RE: Looping with a Band

[Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>]

What you are saying about the inflexibility of the drummer is certainly a
problem. Playing with people who are able to listen to what the others are
doing and respond appropriately is important. 

Keep in mind, though, that the person operating the loops has a
responsibility to listen as well, and make sure that they are fitting in
with the others! An example is what you were experimenting with, adjusting
the tempo on your sequences to keep the in time. Similar to what djs will 
do
with the speed controls on their turntables, to keep different records 
lined
up and in tempo so the beat is steady for dancing. There are other
techniques with loops, like retriggering them to get it lined up right with
the groove, changing the loop length as necessary when the tempo speeds up
or slows down, using sync features that are available. These are things you
need to practice and learn how to use in live situations, in the same way
you need to practice playing your other instruments in live situations with
other people. Otherwise, it is you who is inflexible and unable to groove
with the others!

Playing with people who are able to maintain steady tempos is also key.
(it's something I've had to struggle with, coming from a suburban
no-sense-of-rhythm background...) I've mentioned before that I've worked
with Neal Schon of Journey, helping him get his looping rig set up. He has 
5
echoplexes, and is quite fanatical about the whole thing. Journey is a pop
band of course, and most of his other projects fall into fairly mainstream
areas. I think Neal is able to integrate loops into these situations 
because
he and the people he plays with have breathtakingly accurate sense of 
tempo.
Probably comes from years of playing stadium situations where you can't
always hear the others, but have to rely on each other to be exactly
accurate. Not to mention decades of studio work. But really, good tempo is
an important skill for playing in dance and pop oriented bands. You have to
work on it with looping same as with everything else.

When Neal makes a loop, it is exactly the right length for the tempo. He
taps the start and stop points at precisely the right time, and is able to
do that because he practiced it a lot. He is also able to keep the length 
of
the loop and the tempo going in his head, so he can overdub parts that are
correctly in time. I've actually seen him record a 30+ second loop first,
and then overdub the rhythm guitar part into it perfectly, with no obvious
reference for the tempo. Next time you want to laugh in disdain at cheesy
pop music, try doing that!

Anyway, the key is that you need to practice using loops in tempo to get it
right. Learn to use your instruments well, it won't happen on the first try
with no experience!

kim




At 01:09 PM 11/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I played in a Top 40 band from 1983 to 1991 and tried several times to
introduce looping.
>
>My efforts were unsuccessful for the following reasons:
>
>1.  The drummer was the timekeeper.  He would not alter his tempo to a
machine under any circumstances.  For example,  I programmed the 8-note
sequence from "Dancing on the Ceiling" by Lionel Richie into an old Korg
Poly 800.  The drummer did the count off and I pressed the start button and
kept my hand on the sequencer's tempo control.  It was very rare for the
drummer and sequencer to play in time together.
>
>2.  The drummer refused to listen to a click track.
>
>In light of these problems, I decided to let the 8-note sequence play at a
steady speed that I thought was right.  It just floated around the drummer.
As soon as the verse started I faded the sequence out.
>
>Another solution I arrived at was to sample the last note or chord of a
song into a digital delay with its feedback/regeneration control set to 100
percent.  When the other band members stopped playing, I cranked the delay
time knob, causing the pitch of my last note or chord to slide up.  This
always caused several people on the dance floor to go, "Whoaaaaa," with
their voices sliding upward like the sound from my digital delay.
>
>My best suggestion is to find a SYMPATHETIC drummer.
>
>Mark Kata
>Mark@asisoftware.com
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint                       408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research              http://www.chromatic.com