about the bass players in the group? Any comments? Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jul 15 22:34:57 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 22:34:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woMjQ-0002K2-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:34:32 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 00:31 CDT From: "kim corbet" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Midi looping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b2 Resent-Message-ID: <"2oIEQ.A.k9B.0yFzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/98 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:34:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 9e45b109c5aa807b8f79a67a40d63c3f > >Do you think this would be useful to actually create, manipulate, and > >generally perform looping in a live context? ..........in a comatheatre concert ("The Lorca Project") presented this weekend in Dallas, I'll be using a boomerang and jambooty to capture bits of live and recorded music (including prerecorded looped material), sound effects, live and recorded wordplay, etc. coming at me from 3 improvisational sources. My personal station also includes DAT tapes, CDs and processed acoustic sources (talking drum, occarina, melodica, etc.)...all of which may be looped for beds or lingering melodies. This complex sound environment supports dance, video and projections...nothing involving the loopers is planned...my success will be based on experience and reflexes that, with luck, will result in split-second timing that will SEEM like a tightly controled performance. That attitude spreads to the rest of the performance. We have rehearsed staged events that will become tools, like the loopers, to be added and manipulated as the "need" arises and, again, to the audience, place everything else (intended or circumstantial) in meaningful relief. Beyond that, an opening and ending give an exacting form to what is usually a totally free performance ethic. Tools and toys...live or studio...fun fun fun. From ???@??? Wed Jul 16 03:22:00 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 15 23:47:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woNs3-0005Ms-00; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:47:31 -0700 Message-ID: <33CC7051.C73@dmans.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:55:13 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: First gig Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BWZucD.A.e5E.E4Gzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/99 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:47:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 3ea9373e5d9604e980ee2753b59eabfb Hi, gang. Just wanted to tell about my first solo gig and my first REAL looping gig. Sure I've played gigs with looping devices around. The bass player in my band uses a Boomerang, but it isn't prominent or obvious; it's important, but we could actually play without it, and did so in the past. This gig was a set I performed at a local (Dallas,TX) club called Club Dada. The band consisted of me, my guitar, amp, Yamaha GW-10 effects processor, and a Boomerang. This setting is a regular open mic happening that typically alternates bands and solos or duos. The bands are typically rock while the solos are usually folkies, so my electric, instrumental, loop thing was definitely not a sure bet. However, the crowd response couldn't have been better; there was generous applause after each tune. It was really gratifying. I plan to return in a few weeks. The irony of the evening came with the band that followed me. At the beginning of my set I did a little spiel about nothing being pre-recorded; I reassured the audience that what they were hearing was all performed live right before their eyes, uh, ears. They seemed to get it. Well, how was I to know that the following band, a power trio with a lead singer, relied heavily on pre-recorded tapes that the sound man ran for them? The guitar player actually handled it well by saying right up front, "Well, our band uses lots of pre-recorded material... but we recorded it." For those who haven't caught this before, my style is not ambient at all, but wide ranging pop/rock instrumentals. Finger picked to shuffle to bluesy to jazz tinged to heavy to noise. I'm now excited about performing again and incorporating some of the hints about involving the audience that I picked up here. Since I have played in bands my whole life, I am relieved to have the first solo gig behind me. I was getting a little mental over it. Motley From ???@??? Wed Jul 16 22:52:04 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 16 11:26:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woYms-0001bl-00; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:26:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:38:23 +0400 Message-ID: <00002A1F.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re[2]: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, "Robert S. Carter" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"I02PRB.A.r5.oDRzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/101 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:26:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 96cd57dc71b1d78276101db4607f4fc0 Robert S. Carter: >So I send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are >as one. Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced >to clock), I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is >a perfectly timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a >backdrop for more syncronized synth patterns and noises. How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI clock? I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but did not succeed. Miguel From ???@??? Wed Jul 16 09:19:37 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 16 09:19:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woWny-0000AR-00; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:19:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:12:38 +0000 From: "Robert S. Carter" Subject: Re: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu Message-id: <33CCBAB4.315@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Resent-Message-ID: <"J7fCj.A.K6G.rMPzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/100 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:19:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e38cf006202be3f5e0429960b828fba Neil Goldstein wrote: > > OTOH, The combination of (in my case JamMan) a loop device and audio > sequencer provide the best of both worlds, enabling for example, syncing of > the loop device via midi (where midi sets the loop length simply through > defining a click or playing an instrumental groove; and/or capturing the > "acoustic" loop created in the device to the computer, for further audio > processing and adding midi tracks, or extracting a "groove" track from your > playing to be applied to other tracks. Neil's observation pretty much sums up my idea of MIDI looping. I do a lot in the studio with the JamMan slaved to my sequencer and then capture the loops to tape or sampler. But there's more to it, I'm big on MIDI syncronized synth arpeggiation and rhythmic LFOs. I've got a Nord Lead synth which I can get up to 4 parts of syncronized rhythmic noises going, the key being the external MIDI clock source. In the studio I usually use the computer sequencer for a clock even if not sequencing. In performance, however, I do one of two things and sometimes use a MIDI patchbay to switch between the following. The first option is using the JamMAn as the master clock. The one disadvantage with that is that if you aren't in loop mode or in loop mode but have no loop going there is no clock transmitted and the synth is now lost. So the other option is a portable clock source- I use a MIDI solutions "pedal controller", a small $60 device that allows you to tap tempo and send MIDI clock. So I send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are as one. Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced to clock), I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is a perfectly timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a backdrop for more syncronized synth patterns and noises. Concerning the Nord Lead synth in live performance (no sequencer), I use a little trick to accomplish what I geuss can be considered a particular type of MIDI looping. The Nord has four buttons for each of the available patches. If I play a patch (again I'm usually talking about arpeggiated patterns or rhythmic LFOs), hold down the sustain pedal and switch to another patch, the original patch is held permenantly until I switch back to it and give it a note off with the sustain pedal. This is an advatageous use of what is familiarly known as a MIDI stuck note (usually a very bad thing). So by strategic latching of the patches I can get a four part loop going all synced up with each other and with the JamMan. Then I move on to one of my non-MIDI analogue synths looped with the non-MIDI Vortex synced to the very innaccurate clock in my head. BOB. From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:22 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 15:02:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpL6z-0002MW-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:02:53 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Negative Eye" To: Squidlyguy@aol.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:42:39 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hard disk recording/looping Reply-to: juma@cyberia.net.ar Priority: normal In-reply-to: <970717180028_-392183885@emout06.mail.aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"pTZjMC.A.7pB.-Z-zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/119 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:02:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 048ed6d04f441d6f89016a8e719c9637 On 17 Jul 97 at 18:00, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.co wrote: > Hey everyone - this question has to do with recording and looping onto a PC > (I believe some of you loop in this fashion). I'm hoping to get a new PC > (200 MHz) pretty soon, and want to be able to multitrack my guitar "noises" > onto the hard drive (I don't have an ADAT or separate hard disk recorder). > However, I'd like to be able to listen to the previously recorded tracks > while laying down the next one. I guess I'll need full duplex capability on > whatever sound card that I get. Hello Brian, I have a card called Sountrack 97 PCI. It can play 8 stereo waves at the time. (Not from software, but from hardware. It's full duplex. It has some nice delays, reberbs, chorus, and EQ to "shape" the output. 32 to 48 MIDI channels. etc... It's a beauty. Try : www.hoontech.co.kr OR st.cyso.net If you are in the US, perhaps you wish to contact it's national distributor Mr Peter Larson < petel@foothills.eznet.com > > Any suggestions on what would be the ideal (and/or affordable!) hardware This card costs "around nothing" considering it's capabilities (220 U$S +/ -) > Also, does any of the software offer looping capabilities? Father of loops were the "Analog Sequencers" (I'd love to have one). For MIDI, I found a software sequencer with "analog feel", SEQ 303. Try it here: http://www.technotoys.com/seq303.htm Also, Cakewalk 3 has a loop option but it cannot handle audio. Hope It Helps Good Luck, Juan Manuel Aguirre aka ->thE negativE eyE -->negativE visioN --->negativE imagE From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:29 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 18:54:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpOjA-0001L8-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:54:32 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Negative Eye" To: ZeplinSoup@aol.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:32:11 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Him/HerselF (Re: Recommended Listening) Reply-to: juma@cyberia.net.ar Priority: normal In-reply-to: <970718141654_-725789418@emout19.mail.aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"dyY3KB.A.O9.d1B0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/121 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:54:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 560eb9c3a13f73774c00d88bf12d8e23 Hello Reeve and Loopers, On 18 Jul 97 at 14:17, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.co wrote: > Who Do You Recommend the aspiring Looper listen to? (Beware of too much listening!) If you want YOUR music to develop as you do, Listen to yourself! Find yourself in your OWN expression. Understand yourself! "Second parts never were good!" ....If you understan me Hope It Helps Juan Manuel Aguirre aka ->thE negativE eyE -->negativE visioN --->negativE imagE From ???@??? Wed Jul 16 22:52:20 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 16 17:36:43 1997 Received: from mail.exapps.com [206.243.128.7] by ferret with esmtp (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woeYg-0004Om-00; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:36:39 -0700 Received: by mail.exapps.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <3PK0ANRG>; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:38:02 -0400 Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F0E2053@mail.exapps.com> From: David Kirkdorffer To: Kim Flint , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: MIDI looping -- MAX & The Aphex Twin Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:38:00 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain X-UIDL: 9f196d39afec094f94ca0b1e574113f0 Kim Wrote: Other than that I would suggest using Max, which is a graphical/object-oriented midi programming environment for the mac. It's a great tool, created at IRCAM in France and sold by Opcode. I think the sample applications that max even comes with even includes a midi delay and a looper. I think it would be fairly easy to create a powerful midi looping application with max. You could even design a nice big, custom gui. I'd be surprised if someone hadn't already done this, actually. > For those that care -- I think this is what Richard James is using > nowadays to create his brand of music. > > David Kirkdorffer > > From ???@??? Wed Jul 16 22:52:20 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 16 17:40:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woec9-0004oB-00; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:40:13 -0700 Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F0E2053@mail.exapps.com> From: David Kirkdorffer To: Kim Flint , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: MIDI looping -- MAX & The Aphex Twin Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:38:00 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"YnuFVC.A.MME.akWzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/102 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:40:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 4b717cdb5cf55c9360a9f8eb8622a1c1 Kim Wrote: Other than that I would suggest using Max, which is a graphical/object-oriented midi programming environment for the mac. It's a great tool, created at IRCAM in France and sold by Opcode. I think the sample applications that max even comes with even includes a midi delay and a looper. I think it would be fairly easy to create a powerful midi looping application with max. You could even design a nice big, custom gui. I'd be surprised if someone hadn't already done this, actually. > For those that care -- I think this is what Richard James is using > nowadays to create his brand of music. > > David Kirkdorffer > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 10:40:44 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 10:22:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wouFv-0005l1-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:22:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:10:45 +0400 Message-ID: <00002B96.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re[2]: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, "Robert S. Carter" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"4W5zFB.A.dEF.iPlzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/104 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:22:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 94c4da7ef973ad19153ac86b81872e4c Sorry for showing you this JamMan very nice "feature"... Keep me informed if you find a workaround. I am also including the explanation I got from Bob Sellon: Miguel, There are two possible causes for the noise I can think of; one you can fix the other you can't. When Jamman is slaved to an external MIDI clock it determines the end of the loop by itself based on the tempo of the clock and the number of beats selected on the front panel. If the operator tries to end the loop manually, the resulting loop will very likely be shorter than it should be. When the loop is too short, Jamman restarts the loop twice: once when the end of the loop (time) is detected and once when the correct number of MIDI clocks has come in. The solution is to let Jamman close the loop by itself (DON'T tap a second time). This will get the loops size to it's best fit. The second cause is based on the jitter on the incoming MIDI clocks and the resolution of Jamman itself. At best, Jamman can lock in a loop size to within half a millisecond (512us). The problem is that most MIDI clock sources have jitter (timing variations) in the same neighborhood. After the loop time is locked in, the priority in Jamman is to stay in perfect sync with the incoming MIDI clock. The problem is that the combined half millisecond resolution of Jamman and the jitter on the incoming clock result in the actual size of the loop changing very slightly every time through. As the loop size changes, Jamman either shortens the loop or replays the very beginning of the loop to compensate resulting in potential clicks and pops. With the PC itself being slaved the jitter gets worse and so do the clicks and pops. As I said, there is currently no work-around for this other than, as you said, not playing anything at the loop edge. The only other thing I can suggest (which is equally klugey), is to place something percussive at the splice point which will tend to mask the noise. I am looking at the problem, however, and will let you know if I come up with anything. If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd love to hear it. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec bsellon@lexicon.com Regards, Miguel ___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________ Assunto: Re: Midi looping Autor: "Robert S. Carter" na INTERNET Data: 17/07/1900 11:38 Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home after reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the hell out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it can be annoying. Once layered with the multiple loops I get going on the Nord synth I think it's barely noticable (or at least it used to be). I geuss I might reconsider ways use the JamMan as the master. The problem is I need clock before recording a loop and the JamMan won't do that. But now I'm thinking I could record a blank loop to generate clock from the JamMan and then use punch-in mode to record the now synced synth. I'll have to try this tonite. BOB. MAT wrote: > > Robert S. Carter: > > >So I send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are > >as one. Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced > >to clock), I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is > >a perfectly timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a > >backdrop for more syncronized synth patterns and noises. > > How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that > appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI > clock? > > I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but > did not succeed. > > Miguel > From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 09:31:34 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 09:01:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wot04-0000Df-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:01:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:38:11 +0000 From: "Robert S. Carter" Subject: Re: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu Message-id: <33CE0422.1043@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <"00002A1F."@poyry.com.br> Resent-Message-ID: <"CWUTZD.A.yHH.yCkzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/103 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:01:52 -0700 X-UIDL: f16deccc24a125f9e479e958bc4d62b6 Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home after reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the hell out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it can be annoying. Once layered with the multiple loops I get going on the Nord synth I think it's barely noticable (or at least it used to be). I geuss I might reconsider ways use the JamMan as the master. The problem is I need clock before recording a loop and the JamMan won't do that. But now I'm thinking I could record a blank loop to generate clock from the JamMan and then use punch-in mode to record the now synced synth. I'll have to try this tonite. BOB. MAT wrote: > > Robert S. Carter: > > >So I send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are > >as one. Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced > >to clock), I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is > >a perfectly timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a > >backdrop for more syncronized synth patterns and noises. > > How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that > appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI > clock? > > I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but > did not succeed. > > Miguel > From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 19:34:13 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 13:22:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wox4d-000395-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:22:51 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:59:09 +0400 Message-ID: <00002BBF.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re[4]: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight , "Hogan; Greg" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"7E-GrD.A.imC.94nzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/106 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:22:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 9f22ab9546780ab7a00da5acc75d4a14 Hi Greg, I am almost sure my JamMan is not broken (I will perform the test you suggest to be sure) but the noise exists as confirmed by Bob Sellon on the following mail: Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight Miguel, There are two possible causes for the noise I can think of; one you can fix the other you can't. When Jamman is slaved to an external MIDI clock it determines the end of the loop by itself based on the tempo of the clock and the number of beats selected on the front panel. If the operator tries to end the loop manually, the resulting loop will very likely be shorter than it should be. When the loop is too short, Jamman restarts the loop twice: once when the end of the loop (time) is detected and once when the correct number of MIDI clocks has come in. The solution is to let Jamman close the loop by itself (DON'T tap a second time). This will get the loops size to it's best fit. The second cause is based on the jitter on the incoming MIDI clocks and the resolution of Jamman itself. At best, Jamman can lock in a loop size to within half a millisecond (512us). The problem is that most MIDI clock sources have jitter (timing variations) in the same neighborhood. After the loop time is locked in, the priority in Jamman is to stay in perfect sync with the incoming MIDI clock. The problem is that the combined half millisecond resolution of Jamman and the jitter on the incoming clock result in the actual size of the loop changing very slightly every time through. As the loop size changes, Jamman either shortens the loop or replays the very beginning of the loop to compensate resulting in potential clicks and pops. With the PC itself being slaved the jitter gets worse and so do the clicks and pops. As I said, there is currently no work-around for this other than, as you said, not playing anything at the loop edge. The only other thing I can suggest (which is equally klugey), is to place something percussive at the splice point which will tend to mask the noise. I am looking at the problem, however, and will let you know if I come up with anything. If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd love to hear it. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec bsellon@lexicon.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert S. Carter also listens to the glitch, see his mail: Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home after reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the hell out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it can be annoying. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, I thik we have to live with it until some kind of upgrade happens. Regards, Miguel ============================================================================ Miguel asked "How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI clock? I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but did not succeed." Miguel, There must be something wrong with your JAMMAN. Even if a loop is not spliced together perfectly there should be no added noise at the splice point. Certainly if the end and begining of a loop are not either silent or matched perfectly you will here a glitch but this is not an added noise it is only what you here when you jump between two different sounds or tones. Either you are not matching the end and beginning loops or you have a broken JAMMAN. If you record a loop of silence you should find is that at the end/beginning of the loop(what I would call the splice point) is actually more silent then the rest of the loop. If this is not the case and there is noise at the splice point therte is a problem with the machine. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 19:34:19 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 15:16:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woyqB-0003i5-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:16:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:15:06 +0400 Message-ID: <00002BD9.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re[4]: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight , "Hogan; Greg" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"LuQaoD.A.iOD.Bkpzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/108 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:16:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 308d41dcb902577df2dfbefe08f981f8 Hi Greg, I am almost sure my JamMan is not broken (I will perform the test you suggest to be sure) but the noise exists as confirmed by Bob Sellon on the following mail: Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight Miguel, There are two possible causes for the noise I can think of; one you can fix the other you can't. When Jamman is slaved to an external MIDI clock it determines the end of the loop by itself based on the tempo of the clock and the number of beats selected on the front panel. If the operator tries to end the loop manually, the resulting loop will very likely be shorter than it should be. When the loop is too short, Jamman restarts the loop twice: once when the end of the loop (time) is detected and once when the correct number of MIDI clocks has come in. The solution is to let Jamman close the loop by itself (DON'T tap a second time). This will get the loops size to it's best fit. The second cause is based on the jitter on the incoming MIDI clocks and the resolution of Jamman itself. At best, Jamman can lock in a loop size to within half a millisecond (512us). The problem is that most MIDI clock sources have jitter (timing variations) in the same neighborhood. After the loop time is locked in, the priority in Jamman is to stay in perfect sync with the incoming MIDI clock. The problem is that the combined half millisecond resolution of Jamman and the jitter on the incoming clock result in the actual size of the loop changing very slightly every time through. As the loop size changes, Jamman either shortens the loop or replays the very beginning of the loop to compensate resulting in potential clicks and pops. With the PC itself being slaved the jitter gets worse and so do the clicks and pops. As I said, there is currently no work-around for this other than, as you said, not playing anything at the loop edge. The only other thing I can suggest (which is equally klugey), is to place something percussive at the splice point which will tend to mask the noise. I am looking at the problem, however, and will let you know if I come up with anything. If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd love to hear it. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec bsellon@lexicon.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert S. Carter also listens to the glitch, see his mail: Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home after reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the hell out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it can be annoying. