Re: delay tricks & Indian classical music

[Chris Chovit <cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov>]

>Not to me, I thought it was really interesting. I like your approach of
>representing a musical idea as a particular symbolic/algorithmic approach,
>extending the algorithm in obvious ways, and reapplying that to the 
>musical
>idea. Allows you to find new things that would have been missed in praxis.

Well put!  I never thought about it like that.  It seems that the need to
communicate can bring about this approach.

>I've started doing similar things with polyrhythms lately. I think of a
>particular beat division I want to work with (fives lately) and another
>beat division to cross it with (five over two, say). I'm not good enough
>rhythmically to play something like 5:2 right off the bat, so I carefully
>figure out all the subdivisions and the locations of each strike. Then I
>practice it slowly and build the tempo as I get the feel. Great way to 
>pass
>time in boring meetings and irritate co-workers!

Here's a method I learned in tabla lessons, which helps me hear and
"internalize" some of these polyrhythms:

I'll use your example -- 5 : 2  --

1. Use your hands to count the 5:  Clap on the 1, then strike your fingers
of one hand , (alternately), on the palm of your other hand to count the 2
through 5.

ie.

COUNT   ACTION
-----------     ------------
1       clap
2       strike right pinky on left palm
3       strike right ring finger on left palm
4       strike right middle finger on left palm
5       strike right index finger on left palm
repeat...etc.

Do this slowly for a bit, at a steady pace, until you don't have to think
about it.

Now the other side of the polyrhythm will be done with your voice:   Choose
a repeating note/word sequence, with one sound per count (of the 5).  For
example, the traditional 5 count tabla note sequence goes:
TA  KAY  TA  KEE  TA.

So, start by speaking these notes at the same time as you count (with your
fingers), ie.

COUNT   ACTION                          SPEAK
-----------     ------------                            -----------
1       clap                            TA
2       strike right pinky on left palm         KAY
3       strike right ring finger on left palm   TA
4       strike right middle finger on left palm KEE
5       strike right index finger on left palm  TA
repeat....etc.

Do this for a while until the finger actions and speaking seem fairly easy.
Now, here's the trick:  Just double the speed of your speaking, while
keeping your fingers at a steady pace.  So, now you have:

COUNT   ACTION                          SPEAK
-----------     ------------                            -----------
1       clap                            TA *
1.5                                     KAY
2       strike right pinky on left palm         TA
2.5                                     KEE
3       strike right ring finger on left palm   TA
3.5                                     TA *
4       strike right middle finger on left palm KAY
4.5                                     TA
5       strike right index finger on left palm  KEE
5.5                                     TA
repeat...etc.

Now, once you are comfortable with this, emphaisize, the first TA of each
5-note sequence (denoted with a *, in the above example).  Emphasize it to
the point where those are the only notes spoken aloud, ie. you are
practically whispering the other notes.  When you are comfortable with
this, then slowly increase your speed -- as fast as you can go so that you
"maintain control".

And Voila!  The relationship between your fingers and your spoken word is 5
: 2.  Try doubling your spoken words again, to get the 5 : 4 relationship.
Obviously, you have to start slow with these, but it really does help
internalize them.  For some reason it is easier for (my) brain to speak and
beat one finger independently, than it is to beat two fingers 
independently.

of course, another great way to get the feel for  these, is to program them
on a sequencer (or use the loopers!!!) and listen to them for extended
periods (even in the background).

>I think I might try combining this with your ideas to make some more
>complex polyrhythmic loops! With the echoplex its pretty easy to get a
>couple of them synced together in cross rhythms, using midi clock and
>different 8ths/beat settings. there are also ways to do it with
>BrotherSync.  I assume you've tried this sort of thing?

Yes, I've done this, but not by using different 8th/beat settings (I hadn't
thought of that..).  I have been tapping a "unit beat" length loop in one
'plex, then using the MULTIPLY function on additional 'plexis to make loops
with various length relationships.  Of course, with this method I have to
perform it.  Using your method, I could come up with polyrhythms that are
too difficult to perform.

- chris

p.s. I will finally be re-integrating my 'plexis into my setup, after
having them sit in Oberheim's customer service dept. for 3 months!


---------------------------------------
Chris Chovit
cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov
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