Re: Bowing Stick - practice session clip shared OT

["Mark Showalter" <folkstone57@operamail.com>]

> > I think you're grasping at something here but it's lost in the 
> > way you are trying to communicate it.
> 
> There's been tradition going for 500 years or so of stringed 
> instruments being used to play music with two
> of more melodic lines. My original point was merely to remind of this.

Ok, although I would say that stringed instruments playing multiple lines 
goes back much farther than 500 years.

> Per points out that with two hands it's possible to
> play 2 independent music statements.
> 
> So I'm saying that it's possible to accomplish that
> same split in terms of the music , but without having to assign 
> different parts of the body to different tasks.

Now I understand this part as in reference to playing a Stick.
 
> > In the Bourree there is still a melody in the upper voice with a bass 
>line
> > to accompany it.
> 
> To me the bassline sounds like a melody.
I agree that you might hear a bassline as having melodic elements, but is 
it a melody? In my opinion, it dosen't function as a melody so it isn't 
intended to be one.

> Maybe that's because I play that piece myself.
Granted, but again, it's hard to see a baseline functioning as a melody. 
As the great master himself once said, " If you can't whistle it when you 
leave, it's not a melody. "

> Isn't a bass-line a musical statement?
Statement, yes, melody........?


> > Perception doesn't really have anything to do with it.
> 
> If you listened to just the bass line in the Bouree you'd
> hear it as a melody. (and it even has some nice twiddles in it).
> 
> That would be perceptual shift.
> 
> Try it, it's fun.

Having listened to that piece on many ocassions, I have never heard the 
bassline as a melody. Thjis would not require a perceptual change, it 
would require a melody there to be heard.
Compare to say the Bach Gmaj fugue with the opening 
statement/subject/melody started in the bass on the pedals, now that is a 
melody.


> > If you are intending to get across two melodies,
> > a Fugue or Invention would be a much better choice since the 
> > listener can discern two melodies ( in the case of a fugue, 
> > subjects ) at once.
> 
> Actually a within a fugue there is likely to be four simultaneous parts,

A simple fugue might be that, although Bach had written fugues with up to 
14 subjects, if you mean "parts" to be subjects. If you just mean 'parts", 
then no, a fugue would start out with a statement of the subject, usually 
followed by the introduction of a counter-subject, a re-statement of the 
subject & on from there to any number of "parts" sounding at once.

> ...but the terms 'subject' (and 'countersubject') don't refer to 
> that. 
Sorry, but I don't know what "that" you are referring to. I think I lost 
what we were discussing at this point.

In a fugue a 'subject' is a theme which may appear in a number
> of the parts. You're right though, the two part invention might be 
> a clearer example.

> > Still not sure what the overall point is though.
> 
> Per's was that the Stick naturally helps the player
> to play 2 independent lines, and that this was for him
> a big advantage of moving from guitar to stick.
> I was commenting that the guitar has historically been a
> multi-part instrument, designed to play arrangements of music that 
> would equally suit an ensemble.

Understand this part & yes, I completely agree. The guitar was in a long 
line of instruments that allowed a single played to play some very 
complicated arrangements.
 
> I hope I've explained,  ...what point are you trying to make?
Yes, Andy, this point is clear & I certainly agree with it.



Mark Showalter
Minden Jot!

myspace.com/folkstone57
http://www.last.fm/music/Mark+Showalter
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