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, I thik we have to live with it until some kind of upgrade happens. Regards, Miguel ============================================================================ Miguel asked "How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI clock? I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but did not succeed." Miguel, There must be something wrong with your JAMMAN. Even if a loop is not spliced together perfectly there should be no added noise at the splice point. Certainly if the end and begining of a loop are not either silent or matched perfectly you will here a glitch but this is not an added noise it is only what you here when you jump between two different sounds or tones. Either you are not matching the end and beginning loops or you have a broken JAMMAN. If you record a loop of silence you should find is that at the end/beginning of the loop(what I would call the splice point) is actually more silent then the rest of the loop. If this is not the case and there is noise at the splice point therte is a problem with the machine. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 19:34:09 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 12:29:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wowFQ-0006gK-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:29:56 -0700 Message-Id: <9707171927.AA07795@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:03:00 -0400 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Re[2]: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"NUVDRB.A.n-F.WHnzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/105 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:29:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 28ebfc367cd8049e26cbb77c8681b9d7 ---------- From: Hogan, Greg Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 9:09 AM To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: Re[2]: Midi looping Miguel asked "How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI clock? I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but did not succeed." Miguel, There must be something wrong with your JAMMAN. Even if a loop is not spliced together perfectly there should be no added noise at the splice point. Certainly if the end and begining of a loop are not either silent or matched perfectly you will here a glitch but this is not an added noise it is only what you here when you jump between two different sounds or tones. Either you are not matching the end and beginning loops or you have a broken JAMMAN. If you record a loop of silence you should find is that at the end/beginning of the loop(what I would call the splice point) is actually more silent then the rest of the loop. If this is not the case and there is noise at the splice point therte is a problem with the machine. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 19:34:17 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 15:04:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0woyf2-0002oa-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:04:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:00:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Squidlyguy@aol.com Message-ID: <970717180028_-392183885@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hard disk recording/looping Resent-Message-ID: <"3a6JAB.A.AZC.EZpzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/107 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:04:32 -0700 X-UIDL: cd972e6494e0a24ced3d8f02e4bcd321 Hey everyone - this question has to do with recording and looping onto a PC (I believe some of you loop in this fashion). I'm hoping to get a new PC (200 MHz) pretty soon, and want to be able to multitrack my guitar "noises" onto the hard drive (I don't have an ADAT or separate hard disk recorder). However, I'd like to be able to listen to the previously recorded tracks while laying down the next one. I guess I'll need full duplex capability on whatever sound card that I get. Any suggestions on what would be the ideal (and/or affordable!) hardware and software to achieve this type of setup? Right now I'm just concerned about recording my rack system through the line in (with power attenuator, speaker simulator, etc.), but might eventually get into the MIDI aspect of everything. Does the differences between Cakewalk 5.0 and Pro Audio 6.0 make much of a difference for these applications? Also, does any of the software offer looping capabilities? Thanks for any help. Brian - Feel free to e-mail me if you have any suggestions From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 19:34:25 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 17:12:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wp0et-0004Ar-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:12:31 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 18:08:19 MDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: Echoplex upgrade update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"o0rw1B.A.GtD.NRrzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/109 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:12:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 41ade817ce9c2df9086275b6318b385a Loop folk, Being a 40yr old, near sighted, blue eyed, long haired, Capricorn ..., I wrote to Dean Fouts, Kevin Philbin, and Mike Lyon regarding the EDP software upgrade. They did not reply, but Pat Murphy did. Here is what I heard back from Gibson about the Echoplex upgrade: >Bret >From what I have heard, the cost will be $45 for the upgrade. I am not sure >how it will be handled. I have also heard that it will be a few more weeks >before the upgrade is available in the real world. >thanks >Pat Murphy I will let you know when I hear more. Many thanks to Kim, Matthias and clan for bringing this software upgrade (as well as the EDP itself) to fruition. regards, bret From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 19:34:26 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 17:24:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wp0qe-00058k-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:24:40 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Hard disk recording/looping Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:21:08 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 53 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"4_2VQB.A.UmE.zcrzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/110 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:24:40 -0700 X-UIDL: c2cef6fd18ce331dd6d4c0dc8be8d2c8 On the Mac side there is Deck II. I've used it for years, great program. You can loop with it. You use it with the buit in DSP on powermacs, quadra av's or with cards from Digidesign or Korg. You can check it out at the Macromedia web site Http://www.macromedia.com/ Mark of theUnicorn makes a program called Digital Performer that combines MIDI and HD recording, I suppose you can loop with that also. I think it is available for PC's also. Don't use it myself. I do use their Freesytle sequencer and Unisynth Patch Librian software om a powermac. web: Http://www.motu.com/ Both have good tech support and user e-mailing lists. later John >---------- >From: Squidlyguy@aol.com >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 6:00 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Hard disk recording/looping > >Hey everyone - this question has to do with recording and looping onto a PC >(I believe some of you loop in this fashion). I'm hoping to get a new PC >(200 MHz) pretty soon, and want to be able to multitrack my guitar "noises" >onto the hard drive (I don't have an ADAT or separate hard disk recorder). > However, I'd like to be able to listen to the previously recorded tracks >while laying down the next one. I guess I'll need full duplex capability on >whatever sound card that I get. Any suggestions on what would be the ideal >(and/or affordable!) hardware and software to achieve this type of setup? > Right now I'm just concerned about recording my rack system through the line >in (with power attenuator, speaker simulator, etc.), but might eventually get >into the MIDI aspect of everything. Does the differences between Cakewalk >5.0 and Pro Audio 6.0 make much of a difference for these applications? > Also, does any of the software offer looping capabilities? Thanks for any >help. > > >Brian > > - Feel free to e-mail me if you have any suggestions > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 17 19:34:27 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 17 17:52:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wp1HW-0006y5-00; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:52:26 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:48:59 -0400 (EDT) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970717204850_592813264@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall - EMS Resent-Message-ID: <"crP-eC.A.cVG.62rzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/111 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:52:26 -0700 X-UIDL: da70c7bd3144fba3b9249fa92704d1cb In a message dated 97-07-13 23:05:23 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: Let The Power Fall - EMS Date: 97-07-13 23:05:23 EDT From: PainPete@aol.com Resent-from: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Funny, I always thought SSOSFAGTIACAGWAP was largely sped-up spliced tape loops of Roger Waters acting like small jungle mammals. Could we both be right perhaps? In a message dated 97-07-13 15:35:54 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: RE: Let The Power Fall - EMS Date: 97-07-13 15:35:54 EDT From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Resent-from: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/13/97 5:23:32 PM, you wrote: <> With not one but two AKS's. Sorry I left them out. Didn't mean to. I think they had been messing with EMS stuff for a bit before "Dark Side". Roger's "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving With A Pict" (which I assume everyone on this list is familiar with-off of "Ummagumma".) is done with vocals but I think it was set up with the AKS and the vocal parts were added on top. The reason I think that is because I once got the very same type of rythymic chant kind of sound off the AKS. It was very weird and another example of the unique qualities of this synth. Jim (Portland, OR) >> >> From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 03:10:11 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 00:54:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wp7rT-0005Pf-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:53:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:52:58 -0500 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: A couple of Responses To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <33CF12CA.DBD@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3.0.32.19970712182251.007341bc@texas.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"TC9xAC.A.n7E.HCyzz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/112 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:53:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 5bcfd65ca4a60ecc614d9adf74d6d849 Randy Jones wrote: > Hey I was 15 thirty three years ago. No one is older than me here!!! Hey, I was 15 thirty-seven years ago... -- John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:01 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 11:46:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpI34-0005zl-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:46:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:42:47 +0400 Message-ID: <00002C61.@poyry.com.br> x-inex-return-receipt-to: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re: Recommended Listening To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ZeplinSoup@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"Nn_KcC.A.yTF.Kk7zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/114 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:46:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 70bb492bbfe254d06bac08856bb29c4e Terry Riley => A rainbow over curved air; David Sylvian => Gone to earth Matthias Grob => Musica aguariana para viajar-se David Sylvian => Seecrets from the beehive Fripp/Eno => Evening Star Robert Fripp => Easter Sunday Have fun!!! Miguel ___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________ Assunto: Recommended Listening Autor: ZeplinSoup@aol.com na INTERNET Data: 18/07/1900 14:17 I have heard Fripp with King Crimson and Bowie but am unfamilair with other works.David Torn have heard of but not heard... Who Do You Recommend the aspiring Looper listen to? Reeve From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:01 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 11:23:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpHgY-0004Ok-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:23:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:17:59 -0400 (EDT) From: ZeplinSoup@aol.com Message-ID: <970718141654_-725789418@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Recommended Listening Resent-Message-ID: <"PQlYiD.A.-xD.bO7zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/113 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:23:22 -0700 X-UIDL: cb193f678b3668fe34e47650e8601e88 I have heard Fripp with King Crimson and Bowie but am unfamilair with other works.David Torn have heard of but not heard... Who Do You Recommend the aspiring Looper listen to? Reeve From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:06 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 13:50:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpJyW-0005aI-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:50:04 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:44:38 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: RE: Hard disk recording/looping Resent-Message-ID: <"IALllB.A.k5E.5W9zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/115 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:50:04 -0700 X-UIDL: eaf2638fec665cf4d4ba4d02cffdd482 John Ott said: >On the Mac side there is Deck II. I've used it for years, >great program. You can loop with it. I am using DECK for years, too, but never for looping, just for editing loops. Could you explain how DECK helps you for looping in praxis... not so much the handling, but in the musical sense? Thank you Matthias From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:06 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 13:55:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpK4D-000614-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:55:57 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:51:15 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Recommended Listening Resent-Message-ID: <"pKgqTB.A.nTF.8c9zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/116 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:55:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 4cf00e17405a4b3bf6dc7ae807b8a212 >I have heard Fripp with King Crimson and Bowie but am unfamilair with other >works.David Torn have heard of but not heard... > >Who Do You Recommend the aspiring Looper >listen to? sure... ...so many suggestions came in the last two months. Could someone offer an hour to collect them so we can put them on the page for anyone to access easily? Matthias From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:21 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 14:54:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpKzJ-0001gO-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:54:57 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Recommended Listening Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:46:16 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 28 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"RbO4DB.A.LEB.cR-zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/117 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:54:57 -0700 X-UIDL: f22568dcb0a646a66f61d0b8b7a06c40 >---quote--- > Terry Riley => A rainbow over curved air; > David Sylvian => Gone to earth > Matthias Grob => Musica aguariana para viajar-se > David Sylvian => Seecrets from the beehive > Fripp/Eno => Evening Star > Robert Fripp => Easter Sunday > > Have fun!!! > > Miguel > ----end quote-- Good choices, "Evening Star" is a favorite of mine. Some recent good loopy stuff: Michael Brook "Albino Alligator" soundtrack Daniel Lanois "Sling Blade" soundtrack I've never been disappointed by anything from Brook, Fripp, Torn, Lanois. later John From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:22 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 15:02:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpL6i-0002Ku-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:02:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:54:13 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199707182154.AA05536@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Recommended Listening Resent-Message-ID: <"tKVwFD.A.JpB.5Z-zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/118 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:02:36 -0700 X-UIDL: a0b88e6cb3f4738875d612029b997357 To add a minor historical note, I noticed that there's a looped saxophone solo on the first Roxy Music album. (I think it's saxophone, although Andrew Mackay is also credited with playing the oboe, and I'm not familiar enough reed instrument tonalities in that dense a mix.) Presumably Eno had something to do with it; the album is copyright 1972; I don't know how that fits in with Eno&Fripp's stuff. Album: "Roxy Music" Track 5: "2 H.B." Solo starts at 1:34, the loop is about 4 seconds long, he plays for about 30 seconds, then it fades out over 20 seconds. (And then another loop (or the same one?) fades back in.) I've never noticed anything else that was clearly a loop on the album, although there might be. Sean Barrett From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:23 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 15:34:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpLbN-0004gN-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:34:17 -0700 Message-ID: <33D01C4A.1514@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:45:46 -0700 From: Rick Canton Organization: Kaynar , Ent. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Age...? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JRMwnB.A.5wD.o1-zz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/120 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:34:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 98a47b2753bc4a39e70c8912ecc663e3 The Man Himself wrote: > > > Warren Sirota Wrote > > > > > is anyone on this list under 25? > > 23 as of this past Thursday... > > --Andre 30 as of the 16th.... Rick From ???@??? Fri Jul 18 21:03:31 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 18 19:48:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpPYw-0004Cz-00; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:48:02 -0700 Message-ID: <33D02791.E9D@vtx.ch> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 04:33:53 +0200 From: Claude Voit Reply-To: c.voit@vtx.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: user-forum@waldorf-gmbh.de Subject: Am I Looping ? >I think so > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z8Vg7.A.MhD.hmC0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/122 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:48:02 -0700 X-UIDL: be51d82055d7525f66f8e6ce9397ed5d Hello loopers I was reading you for a while so thats my first attempt to describe the completely other way's I'm trying to master with my guitar . 1- The accoustic looping: With just one accoustic guitar playing fingerpicking drones, sequences, loops, played alway exactly the same until they produce the caption of the sequence by the listener. He has understood the motif. He is hypnotized 8-] Then you modify : add or delete a note make playing location shifts orxwawes, harmonize, bass line, accents on some three or four notes of the drone creates a melody etc... all real guitar no effects . Playing with the metronome gets you to the groove in allowing you to control dragging or rushing certain beats you produce . As you play your loop you think at the overall architecture (where am I where do I go ) and at the next add or incident (finger problems or glitches bring some beatiful creativity when you allow them to exist) I normally play very very soft with a lot of amp power (and a taste of compression) to play the most with the dynamic of the music; another interesting thing with this dynamic thing is by revelating all the finger, fretting noizes you are obliged to use them, control them as an entire part of interest and variations. Suddenly you hear the harmonic's of the hand locations you begin to use it ..... I'm mostly improvising those pieces ( from 34 sec to 10'37" ) and I sometimes get lost but the danger is creative 2- The techno looping: for that I create midi events sequences that trigger the fantastic Waldorf 4 pole filter mainly the vcf vca and pan section of an analog synth all parameter accesible and modulated via midi (notes,velocity,controllers afertouch p bend etc...)or input envellope follower, trigger. Those midi events sequences shape, filter, pan, chop the music I'm playing to it like a programable tremolo/autopan/wha/delay going groowy wild in sync with the music It can also produce very subtle pan and filter everchanging sweeps for more calm or dreamy music. On stage I plan to use a sequencer that would, by program change, switch from loop to loop as the music goes by (playing with a clic will be unavoidable for the drummer ) BTW does anybody use or know a midifile or hardware sequencer that could be completely slaved by remote control (midi footswitch) Finally I think the pianist had to go keyboard then sequenced then techno some of us guitar players specially loopers can go the same way too Where is the record bin for *The new gamelan ambiant experimental hardcore sequenced guitar hero* Ciao Claude Email:c.voit@vtx.ch I'll send a copy to the waldorf forum wich is a little too much on the beach those days .-) user-forum@waldorf-gmbh.de http://www.Waldorf-gmbh.de/ Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html From ???@??? Sat Jul 19 10:06:11 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 01:38:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpV1r-0001fd-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:38:15 -0700 X-Sender: LEO@MAIL.DINONET.IT X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: RE: Recommended Listening Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 10:41:56 +0200 Message-ID: <19970719084155000.AAA189@Default> Resent-Message-ID: <"NBjJ1.A.qaB.2xH0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/123 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:38:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 48b9d247365321c06de83703390c696d Hi all As a musical journalist I reviewed the other night a concert by Jungle Funk. The lineup is: Vinx - vocal and percussion Doug Wimbish - bass and vocal Will Calhoun - drums and acustic and electronic percussion These are 3 incredible musician capable to play an entire set (2h 1/2) without every other instrument. The secret of the success relied in their incredible musicianship and talent (Vinx incredible singer and ethno african percussionist, Will e Doug, ex Living Colours, was not only playing the rhythm section but a lot more, especially Doug, a bass that sounded like a guitar, like a sampler, a keyboard or drums with a ton of effects at his feet) but in looping too!!! (here's the point!!!) It was a Great example of how to use effectively the loopers (in their case 3 jamman, one for each musicians) to create a huge sound and multiple layers or parts to play with. What impressed me more was not the simple solo approach: record a rythm track then solo over. The greatness of their loop use was in building songs around the loop, all in real time. Vocal included!!! great show. If you like a brillant mix of soul and blues vocal, funk rhythm section, a little rock, some electronic stuff and a lot of intelligent looping check them out. Their live set is heavily based on loops. I can't assure on record (scheduled for next autumn for some Polygram sublabel). ciao leo PS. Oberheim upgrade stuff: Pat Murphy from Gibson said this: >>Leo The Echoplexes being sent out next month in Europe will have the upgrade. thanks Pat Murphy<< From ???@??? Sat Jul 19 10:06:15 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 04:59:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpYAc-0006Iz-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 04:59:30 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 07:56:25 -0400 (EDT) From: KelRey@aol.com Message-ID: <970719075624_1758718932@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: RE: Hard disk recording/looping Resent-Message-ID: <"SxBZ0C.A.5zF.luK0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 04:59:30 -0700 X-UIDL: a83c3eee9d366aaef61efcf088396a35 I have been setting up loops from Studio Vision Opcode sequencer to an EMU Darwin Hard Disk recorder using the Midi Machine Control window in Studio Vision. It works great. I have a gig hard drive in the Darwin so I have way more loop time then I ever use. Kelly From ???@??? Sat Jul 19 10:06:16 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 08:34:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpbWg-0004pD-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 08:34:30 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:32:03 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"NTqVy.A.CYE.z3N0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 08:34:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 0072e653ec498396d09a3da7307315db Sean Barrett made a strong contribution: >... And then I figured, hey, >MIDI looping should be a lot simpler than digital looping, >maybe I could do that. A search on the web, and here I >am--nobody anywhere seems to be talking about MIDI looping. >(I'm not doing it myself--but I want to be.) Go ahead. I am amazed, too, that the easyer version did not come out first, and why the sequencer that is about as old as the delay did not develop in this same specific direction it originally was used for... This is a nice document you created. I deserves a space on the LD page, I think! Others may add to it. I liked Robert Carter practical contributions, too! >Here are some of the obvious issues I've thought of for >MIDI looping: > con: no effects in the feedback path > but: most people don't use their loopers that way anyway Right: The available dedicated Looping devices dont let you insert in the feedback path either. The delays like PCM42 and t.c.2290 have it, because they do the feedback all analog, which is not very sutable for looping in other ways. > con: another MIDI delay in your signal path > but: you can use your performance synth (e.g. guitar synth or keyboard) > to provide the initial tone, and then the extra MIDI delay can > be compensated for by reducing the first iteration's delay time > but but: now you need another sounds source with very similar sounds > to your initial sounds hm... there is no way you can merge the the two contol signals? > pro: requires much less RAM; infinite UNDO is plausible ... and organization is several tracks is simple. > con: probably harder to create the software for No, I do not think so. > pro: probably requires much less CPU crunching power > pro: you can "record" your performance into a sequencer, > storing the notes you played & MIDI patch changes or > such that changed the looper's performance--then just > play the sequence out into the MIDI looper to repeat it. > Now you can edit your performance. > con: drops out notes if the layers get too thick > but: get more sound sources to avoid this (and possibly multiple > MIDI outs on the looper to get more channels with distinct > pitch bends). Also, audio looper must distort or clamp > or compress if the total audio volume gets too thick (different > but similar sort of problem) Most important con: There is no easy way to simulate feedback and let the notes fade and leave them behind at a certain point. But it should be possible. But a lot of kinds of loop music do not need the feedback feature. and pro: You can create programs that for example repeat each input exactly 4 times (at same volume) or more complex patterns like repeat twice / wait 6 / play twice, softer... >Well, I could go on and on (well, I guess I already have), but >I'm interested to hear some comments before I go too far over >the top with it. Go on and on and do it! Then keep in mind, that the real success you will have if you can connect the result to a HD sound edit program. Consider also to make it compatible with the existing looping devices to simplify operation and synchronization. I imagine that you will want to loop the guitar sound in a Plex for example and simultaneously the synth sound in MIDI and control all with a pedal board. In addition you might have a key for each channel, beeing that the Plex would be one of the channels. I can give you some information about the functions and we might come up with some new features to make the two ideas compatible. I could even imagine a unit that looks about like the Plex, but cost a lot less for doing the same only in MIDI. Thank you for this work! