Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)

[illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespace)]

Gonna give Kim a shot at most of this, but a few points I feel I must jump 
on:

>From Part 3:
>The difference is that if it's sampled, you've got a recording of somebody
>else's music.  If it's "sampled in your brain,"  then it's being filtered
>through your own sensibilities.

But the whole idea of (re)contextualising comes from how the sample is used
in another piece of music. Sure 5 guitarists will play "Black Dog" slightly
differently, and 5 techno artists will use the sample from "Black Dog" in
different ways in wildly varying styles, but the guitarist is still just
playing "Black Dog". So in a way, just as the guitarists sensibilities
affect how he plays the guitar riff, a DJ's sensibilities affect how he
uses the sample in a song or dropped into his set.

>If you're actually playing, however, the "editing process" takes place
>automatically -- and it takes place in a manner that no other human on the
>face of the earth can precisely duplicate.

I'd love to see someone, given the same bank of samples and even the same
gear as me try to duplicate what i do in the studio. Easily 75% of what i
do is live, tweaking synth filters and delays, fading bits in and out,
manually triggering samples, guitar work... the "editing process" is just
as live as if i sit down with my guitar and play the same arpeggio over and
over, slightly different each time because my hand cramps up.

>Look at the John Lennon song "Come Together."

Apples and oranges, my friend. Kim was stating that creatively there's no
difference between a sample of him and a sample of someone else, even if
they're both playing the same thing. I understand your point with the
Lennon example, and its a valid point, except it's not. Look who's
recontextualising now... :-0

>What we're talking about is the difference between quoting somebody
>else's idea, as opposed to out-and-out taking that idea and inserting it
>into a different context.

I will have to take this one up at a later date... this is a whole new
thread too...

>No, you're just five years behind the trend of all those rap producers
>who sampled "Atomic Dog" in 10,000 different hip-hop songs.  ;}

See my counter to your Zeppelin example: each of those producers used the
sample in a different way (unless you think all hip-hop sounds the same)
and created an entirely new piece of work from it. Not slighting p-funk,
but they always play it the same.

----
>From Part 4:
>I would go on to say that tape-and-razors looping is the "classical"
>precursor to MIDI-based sequencer editing.

Hmmm... try and remove one note from a sequence and one note from a tape
(and retain the loop length integrity) and then maybe you'll see why i'm
taking issue with this.

>Just look at where the term
>"cut and paste" comes from!

If you must know, the term comes from the graphic design field, and was
cross-polinated to the music world with the first digital editors.

>I agree with the first part of the sentence, though I am unconvinced that
>we are indeed all doing the same thing.

If you're looping your guitar and I'm looping your guitar, we're doing the
same thing. given, we're doing it with different tools, but the fact of the
matter is, we're both using the same technology to varying degrees to the
same ends (making music).

>I've come to the conclusion that if you want to talk about people
>who are truly involved in what's being referred to a "electronica," then
>you're dealing with more than just what sorts of beats and samples
>they're using.  It has to do with a whole lifestyle -- philosophy,
>clothing, social behavior, language, spelling, et al.

Man I really gotta say here that I _hate_ the term electronica and the way
that the media has pigeonholed anythig with a dancey beat and synths as
"electronica". Its too wide ranging I really can't see how anyone can put
the Metalheadz in the same category as Future Sound Of London... But I
digress...

>They can join the ever-growing club. 8-{  But just wait -- they're gonna
>*hate* me once they hear how I've bastardized their music...

The whole point of electronica is accepting what others do and seeing how
people change whats previously been done. Jungle was a prgression, it
didn't just appear one day. Heck, if you would have told me 3 years ago I'd
be working on stuff in the 160bpm range I would've laughed in your face!
But slowly, the electronic music "scene" (and i'm using that broad-based
word very dangerously here) has just expandced and expanded...

>I hope so.  In the meantime, I hope the last four posts or so have been
>of some food for thought.  And as always, no flames intended!

Truly they have, and I hope my (our?) responses too have been... And
obviously we're taking things too seriously if we get all bent out of shape
here.

Ugh, more to think about at work (gotta run!), and certainly more to 
come...

Ian///Shakespace
www.intrlink.com/~illoyd