What / who is on the forefront of looping music?

[David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>]

David Myers' observations of Fripp at the Bottom Line brings prompts me
to ask a question of all my fellow loopists.  

I think in the contemporary art world, a great deal of the value
conferred to a "piece" is derived from it's "moving forward" or
expanding an idea beyond a previous state -- puns, meanings and
craftsmanship aside. 

So, in that context, David Myers' complaints that Fripp's "new"
soundscapes aren't all that new, nor are they really "moving forward"
the greater looping "oeuvre" are quite valid.

Granted, that may not be Fripp's Aim.  While I guess confined to a
Fripp-y world, Soundscapes, or as they are recently termed, Space Music,
probably *are* an expansion of the Frippertronic idea.   That said, I
think Fripp's concerns while he is playing his loop-based music are more
to do with the Process (of improvisation and surprises) and the Setting
(breaking up the audience / artist separation), than any concerns with
"art."

Seems to me that's more Eno's territory.

*So, just for giggles, it raises the question, what / who is on the
forefront of "looping-based music"?*

Somewhat an impossible question, but, maybe worth bashing around for a
while.
David Kirkdorffer



        -----Original Message-----
        From:   David Myers [SMTP:dmgraph@bway.net]
        Sent:   Sunday, February 01, 1998 3:07 AM
        To:     Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
        Subject:        Back in the Saddle Again

        Cripes, annihilist wouldn't let me in since Dec. 13th; my ISP
just figured
        out how to fix the problem, whatever it was.  Anyway, hope no
one will mind
        my playing catchup a bit, posting about some older stuff, etc.
What was
        really curious is that the day I was cut off was when I posted
the
        following:

        ------------------------------------------

        Robert at the Bottom Line Saturday night; saw the early show.  I
don't
        think even the people at TC Electronic or Eventide would have
been
        pleased--this is all that can be done with 20 grand worth of
gear?  I kept
        wanting to shout, "OK, Bob, now HIT IT!".  (Wouldn't have been
out of
        place: LOTS of people were shouting.)  It was like he was
waiting for the
        right moment to break loose, but never did and never intended
to--or didn't
        know how.  I well realize that when you make a goof in a looping
situation
        you are in deep trouble, but his timidity was appalling; 5
minutes of what
        we heard would have been impressive, but he more or less just
let it limp
        along for two hours.

        I love everything Crimson has done, and the "Let The Power
Fall"-type
        Frippertronics are kind of minimalist masterpieces, but listen
to what
        somebody like Paul Dresher did on "Liquid and Stellar Music"
many years ago
        and you begin to see that Fripp really doesn't have much to
offer.  Nor do
        I sense that he is even aware of Dresher, Terry Riley, etc.--or
perhaps any
        work outside rock or the rock fringe.  It seems that he believes
he's doing
        something unprecedented.  What he's doing that IS different is
presenting a
        rather inept sort of ambient music to crowds which are largely
unfamiliar
        with even Eno's "Discreet Music" (which this show was uncannily
reminicent
        of), and pissing them off.  I think 90% of this crowd expected
"Red", and
        if I were one of them I'd be screaming, too.  But I think this
is part of
        what Robert wants to do: mess with people.  He will call it
"inviting them
        to expand their horizons" or some such thing, but it seems to me
that it's
        mostly just self-indulgence.

        Yeah, the inevitable flashbulb went off--and so did Bob.  He
returned, but
        without the promised "Q & A" period afterward.  I would have
asked, "can we
        go now?".

        A technical speculation.  Since all Fripp's sounds are
synthesized (on this
        occasion he played two short phrases which just MIGHT have been
actual
        guitar sounds), couldn't one forego the pricy TC audio looping
and just
        feed MIDI info from the guitar into a looping sequencer?  Then
even more
        radical sound alterations would of course be possible (not to
mention
        structural gymnastics), though the gee-whiz factor involved with
a
        6-foot-high rack of gear would be lost....

        --------------------------------------------

        BTW, I wanted to put in my .02 regarding a desert island
looper's list:

        1) Paul Dresher "Liquid and Stellar Music"
        2) Terry Riley "A Rainbow in Curved Air" or "Descending
Moonshine Dervishes"
        3) Robert's "Let The Power Fall" or "Evening Star" w/ Eno
        4) David Torn "Tripping Over God" (anyone have a copy of "What
Means Solid"
        they'd like to sell?)
        5) I agree that Sylvian's "Gone to Earth" is full of great
looping-mostly
        Robert's doing, I think....

        Also, I must say that you guys who can tolerate "Door X" must
have a screw
        loose.  What the hell was David thinking?  Did you ever hear the
albums on
        which even Herbie Hancock decided to sing?  Please!

        --------------------------------------------

        More BTW: I just ordered more RAM to max out my Echoplex and
discovered an
        interesting phenomenon.  Several of the memory companies asked
me, "what is
        it for?", and in one case I told them.  They said, we sell
so-and-so for
        samplers and music equipment--bottom line, the very same 30-pin
SIMMs as
        for a Mac SE30, etc., but a jacked-up price.  Reason?  I
dunno--maybe
        they've had music people return RAM more often?  Anyway, if you
get this
        question concerning 30 pin SIMMs, just tell 'em it's for a Mac
Classic or
        something.  A place called Mohawk Memory sold me 4 meg SIMMs for
$14 each.

        -David Myers