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jul 19 16:55:11 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 11:56:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpeg3-0004RI-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:56:23 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:54:04 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199707191854.AA16455@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"A0N5KD.A.WBE.P1Q0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:56:23 -0700 X-UIDL: ecf9d9940437ea824bdc3e39e209bffa Sorry if this is getting too geeky for any of you... >Most important con: > There is no easy way to simulate feedback and let the notes fade >and leave them behind at a certain point. But it should be possible. >But a lot of kinds of loop music do not need the feedback feature. Well, the way I did this before, which I assume is reasonable, is to treat note-on velocity as "volume", and decay that as your feedback. You have to be using patches that do translate volume this way, plus you get the ability to have notes do other things (like have filters clamp down) as the notes fade out. You can drop a note out when it's gotten to a certain velocity, or you can drop them after a certain number of generations. >> con: no effects in the feedback path >> but: most people don't use their loopers that way anyway > >Right: The available dedicated Looping devices dont let you insert in the >feedback path either. The delays like PCM42 and t.c.2290 have it, because >they do the feedback all analog, which is not very sutable for looping in >other ways. Well, I've started specing a design for a performance-oriented MIDI looper, and one thing I've discovered is that there is an _enormous_ number of special effects you can do by processing the notes during feedback. Now, it is _totally questionable_ how useful these effects are; much like getting a guitar multi-FX box and playing the pre-programmed patches, and finding them useless, if you got a MIDI looper and just wanted it to loop, then you're not necessarilly going to want these sorts of things--rather, they would motivate certain compositions, and thus might only be useful for one planned-out piece: - every loop, transpose up a fourth (or any interval)--of course, any non-looped music needs to follow along, or it becomes dissonant - apply a "smart harmony" (which stays in a single key) to transpose up some interval, so now the non-looped music doesn't need to slave to it - use slightly different delay length for every pitch, so a chord spreads out over time each delay - rather than having a volume reduction in feedback, make the delay time get longer and longer _per note_, so maybe each note echoes after 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s... Thus, the texture will get sparser, but not by fading out, but by notes playing less often I've also written down some more bizarre effects like having different notes in a chord pitch shift in different directions, and having notes detune (pitch shift by fractional amounts) as they echo, that are of very questionable utility. >> con: another MIDI delay in your signal path >> but: you can use your performance synth (e.g. guitar synth or keyboard) >> to provide the initial tone, and then the extra MIDI delay can >> be compensated for by reducing the first iteration's delay time >> but but: now you need another sounds source with very similar sounds >> to your initial sounds > >hm... there is no way you can merge the the two contol signals? Well, in fact, if you're playing on a keyboard with a MIDI in and a MIDI out, and it's well behaved, then you can in fact route the output of the MIDI loop back to that keyboard. I don't know how many are well-behaved. And I don't know how many guitar synths have a MIDI-in. If you imagine you're playing through a guitar->MIDI converter, like the GI-10, then you'd need a pretty messy setup to try to avoid the extra MIDI delay from the looper: naive: guitar->MIDI --> looper --> synth direct: _--------------_ guitar->MIDI --<_ _>-->synth --- looper --- | The problem is that the merge operation (|) requires an extra little MIDI box, which probably incurs extra MIDI delay as well, so this setup probably wouldn't speed up the direct notes, except if the looper doesn't get direct notes back to the output very fast. >> con: probably harder to create the software for >No, I do not think so. The main thing that I'm worried about is that MIDI is channel-oriented. So if you play a note and bend it, you get pitch bend data on that channel. To output it, you need to play that note on its own channel, so that the pitch bend doesn't bend other notes accidentally. If you play _every_ note on its own channel, then you only get 16 notes at once, and for a big thick looped texture, that's not enough. So I'm imagining that you'll want really smart software that allocates notes to their own channels if they need it (because they get pitch bent or have some other MIDI continuous controller applied to them), and otherwise puts them on one channel to conserve channels. Which seems like a mess. (There are two better solutions: have several MIDI outs, so you have more than 16 channels effectively (but now you need several synths, so we're no longer low-budget); or, use ZIPI instead of MIDI--but now we're in fantasy land.) Also, audio data is really simple. You get the sample, you multiply to change its volume, you add to mix. You're just keeping one big queue of data in your delay, etc. MIDI data is made up of variable-sized packets, there's running status, etc. etc. Still, never having written either, I'm happy to defer to your judgement on the complexity issue. And not like it matters to me--whether it's harder or not, it's not "too hard". >and pro: You can create programs that for example repeat each input exactly >4 times (at same volume) or more complex patterns like repeat twice / wait >6 / play twice, softer... Unfortunately, finding a user interface for such things is going to be an enormous mess. But it's definitely well suited to all sorts of bizarre stuff that's just not feasible in audio, because it never actually mixes the notes together the way an audio looper does, so it can do all sorts of per-note stuff. >Consider also to make it compatible with the existing looping devices to >simplify operation and synchronization. Totally. Clearly it's hard for an audio looper to sync, since if it doesn't want to pop if it gets out of sync, it needs to actually change its sample rate, or maybe cross-fade the beginning and end of the loop. A MIDI looper can just play all the remaining notes and jump to the start of the loop. So making it slave seems smart. >I could even imagine a unit that looks about like the Plex, but cost a lot >less for doing the same only in MIDI. I figure you could do a fine MIDI looper with a little box with a 68020, 128K of ram, MIDI in and MIDI out, and some amount of non-volatile memory for patches. (Actually, for all I know, a true 68000 would be fine.) However, I'm not aware of anything like this available as a kit or pre-made. On the other hand, I can get an old Atari ST for $50, which gives me 512K of ram and a floppy drive. So my current plan (but no promises) is to try to make an ST MIDI looper, at least as a prototype. The advantage of the ST over a PC or MAC is that I can use it in performance more easily (since it's a single piece), and it's cheap enough I can get another as a backup. (Ok, really, the ideal box has at least 2 MIDI ins and 4 MIDI outs, so the ST is less than ideal in that dimension, whereas plenty of MAC or PC interfaces would do better.) Sean Barrett From ???@??? Sat Jul 19 16:55:13 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 12:18:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpf1n-0005SX-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:18:51 -0700 Message-ID: <33D112B6.3A735FEA@wsdesigns.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:17:10 -0700 From: Warren Sirota Reply-To: wsirota@wsdesigns.com Organization: WS Designs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: MIDI Looping X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lar7F.A.H_E.oKR0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:18:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 0c23741574a75c8040b57f219c510f5b Hi All, In case anyone's interested, I wrote an application for and article on MIDI Looping using MAX in Electronic Musician. Look for "MAX Programming Workshop," August 1991. I created a multi-track looping program I called "The Dresherizer" because it was inspired by Paul Dresher (that begs the question, actually, of why I haven't seen any mention of Dresher in this group. Have I just missed it? Is anyone else familiar with his stuff?) Anyway, back to the article/program. Since I haven't been Mac-based for a long time now, the source files are probably gone forever (although reconstructable from the article, and they are probably on one of these old 44MB SyQuest disks that I can't read with any of my current hardware..). If anyone's interested, I can probably find a hardcopy of the article that I can copy. Warren Sirota http://wsdesigns.com/wsirota From ???@??? Sat Jul 19 16:55:13 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 14:36:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wphAy-0002Ss-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:36:28 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Paul Dresher In-Reply-To: <33D112B6.3A735FEA@wsdesigns.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"34NmHD.A.uKC.QLT0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:36:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 156c2a1c92c2c5e7cab18f45a8d6b825 On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Warren Sirota wrote: > (that begs the > question, actually, of why I haven't seen any mention of Dresher in this > group. Have I just missed it? Is anyone else familiar with his stuff?) He's cropped up here and there on this list (in reference, not in person). For my own part, he was the first performer I ever saw who was using real-time looping in a live performance context. I saw several of the performance art pieces he did with vocalist Rinde Eckert about ten years ago; I'd surely like to have a copy of "Slow Fire" today (I fear my original cassette copy has vanished in the mists of time). Last I heard, he was living in Minneapolis, and was doing some collaborations with the California EAR unit; anyone else know what he's been up to in the last several years? --Andre From ???@??? Sat Jul 19 16:55:15 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 15:33:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpi3i-0004Lq-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:33:02 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 18:28:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Trueman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Paul Dresher In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2hXRwC.A.-7D.SAU0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:33:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 1fd7a42295889735f1c2a82dba7eac76 Paul Dresher is still living in the bay area. His most recent project is his own band-the Paul Dresher Ensemble-that has violin, bassoon, midi-vibes, drums (midi), keyboard, and himself on various guitars. The composer Steve Mackey (who has a great CD of his own, featuring all sorts of looping, called "Lost and Found," on Bridge Records) is currently working on an opera for the ensemble and Rinde Eckert, and I am lucky enough to be writing a piece for them as well; both will be performed as part of their tour next spring. They will also be touring parts of CA this November. I think they have plans for a CD in the near future. They are one of the most interesting ensembles that I've run into, though I'm not sure how much looping they are currently doing... Dan ---------------- "we need new instruments very badly..." Edgar Varese ---------------- On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, The Man Himself wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Warren Sirota wrote: > > > (that begs the > > question, actually, of why I haven't seen any mention of Dresher in this > > group. Have I just missed it? Is anyone else familiar with his stuff?) > > He's cropped up here and there on this list (in reference, not in person). > For my own part, he was the first performer I ever saw who was using > real-time looping in a live performance context. I saw several of the > performance art pieces he did with vocalist Rinde Eckert about ten years > ago; I'd surely like to have a copy of "Slow Fire" today (I fear my > original cassette copy has vanished in the mists of time). Last I heard, > he was living in Minneapolis, and was doing some collaborations with the > California EAR unit; anyone else know what he's been up to in the last > several years? > > --Andre > From ???@??? Sun Jul 20 02:21:28 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 19 21:33:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpngt-0000pL-00; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:33:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199707200431.VAA27003@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> From: "Paolo Valladolid" To: Subject: Re: Midi looping Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:15:43 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IgXlyC.A.Wp.dSZ0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:33:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 0134aaeeb5d6536642c84baad2abbcda > I've read of techno bands who use computer sequencers on stage and vary > their perfomances with these tools. It does take a lot of preparation and > having Plan B available. Sounds like too much computing, planning and not > enough playing for my taste. Which brings us full circle back to our > friendly real-time loop devices :-) > I had a friend who did the techo thing. He used the onboard sequencer of his sampling keyboard. He told me that many of his peers actually prerecord sequenced parts into a DAT then play the DAT for their live shows. The group Cibo Matto has a song featuring flute leads. I was amused to see the keyboard player hold up one of those Walkmans with a speaker to the microphone for the "flute solos". Later in the show, she fired up her old analog keyboard to play a "real" solo... but until they were joined onstage by their guest drummer and bassist they too appeared to be using a DAT player for the backup parts. Supposedly, The Orb uses prerecorded DATs also but often feed the DATs through effects andplay with mixer controls to add an improvisational feel. Paolo From ???@??? Sun Jul 20 10:52:43 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 20 05:33:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpvBV-0003DE-00; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:33:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:29:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: MAX/ MIDI Looping In-Reply-To: <33D112B6.3A735FEA@wsdesigns.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PEdm-C.A.n6C.qUg0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:33:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 8105250d0874fa9a495d6cf5a2bd8165 On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Warren Sirota wrote: > Hi All, > In case anyone's interested, I wrote an application for and article on > MIDI Looping using MAX in Electronic Musician. Look for "MAX Programming > Workshop," August 1991. I created a multi-track looping program I called > "The Dresherizer" because it was inspired by Paul Dresher (that begs the > question, actually, of why I haven't seen any mention of Dresher in this > group. Have I just missed it? Is anyone else familiar with his stuff?) > If anyone's interested, I can probably find a hardcopy of > the article that I can copy. > > Warren Sirota > http://wsdesigns.com/wsirota Hello, I would definitely be interested in your article - Is your MIDI Looper program on the IRCAM MAX Archive site? Thanks, Doug Michael From ???@??? Sun Jul 20 10:52:44 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 20 10:23:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wpzhu-0001uW-00; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:23:42 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:23:02 -0800 To: wsirota@wsdesigns.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: MIDI Looping/Dresher Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"YmXUC.A.8pB.kjk0z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:23:42 -0700 X-UIDL: a2e8fd1a410ce0fc5cdb5d70337a9011 At 12:17 PM 7/19/97, Warren Sirota wrote: >Hi All, > >In case anyone's interested, I wrote an application for and article on >MIDI Looping using MAX in Electronic Musician. Look for "MAX Programming >Workshop," August 1991. I created a multi-track looping program I called >"The Dresherizer" because it was inspired by Paul Dresher (that begs the >question, actually, of why I haven't seen any mention of Dresher in this >group. Have I just missed it? Is anyone else familiar with his stuff?) > I was championing his Opposites Attract CD, a collaboration with Ned Rothenberg on this list a while back, it's one of my absolute fave looping discs. I remember seeing your article back then, at the time I wasn't very fluent in MAX, I should snoop around now for that article, I could probably get more out of it now. On a somewhat related note, I played briefly with a pre-midi ARP analog control voltage sequencer recently. It had sixteen sliders that sent CV's, which could either be interpreted as pitch or some other controller (filter cutoff, whatever), and a clock that would step through the slider values. You could route the CV's to any of three outs. It was a great, intuitively easy, real time, though it doesn't exactly capture performance dynamics, it was very easy to generate loops that could be varied over time. I'm considering implementing a MIDI version in MAX when I get time. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 10:07:19 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 09:29:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqLKg-0006XQ-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:29:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199707211626.JAA13246@apple.com> Subject: Warren Cuccurullo CD Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 11:27:06 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"bflvgC.A.w0F.s140z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/12 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:29:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 19c83a9a92c650aa2f7147e03d1f55e2 Picked up "Machine Language" by Warren Cuccurullo (ex-Zappa, Missing Person's, Duran Duran) this weekend. Cover sticker boasts "Solo Ambient Guitar", and indeed it is. Most of it was recorded in '87 (!), the rest in 92, all live to two-track. Liner notes are scant as to equipment details, but CD is quite enjoyable, with various levels of activity in the ambience. It's on Imago, which went under recently (I believe), so it may be a little tricky to locate, but it's well worth it. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 10:07:20 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 10:08:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqLwb-0001b2-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:08:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199707211700.KAA10484@apple.com> Subject: Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 12:02:40 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"0zZRRC.A.r7.BX50z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:08:21 -0700 X-UIDL: e011dfaeddce01a18016c56a668d5657 >could you forward label, cd#, and maybe where you got it? Machine Language, Warren Cuccurullo Imago IMA-24001 I purchased it from a local store, ABCD's of Austin, Texas. TH From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 10:07:17 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 08:08:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqK4a-00024k-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:08:28 -0700 Message-Id: <9707211509.AA12786@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:14:00 -0400 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Re[4]: Midi looping To: Loopers-Delight , Hogan; Greg , MAT X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"N-lVkB.A.zxB.Pr30z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:08:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 5da05b2b109a21eec9487d1ade17c7fc Dear Miguel, Have you recorded silence in a loop when your JAMMAN is slaved to MIDI clock. The splice point in the loop should actually be more silent than the rest of the loop. If you get noise at the splice point there is a problem with your JAMMAN. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com Hi Greg, I am almost sure my JamMan is not broken (I will perform the test you suggest to be sure) but the noise exists as confirmed by Bob Sellon on the following mail: Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight Miguel, There are two possible causes for the noise I can think of; one you can fix the other you can't. When Jamman is slaved to an external MIDI clock it determines the end of the loop by itself based on the tempo of the clock and the number of beats selected on the front panel. If the operator tries to end the loop manually, the resulting loop will very likely be shorter than it should be. When the loop is too short, Jamman restarts the loop twice: once when the end of the loop (time) is detected and once when the correct number of MIDI clocks has come in. The solution is to let Jamman close the loop by itself (DON'T tap a second time). This will get the loops size to it's best fit. The second cause is based on the jitter on the incoming MIDI clocks and the resolution of Jamman itself. At best, Jamman can lock in a loop size to within half a millisecond (512us). The problem is that most MIDI clock sources have jitter (timing variations) in the same neighborhood. After the loop time is locked in, the priority in Jamman is to stay in perfect sync with the incoming MIDI clock. The problem is that the combined half millisecond resolution of Jamman and the jitter on the incoming clock result in the actual size of the loop changing very slightly every time through. As the loop size changes, Jamman either shortens the loop or replays the very beginning of the loop to compensate resulting in potential clicks and pops. With the PC itself being slaved the jitter gets worse and so do the clicks and pops. As I said, there is currently no work-around for this other than, as you said, not playing anything at the loop edge. The only other thing I can suggest (which is equally klugey), is to place something percussive at the splice point which will tend to mask the noise. I am looking at the problem, however, and will let you know if I come up with anything. If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd love to hear it. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec bsellon@lexicon.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert S. Carter also listens to the glitch, see his mail: Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home after reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the hell out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it can be annoying. --------------------------------------------------------------------- - Anyway, I thik we have to live with it until some kind of upgrade happens. Regards, Miguel Miguel asked "How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI clock? I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but did not succeed." Miguel, There must be something wrong with your JAMMAN. Even if a loop is not spliced together perfectly there should be no added noise at the splice point. Certainly if the end and begining of a loop are not either silent or matched perfectly you will here a glitch but this is not an added noise it is only what you here when you jump between two different sounds or tones. Either you are not matching the end and beginning loops or you have a broken JAMMAN. If you record a loop of silence you should find is that at the end/beginning of the loop(what I would call the splice point) is actually more silent then the rest of the loop. If this is not the case and there is noise at the splice point therte is a problem with the machine. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 11:02:02 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 10:15:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqM39-00026b-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:15:07 -0700 Message-ID: <33D386FD.430B@voicenet.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:57:50 -0400 From: Charles Cohen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI looping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5nqWMC.A.twB.vh50z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:15:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 4aaa377facc04b80313cbdbaf6679adb Hardware MIDI looping is extensively implemented within the Buchla Thunder ( a touch controller). -- **** What's Charles up to? **** http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 10:07:19 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 09:59:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqLnj-0000t4-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:59:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:53:25 -0400 (EDT) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970721125110_784923658@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD Resent-Message-ID: <"QAG8qB.A.Ad.ER50z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/13 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:59:11 -0700 X-UIDL: c6579868a4748cf9cf6dffaf5fe7485d could you forward label, cd#, and maybe where you got it? From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 10:07:15 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 07:15:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqJFO-000764-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:15:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199707211429.KAA01455@sauron.bivwood.com> From: "Siobhan Canty" To: Subject: Re: jamman Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:11:36 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC95BE.79092AA0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Cm_xjD.A._dG.V520z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:15:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 61bd80dd113f296ac3c9277040f67902

Hi...I first visited the Loopers Delight webpage last week and
appreciated your input.  Last year, I bought a JamMan - got a great deal on a demo
model.  Unfortunately, it came with nothing...no manual, no chip, no pedal, no
nuthin'...I was wondering if you could send me information on what is available.  I am
particularly interested in getting the manual as I think there are many functions that I
am not taking advantage of...

Unlike everyone else on that site, I don't play guitar ...
actually I do but only so I don't have to sing by myself. I am a classically trained
vocalist and a composer of classical and non-classical music.  I have been writing
vocal compositions for the JamMan for about a year now and just did my first concert with the Jam Man at the Black Cat Night Club in Washington, DC a couple of weeks ago.   The pieces are purely vocal, with building harmonies and rhythm sections (Although the sound is not like Bobby McFerrin's, the methods are - only the pieces are built in a live setting, not the studio)  People just went nuts over "the magic box".  My next project is a
multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan.  I think the form of the cantata will
lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch, style, and
tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the changes, and
then build it up in a different way.  Just starting on that this week...

Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have but I thought I would
let you know that there are people using the JamMan in many different ways.
Sorry to hear the product was discontinued - I think its fab!  

Thanks for your help on this.  Info can be sent to:
Siobhan Canty
3235 Walbridge Place, NW
Washington, DC  20010
e-mail "siocanty@cfpa.org"

Thanks again!





----------
> From: Hogan, Greg <GHogan@lexicon.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: Midi looping
> Date: Thursday, July 17, 1997 1:03 PM
>
>
>
>
>  ----------
> From:  Hogan, Greg
> Sent:  Thursday, July 17, 1997 9:09 AM
> To:  Loopers-Delight
> Subject:  RE: Re[2]: Midi looping
>
> Miguel asked "How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small   
> glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is   
> receiving MIDI clock?
>
> I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but
> did not succeed."
>
> Miguel,
>
> There must be something wrong with your JAMMAN.  Even if a loop is not   
> spliced together perfectly there should be no added noise at the splice   
> point.  Certainly if the end and begining of a loop are not either silent   
> or matched perfectly you will here a glitch but this is not an added   
> noise it is only what you here when you jump between two different sounds   
> or tones.
> Either you are not matching the end and beginning loops or you have a   
> broken JAMMAN.
>
> If you record a loop of silence you should find is that at the   
> end/beginning of the loop(what I would call the splice point) is actually   
> more silent then the rest of the loop.  If this is not the case and there   
> is noise at the splice point therte is a problem with the machine.
