Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods (longish)

[Eric Cook <ecook@conch.aa.msen.com>]

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote:

> >1)With the loop:
> >
> >  a)If the loop is the same rhythm as the theme/riff (say the guitarist
> >    locks in a loop of the riff, and then moves into a solo), this is
> >    a fairly trivial case -- you can keep playing to the theme as you
> >    have been. varying it as much or as little as you normally would.
>
> I think this is the main case we have been talking about. Do you allways
> easily hear acurately enough to follow? I understood from the other posts
> that this was a problem?

Practically, yes, this can definitely be a problem.  Esp. in live
situations, where the monitoring situation can range from flakey to worse.
I use a small guitar amp, pointed right at me, slaved off the guitarist's
main amp, as a monitor, and this seems to help, both for hearing the
looping and non-looping material.  Plus I can control the volume of what's
blasting at my head, which I also like.

> >    you are pretending that you the theme that you were playing with
>
> Maybe give the "yous" a fix before HTMLizing :-)

Yeah, the whole thing should be proof-read and polished up a bit before
before anything.  I'm sure my tenses are flying back and forth all over
the place as well.  :)


(re: lack of a bass player)
> Thats what I thought all the time, reading your methods.
> But you probably have some bass sound that takes the space?

Yeah, the guitar player uses a Digitech Whammy pedal to "double" the theme
in two octaves, and sometimes loops a generalized low-end groove for good
chunks of the song.


> Someone said that in Reggae and other music, the bass is reference and 
>not
> the drums.

That's true -- would there be anything to add to these tips to generalize
them more, so that they are more appropriate for a variety of genres?

> So simple way is to have the bassplayer start his loop first, defining 
>the
> time. He may record just a few "corner" notes, giving a base for every 
>one,
> but also leaving space to "curve" around.

"curve" and "corner" -- that's a nice way to put it.


> Another thing would be to leave the direction to the drummer and have him
> send out a Beat Sync to the looper (well, all I am saying works with
> ECHOPLEX, I am not sure about others...) to correct the loops of everyone
> so they do not "run away".
> The Sync signal could be the bass drum mic or a separate key you operate
> regularely, I do not know how...maybe even a key under the HH pedal?


I'd like to try this, but none of our looping gear is high-tech enough for
me to trigger it, I don't think.  Does anything besides the Echoplex deal
happily with a beat sync, anyone know?

> Did you never feel like having your own drum loop going, as a base and 
>sync
> reference for the others?

Yeah, I do have pedal envy sometimes. :)
Seriously, I have been trying to incorporate some live drums loops into
the whole sheebang.  Tried baseing some songs on tape loops, but that had
the problem of being a)very inflexable (at least with pedals/samplers, you
can alter the speed or the loop if desired.  With tape, you're stuck.) and
b)damn near inaudible once the whole band got going.

I've did recently get my own 8-second digitech sampler pedal, and a Roland
SPD-11 drum pad, and have been slowly bringing that in at rehearsals.
Haven't had the guts to try it live yet though.  So far, the less
"Realistic" drum sounds seem to be blending in better (the more similar
the sounds are to my kit, the more it just sounds like I'm playing sloppy
if the loop drifts).

Seems like looping non-electronic percussion might be problematic live,
though I'd love to hear from anyone who's done it at all, successful or
not.

> I feel that we need some more infos collected before we close the 
>"Drumming
> with loops" Hint.
> But you did put us right on the way.


Yeah, I in no way intended it to be the "authoritative manual", just a
list of some things that have worked for me.  I'm glad you found it to be 
of some interest.


> Maybe there will be a separate Hint: "Looping with drums" :-)

yeah! Somebody write it -- I'll read it with enthusiasm!

--Eric Cook                 ecook@mail.msen.com
  Gravitar-Guy              http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html