RE: why do people think looping is just for guitar?

[Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>]

At 03:37 PM 2/13/98 -0600, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:
>
>> To me, using real-time loops for percussion or cello or radio
>> transmissions
>> or whatever seems just as valid. Why don't other people see it that
>> way?
>> What do we do to change that perception?
>> 
>> kim
>> 
>Well, actually the people that I play with and/or know do. 
>
>In addition to guitarists I know, there are a violinist; a 6-string
>electric bassist (me); an acoustic bassist; a vocalist/bass
>clarinetist/electric bassist; an acoustic bassist; another electric
>bassist; a vocalist percussionist; and another vocalist /percusionist
>who sometimes loops whatever it is the band is playing (lo-tech whatever
>comes through the mic) and flies it right back in our faces.
>
>As far as changing perceptions? I don't know, maybe you need to meet
>sdome different people (not being snide/facetious).

Well, seems like the point of my question was missed for the second time, 
so
let's give it a third try:

Further expanding upon today's question for thought provocation:

The "people" I'm referencing are not people currently involved in looping.
It's quite evident to me, having been involved in the nuts n' bolts of this
stuff for quite a long time now, that a wide variety of people are using
looping techniques. That was a primary purpose in creating Looper's 
Delight,
in fact. Bring all these different people together so that they can see 
what
they have in common with looping, and share new ideas, and learn from all
the differences. But, those aren't the people that I'm talking about.

My recurring experience is that the average, non-looper musician sees this
as "just a thing for guitarists". (a statement I heard from some dance 
music
producers when I asked them about the idea.) I find it curious that this 
is so. 

I've seen several store displays of loopers where the store placed it in 
the
guitar section, between a guitar and a guitar amp. Now that's certainly
useful, since lots of guitar players will interested. But other people who
also might be interested probably won't see it there. So I wonder why the
store managers perceived it that way, why they chose to put it there. Why 
is
that choice made over the home studio section, or the electronic instrument
section, or anywhere else in the store?

Same with mail order catalogs. Loopers usually turn up in the guitar 
effects
section. Why? Is it really just savvy marketing, thinking that guitar
players will buy the most, let's stick it right under their nose, or is it
because they really think it's just a guitar effect? Having done many trade
show looper demos, I'd suspect the later...

Manufacturers ad campaigns, same story. They talk about how you can record
the rhythm guitar part in the looper and play the guitar solo along with 
it.
They mention various interesting guitarists into looping. No doubt that's
appealing to guitar players, but a somewhat different presentation would
make it appealing to a much wider audience. Why does one get chosen over 
the
other?

and on and on.....

As many of you noted while missing my point and apparently trying to argue
with my characteristically vague and leading question, loopers do come in
many flavors other than guitarists. Yet the widespread perception doesn't
appear to include them, which hardly seems fair or correct. It also creates
a rather uninviting circumstance to some non-guitarists who might find
looping interesting, if only it were presented in a way they could identify
with. If it seems like "just a thing for guitarists" and you're not one,
well....

I guess that's where the question of "how do we change this perception?"
comes in. We all know this is a fun and interesting way to create music, 
and
that that's true whether you are playing accordian or triangle or guitar.
How do we show the musical general public that it's fun and interesting for
anyone? If we want the idea to grow and spread about, what do we show the
world about ourselves, and how do we do it?

wondering how much effort it will take to explain myself the fourth time,

kim
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                      408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com