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that   
> I can do for you.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Greg Hogan
> Lexicon Customer Service
> Phone 617-280-0372
> FAX 617-280-0499
> email: ghogan@lexicon.com
>
>
>

From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 22:43:37 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 12:42:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqOLX-0003UR-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:42:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:50:08 -0500 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: jamman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <33D3AF60.2945@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199707211429.KAA01455@sauron.bivwood.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"yyzTBB.A.y-C.Lr70z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:42:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 724605d48ef85276617a7a6245a88198 Siobhan Canty wrote, in part: > The pieces are purely vocal, > with building harmonies and rhythm sections (Although the sound is not > like Bobby McFerrin's, the methods are - only the pieces are built in > a live setting, not the studio) People just went nuts over "the magic > box". My next project is a > multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan. I think the form of > the cantata will > lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch, > style, and > tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the > changes, and > then build it up in a different way. Just starting on that this > week... > > Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have Oh, no, no, no-- not the infojunkies on this list! Tell us more! And welcome! :-) -- John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Mon Jul 21 22:43:40 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 21 22:43:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqXjB-0006RL-00; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:43:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:38:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707220538.AAA16161@mail1.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) Resent-Message-ID: <"igYZgB.A.XpF.PdE1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:43:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 65003a84d14135bce96151407cd38bf4 hi folks, looping live with the Chapman Stick(R) on Sat july 26 at the Wong Spot, 1203 East Commerce St., San Antonio ,TX ..but the main feature is an art exhibit featuring 13 artists from Latin America, Mexico, US,,,maybe some other countries too. i'll be providing the musical backdrop from 6-8pm. one can reach the Wong Spot at 210-506-1710 for further details...these are very fine artists, displaying very fine works,,, have'nt done very many SOLO looping/soundexpressions performances,,,so i hope to have a lot of fun,,,anyone this far south,,,please e-mail me or drop by if you like the painted picture...........of sound....of sound....of sound james rhodes From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 11:15:03 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 09:27:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqhm7-0007fg-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:26:59 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:13:17 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: jamman Resent-Message-ID: <"WvtzcB.A.yHG.kwN1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/18 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:26:59 -0700 X-UIDL: e3d80ad6201c1d020c1126315b6420cb >Unlike everyone else on that site, I don't play guitar ... ...finally... >My next project is a >multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan. I think the form of the >cantata will >lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch, >style, and >tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the >changes, and >then build it up in a different way. Just starting on that this week... Unless manyone else on that site, you dont play ambient :-) How do you "bring it back down" ? >Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have I apreciated every word. Just go on... Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 11:15:01 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 09:22:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqhh4-0007En-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:21:46 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:13:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"yRLcQ.A.QIG.nwN1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/19 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:21:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 84d2960ba551fff5ce74bce521495c54 >Hardware MIDI looping is extensively implemented within the Buchla >Thunder ( a touch controller). I just had a look at Buchlas Page (which kindly enough is www.buchla.com). It only talks about the lightning which has beed discussed on the list before. Now, am I the only one who has no idea about Thunder (exept that it looks like a futuristic multi pad) and would like to know more? Thank you anyway, Charles Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 15:03:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqn1V-0007Gu-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:03:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199707222157.OAA14824@apple.com> Subject: Gear plug: Tascam 564 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 97 16:59:39 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"A4G_JD.A.haG.kzS1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/24 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:03:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 9eea993220f59170cd49c6d6398f490a Not directly related to looping, but probably of interest to many people on this list: Purchased a Tascam 564 Minidisc recorder last week (like a cassette Portastudio, but recording on Minidisc, with some digital editing capabilities). I'm quite pleased with it so far, but its wonders are too many to go into here. Tascam has a faxback service which will send you a fairly complete overview (five or six pages) of what the 564 can do. The sound quality is quite good, and I believe EQ summarized as "better than cassette, not as good as ADAT". Primo neat features include: ¥ the ability to "bounce forward" to a later section of the MD, which allows you to do sub-mixes while retaining all the original tracks. The sub-mixes do not occur in the digital realm, but are routed through the analog mixer, so you can eq, add effects, etc. You can do this up to four times (only five "song" files per disc, 37 minutes of audio). ¥ digital out for stereo final mix ¥ auto punch in and out ¥ ability to place up to 20 named index points in each song file ("Intro", "Bridge", etc) ¥ MIDI sync to keep all your sequenced tracks off the disc until the final mix ¥ ability to sequence audio sections within a song, so if you want to try the verse before the chorus, you can hear it without having to re-record. ¥ and more stuff I haven't got into yet. If anyone has any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer to the best of my abilities. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 11:15:03 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 10:25:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqigY-0003PQ-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:25:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:17:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: MIDI looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eyp-2C.A.W1C.GtO1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/20 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:25:18 -0700 X-UIDL: e10691987f2671fd602498c4b87f696c > Now, am I the only one who has no idea about Thunder (exept that it looks > like a futuristic multi pad) and would like to know more? ..................Jmohmed@mail.smu.edu try jamal. he's had a thunder for the last several years. he's a percussionist but uses it to supplement his drumkat set-up with thunder "atmospherics". he's also talked to buchla many times about its uses. spurred kim From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:24 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 18:32:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqou9-0007lL-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:03:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199707222341.QAA28888@apple.com> Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 97 18:43:11 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"1j-C2D.A._DG.6UU1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:03:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e179815ef96a8c1486cc33fe14329e9 > >>Purchased a Tascam 564 Minidisc recorder last week (like a cassette > >how much are these things anyway? Is it worth it over just buying a big disk >drive and going the hard disk route? I got mine for $1199 through Musician's Friend. The MD's (you have to use the 140MB data disks, not the regular two track MD's, although it can play those back) are about $18 apiece. As far as the HD recording route, it depends. My home computer is a old Mac IIfx with 20MB of RAM. To me, it would have been too much money/hassle to buy a few gigs of HD, a Jaz drive to back it up with, a sound card, HD recording software, etc. Plus, then it's a glass interface, instead of knobs, and so on. If you already have a fast, modern computer, it may be worth it to you. I preferred to have my recording setup seperate from my computer, which also allows me to move my recording setup to our rehearsal space, if I want to record there. The computer is nailed down--it's not going anywhere. And for $1199, plus the cost of disks, I was set to go. I briefly considered one of the 8-track all-in-one HD systems that have popped up, but for that money, I think I'd want to go to a tape-based digital system with a seperate mixer. To me, the mixer on all-in-one units is always the letdown, and you're stuck with it. I'm willing to live with that for a 4-track portastudio at just over a grand, but for $2-3k, I want serious options, and for me, the integrated HD systems don't deliver the features/flexibility at that price point. For instance, Fostex has the DMT-8VL, which is going for about $1399, but the onboard HD can only hold 12 minutes of audio. To back it up, you have to buy the SCSI card, for $350 or so, and a Jaz drive for $400-500, and then Jaz carts are $70 apiece, etc. Of course you do get 8-tracks, but there's there's only two-band eq in the mixer, etc. If I've got an 8-track machine, I want to be able to make records with it, and the HD based systems don't look like they're quite there for me. Maybe the next generation, though I'm still opposed to the included mixer at that level. I didn't get the 564 to make CD's with, but to make really good home demo's, and to archive/edit my looping output. For that, it seems really great so far. If you're trying to figure out how to layer 16 tracks of Queen-style vocals and record a full drum kit, look elsewhere. I look at it as the best 4-track Portastudio yet built, a Portastudio on steriods (and I've heard some very nice things off tape-based 4-tracks, which is what I'd been planning to buy until these came out). > > >>¥ the ability to "bounce forward" to a later section of the MD, which >allows you to do sub-mixes while retaining all the original tracks. The >sub-mixes do not occur in the digital realm, but are routed through the >analog mixer, so you can eq, add effects, etc. You can do this up to four >times (only five "song" files per disc, 37 minutes of audio). >> > > >could you do it digitally? Seems like going through the compression >algorithm multiple times would do a number on the audio. Have you tried that >yet? I suppose you could, if it was a digital mixer, but it's not. I think that would push the price up too far. Then you run into the "for that price, I want more than four tracks" problem. I've done one bounce forward so far, but I've got grave doubts as to the usability of four generations of "bounce four tracks into one" with modern ears. It's one thing for the Beatles or Brian Wilson to have crammed everything together into the glorious Wall-o-Mono, but thirty years down the road the "recorded in Pepperland" sound seems to have fallen somewhat out of favor. This weekend I'll do four generations of bounce just as a test, and report back. Travis From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 11:15:07 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 10:38:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wqitW-0004Pj-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:38:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199707221751.NAA04036@sauron.bivwood.com> From: "Siobhan Canty" To: Subject: Re: jamman Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:33:47 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC96A3.E239B680" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vJhV9B.A.3zD.18O1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/21 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:38:42 -0700 X-UIDL: a058c0a7ae3a6bc1553eb48ccc01c327

> How do you "bring it back down" ?
>

Really good question.  I only have one of these toys, which is limiting so I have more ideas at this point than practical applications....Right now, I make the last vocal line I lay down indicate impending harmonic or rhythmic change with a twist or turn that is noticeably different than the previous loops.  Then I bring down the volumn while singing a live line that builds on that last twist... in effect then, the last loop acts as the transition loop and the listener is moved through the transition smoothly...I guess what I try to do is create a distraction so that they don't pay too much attention to the fact that the machine is being taken out...make them move forward with you...before they know it, you have changed pitch or rhythm, and have started a whole new looping sequence.

Ideally, however, I would love to have a number (at least two) of Jammen so that I could create overlapping harmonies that fit together yet act as different sections when playing alone.  For example, I could lay down four vocal parts on one JamMan...and then lay down the next two, three or four in the same basic tempo but on a different JamMan and with different harmonic and rythmic qualities.  I could let them groove for a bit (until that dangerous monotony starts threatening) and then pull out the first JamMan, leaving the second one to continue...You could hand the sections back and forth between Jammen that way...Just ideas...I can't wait until I actually have two to see what really happens....



----------
> From: Matthias Grob <matthias@bahianet.com.br>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Re: jamman
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 9:13 AM
>
>
> >Unlike everyone else on that site, I don't play guitar ...
>
> ...finally...
>
> >My next project is a
> >multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan.  I think the form of the
> >cantata will
> >lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch,
> >style, and
> >tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the
> >changes, and
> >then build it up in a different way.  Just starting on that this week...
>
> Unless manyone else on that site, you dont play ambient :-)
> How do you "bring it back down" ?
>
> >Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have
>
> I apreciated every word. Just go on...
> Matthias
>
>

From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:09 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 14:24:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqmQA-0004Sl-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:24:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:18:39 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com Message-ID: <970722171717_1480736076@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) Resent-Message-ID: <"g88c5D.A.kyD.0PS1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/22 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:24:38 -0700 X-UIDL: c403bf20b7b05261a4379a1e762a829b In a message dated 7/22/97 12:00:19 PM, you wrote: <> This sounds great. Wish I could see it. What we need is live webcasts of all the shows people have been mentioning! Jim From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:11 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 14:48:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqmnM-0006DZ-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:48:36 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199707222144.OAA11884@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:44:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Jul 22, 97 01:13:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N4EfJD.A.IjF.YnS1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/23 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:48:36 -0700 X-UIDL: ca788464069b80b480014e9e01a99061 > Now, am I the only one who has no idea about Thunder (exept that it looks > like a futuristic multi pad) and would like to know more? > > Thank you anyway, Charles > Matthias Emil "Dr T" Tobenfield told us the Thunder is a MIDI controller with pads arranged to fit the way the fingers span out from your hand; it's apparently designed to be played with just one hand. One notable feature I recall was that all the pads are sensitive to position as well as pressure. Tobenfield basically used it to control the manner in which MIDI sequences were played back. He also used MIDI faders and pedals. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:18 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 15:46:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqnhR-0002hw-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:46:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970722154122.0097aa40@pure.pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pure.pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:41:22 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970722224253.00980ce4@pop.chromatic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vUpgFD.A.jKC.tcT1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/26 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:46:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 89f94e31c7256120761dc2bfd87e4073 At 03:42 PM 7/22/97 -0700, you wrote: > >could you do it digitally? Seems like going through the compression >algorithm multiple times would do a number on the audio. Have you tried that >yet? > That was Electronic Musician's biggest gripe with the whole MD format in last month's review of the 3 machines in the market. When you bounce tracks, you run through the ATRAC compression each time. From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 15:37:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqnZ6-00020L-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:37:56 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970722224253.00980ce4@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:42:53 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 Resent-Message-ID: <"M6RenC.A.SqB.GWT1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/25 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:37:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 31eddfa2f4b5f3bc16d501c7e8ec7204 At 04:59 PM 7/22/97 -0000, you wrote: >Purchased a Tascam 564 Minidisc recorder last week (like a cassette how much are these things anyway? Is it worth it over just buying a big disk drive and going the hard disk route? >¥ the ability to "bounce forward" to a later section of the MD, which allows you to do sub-mixes while retaining all the original tracks. The sub-mixes do not occur in the digital realm, but are routed through the analog mixer, so you can eq, add effects, etc. You can do this up to four times (only five "song" files per disc, 37 minutes of audio). > could you do it digitally? Seems like going through the compression algorithm multiple times would do a number on the audio. Have you tried that yet? kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:20 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 16:15:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqo9q-0004ts-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:15:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:02:16 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199707222302.AA24774@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 Resent-Message-ID: <"-4CVyD.A.PrD.AwT1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:15:54 -0700 X-UIDL: e9492b7916834ae6ab38ef2f4766fca1 >>could you do it digitally? Seems like going through the compression >>algorithm multiple times would do a number on the audio. Have you tried that > >That was Electronic Musician's biggest gripe with the whole MD format in >last month's review of the 3 machines in the market. When you bounce >tracks, you run through the ATRAC compression each time. Is this worse than with tape? I.e., one generation of lossy compression is better (sounding) than one generation of tape. I would hope that three generations of lossy compression would be better than three of tape, although I can see how it might not be. I'd hope that would be part of the definition of a "good lossy compressor". Presumably by definition, there's no way to avoid the decompress/compress, even if it were a digital mix; mixing of straight digital signals is simple (simple addition), but mixing of compressed signals probably isn't. (One _can_ define compression methods where this isn't true, but it hardly seems worth it.) To put it a different way, if you have two tracks of compressed digital audio, and you mix them into one track, you end up using half as much storage. So you _have_ to lose some more data. Sean Barrett From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:20 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 16:43:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqoaj-0006ZH-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:43:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:19:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Nameless to the Goddess To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: multi-loop playback In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"M6FzXB.A.d5E.cBU1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/28 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:43:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 612b35722bf1604ab283cbb0c1c15495 My first question is, is there a looper that can output more than one loop at a time? It seems sort of limiting to have only one loop, when two different length loops would sound so much more interesting. It seems sort of expensive to buy two devices. Jus wondering. afn39111@afn.org <*> Why am I such a dork? The Church of Perelandra: http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 B5 (passing beyond the Rim) list: babylon5-request@gatekey.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:21 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 17:46:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqpZb-0002nZ-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:46:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:13:46 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199707230013.AA14360@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 Resent-Message-ID: <"XBVEOC.A.ASC._NV1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:46:35 -0700 X-UIDL: cdc115d7c90fddeb71e73784d11db157 >one bounce forward so far, but I've got grave doubts as to the = >usability of four generations of "bounce four tracks into one" with = >modern ears. It's one thing for the Beatles or Brian Wilson to have = >crammed everything together into the glorious Wall-o-Mono, but thirty = >years down the road... Back when my 4-track worked, I had good decent results on tape with bouncing to an external stereo mix, then back, which let me add 2 tracks to a stereo mix every 2 tape bounces. I did two recordings with 10 tracks (and many with 8) this way; I just had to be careful to make sure that the first parts recorded don't care about high-end loss or are relatively down in the mix (and you have to get pretty good about anticipating the entire mix during bouncedown, which is an otherwise worthless skill). These days, using a DAT would halve the number of tape generations. Stereo "bounce ahead" would work pretty well for this, but I don't suppose that's a feature on the minidisc multitracks? Much as I've suggested that MIDI looping could do lots of things audio looping can't, I wish digital recorders weren't so tied to the "tape multitrack" metaphor. There's no reason in software you can't mix arbitrary numbers of tracks together, not in real-time, but as far as I know, all of the computer-based "digital multitracks" still require you to manually bounce things down yourself, rather than automate the process. But this is getting way off topic... Sean Barrett From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:23 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 18:03:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqppb-0004Op-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:03:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:57:51 -0400 (EDT) From: ANET@aol.com Message-ID: <970722205746_785071945@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: jamman Resent-Message-ID: <"oLVD0C.A.zsD.RdV1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/31 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:03:07 -0700 X-UIDL: b8b52206df9c90561899033a838b33b8 Ambience is controlled prior to the loops being layered. Sometimes a build-up into silence is great. However; if you don't like that, lay the loops down "pp" so that the mulitple effect is a "mf". If you have done it correctly, then you will know when the loop ends. Just start playing with the loop one measure prior to the end and viola, a seemless concert. Belive me, it works very well. The key is "dynamic" volume throughout the song. With loops, "dynamics" are even more important than without. See Ya!!!!!!!!!!! Have a great loop!!!!!!!!! Played last Sunday and knocked 'em out! From ???@??? Tue Jul 22 22:34:23 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 22 18:03:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqpq2-0004Rh-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:03:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:59:28 -0400 (EDT) From: ANET@aol.com Message-ID: <970722205925_785071946@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: jamman Resent-Message-ID: <"ErRLc.A.84D.CfV1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/32 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:03:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 8b82a1fde6a9eacc6b9f61a77b0fff51 Excellent reply, this is exactly what a magician does. Loopers are magical!!!!!!! See ya!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a great loop!!!!! From ???@??? Mon Feb 16 02:37:27 1998 >From kflint Sun Feb 15 22:07:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y4JiT-0007I0-00; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:07:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970722224951.007a8800@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:49:51 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: screaming guitar In-Reply-To: <199802121946.OAA13787@shell.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oczIRD.A.-mG.hc950"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3326 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:07:45 -0800 X-UIDL: ff051a166aa711584a89984520a2cccc I almost forgot, I also like to push the ebow really hard into the strings over and around the pick-ups of my guitar. It makes a wild scream-like sound and by moving the ebow up and down near the pick-ups, it's tunable as well. I think it's quite amazing and can be extremely frightening when used correctly... smiles, Corynne At 02:45 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >> theatrical appeal are those compressed air cans that you can readily buy >at >> radio shack (and elsewhere) to blow the dust from sensitive electronic >parts. >> They usually come with a thin plastic tube that inserts into the >nozzle--very >> handy for precise aiming at whatever portion of the strings you care to >blow >> on. Somewhere around the 12th fret usually works better for me. >> >> >> >> If you want the same effect, with a bit more theatrical appeal, you can >use a >> trick Gary Davis (of San Diego's Custom Floor) showed me. Blow up a >brightly >> colored balloon (the performance element), and use that for your >compressed- >> air exciter source. Cheaper than compressed air too... >> >> -Mike > >...not to mention a bit better for the ol' environs...... > >though it is nice that most of that stuff is now CFC - free. > > >> > > > From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 08:43:16 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 08:12:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wr358-0002Jf-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:12:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199707231508.IAA32212@apple.com> Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 10:10:53 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"ceDK1B.A.Q9B.P6h1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/35 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:12:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 598868c9042a8c86d486fbf9a2ebf634 >Back when my 4-track worked, I had good decent results on tape with >bouncing to an external stereo mix, then back, which let me add 2 tracks >to a stereo mix every 2 tape bounces. I did two recordings with >10 tracks (and many with 8) this way; I just had to be careful to make >sure that the first parts recorded don't care about high-end loss or are >relatively down in the mix (and you have to get pretty good about >anticipating the entire mix during bouncedown, which is an otherwise >worthless skill). These days, using a DAT would halve the number >of tape generations. > >Stereo "bounce ahead" would work pretty well for this, but I don't >suppose that's a feature on the minidisc multitracks? What do you mean by "stereo bounce ahead"? You can bounce forward to two tracks, treating it just like a stereo mix to tape. Travis From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 08:43:05 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 02:30:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wqxkv-0005Pd-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:30:49 -0700 Message-ID: <33D5EB8C.7498@infobiogen.fr> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:31:29 +0000 From: Malhomme Olivier Reply-To: malhomme@infobiogen.fr Organization: I P L X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:Ambient? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hbR19B.A.24E.l6c1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/33 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:30:49 -0700 X-UIDL: a8b10d471753c0ac9395b448ea660851 Matthias, you said we all play ambient? Well, would you call what I do "ambient"? (well, i'm looking for a name for it for so long a time...) Must we all be held by some magical "ambient hand" when working with loops? duh! Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 08:43:12 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 07:11:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wr28J-0006dK-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:11:15 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC9751.45A64140@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:14:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LZdrlC.A.0DG.rBh1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/34 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:11:15 -0700 X-UIDL: d7085a87fea5b2e513f2cf925a86d9ec James, Why don't you tape your performance and make it available to us loopers at a nominal charge? Mark Kata ---------- From: james rhodes[SMTP:sharkey@texas.net] Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 8:38 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) hi folks, looping live with the Chapman Stick(R) on Sat july 26 at the Wong Spot, 1203 East Commerce St., San Antonio ,TX ..but the main feature is an art exhibit featuring 13 artists from Latin America, Mexico, US,,,maybe some other countries too. i'll be providing the musical backdrop from 6-8pm. one can reach the Wong Spot at 210-506-1710 for further details...these are very fine artists, displaying very fine works,,, have'nt done very many SOLO looping/soundexpressions performances,,,so i hope to have a lot of fun,,,anyone this far south,,,please e-mail me or drop by if you like the painted picture...........of sound....of sound....of sound james rhodes From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 23:42:15 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 17:22:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrBfQ-0000fv-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:22:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:15:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707240015.TAA23142@mail2.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: RE: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) Resent-Message-ID: <"XU3mhB.A.WH.G7p1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/36 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:22:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 73446e5a384c790119db1955de1c927c hi mark, havent made up my mind whether i will record the evening,,,if i do,,i'll let the list know... thanks for your interest, james rhodes At 10:14 AM 7/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >James, > >Why don't you tape your performance and make it available to us loopers at a nominal charge? > >Mark Kata > >---------- >From: james rhodes[SMTP:sharkey@texas.net] >Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 8:38 PM >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Subject: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) > >hi folks, > >looping live with the Chapman Stick(R) on Sat july 26 at the Wong Spot, >1203 East Commerce St., San Antonio ,TX ..but the main feature is an art >exhibit featuring 13 artists from Latin America, Mexico, US,,,maybe some >other countries too. i'll be providing the musical backdrop from 6-8pm. one >can reach the Wong Spot at 210-506-1710 for further details...these are very >fine artists, displaying very fine works,,, > >have'nt done very many SOLO looping/soundexpressions performances,,,so i >hope to have a lot of fun,,,anyone this far south,,,please e-mail me or drop >by if you like the painted picture...........of sound....of sound....of sound > >james rhodes > > > > > > > From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 23:42:16 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 17:41:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrByX-00027L-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:41:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970723193314.008652e0@texas.net> X-Sender: ranjones@texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:33:16 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Randy Jones Subject: Re: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eESsGC.A.xvB.uQq1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/37 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:41:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 35e3a510b7c135f618fe97a038e63de9 Alright! Someone in here from SA. I'm there dude! And a Chapman. I always wanted to see one. Very lookin' forward! rj At 12:38 AM 7/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >hi folks, > >looping live with the Chapman Stick(R) on Sat july 26 at the Wong Spot, >1203 East Commerce St., San Antonio ,TX ..but the main feature is an art >exhibit featuring 13 artists from Latin America, Mexico, US,,,maybe some >other countries too. i'll be providing the musical backdrop from 6-8pm. one >can reach the Wong Spot at 210-506-1710 for further details...these are very >fine artists, displaying very fine works,,, > >have'nt done very many SOLO looping/soundexpressions performances,,,so i >hope to have a lot of fun,,,anyone this far south,,,please e-mail me or drop >by if you like the painted picture...........of sound....of sound....of sound > >james rhodes > > > > From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 23:42:18 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 18:30:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrCjZ-00058v-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:30:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:25:52 -0400 (EDT) From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <970723212546_1180746994@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: live looping in NYC Resent-Message-ID: <"NGxMBB.A.FjE.i9q1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/38 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:30:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 4850203d1d63dd9f75fa097db322e165 Hey all loopers! quick little plug: I will be playing guitar & doing a little looping behind Irish singer Noella Hutton in NYC/Greenwich village at; Arlene's Grocery, 95 Stanton St (between Orchard & Ludlow) on Monday 28th July/ 7pm. Great little band; we're there to showcase Noella to her label (MCA) prior to the release of her debut cd. best, Robby Aceto From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 23:42:19 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 19:22:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrDXp-0000RK-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:22:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:18:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707240218.VAA25574@mail1.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: Re: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R) Resent-Message-ID: <"35HRdC.A.hF.7tr1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/39 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:22:21 -0700 X-UIDL: f94f6b385e5145d7e94648f84c33c4c5 great!!! drop by and say hi... james At 07:33 PM 7/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >Alright! Someone in here from SA. I'm there dude! And a Chapman. I always >wanted to see one. Very lookin' forward! >rj > >At 12:38 AM 7/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >>hi folks, >> >>looping live with the Chapman Stick(R) on Sat july 26 at the Wong Spot, >>1203 East Commerce St., San Antonio ,TX ..but the main feature is an art >>exhibit featuring 13 artists from Latin America, Mexico, US,,,maybe some >>other countries too. i'll be providing the musical backdrop from 6-8pm. one >>can reach the Wong Spot at 210-506-1710 for further details...these are very >>fine artists, displaying very fine works,,, >> >>have'nt done very many SOLO looping/soundexpressions performances,,,so i >>hope to have a lot of fun,,,anyone this far south,,,please e-mail me or drop >>by if you like the painted picture...........of sound....of sound....of sound >> >>james rhodes >> >> >> >> > > > From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 23:42:21 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 23 21:33:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrFb7-0007RP-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:33:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: WARNING: IMPENDING LIVE PERFORMANCES TO INVADE LA! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4lBM5C.A.MvG.Zpt1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/40 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:33:53 -0700 X-UIDL: a8f454a60b3fdd302c894ebe348b41de Hi people. Here's some important news for any experimentally-inclined SoCal music players or fans. It's long, but worth checking out: It looks as if there's some hope for experimental music in Los Angeles. There's been some talk on the list about a new club called Lumpy Gravy, which is a sort of combination experiental music venue/art gallery/restaurant which opened in February. Our own Ken Roesser has done some playing there, as have a number of other artists, many of whom are related to the music of this list. I just got off the phone with Scott Johnson, who is the new manager/coordinator/damage control specialist at the place. He's very interested in trying to cultivate a number of unusual and experimental shows at Lumpy Gravy, and seems committed to making the place work. One notion which caught my ear in particular was an idea for a sort of "electronic jam session," probably to happen on Tuesday nights. He envisions having different electronically-oriented artists coming up and doing some spontaneous collective playing -- sort of a blues jam session for the end of the Millenium, or something. I'm dropping this note to first of all encourage everyone in the SoCal area to check the place out, or to get in touch with the club to see about booking some shows there; the number is (213) 934-9400, and the people to direct a tape to are Scott Johnson and/or two young women by the names of Lee and Christina, who are in charge of co-management and booking. In the self-promotional department, I'm already booked for two gigs there: Thursday, August 7th, and Tuesday, August 26th, with another show in between those two likely to be added; it looks like Lumpy Gravy is interested in setting up some sort of regular residency there. Now here's the interesting part: I just happened to send my Echoplex in to Oberheim this very afternoon for repair, and Dean Fouts at Oberheim estimates roughly a one-month turnaround. (Isn't it ironic, don't you think...?!) I told Scott at Lumpy Gravy about this, but he seemed anxious to book something soon. Since it's not often that club owners try to set up immediate residencies for looping artists, I wasn't about to postpone the bookings while the Echoplex (hopefully) gets repaired, so I'll likely be doing these upcoming shows with a Vortex-and-MIDI-guitar-based rig (and hoping the engineers up in Oakland can put my Plex to rights sooner than later!) That's fine, really, as it'll give me a good excuse to delve more heavily into those oft-neglected items. The shows are probably slated to run from 8:00 to 11:00 PM (we'd like to do three hours of continuous music, which isn't such a stretch with looping); the cover will likely be $3. Scott mentioned that he's trying to cultivate the restaurant aspect of the place, so my mission will be music that people can comfortably eat to (sounds like the oft-spoken "ambient" word...) -- call it a chill room with waiters. I also mentioned to Scott that I and other people on this list have been trying in vain to try and organize a multi-artist loop show; he seemed *very* receptive to the idea of staging something there, saying that Lumpy Gravy would likely be the ideal place in town for this sort of thing. It may not be too far in the future that we can actually try and make the oft-postponed California Loop show a reality. There might, in fact, be the potential for it to become a semi-regular event! If any of you can check out the upcoming gigs there, I'll very much appreciate it. I get a very good vibe from the people there; they seem very interested in trying to cultivate a genuinely creative environment that can accommodate a variety of different experimental arts. In this town (or anywhere else, for that matter), they'll need some help, so I urge anyone in the area to look into the place, as a performer, an audience member, or both. Best, --Andre From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 09:22:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 24 03:57:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrLZt-0005pN-00; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:57:01 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:53:36 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: "bring it back down" Resent-Message-ID: <"gfc_0.A.VPF.oQz1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/41 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:57:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 367518fd8b4e6480510fa362e5b24f80 Siobhan Canty about how to "bring it back down" ? >I only have one of these toys, which is limiting so >I have more ideas at this point than practical applications....Right now, I >make the last vocal line I lay down indicate impending harmonic or rhythmic >change with a twist or turn that is noticeably different than the previous >loops. Then I bring down the volumn while singing a live line that builds >on that last twist... in effect then, the last loop acts as the transition >loop and the listener is moved through the transition smoothly...I guess >what I try to do is create a distraction so that they don't pay too much >attention to the fact that the machine is being taken out...make them move >forward with you...before they know it, you have changed pitch or rhythm, >and have started a whole new looping sequence. I think I did such transitions, too. Isn't that last twist slightly disharmonic, so that the listener feels rather relieved than missing something, when you shut the loop down? (is that what "impending" means?) Do you cut it at once or with a slight fade? On the Echoplex, I developped the following methods to "bring it back down": 1. Use Undo to go back to the beginning of the buildup and than either fade this thin base or build on it into another direction. 2. Use multiple loops, record the base on one, copy it to another while building on top of it and then come back to the first to "bring it back down" 3. Use Replace: While the full loop is going, you sing another voice on top (probable rather "on the bottom") of it and the next time around, only the last voice appears and you can go on building on it, without ever being "left alone" by the machine. This function is the same as Feedback down + Overdub on. 4. Multiply: You chop out a bit of the full loop, either one or two bars (Multiply-Multiply), or even a different timing (Multiply-Record) to create a new rhythm, and then fade it while building the next base whereon you can build a longer theme with Multiply again. >Ideally, however, I would love to have a number (at least two) of Jammen so >that I could create overlapping harmonies that fit together yet act as >different sections when playing alone. For example, I could lay down four >vocal parts on one JamMan...and then lay down the next two, three or four >in the same basic tempo but on a different JamMan and with different >harmonic and rythmic qualities. I could let them groove for a bit (until >that dangerous monotony starts threatening) and then pull out the first >JamMan, leaving the second one to continue...You could hand the sections >back and forth between Jammen that way...Just ideas...I can't wait until I >actually have two to see what really happens.... Some people on the list are strong on that. I somehow could not handle it and now my partner percussionist Bira Reis uses second Plex syncronized but with independent multiple of bars. Its a broad field. We usually keep both going and modifying. One can fade out while the other stays or one can stay in a non rhithmic base while to other starts a new theme on a different loop length where then the first can resynchronize to. I keep learning about the necessary software to make this easy, too... Loads of inspired loop chants! Matthias From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 09:22:19 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 24 03:57:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrLZx-0005pr-00; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:57:05 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:54:57 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 Resent-Message-ID: <"VoaH1B.A.HTF.2Rz1z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/42 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:57:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 8214cc8f68d47c8b32fe87d81aad6466 Sean said: >Much as I've suggested that MIDI looping could do lots of >things audio looping can't, I wish digital recorders weren't >so tied to the "tape multitrack" metaphor. Fully lagreed. Will be a question of time to overcome the tradition adn elaborate a different model. I wonder what the next version of DECK "using the library extensively" brings. >There's no reason >in software you can't mix arbitrary numbers of tracks together, >not in real-time, but as far as I know, all of the computer-based >"digital multitracks" still require you to manually bounce things >down yourself, rather than automate the process. But this is >getting way off topic... Not so much, because similar questions apply for multitrack looping or the adaption of a HD sound editor for looping. We had some of this talk last september under the great subject "helo and such" and maybe others. Matthias From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 09:22:38 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 24 09:11:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrQTn-0004gW-00; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:11:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199707241602.JAA16792@apple.com> Subject: Live looping in Austin, TX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 11:04:35 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bcc: Resent-Message-ID: <"UcN2qD.A.29D.K131z"@ferret> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/45 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:11:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 9203d3e20fdbffc86132056e7896786a Tiktok will be playing at Manor Road Coffeehouse on Saturday, July 26th, between 7 and 9 PM. MRC is located on Manor Road, in Austin, Texas, on the right a block before East Side Cafe. There's no cover. Tiktok (Travis Hartnett and Jon Matis) From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 09:22:29 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 24 06:52:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrOJG-0004QS-00; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:52:02 -0700 Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F1141E4@mail.exapps.com> From: David Kirkdorffer To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: multi-loop playback Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:50:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"mABU3C.A.D_D.X111z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/43 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:52:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 40df9b4fab2d3fb5f19523cf09f772b3 -----Original Message----- From: Nameless to the Goddess [SMTP:afn39111@afn.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 7:19 PM Subject: multi-loop playback My first question is, is there a looper that can output more than one loop at a time? It seems sort of limiting to have only one loop, when two different length loops would sound so much more interesting. It seems sort of expensive to buy two devices. Jus wondering. Dear Jus Wondering -- Remember, if you start with a 4-bar phrase, you can OVERDUB two 2-bar phrases then you can MULTIPLY all of this to create a 16-bar loop and then OVERDUB another two 8-bar phrases and then MULTIPLY all this by 2 (to have a 32-bar loop) and then OVERDUB a 16-bar phrase (starting at the 8th-bar if you want...) The "length" of the loop is mostly "felt" if the music points it out. From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 09:22:34 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 24 07:45:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrP9L-00071x-00; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:45:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:20:03 -0400 From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <199707241420.KAA22437@goomba.ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Administrative Help X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"S3N-9.A.faG.yn21z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/44 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:45:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 45f08ff5b7c29ec21355c1484651da83 I really hate to send this to the list, because I hate in when I see these messages showing up in MY email, but.... I've tried every address and command I know of, and I cannot unsub.... can someone help? TIA From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 17:07:00 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 24 11:20:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrSV6-0005kX-00; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:20:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Web page gig listings? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TlFyaC.A.u_E._u51z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/46 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:20:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 9dd3de00f0aca175048f343276314303 Hey all -- There seems to be quite a bit of live looping going on with the members of the list. Would somebody be willing to help set up and maintain a regular page on the main web site to announce upcoming and current performances? It might be a great way to spread the word, as well as reminding the regulars here of what's going on. Best, --Andre From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 09:04:22 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 24 20:46:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrbKt-0002dZ-00; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:46:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970724223707.007ba6d0@texas.net> X-Sender: ranjones@texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:37:09 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Randy Jones Subject: Old Echoplex Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6M75sC.A.LQC.KDC2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:46:35 -0700 X-UIDL: f78b395895215fc5b67571431e2d09a6 Hello, Old tape echoplex. Someone here may want this, ran across it tonight. It'll be gone tomorrow. http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=ool1291 Cheers, Randy Jones From ???@??? Tue Feb 17 23:54:18 1998 >From kflint Tue Feb 17 23:37:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y544Y-0006nW-00; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:37:38 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970725003212.007b2300@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:32:12 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: Frisell's Looping techniques and composite necks... In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980218035440.00a25908@pop.chromatic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8y_UmD.A.BFG.N8o60"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3401 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:37:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 3a473c745e45d15ead0d52f801fa9d16 Thought the neck is composite, it may be able to be bent slightly. I found that the neck on my stienberger will bend slightly though, not enough to be of much use musically in my opinion... A very effective way of eminating a steel guitar type bend is to: bar strings 1 and 2 with the second finger (middle finger) of the left hand and then, place the first finger at the third string one fret lower and bend it up. what comes out is a wonderful approximation of a steel guitar sound. This can be enhanced with a volume swell and or delay or reverb... use your imagination... smiles, Corynne At 07:54 PM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:45 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >>On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Randy Jones wrote: >> >>> What creates that pedal steel effect? Is it just the trans trem on the >>> Klein? >> >>He was getting that effect 15 years ago with a Gibson SG with no whammy. >>Just bending the neck... easy with an SG (i had a roommate who was >>constantly popping his SG neck off the guitar that way). I kinda doubt >>he's bending the neck on a Klein, though, considering that it's carbon >>fiber. Oh, and don't forget the volume pedal and delay! > >that's funny, the neck on my klein looks like guatemalan rosewood. although, >I don't expect I'll be bending many chords that way....not a guitar I want >to be breaking any time soon....:-) Klein only uses the carbon fiber necks >if you ask, and I don't think anybody does. > >kim >_______________________________________________________ >Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > > > From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 09:04:29 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 25 09:01:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrmoD-0006wZ-00; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:01:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:56:20 -0400 (EDT) From: ZeplinSoup@aol.com Message-ID: <970725115532_-1608947394@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MAX/ MIDI Looping+Mac Emulator Resent-Message-ID: <"Z0VDxD.A.WKG.izM2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/48 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:01:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 6dde9b0281b7ca58c291b73f0018c742 Hello dere boyz an gurlz...I have read about MAX,but I think it was in "music and computers" mag...Is my recollection correct that it is a MAC program?If so does anyone know if the current MAC EMULATORS for PCs support sound Yet?The Peace Out Reeve From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 10:48:16 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 25 10:54:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wroWV-0006bq-00; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:51:27 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:34:46 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Web page gig listings? Resent-Message-ID: <"j3k0Q.A.zDF.-OO2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/49 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:51:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 94a2bac72c819effd62ef2cc7f7b84b6 >Hey all -- > >There seems to be quite a bit of live looping going on with the members >of the list. Would somebody be willing to help set up and maintain a >regular page on the main web site to announce upcoming and current >performances? It might be a great way to spread the word, as well as >reminding the regulars here of what's going on. > >Best, > >--Andre Oh yes, I play tomorrow here in the Salvador, Brasil... :-) Seriously, thats a brilliant idea! It may turn into a history file, too. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 10:48:18 1997 >From kflint Fri Jul 25 12:38:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wrqBt-00011Z-00; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:38:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199707251833.LAA27784@usr02.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Web page gig listings? Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:31:44 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E6s27C.A.pK.g8P2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/50 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:38:17 -0700 X-UIDL: fb9ea69379895a8f4354d2d1b297122a Andre proposed: > There seems to be quite a bit of live looping going on with the members > of the list. Would somebody be willing to help set up and maintain a > regular page on the main web site to announce upcoming and current > performances? It might be a great way to spread the word, as well as > reminding the regulars here of what's going on. I agree! I suspect a lot of folks think someone else will keep track of us... Lord knows we don't want to end up on the wrong section of a 'musical family tree' constructed in 2106 or so, perhaps the kind that would list one of us adjacent to the New Kids On The Block (or their 90s version, the Spice Girls)! It would also be a great way to keep track of the growth or non-growth of 'our kind of music', whatever that is this week. * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios From ???@??? Thu Feb 19 00:20:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Feb 18 20:37:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5Nk0-0000Uh-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:37:44 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970725205754.007a8100@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:57:54 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: bending necks, or, want to feel my muscle, ladies? In-Reply-To: <34EAC110.737E@nyfac.com> References: <6a9c1d3c.34eadb74@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bciU3D.A.1sG.uT760"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3430 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:37:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 404daeb41994a90b66e5539aa7d38440 Though I mentioned the possibility of bending a Steinberger neck or some such composite, This is not something which I do or suggest doing whether on a composite neck or any other... I personally perfer other ways of achieving the same or a simular effect and not risking the well-being of the instrument or the player... smiles, Corynne At 11:08 AM 2/18/98 +0000, you wrote: >> <> Just bending the neck... easy with an SG (i had a roommate who was >> constantly popping his SG neck off the guitar that way). >> >> Frisell's Klein has a solid rosewood neck, not the Steinberger composite. It >> is possible to bend the neck, but I certainly would hesitate to do that to >> mine! > >I strongly advise that you avoid doing that with a PRS bolt-on. I had >mine about two months before a tore the neck out of its joint, reducing >me to tears practically (having just spent a fortune that I only barely >had on it) but forever impressing the hell out of my friends. > >They never let me borrow one of their guitars again. > > >Trev > >PS: I have to say- the folks at the PRS factory were super-cool about >the whole thing. Much cooler than 95% of the dickheads in the store I >bought it from. My salesperson and his friedn stood around, looking at >the guitar and shaking their heads. Finally, one of the guys in the >shop took pity on me and called PRS. > >They made me a new guitar about twice as nice as the one I had before >fairly quickly. Finally, after two or three thousend pickup/wiring >schemes later, I sold it. It was the most comfortable and well designed >guitar I ever had, but gave me the tone of an LA studio musician. >Wonder what one would sound like with those P-94 pickups in it.... > > > From ???@??? Thu Feb 19 00:20:20 1998 >From kflint Wed Feb 18 20:37:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5Nju-0000Ty-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:37:38 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970725210100.007a1890@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:01:00 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: Pedal Steel Licks In-Reply-To: <98Feb18.100642cst.26882@gateway.gibson.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19970725003212.007b2300@pop3.concentric.net> <2.2.32.19980218035440.00a25908@pop.chromatic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IYc0oD.A.UsG.rT760"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3429 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:37:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 53ad74a04d383bd136e2b2e7f1e14e02 Thanks, will try it and see what comes out! Corynne At 10:10 AM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote: > >> >>bar strings 1 and 2 with the second finger (middle finger) of the left hand >>and then, >> >>place the first finger at the third string one fret lower and bend it up. >> >Or...In the key of C, place your 4th finger on the 8th fret of the E >string, your 3rd finger on the 8th fret of the B string and your 2nd finger >on the 7th fret of the G string. You bend the G string up a whole step, >raising it from a 2nd to the Major 3rd. While that bend is held, bend the B >string up a whole step from G to A. Hold both bends (it is hard, at first) >and pick the high E string, then the bent B string, then pull off the high >C note (on the E string) to a Bb note fretted by your first finger. Now >pick and release the B string and then pick and release the G string. It's >kinda steelish, kinda Jeff Beckish and is sure to impress the guys down at >the music store this Saturday afternoon. > >Tom "Jes' soakin' up some local color" Spaulding > > > > From ???@??? Thu Feb 19 00:20:20 1998 >From kflint Wed Feb 18 20:37:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5Nk3-0000V5-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:37:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970725212945.007a77c0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:29:45 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: looping and "normal music" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7dUAdB.A.RtG.wT760"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3431 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:37:47 -0800 X-UIDL: ff4b94563e909ad6c06b9fe98f2a4eeb I've noticed lately that the conversation has come around to the concept that looping and guitarists seem to make up the majority of people on this list. As a guitarist myself, I view the guitar only as one outlet of my expression or of music to come through me. I also sing and play flute and try to express my creativity in any way shape or form I see fit and possible. I call myself a guitarist only because it's what I've studied a lot more of than other instruments but more so, I study and live life with a creative and open heart to the best of my abilities. As for the concept of looping, I see it as another form of creative tool as in another instrument or aspect of a larger library of ideas and voices. I think looping only depends on what the player or the music asks of it. So, the music plays me whether I like it or not, and loops in my opinion can be different things to different people in different situations. A heart beat is a loop... smiles, Corynne From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 10:48:39 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 26 06:07:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0ws6ZK-0007Xo-00; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 06:07:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:04:59 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter) Subject: Akai S20 Resent-Message-ID: <"OvQC-C.A.w9G.BYf2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/51 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 06:07:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 43eb9dba40ac311a1194ca528d60fa55 Hi, Does anyone know of the looping cababilities of this phrase sampler? I picked this up from another mailing: "Akai has a new phrase sampler coming soon: The S20 16-bit Stereo Phrase Sampler is designed to provide everything you need to sample audio, then slice it, dice, it, and stitch it back together again. Up to 17 Mb of memory, onboard disk drive, easy user interface, RCA outs for easy connection to DJ mixers....." I cant remember if this device has been discussed here before. Later, Hayden Porter hporter@uakron.edu From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 10:48:44 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 26 10:01:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsADK-0006wO-00; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:01:06 -0700 Message-ID: <33DA49D8.EB5C5DBF@interaccess.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:02:49 -0700 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Akai S20 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WpcKTD.A.7YG.Szi2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:01:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 152141bc265371c2983f0eb17564dca1 I just read a review in Sound on Sound, looks like it would work well for looping, one push to set record mode, another to select the "bank" to record into and to trigger recording, then another push to stop recoding & start looping. That does require a free hand, but you get 16 banks to store samples/loops in & it has reversing & a beat matching facility. No layering like an echoplex though, its designed mostly for DJ's. There was also a review in the June issue about the Notron hardware sequencer, which looked really wild, sort of an apeggiator on steriods. Jim Hayden Porter wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know of the looping cababilities of this phrase sampler? > > I picked this up from another mailing: > > "Akai has a new phrase sampler coming soon: The S20 16-bit Stereo > Phrase > Sampler is designed to provide everything you need to sample audio, > then slice > it, dice, it, and stitch it back together again. Up to 17 Mb of > memory, > onboard disk drive, easy user interface, RCA outs for easy connection > to DJ > mixers....." > > I cant remember if this device has been discussed here before. > > Later, > > Hayden Porter > hporter@uakron.edu From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 16:44:03 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 26 12:10:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsCEp-0005O1-00; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:10:47 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970725115532_-1608947394@emout03.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:03:30 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MAX/ MIDI Looping+Mac Emulator Resent-Message-ID: <"PhKwhC.A.ZzE.ask2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/53 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:10:47 -0700 X-UIDL: b75c266947f671d68335915d518338af At 11:56 AM -0400 7/25/97, ZeplinSoup@aol.com wrote: >Hello dere boyz an gurlz...I have read about MAX,but I think it was in "music >and computers" mag...Is my recollection correct that it is a MAC program?If >so does anyone know if the current MAC EMULATORS for PCs support sound >Yet?The > Peace Out >Reeve Max is a mac program, from Opcode. I have no idea if it works on a mac emulator. It isn't really audio, though. It allows you to easily write programs for controlling midi data. (althought there are some max objects for audio, quicktime, etc.) Since it is very real-time oriented, with 1ms resolution, it probably does a lot of low level stuff that an emulator might not be able to handle. I don't know for sure. You definitely don't want anything else running on the computer that might interfere with max's ability to keep it's timing accurate. It would probably be better to buy an old 68040 mac for a couple hundred $ and use it just for max. I knew one guy with an old MacSE that just served the purpose of generating a master midi clock with max. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 16:44:05 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 26 14:10:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsE6f-0001BP-00; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:10:29 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:06:12 -0400 (EDT) From: ZeplinSoup@aol.com Message-ID: <970726170611_-55570937@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MAX/ MIDI Looping+Mac Emulator Resent-Message-ID: <"pnbLZC.A.M0.Dcm2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/54 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:10:29 -0700 X-UIDL: eded495439241132ce0b709717e5f95a Is max that cool?enough to warrant the Mac(better computer,but when it comes to marketing Apple made the biggest mistak in Marketing History when It did not allow clones...oh well.. Reeve From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 16:44:06 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 26 14:51:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsEkR-0004uy-00; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:51:35 -0700 Message-ID: <33DA7F43.7BC2@fredmarshall.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:50:44 -0800 From: fred marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MAX/ MIDI Looping+Mac Emulator References: <970726170611_-55570937@emout04.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y7YatC.A.PUE.fCn2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/55 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:51:35 -0700 X-UIDL: a10993319624e64ca227d7c682158447 ZeplinSoup@AOL.COM wrote: > > Is max that cool?enough to warrant the Mac(better computer,but when it comes > to marketing Apple made the biggest mistak in Marketing History when It did > not allow clones...oh well.. > Reeve - yup. - the Mac SE-30* (w/8megs ram, b/w, probably w/printer incl) is available all over town for about $200, probably less. This was about a $3k machine just a few years ago - however that was B.C. (before clones) - maybe the clones, though already inexpensive, will lose their value more gracefully. * when run w/out dragging colors along for the ride, you probably won't even grow too many grey hairs during re-draws . . . mmmmmmm From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 17:38:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 26 17:29:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsHDB-0002rG-00; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:29:25 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970726170611_-55570937@emout04.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:20:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MAX/ MIDI Looping+Mac Emulator Resent-Message-ID: <"NKOolB.A.6bC.zWp2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/57 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:29:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 3c131619479ca504625daa365ea419e1 At 5:06 PM -0400 7/26/97, ZeplinSoup@aol.com wrote: >Is max that cool?enough to warrant the Mac(better computer,but when it comes >to marketing Apple made the biggest mistak in Marketing History when It did >not allow clones...oh well.. >Reeve I think it's that cool. You don't need an amazingly powerful machine to run it. A used centris 650 or something would be fine and probably cost a lot less than Max. In keeping with the recycled-computer-as-dedicated-music-tool theme, I've also heard of people buying old nubus based macs (like the IIci) and getting a lexicon nuverb card for it. Apparently much cheaper than getting a high end lex reverb and almost as good. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 26 17:21:57 1997 >From kflint Sat Jul 26 17:24:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsH8n-0002SQ-00; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:24:53 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:24:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: MAX/ MIDI Looping+Mac Emulator Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"2EWHC.A.qDC.eSp2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/56 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:24:53 -0700 X-UIDL: c93cb65684ccfdffc891c4e377b353cc At 5:06 PM 7/26/97, ZeplinSoup@aol.com wrote: >Is max that cool?enough to warrant the Mac(better computer,but when it comes >to marketing Apple made the biggest mistak in Marketing History when It did >not allow clones...oh well.. >Reeve MAX is one of the better reasons to own a mac, IMHO, I mean, I'm a total mac bigot, but to be honest, MAX is just about the only thing that I use regularly that doesn't have a windows equivalent. And it will run great on a lesser mac, I have it running on a IIsi w/5 megs of RAM, runs great. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Feb 20 01:45:35 1998 >From kflint Thu Feb 19 21:57:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5lSY-0006S5-00; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:57:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970726213755.007ad9b0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:37:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: looping and "normal music" In-Reply-To: <98Feb19.074907cst.26884@gateway.gibson.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19980219070104.0075f1a8@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Eqdcm.A.XnE.nhR70"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3465 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:57:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 5cca1cf123fc636013663f1d94a316f0 My loops can exhibit starting and ending points as well, and they certainly have a finite number of repetitions which is shown when either the loop fades, is stopped, or the machines are turned off... As pragmatic is it was, I'm sorry to have to be the one to be poetic... smiles, Corynne At 07:52 AM 2/19/98 -0600, you wrote: >>A heart beat is a loop... > > >Not really.... >It has a starting point and ending point and when everything is said and >done, there will be a finite number of beats... > >Oh well,as poetic as it is, I'm sorry to be the one that has to pop the >bubble ;) > > > From ???@??? Fri Feb 20 01:45:39 1998 >From kflint Thu Feb 19 22:41:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5lT7-0006Wq-00; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:57:53 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970726222245.0079faa0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:22:45 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: looping and "normal music" In-Reply-To: <98Feb19.095451cst.26886@gateway.gibson.com> References: <199802191542.IAA17600@hyper.dimensional.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2x_FBC.A.UoE.shR70"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3466 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:57:53 -0800 X-UIDL: a8bb2f512d2a5a91d1b22b80edb2059c Last night I threw a pebble into the pond and look at all the pretty ripples it made, but these, the ripples, are not the essence of the pebble... smiles, Corynne At 09:58 AM 2/19/98 -0600, you wrote: >Come to think of it, not everything that is called a loop is in fact a >loop. Just a linear string of events, whether they are notes, heartbeats, >or whatever. If it has a beginning and an end then it isn't a loop..... >Pseudo Loopers Delight? >Linear Events Delight? >Just popping more bubbles. > > > > >>Yo Pat, >> >>Come round to my place and I'll hook you up to a 12-lead EKG... You can see >>for yourself just how much a heartbeat resembles a loop. It is a little >>ostinato comprised of five segments that repeat over and over and over, yet >>are dynamic. It even mirrors your emotional state--it builds up when >>you're excited, slows down when you're at peace, changes shape when you're >>sick. >> >>And yeah, there is a finite number of beats. Every story--be it a life, or >>a loop--has a beginning and an ending. >> >>If I could make loops like that, I'd be God. A heartbeat, indeed, is a >>loop. :-) >> >>Scott >>---------- >>> From: Pat Murphy >>> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>> Subject: Re: looping and "normal music" >>> Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 06:52 >>> >>> >A heart beat is a loop... >>> >>> >>> Not really.... >>> It has a starting point and ending point and when everything is said and >>> done, there will be a finite number of beats... >>> >>> Oh well,as poetic as it is, I'm sorry to be the one that has to pop the >>> bubble ;) >> >> >> > > > From ???@??? Fri Feb 20 01:45:36 1998 >From kflint Thu Feb 19 21:58:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5lTh-0006bH-00; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:58:29 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970726222835.007a27f0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:28:35 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: bending necks, or, want to feel my muscle, ladies? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980219171410.0066960c@interactive.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xQr9iC.A.dpE.yhR70"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3467 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:58:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 2e7c091853f6b91afb506c4901516a8b I agree, good point! Corynne At 12:14 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:57 PM 7/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >> Though I mentioned the possibility of bending a Steinberger neck or some >>such composite, This is not something which I do or suggest doing whether >>on a composite neck or any other... I personally perfer other ways of >>achieving the same or a simular effect and not risking the well-being of >>the instrument or the player... >> >>smiles, >> >>Corynne > >I just realized that this must be absolutely the only list where >one can find people debating the merits of bending a Steinberger >or Klein neck. Not that I've any idea of the significance of such >debate... > >Personally, I would never bend the neck on my Klein. It's got no >truss rod and just a few screws keeping it in place. >Jonathan Brainin >jbrainin@interactive.net > > > > From ???@??? Fri Feb 20 01:45:38 1998 >From kflint Thu Feb 19 21:59:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5lUA-0006ex-00; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:58:58 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970726223217.007a8850@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:32:17 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: looping and "normal music" In-Reply-To: <98Feb19.114117cst.26884@gateway.gibson.com> References: <98Feb19.095451cst.26886@gateway.gibson.com> <199802191542.IAA17600@hyper.dimensional.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2ngzmC.A.-rE.CiR70"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3469 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:58:58 -0800 X-UIDL: c2d35cc255b07d8828239972d371be9b This list is an exercise in looping! You get to write a msg and then have it come back to you over and over and over again with some changes in between and if your lucky, you still like what you wrote in the first place! ha ha ha ha !!! big smiles, Corynne At 11:44 AM 2/19/98 -0600, you wrote: >I hope that you loopers realize that this is an attempt at humor........ > > > >>Come to think of it, not everything that is called a loop is in fact a >>loop. Just a linear string of events, whether they are notes, heartbeats, >>or whatever. If it has a beginning and an end then it isn't a loop..... >>Pseudo Loopers Delight? >>Linear Events Delight? >>Just popping more bubbles. >> >> >> >> >>>Yo Pat, >>> >>>Come round to my place and I'll hook you up to a 12-lead EKG... You can see >>>for yourself just how much a heartbeat resembles a loop. It is a little >>>ostinato comprised of five segments that repeat over and over and over, yet >>>are dynamic. It even mirrors your emotional state--it builds up when >>>you're excited, slows down when you're at peace, changes shape when you're >>>sick. >>> >>>And yeah, there is a finite number of beats. Every story--be it a life, or >>>a loop--has a beginning and an ending. >>> >>>If I could make loops like that, I'd be God. A heartbeat, indeed, is a >>>loop. :-) >>> >>>Scott >>>---------- >>>> From: Pat Murphy >>>> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>>> Subject: Re: looping and "normal music" >>>> Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 06:52 >>>> >>>> >A heart beat is a loop... >>>> >>>> >>>> Not really.... >>>> It has a starting point and ending point and when everything is said and >>>> done, there will be a finite number of beats... >>>> >>>> Oh well,as poetic as it is, I'm sorry to be the one that has to pop the >>>> bubble ;) >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From ???@??? Fri Feb 20 01:45:36 1998 >From kflint Thu Feb 19 21:58:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y5lTR-0006Z2-00; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:58:13 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970726224054.0079caf0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:40:54 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: So Long Loopers In-Reply-To: <98Feb19.150233cst.26881@gateway.gibson.com> References: <105a3125.34ec9517@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RQz_KB.A.PrE.9hR70"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3468 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:58:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 85c29ca06959ff58bf3611b828f844c6 I haven't been on very long, it's been nice, see you later... smiles, Corynne At 03:05 PM 2/19/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hey Y'all- > >It appears my tenure with the Oberheim division has come to an end. I will >be leaving the division effective noon Friday. Just wanted to give my >sincere thanks to everyone on the list that I have met and communicated >with, as well as those patient lurkers who put up with my feeble attempts >at humor. It's been fun,and I am glad to have met all of you...we may meet >again someday, you never can tell. > >Tom "Where you goin' with that UB40 in your hand" Spaulding > >p.s. Kim, please Unscribe ;) > > > From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 19:15:23 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 27 17:38:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsdpc-000511-00; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 17:38:36 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 17:30:29 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: some new stuff on the web Resent-Message-ID: <"JGExvB.A.vbE.8k-2z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/58 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 17:38:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 3522ffc95b9c8207eb582877dd8dec5b Hey loop surfers- I just added some new stuff to the web site. Michael Peters has been steadily improving upon the Looper profile pages, and it's looking great. It's now in a more organized format with a cross referencing to everyone's band names. There's a few new names in there as well. Thanks for your help, Michael! see it here: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/profiles/Profiles.html Ed Drake sent me a new version of the JamMan page quite a while ago, that's finally up. It includes a compilation of discussions about the rumored JamDuder upgrade. Thanks, Ed! Jam on here: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/jamman/jamman.html Also, even longer ago Travis Hartnett scanned the entire JamMan manual for us. That is now available on the web site. Thanks Trav! Light a candle, make some tea, sit back and enjoy the subtle details in the jammanual: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/jamman/jammanual/jamman_manual.html And we've got more goodies coming soon, I hope! A search engine should be appearing soon, as well as other little bits and pieces here and there. No word from the big boys yet on whether we can get permission to post the reviews of our favorite loop byproducts that have appeared in major mags, but my fingers are crossed. they're lookin into it..... And as always, Looper's Delight needs your help! The site exists through the voluntary efforts of the loop community. The more people working on it, the better it gets. Contributions are always welcome! Many areas of the web site are quite barren, just waiting for an enthused soul to sponser them. If you've got a good idea, or see an idea talked about on the list, jump right in and take it on. We'll all appreciate it! thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 22:56:08 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 27 20:32:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsgXb-0004ok-00; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:32:11 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:29:50 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Ambient? Resent-Message-ID: <"Dy3BrC.A.MVE.fIB3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/59 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:32:11 -0700 X-UIDL: b2864f9150a4cd33ddc514685ab2a9d0 Olivier Malhomme: >Matthias, you said we all play ambient? Nono! I was just teasing Kim... :-) >Well, would you call what I do "ambient"? (well, i'm looking for a name >for it for so long a time...) Probably not all, but certainly some bits... How about my sound? I recently called it "folk influenced" here on the list, which might be completely wrong. Could be "very soft rock", too. Basically I thought that my (or even all) music devided into 4 main motives (I might be repeating myself): 1- Concentration: Constant, centered, meditative, mantric, no emotions 2- Dance: movement, atraction, body, lightness. 3- Viagem (= journey): Stimulating imagination, unusual experiences, film music, happenings... 4- Louvacao (=chanting?): Praise Nature, God, yourself, whatever you feel thankfull to. (often the finale of a apresentation) More points anyone? Now "ambient" is none of this, really, or some total integration? Or the negation of any aim? Or a different view of the circumstances to pass the same kind of main motives? Should I add point 5- Just be sound: research of musical language, mind thrilling compositions... I felt familiar with the "ambient" style because I was allways looking for different places to play and kept claiming that my music adapts to the ambient and is helpfull as a background for many things... but this does not say much about the sound, rather about its aim. So? Oliver again: >Must we all be held by some magical "ambient hand" when working with >loops? Yes, its the Great Ambient that plays through you :-) Matthias From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 22:56:11 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 27 22:16:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsiAa-00021c-00; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:16:32 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:11:14 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ambient? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"E8dsAC.A.-wB.6qC3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/61 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:16:32 -0700 X-UIDL: aad218f1e53c856275b6407e3718be52 Two cents on the ongoing "tyranny of ambient" thread... People have wondered why so many assumptions tend to be made about "loop-based" music being equated with "ambient" music, and why there seem to be so many Big Three-wielding guitar players on this list. I know that Kim has expressed a desire to lure some people from the DJ/Electronica side of things into the list discussions, which as far as I know have unfortunately gone largely unrealized (unless there are some techno heads lurking out there). There are a few things to consider here. For one thing, we generally refer to what we're doing as "loop-based musi,c" given that most of us use some sort of real-time looping based around a delay unit or a Big Three item. However, most DJs or techno artists aren't going to think of what they do as "loop-based" -- they're going to use one of the dozens of sub-genre monikers already floating around the atmosphere of that scene. Look at it this way -- a metal guitar player isn't going to describe his music as "amplified guitar-based music," he's going to call it metal. A blues musician will call his music blues, rather than "folk-derived African-American guitar music." Likewise, a techno artist won't call his music "loop-based," because the loop aspect goes without saying (just as the guitaristic aspect in the aforementioned examples does). Besides, which *sounds* better: "timeshifted, sample-based cut-and-paste music" or "jungle"? So a forum for "loop-based music" might well seem a strange place for a musician for whom looping is an almost unconscious and pre-ordained means of making music. There's also a fundamental difference between the way that most of us are using the idea of looping, versus how most sample-based "music with looping" is made. Basically, with most electronic loop-based music, you're dealing with someone sampling *somebody else's* music, which was *already made*, and then editing the sample in step-time via a computer. Most of this list seems more based around the "classical loop" approach, which traces its roots back to reel-to-reel tape loop systems, which as far as performance applications are concerned basically involves creating (or, to use an old-fashioned term, *playing*) the music at the same moment that it's being looped, and doing any editing or re-compiling in real time. It's a very different approach, which may explain why a lot of elecronica artists might not feel like they have a lot in common with us. And if you look at the history of this sort of looping, you don't have the precursors of MIDI-driven, sequence-and-sample music. You have Terry Riley, Steve Riech, Brian Eno, the infamous Robert "he-who-must-be-moved-beyond" Fripp, and others. And if you look at the music that's most widely and commonly associated with this sort of technology/technique, it's usually music of an abstract, rubato, repetitious nature. In a word, "ambient." This makes a lot of sense, too, because if your looping is based around a digital delay (let alone a loop of tape drawn across two reel-to-reel machines), you're not going to be able to do a whole lot in the way of rhythmically precise, real-time-editable, syncable work. You're basically working within the confines of your delay unit length, or the length of your tape loop. It's only within the last few years that devices like the Big Three have emerged, which have real potential to break out of these parameters and into the realms previously available only to studio-based, step-time construction. But even then, it's not necessarily an easy or even desireable transition from the old to the new. I remember once making a post here advocating the cut-and-paste capabilities of the Oberheim; someone replied (and this is a paraphrase), "I didn't get into looping in order to do live cut-and-paste approaches, I got into it to make raga-like, abstract meditative music." Now, I don't percieve any hostility from the poster, and I absolutely don't intend this as any sort of flame towards him or anyone else, but it does speak towards a certain ingrained way of approaching a real-time looping methodology. I recently made a comment to Kim to the effect that I doubted many people used the "delay" mode on the Echoplex, to which he replied that quite a few users prefer it, as it's a lot more akin to more traditional ways of looping that they might have been working with for many years previous. Personally, I feel like using the Echoplex (or the other Big Two) strictly for a classical approach is like using a Power Macintosh strictly for playing Tetris: you can do it, but you're missing out on a lot of untapped possibilities. Of course, I say that after about a year of having worked almost exclusively within the tape-loop style, simply because that's the most immediate way of visualizing the approach... Our essentially frivilous thread on age from about a week ago did point out an interesting subtext; I'd wager that the "typical" real-time loopist, as represented on this list, is a middle-aged, middle-class family man with a background in Fripp, Eno, Torn, Reich, Glass, Riley, and others in that general part of the looping globe -- which is a different continent altogether from the ones populated by Al Jourgensen, Public Enemy, Underworld, Prodigy, Dr. Dre, or anyone whose main instrument is a Technics 1200. Are these continents unaware of each other? Absolutely not. But in music, as in geography, it can take some adjustment to learn how things work in a different part of the world. And that's assuming that people are inclined or able to peek outside their own neighborhood in the first place. Hope I haven't bored or offended anyone with this; no offense or insomnia-inducement intended, I assure you. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 22:56:10 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 27 21:44:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wshfj-0000dd-00; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:44:39 -0700 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.61 Message-ID: <1461@mainstring.win.net> Reply-To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:58:34 Subject: Re: Web page gig listings? From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) Resent-Message-ID: <"OcUPAD.A.BZ.eMC3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/60 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:44:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 68ef3c937cbe66c00555a3e8c494b6b6 The Man Himself wrote: >From: The Man Himself >Hey all -- > >There seems to be quite a bit of live looping going on with the members >of the list. Would somebody be willing to help set up and maintain a >regular page on the main web site to announce upcoming and current >performances? It might be a great way to spread the word, as well as >reminding the regulars here of what's going on. Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts This is a comprehensive and flexible system, and works for concert dates worldwide. Artists can enter their tour and concert dates to the system easily and directly. Concert goers using the system can search by date range, city radius, music genre, etc. A unique aspect of the system is that it will generate an HTML code-fragment for searches that can be invoked from a remote system location (i.e. loopers delight) that will jump out and grab the applicable listings on demand. All that's necessary is to settle upon some under-utilized sub-genre on their system (such as "ambient" or "techno"), and then get Kim to install the clickable HTML fragment on Looper's Delight. Voila-- a worldwide listing system, automatically maintained. Go take a look. Pat Kirtley From ???@??? Mon Jul 28 00:52:44 1997 >From kflint Sun Jul 27 23:48:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsjbs-0005lO-00; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 23:48:48 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 03:47:04 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: RE: Unsettling Ambiences Resent-Message-ID: <"qj1n4D.A.ZRF.YBE3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/62 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 23:48:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 1466e1ca866f3e90e298485baa79995c >1) Be interested yourself. >Even if you're struggling trying to make something happen, the audience >will hang in there with you >if they can tell that you're "into" what you're doing. Since that strong sentence got chopped up, I repeat it. >2) How to get yourself interested? One way I use is to throw myself a curve >such as start building your "springboard loop" in a different key, or with a >noise, or let's say with a different loop length. As per this last one you >might, after explaining to the audience how your Looper devices work, let >someone from the audience come up and initiate loop record/length while you >noodle away, thus capturing a non - planned initial loop that you, now all of >a sudden have to do something with. Also, when one audience member becomes >involved, in effect they all are, on a number of levels. On one level they >are drawn in by becoming part of the performance and on another level they >could be drawn in by way of a competative "let's see if we can stump the >musician" kind of thing. Either way you've got their attention and hopefully >your own. :-). Interesting that you propose the involvement of the public to get interested in your own work. Its the inversion of point one. If the public is not interested you will not get either? With "springboard loop", you propose to leave the sparc with the accident. Thats valid. Could the simple pleasure to hear a quality of sound you cannot get anywhere else - because its yours and because is live - be a sufficiant reason to be interested in your own playing? I sometimes think that some value of my music comes from the fact that I do not play much, and only when and what I really feel like. So I have a lack of perfection and broadness compared to a professional musician, but I maybe saved a very clean and positive relationship to my own music without a problem to "get interested". Matthias From ???@??? Mon Jul 28 00:52:46 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 28 00:12:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsjyP-0006bM-00; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:12:05 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1461@mainstring.win.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:04:39 -0700 To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley), Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Web page gig listings? Resent-Message-ID: <"EGRo5B.A.tCG.7WE3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/63 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:12:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 76f1e77d34cdaf8f4f85d2ca821ae6b9 At 10:58 PM -0700 7/27/97, Pat Kirtley wrote: >Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a >workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is >a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this >purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event >Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts Hey, that's a good idea. We could probably get him to add a category for us, if we wanted to. It would definitely make my life easier. I had visions of some poor looper only getting 4 people at his show because my usual 1 week+ lead time to upload stuff prevented 2 other people from knowing about it....:-) >A unique aspect of the system is that it will generate an HTML >code-fragment for searches that can be invoked from a remote system >location (i.e. loopers delight) that will jump out and grab the applicable >listings on demand. All that's necessary is to settle upon some >under-utilized sub-genre on their system (such as "ambient" or "techno"), >and then get Kim to install the clickable HTML fragment on Looper's >Delight. Voila-- a worldwide listing system, automatically maintained. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ now we're talking! The less you have to rely on me, the better off you'll all be. We could even link it into the profiles pages. Then it could be easy to find out about someone and see where they're playing next. Or in the case of some of us, discover just how infrequently we ever get out... Somebody go ahead and figure all this out, and I'll put it on the website. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Jul 28 09:24:19 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 28 04:46:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsoGH-0006MS-00; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 04:46:49 -0700 X-Sender: illoyd@mail.intrlink.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:43:42 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespace) Subject: Re: Ambient? Resent-Message-ID: <"pJK4EC.A.V2F.1YI3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/64 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 04:46:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 5656caec1e34d741b1d39184e9c832b0 >I know have unfortunately gone largely unrealized (unless there are some >techno heads lurking out there). hmm, well, lurking no more... hi i'm Ian, 24, and i'm a looper. i work in both guitar-based live looping in a "rock" band called Shakespace and also do mostly solo "electronica" (ranging from ambient soundscape stuff to laswell-inspired dub to "jungle") that also relies on many kinds of loops. >item. However, most DJs or techno artists aren't going to think of what >they do as "loop-based" -- they're going to use one of the dozens of not to be difficult, but yeh, i _do_ think of my electronica as loop based, be it an audio loop in a delay unit or a sampler or a midi loop from Vision. this i think springs from my first electronic stuff which centered around the much-vaunted Alesis MMT-8. >music "loop-based," because the loop aspect goes without saying (just as okay, well point taken. :-) >Basically, with most electronic loop-based music, >you're dealing with someone sampling *somebody else's* music, which was >*already made*, and then editing the sample in step-time via a computer. well when you say it like that... no, all kidding aside, thats farily accurate. i do sample some of my own loops though. sometimes, i'll have a loopguitarist friend of mine create textures for me to sample... >It's a very different approach, which may explain why a lot of >elecronica artists might not feel like they have a lot in common with us. i guess i think of myself as an exception. ugh, sorry, i straddle the fence, wear both hats, playing guitar with some looping aspects in the realm of a traditional "rock" band and doing the electronic thing on the side... sorry, can't validate or debunk that point... >...digital delay... >machines), you're not going to be able to do a whole lot in the way of >rhythmically precise, real-time-editable, syncable work. hmm.. my main studio loopers for electronic stuff are a boss DD-3 pedal and a Digitech 4-second "time machine". and with the use of a constant beat, i've found it quite easy not only to lock up the delays to the tempo of a given track, but utilising fx sends and levels and quick cuts, to build intense rhythmic loops within the delay. >I'd wager that the "typical" real-time >loopist, as represented on this list, is a middle-aged, middle-class >family man with a background in Fripp, Eno, Torn, Reich, Glass, Riley oddly, the other guitarist in Shakespace is just that... he got me into fripp and reich. another, younger friend got me into torn. eno and glass i picked up dj-ing "chill-out rooms" at raves in college. >And that's assuming that people are inclined or able to peek outside >their own neighborhood in the first place. well there are few better ways to learn... ugh, need more coffee... anyone else care to throw a hat in this ring? Ian///Shakespace www.intrlink.com/~illoyd From ???@??? Mon Jul 28 09:24:23 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 28 07:29:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsqo6-0004YW-00; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:29:54 -0700 Message-Id: <9707281430.AA01712@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:53:00 -0400 From: "Sellon, Bob" Subject: RE: multi-loop playback To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"4GpOm.A.kEE.YwK3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/65 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:29:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 84e4ece7b493a0bf36846f76622dbac4 Dear Jus, The nearly impending upgrade ROM for the JamMan will provide this functionality. To All: My first formal meeting with Lexicon prez Harvey Schein to discuss JamMan software licensing is scheduled for Wednesday. I'll do a posting of the outcome. Sorry about all the delays. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec ---------- From: Loopers-Delight[SMTP:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 7:19 PM To: Loopers-Delight Subject: multi-loop playback ---------------------------------------------------- My first question is, is there a looper that can output more than one loop at a time? It seems sort of limiting to have only one loop, when two different length loops would sound so much more interesting. It seems sort of expensive to buy two devices. Jus wondering. afn39111@afn.org <*> Why am I such a dork? The Church of Perelandra: http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 B5 (passing beyond the Rim) list: babylon5-request@gatekey.com From ???@??? Mon Jul 28 21:57:54 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 28 11:32:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wsuZA-00059n-00; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:30:44 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:17:19 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Web page gig listings? Resent-Message-ID: <"2Kvzg.A.z7D.wIO3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:30:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 69e07acc36d2f8b0f19bdf39515aa37c >At 10:58 PM -0700 7/27/97, Pat Kirtley wrote: >>Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a >>workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is >>a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this >>purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event >>Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts > >Hey, that's a good idea. We could probably get him to add a category for >us, if we wanted to. It would definitely make my life easier. Uh, I liked that one: So we would call that category "Loop music" instead of "ambient" or something existent where we cannot agree too? :-) Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jul 29 02:16:13 1997 >From kflint Mon Jul 28 22:43:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wt53u-0003JN-00; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:43:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 01:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707290537.BAA20102@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: independent Loop-ish release... Ambient? Resent-Message-ID: <"sflbFD.A.p3C.5IY3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:43:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 59ad9dae4bf5a3878f0d5550c783de35 he- hel- hell- hello all.. let's get looped .... just a quick note - if anyone wants to support our independent central NJ efforts here... my improvising duo JFK'S LSD UFO now has a release to offer the world... it's called "ASSASSINATION HALLUCINATION" 80 mins+ on a CrO2 cassette, real time duped... $8.00 postage incl (for continental USA addresses) Just drop me a line if you're interested in ordering one, we can do credit card orders at 908-747-6448 M-F 10am - 8pm ET, Sat 10am-6pm, Sun 10am-5pm or send a money order to Jfk's Lsd Ufo * PO Box 138 * Red Bank NJ * 07701 what's it like ?? well... here's a coupla quotes - "..it's too weird for us..." -John, booking dude at the Knitting Factory, NYC "...was I tripping ? I really like this..." -Otis, booking dude at the Wetlands, NYC "...you guys are cool..that's really out there, wacked stuff..." -Buckethead, when we opened for him a few months back.(summer 97) we're a 100% live duo, primarily drumset and guitar, but we both trigger synths thru Kat, pads, and Guitar synth.. Lots of digital delay loops, samples, world percussion, and a little bit of strange political information. Our topics range from (of course) Ufos and crop circles to gulf war syndrome, the heaven's gate cult, or vintage vox tremolo units. influences include (but are not limited to) - Eno, tangerine dream, steve reich, derek bailey, crimson, polytown/torn, steve hillage, metheny, vernon reid, john zorn, zappa, nana vasconcelos, fripp, andy summers, all indonesia gamelan music, the spirit of those on this list, etc etc etc we also create sequences on the spot, but use absolutely no pre-recorded material. This baffles most audience members, but no-one on this list will really be fazed from a tech point of view, But i think you'll really dig it. E-mail me if interested - those of you with a release(s) - get in touch regarding trade?? thanx for reading this far.... From ???@??? Tue Jul 29 23:21:47 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 29 13:55:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtJJ4-0004up-00; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:55:46 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:50:39 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Resent-Message-ID: <"nBgMb.A.GKE.Uel3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/68 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:55:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 08a1a46e4231862dc541d935a89331b4 Sorry, thats an old one I accidentally did not send to the list (does this happen to you, that sometimes doing "reply" it replies to the original sender and not to the list?) Anton: >Busses 1 & 2 feed the greenbacks (all guitar sounds and loops) and >busses 3 & 4 feed PA cabinets (other instruments and effects). We use >rackmount tube guitar amplifiers for the greenbacks and highpower solid >state amps for the PA. With more busses, and loopers (we use 5) the >individual intruments and loopers can be placed spatially/speaker. Last time I was in the cinema, I felt like trying to have the clean signal on one central speaker and reverb on two periferial cabinets (maybe even on the ceiling?). I did not do it yet, because I do not have the cabinet and amp ready. Anyone tried this? Does it sound really different from stereo? Matthias From ???@??? Tue Jul 29 23:21:48 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 29 14:05:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtJSI-0005jb-00; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:05:18 -0700 X-ROUTED: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:05:48 0000 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Frank Bas Message-ID: <33DE59FD.214@dutch.nl> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:00:46 +0200 From: Frank Bas X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 [nl] (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Frippertronics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3uLSlB.A.5DF.qol3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:05:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 9fda602cbbc6d02601399ec3f041fdce >From what I understand the trick that Fripp did with two Revoxes doesn't differ all that much from what a tape-loop echo machine does. Or am I overlooking something? I have an Echolette on the shelf (one with tubes and an electronic eye) which I hope to restore to working order some day and I would like to use to do some of the weird stuff Fripp used to do. Could you give your comments on that? Thanks! Frank Bas. From ???@??? Sun Feb 22 16:45:56 1998 >From kflint Sun Feb 22 14:36:16 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y6k0M-0000AC-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:36:14 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970729151617.007aeb70@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:16:17 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: bending necks In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980221055152.00d7cf4c@pop.chromatic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fNb4TD.A.tLH._eK80"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3539 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:36:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 8c64265991f71c20e81258b624236cef Very cute msg! ha ha ha ... smiles, Corynne At 09:51 PM 2/20/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 12:02 AM 2/21/98 EST, Marzzz@aol.com wrote: >> >>In a message dated 2/19/98 11:18:55 AM, Jonathon wrote: >> >>>I just realized that this must be absolutely the only list where >>>one can find people debating the merits of bending a Steinberger >>>or Klein neck. Not that I've any idea of the significance of such >>>debate... >>> >>>Personally, I would never bend the neck on my Klein. It's got no >>>truss rod and just a few screws keeping it in place. >> >>Not to mention that this list seems to be the single greatest aggregation of >>Klein Electric Guitar owners in the universe! What is it with Kleins and >>Looping anyway? Is it all DT's fault? > >nah, probably has a lot more to do with musicians who aren't too tied down >by traditions and willing to try new things. Seems that with Kleins the >funny look of it scares a lot of folks off. ("ah, wat da hell is that there, >ma? Don' look nuttin' lahk my tele.") If you can get past that and actually >play one, it takes about 3 seconds to decide you need to own one....In fact, >I don't even think the decision is conscious. Your body gets so happy that >it can finally play an instrument that isn't causing injuries that it just >orders it for you. I'm still not sure what happened. The guitar was in my >hands, I played a minor9 chord, my mouth said something like "gotta have >it," Lorenzo held up an order form and a pen, my hands grabbed it and filled >it out. I was merely a witness, with no control over my limbs. I was then >filled with an overwhelming feeling, no an order really, that I must come up >with several thousand dollars. It was somehow implicit that resisting that >order would have very grave consequences....very weird actually.... > > >>Has anyone tried jacking up their car with their Steinberger GL? > >No, but old peavey amp heads make good jack stands. Better than cinder >blocks! Real cinder blocks get better tone, though. > >kim >________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > > > From ???@??? Sun Feb 22 16:46:02 1998 >From kflint Sun Feb 22 15:20:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y6kh5-0003Ce-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:20:23 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970729161711.007ac100@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:17:11 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Origins... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RBwBE.A.NrC.DIL80"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3540 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:20:23 -0800 X-UIDL: d1d72d5e89395a6e4c5f67a38c68256c I'd like to address something that is hopefully near and dear to all our hearts, MUSIC! I was fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to have met one other of us on this list. During the time we talked, this person asked me a question which I'd like to present to the rest of the list... I was asked: How do you begin your loop pieces? This was meant as a musical question, like what musical ideas do you use in initial stages of your loops... I thought this was an interesting question. Anyway, since I'm the bringer of the question, I'll be the first to answer it by giving the answer I gave then... There are two ways I tend to gravitate to in starting my loop pieces. There are actually infinate variations, but I seem to be drawn to these two styles as they seem to have some significance for me... Sometimes I may take a particular mode which may manifest some aspect or feeling about my current environment and choose notes from it at "random". The other way I like is to improvise a short motief ( perhaps less than ten notes) and layer this with some varying modal ideas. both of these ways can quickly develop into a very dense and hopefully, emotionally meaningful composition. As a piece goes on, I tend to change the musical environment and help bring it through various stages and also play off of it letting it bring me through various stages as well. It's great fun and can produce some really amazing emotions and textures... Anyway, I hope that you, will consider this question and have some fun with it... smiles, Corynne From ???@??? Tue Jul 29 23:22:31 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 29 21:34:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtQT3-0005s3-00; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:34:33 -0700 Message-Id: Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 00:33:23 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Phil Diem To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"nWvfdB.A.HKF.pNs3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/71 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:34:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 750d288886c1549b7c7f4b57b8a225ca Matthias Grob wrote: >Last time I was in the cinema, I felt like trying to have the clean signal >on one central speaker and reverb on two periferial cabinets (maybe even on >the ceiling?). I did not do it yet, because I do not have the cabinet and >amp ready. >Anyone tried this? >Does it sound really different from stereo? >Matthias Yes, I have tried this and in my opinion it does sound different than stereo. I've taken it one step further by adding a third cabinet which is wired across the two positive speaker terminals on my stereo power amp. This results in the third speaker being out of phase (?) with the left and right cabinets which gives it it's own voice. Some very interesting stuff comes out of this third cabinet on occasion. I've used this set up for years on both my rig and my stereo system and I haven't fried anything yet. Maybe I'm just lucky? Actually, I read about this idea in Popular Mechanics or something back (again, yup i'm over 25) in the 60's as a way to make a regular stereo quadraphonic. In the article they had the forth speaker wired between the negative leads from right and left and the negative terminal on the amp. I wasn't so impressed with this part, couldn't hear any difference in the voice of the fourth speaker. So my rig's set up like this: clean signal into amp @ center; line out/effects send from amp(s) to mixer; mixer output to loopers (jamman and digitech time machine); loopers outputs to 2nd mixer w/ vortex and digitech studio twin on effects loops; mixer output to stereo power amp w/ speakers @ right, left and third speaker @ back of room or hall. Both the vortex and the studio twin essentially have the ability to transform the mono signal from the loopers into stereo so I have four seperate/different sound sources...surround sound. Phil From ???@??? Tue Jul 29 23:22:30 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 29 21:34:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtQSv-0005rH-00; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:34:25 -0700 Message-Id: Subject: Re: Frippertronics Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 00:33:27 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Phil Diem To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"BAzmB.A.ZKF.rNs3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/72 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:34:25 -0700 X-UIDL: c5a969702975b7838ffdd2b1fcae7532 Frank Bas wrote: >From what I understand the trick that Fripp did with two Revoxes doesn't >differ all that much from what a tape-loop echo machine does. Or am I >overlooking something? I have an Echolette on the shelf (one with tubes >and an electronic eye) which I hope to restore to working order some day >and I would like to use to do some of the weird stuff Fripp used to do. >Could you give your comments on that? >Thanks! Frank Bas. I used one of those (Klempt Echolette, mfg in W. Germany) back in the proverbial "good old days" (1960's). I was never able to do loops - by my definition - with it and relied on 1/2 track reel to reel machines for that. However, I did use it for reverb, delay, and as a preamp. It produced outstanding overdrive and crunch for that time period and the "green eye" was very cool. Phil From ???@??? Sun Feb 22 17:49:19 1998 >From kflint Sun Feb 22 17:01:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y6mGl-0004bx-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:01:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970729174924.0079fdb0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:49:24 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: Origins... In-Reply-To: <199802230001.RAA08728@hyper.dimensional.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"52zGGC.A.p8D.UmM80"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3545 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:01:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 1e7212327eceb1e20f24bb9efeb697f1 Of course I was fortunate to meet ya silly! love, Corynne At 04:53 PM 2/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >Corynne writes: > >> I was fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to have met one other >of >> us on this list. During the time we talked, this person asked me a >> question which I'd like to present to the rest of the list... I was >asked: >> >> How do you begin your loop pieces? > >Since I didn't ask you this Corynne I've gotta assume two things: > >A. you've met at least two people on this list, and >B. that you aren't particularly fortunate to have met me. > >Anyhow... here's how I begin my loop pieces: > >1. Deep breath and hold it. >2. Stomp "Record" button. >3. Realize I haven't thought out what I want to play. >3a. Get a bit wild-eyed. >4. Fumble a few noises out of the instrument. >5. Swear. >6. Hit "End" button. > >Then I spend a few minutes pulling my head out of you-know-where and decide >if I'm going to loop a little phrase like an ostinato, or if I'm gonna just >start smearing freaky noises all over the place, layering it up like some >demented gamelan, and make myself a loop (3 layers or more = "sludgescape." > 2 layers or less = "soundpaper.") Having decided that, I start playing >the ostinato or start making freaky noises and when the timing and phrasing >and such is as good as it's gonna get, I click the "record" button and the >"end" button at the appropriate places. > >Then I make a quality control decision: if I think I can work with it I >start noodling over the top until I've got something I can live with, at >which point I layer it on. If I can't work with it, I'll try one or all of >the following loop-salvaging maneuvers: > >Slow the loop to half speed. >Reverse the loop. >Run the loop through the intelligent harmonizer and a few gallons of audio >syrup via the Digitech Studio 400. >Bury the loop in several layers of innocuous, abstract sound overdubs. >Resample a short (2.8 sec) segment of the loop via the Studio 400 and use >that for the loop while I fix the first one. > >If none of that works, I just kill the loop and start over. > >Sometimes I have grand designs for a loop: for example, I want to play >something scalar with very specific phrasing during the loop, and then I >want to develop a counterpoint and layer it on there such that the notes or >chords in the second layer fall between the notes or chords in the first. >In theory, I would get something that sounds like it was impossible (or at >least heroic) to play. Ordinarily, however, it sounds like a couple of >teenage boys on LSD with cheap electric guitars. > >And sometimes I get lucky. Didn't someone once suggest that musicians >"trust the inexpressible benevolence of the creative impulse?" I forget >who. Hmph. I think it was a guitar player, though. Probably nobody >connected to looping. ;-) > >Scott Bullerwell >tanelorn@dimensional.com >Boulder, Colorado, USA > > > > > From ???@??? Tue Jul 29 23:22:30 1997 >From kflint Tue Jul 29 21:27:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtQMW-0005If-00; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:27:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199707300424.VAA19149@usr03.primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Frippertronics Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:24:23 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9ZS14.A.stE.-Hs3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/70 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:27:48 -0700 X-UIDL: c745775a7e094dee727eba2d17afa983 Frank Bas queried: > >From what I understand the trick that Fripp did with two Revoxes doesn't > differ all that much from what a tape-loop echo machine does. Or am I > overlooking something? I have an Echolette on the shelf (one with tubes > and an electronic eye) which I hope to restore to working order some day > and I would like to use to do some of the weird stuff Fripp used to do. > Could you give your comments on that? Hi Frank! While I might not use a tape setup to do my material, relying instead - and primarily for financial reasons originally - on a Digitech 7.6-sec. 'Time Machine' for my purposes.. But from what I understand about deck-to-deck looping (as opposed to my process, or physical tape loop methods like the Echolette), the differences have to do with the kind of layering that takes place. With the Deck-to-Deck method, there's the looped signal being electronically mixed via linein, the originally-laid sound never really disappearing unless through natural sonic obfuscation, as with dissonance. With the closed-system, single-box style (like mine), there are a finite number of stacks in memory (16 in mine), one for each loop cycle used. It uses a common computing method, FIFO (1st in, 1st out). So when you've laid down 16 layers of a loop, you have to remember while playing that the next cycle round, the first loop laid down just disappears. I suspect that the finite tape loop methods like the Echolette and Echoplex are somewhere in between, in that they're still electronically mixing a direct signal on top of a taped signal; but there's the added aspect of the signal from deck 2 - a signal from tape, not direct - electronically returned and fed to deck 1. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but that's what the difference sounds like to me. Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From ???@??? Wed Jul 30 09:40:07 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 30 09:37:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtbkd-0005HE-00; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:37:27 -0700 X-From_:nyfac2@nyfac.com Wed Jul 30 09:37:25 1997 Received: from mail2.panix.com [198.7.0.33] by ferret with smtp (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtbkV-0005GS-00; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:37:19 -0700 Received: from nyfac ([206.133.60.162]) by mail2.panix.com (8.8.5/8.7.1/PanixM1.0) with SMTP id MAA28958 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33DF78D3.41C6@nyfac.com> Old-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:24:35 -0400 From: nyfac Organization: New York Film & Animation Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SGoldC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Gear plug: Tascam 564 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:37:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 87370959137292a871169096fcaf948e What is the bandwidth on MDs? I was under the impression that they were about the same as cassette tape. Just my two cents, but I am always a little mystified at a lot of the choices people make when buying home studio gear. I have done a lot of recording on both analog and digital, so I feel that I can make a fair assesment of the limitations of both, both as just documenting a performance/interview/film field sound/whatever, as well as using both to edit. I still to this day am surprised when anyone buys an ADAT. This format seems to combine the clunky editing of analog with the less than inspiring sound of digital. It always seemed to me that if you want to deal with the hassle of something that isn't non-linear, go analog. These all in one editor/recorder thingies are something else I don't get. We have an Akai DR8 here where I work, and while the editing on there is a little better than on an ADAT, it still really, really makes me want to rip the hair out of my scalp. It is still better than razors and tape (something I'm sure many of us have done) but not much. And, of course, it sounds like digital. I own a Digi Session8 and I love it. The A/Ds are not so hot, but when I run my mikes thru my DAT, out thru its digital outs, thru the S8's digi ins, it doesn't sound that bad. The great thing is that the editing is very intuitive. From ???@??? Wed Jul 30 22:29:08 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 30 10:13:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtcJs-0000es-00; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:13:52 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:05:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@grob.org (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Resent-Message-ID: <"X41thC.A.FMH.bR33z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/73 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:13:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 1d5eb2b6119624f5790b5757443445f4 I asked: >>Last time I was in the cinema, I felt like trying to have the clean signal >>on one central speaker and reverb on two periferial cabinets >>Anyone tried this? Phil did: >Yes, I have tried this and in my opinion it does sound different than >stereo. I've taken it one step further by adding a third cabinet which is >wired across the two positive speaker terminals on my stereo power amp. Ah... this ends up giving you the difference between the two channels. Since I assume that the reverb processor does not send any signal equally to both cannels, but different delays, it might be the same as the sum in terms of volume, but with a different characteristic due to the changed phase. >Some very interesting stuff comes out of this third cabinet on occasion. Lexicon and others create multichannel reverbs, but only for home, and rather expensive, but that would probably the consequent way to go... ... and sounds familiar with "ambient", doesnt it? ;-) >... I haven't fried anything yet. Maybe I'm just lucky? No, I don't see any problem... I will try it, too! >So my rig's set up like this: clean signal into amp @ center; line >out/effects send from amp(s) to mixer; mixer output to loopers (jamman >and digitech time machine); loopers outputs to 2nd mixer w/ vortex and >digitech studio twin on effects loops; mixer output to stereo power amp >w/ speakers @ right, left and third speaker @ back of room or hall. Oh, I see... so you probably never have only reverb on the stereo set, because all of the loops run on it, too, right? But on the third speaker, you might get only reverb if you pan the loops to center, is that how you use it? Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Wed Jul 30 22:29:37 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 30 19:45:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtlEc-0001JW-00; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:45:02 -0700 Message-Id: Subject: Re: re: Amplifiers for looping Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 22:43:59 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Phil Diem To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZTT9SB.A.K8.Bt_3z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/76 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:45:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 3025e578499dddb31ac40a1a7564808f Matthias wrote: >Oh, I see... so you probably never have only reverb on the stereo set, >because all of the loops run on it, too, right? >But on the third speaker, you might get only reverb if you pan the loops to >center, is that how you use it? Actually, somewhat ashamed to admit that I'm not ALWAYS looping :-). I do play straight (no looping) some of the time and the digitech studio twin, which is on one of the mixers effect loops, has many stereo reverbs as well as all the other usual stuff - chorus, flanger, detune ect. I don't like or use this other stuff but I do use the reverbs and the stereo ping pong delay (way cool and the only reason I purchased it) both with and without looping and/or vortex. It really depends on what mood I'm in at the time. But in any case the answer is still yes. I do play with a clean signal in the guitar amp (@ center) and only reverb in the stereo +1 field. As for what eminates from the +1 cabinet, I've never really tried to engineer this, I'm more of an observer. Some (probably irrelevant) background/bio info. I, like others on this list, am WELL past 25. My primary instrument/interest is acoustic electric guitar. I also play and loop a fender rhodes; electric bass; various drums and percussion instruments, harmonicas, and recently a C melody sax, all of which are mic'd and run through yet another mixer. I played in various bands around the midwest and experimented a lot (and performed occasionly) with multiple 1/2 track tape machines back in the 60's and early 70's. Then I got married, had some kids, got a REAL JOB and quit playing for 20 years. I started playing again when my kids got interested in music. My wife says it's mid life crisis but I don't care because I'm really, really having FUN! This new digital stuff (jammen, plex's, vortex, ect) is way easier to use, much more adaptable, and so compact! Yah, there's a trade off, but not much doubt in my mind that it's more than a fair trade. Time to go have fun! Phil From ???@??? Wed Jul 30 22:29:32 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 30 16:32:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtiEX-0004eY-00; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:32:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:24:36 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ambient? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"LF-3cD.A.2AE.9383z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/74 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:32:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 21ad1f0d4a154878685feac5c0dfa9f4 On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, Ian///Shakespace wrote: > >...digital delay... > >machines), you're not going to be able to do a whole lot in the way of > >rhythmically precise, real-time-editable, syncable work. > > hmm.. my main studio loopers for electronic stuff are a boss DD-3 pedal and > a Digitech 4-second "time machine". and with the use of a constant beat, > i've found it quite easy not only to lock up the delays to the tempo of a > given track, but utilising fx sends and levels and quick cuts, to build > intense rhythmic loops within the delay. I didn't mean to suggest that you can't make rhythmic loops with a delay or tape loop (though I can see where that might have been the implication). What I mean is that once you set up the basic loop length in a classical system, you're basically trapped within that. Your loop is going to remain within the length of your delay time or tape loop, which is a fairly insular world insofar as trying to sync up to an external rhythmic source. Even if you dial up a delay time that matches a sequencer or drum machine, if you repeat it for very long you're almost certainly going to experience drift over time unless it's MIDI-locked. And forget about changing the length of the loop after it's been extablished, copying/editing the length and content, etc. That's basically what I was referring to. Excellent points, though. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Jul 30 22:29:33 1997 >From kflint Wed Jul 30 17:25:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtj3f-0000Kt-00; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:25:35 -0700 X-Sender: illoyd@mail.intrlink.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:15:00 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespace) Subject: Re: Ambient? Resent-Message-ID: <"GEw76C.A.wD.2q93z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/75 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:25:35 -0700 X-UIDL: afdfbf1858cf05691a5a445d26194562 >I didn't mean to suggest that you can't make rhythmic loops with a delay >or tape loop (though I can see where that might have been the >implication). What I mean is that once you set up the basic loop length >in a classical system, you're basically trapped within that. okay sorry i see what you mean and yeah, thats the problem. ah well... as for the thing with drift... if you're playing to a sequencer or drum machine and you set your delay lengths with, for instance, a drum track and get your taps all hitting where you want them and dial it up just to the flanging point on the drums, then as long as your guitar playing in marginally precise the drift won't be noticable. i've done things like this with a moog rogue on autotrigger and set the delay with that and ran guitar througgh and for 45 minutes you'de never have known there wasn't sopme kinda magical sync track... of course if you gotta rely on human persussive sources, wel your guess is as good as mine... russian dragon perhaps? Ian///Shakespace www.intrlink.com/~illoyd From ???@??? Mon Jun 30 22:57:04 1997 >From kflint Mon Jun 30 21:50:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #2) id 0wiutT-0001fA-00; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:50:23 -0700 Message-ID: <33E01AD5.2A5D@dmans.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:55:49 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Help - I want your non-loop knowledge References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f2GTyD.A.4TB.SvIuz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/563 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:50:23 -0700 X-UIDL: ce6a2106b183da6c10a4ec557f0dee2c Seems this group has a diverse range of technical knowledge. Well I'm having a slight problem my amp and thought I'd mine that vein. I hope someone can give me a clue. My Crate VC3112 all tube amp (probably not the rectifier) resonates with certain bass notes, making a raspy, rattling kind of noise. The noise comes through the speaker and is not a mechanical phenomenon (handle rattle, etc.) The $64,000 question is this: is this the result of a microphonic tube? If so, how do I tell which one. There are 4 12AX7's and 4 EL84's and none of them seem to be glowing in a funny way. Any other ideas as to the cause? Thanks for your help. Motley From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 02:18:20 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 31 00:23:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtpaT-0007S1-00; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:23:53 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop2.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <1461@mainstring.win.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:16:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Web page gig listings? Resent-Message-ID: <"mHAZTB.A.h2G.szD4z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/77 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:23:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 4c3a9db3e380b4765686c6bc64e8bc77 >At 10:58 PM -0700 7/27/97, Pat Kirtley wrote: >>Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a >>workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is >>a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this >>purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event >>Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts > >We could even link it into the profiles pages. Then it could be easy to >find out about someone and see where they're playing next. Or in the case >of some of us, discover just how infrequently we ever get out... > >Somebody go ahead and figure all this out, and I'll put it on the website. > >kim I want to keep this idea alive, because it's a pretty good one. If you are on the profiles page and would like a button to automatically find your upcoming gigs on this nifty database, do this: Go to the calandar site (http://www.calendar.com/concerts) and search for yourself. The database will return any listings along with an html code fragment for initiating that search from another site. Copy the html, and send it to Michael Peters for inclusion on the profiles page. (MPeters@compuserve.com) Be very nice to Michael, because we are asking him to do a whole buncha work. :-) Then, make sure to update the database with your upcoming shows. Also, if anyone can think of a way to do a more generic search for loop shows, figure out the html fragment and send it to me. Remember that we don't all play ambient. ;-) (maybe a search for some combination of likely genres?) Well, I just sent them mail asking that they add a "Looping" category, maybe it'll turn out to be easy. thanks! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Feb 24 00:43:09 1998 >From kflint Tue Feb 24 00:32:47 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7FnB-0006hs-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:32:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19970731013219.007a2bb0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: thefates@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:32:19 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Goddess Subject: Re: boomerang phrase sampler In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19980224001337.332f7fee@pop.usaor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MmoMgD.A.UFG.iUo80"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3599 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:32:45 -0800 X-UIDL: d2eef744b92af81628c172377ea3d2a7 It really depends on how picky you may or may not be... They're sound quality may be something you find to be lacking in some cases but it's certainly quite usable. There is also a problem I've noticed with a pop which occors where the start and end points of loops converge however, this may have been taken care of since I last took one home to play with as there was supposed to have been a software upgrade to deal with this around the beginning of this year... You're really best off to go and listen well to one before you buy it as you are the best judge. I've not heard of any technical issues people have had with them, at least those from our store... Good luck and good listening! smiles, Corynne At 07:13 PM 2/23/98 -0500, you wrote: >hello everyone, > >i am new to the list so i am sorry if this has already been discussed. i >have been thinking about purchasing a boomerang for sometime now. i have >heard only good things about them. i was wondering if there is anything >that i should be warned about before making my purchase. > >thank you, > >michael > > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 09:54:53 1997 >From kflint Thu Jul 31 06:00:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0wtuqB-0003H2-00; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 06:00:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:56:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Ambient again Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tGj97B.A.a2C.QuI4z"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/78 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 06:00:27 -0700 X-UIDL: da180348f0084357e43dfb13e1d0fdd0 Well, yes maybe I was a little unclear. I'm not too satisfied with the word ambient because it means to me something when it's a deliberate process, ie Music for airports.... But it seems to me that it conveys the idea of a kind of music which does not require any participation from the listener, just a passive state like when you're exposed to the whatever fills noise in your usual super market, an idea I don't like that much. So I'm more for thinking that this word is a kind of negation (to quote Matthias, at least one his propositions) of evryone (more or less) aim, to put as much as we are able in our music (if I'm not wrong) hence my reaction to the word. To you matthias I would have a soft spot for some word containing a meditative feel as well as a sense of movement, and I would add another you did not mention: it is sometimes dense. What word would work for all this? I confess I'm clueless. Andre raises clearly some interesting points (lots of!), that move us (I think) to another point, which is really interesting: Tons of people/music use loops, even if not generated with one of the big three, as you call them. There are loops almost in all kind of music. As we refer to the use of them, we choose a slightly different way of taking the idea/process/ and then music. You are right, we could have here DJs, techno freaks.... And it is not the case. Why? Do we because of the way we use our toys (or the toys we'd like to use, which alone can set a way of working and influence you, even if you don't have the toy) have in common a kind of process (I'll stop tuo use "process" all the time quite soon), let alone a kind of music, whith certainly a hell of a lot of differences between us all, but retaining a kind of "we belong to a big family" feel? (whhoops this sentence was too long for me) I got a headache Olivier Malhomme