RE: Disappointed in Hollywood (I WAS THERE TOO)

["Mike Biffle" <Mbiffle@svg.com>]

Hi gang... here's what I was replying to... a response for Steuart Liebig 
regarding Kevin's post. My post was a FOLLOW UP to that.

-Miko

>>> "Liebig, Steuart A." <Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com> 01/17/01 01:19PM >>>
hey miko, can you please forward to the list? my corporate server seems to 
be munching.

this post didn't go through yesterday (corporate server?). so i've had to 
prune a little in hopes of it getting through whatever it need to get 
through.

so i figured that i'd try to give you all what miko excerpted . . . 

—----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
** miko thought that i was being generous yesterday, i guess i'm gonna 
feel a little surly (and long-winded) today . . . 

(And for the most part, even Steuart's own comments are consistent with 
Gary's on the first two acts).

** i guess that the deal is this: yeah i didn't love the first two acts, 
gimme a break. when was the last you time you played a rock club or went 
to one and liked any of the (other) bands? i remember sitting in many a 
rock club and just cringing through the latest guns and roses or 
what-have-you wannabe. i think that this whole thing is so overblown. if 
you want immediate and maximum happiness, stay home and listen to your 
favorite cds; if you wanna hear something that might be different - - that 
you could either love or hate - - go out and hear something, or buy a cd 
by someone you've never heard. i sure have bought a lot of cds by people 
that i only know of and have loved, hated or been bored. i find this 
carping tiresome.

A person's reaction to "music" depends on what they think music is, 
fundamentally... on how they DEFINE it. And, there are certainly many 
different definitions of what constitutes music, aren't there? 

** right . . . 

In all honesty, the headlining act primarily consisted of Steuart using 
various objects and effects to make sound effect-type sounds on his bass, 
while occasionally fingering a few notes here and there. 

** that's YOUR perception. if you want to talk about my compostional aims 
during that gig, we can. the first sound i played was a chord of  c-g#-b, 
with trem and phase-shifter (sounds like harmony to me), i repeated this 
chord numerous times in the first tune.

Dictionary.com defines music as "The art of arranging sounds in time so as 
to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through 
melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre." Well, folks, I think Gary, and I, 
both expected a performance that would adhere to this definition, and with 
some looping thrown in to boot. 

** look: if you have to pull mister webster into this, you are really 
barking up the wrong tree. i suggest that you learn a little more about 
20th-century music. i know this sounds harsh, but give me a break. you 
ever listen to steve reich? there are many pieces where i'm not really 
sure that i hear "melody" as mister webster would define it. is that 
music? how about webern, sometimes no "discernable" melody or rhythm, and 
many hate his harmony and think that it's crap - - but it IS all about 
timbre.  the list could go on and on. say you don't like it or that it 
doesn't fit your aesthetic, but if you're gonna try to get into the 
dictionary (which is
written for laymen, not musicians) with me/it . . . 

For her part, Anna made her own sound effects using a variety of common 
objects and toys, and occasionally sang words in tongues. I am not 
overstating this! Really, folks, in all honesty and trying to give Steuart 
every break I possibly can, you'd have to be using an extremely loose 
definition of the term "music" for that performance to qualify!

** for what it's worth my shorter oxford english dictionary has this: "the 
art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds with a view to 
beauty or coherence of form and expression of emotion." that's what we did 
or were trying to do, WHETHER or not YOU liked it. 

And Anna, bless her heart, I think she really needed something else from 
you last night, Steuart, because all she could do was make goofy sound 
effects herself. 

** ya know, anna has played with some master musicians in america and 
europe: peter kowald, david moss, etc. at this point, i may defer to their 
opinions of her instrument and artistic sesibility/value over yours.

You were the only one who had their hands on a true musical instrument. 
She was the icing on the cake - if you weren't making music, then music 
would not be had.

** careful, your condescension is showing. plus, anna likes what i do with 
her and i like what she does.

>From the audience, the performance felt quite shy of being a musical 
>event. If I may offer constructive comments, I think that what was needed 
>was more rhythmic feel, a greater sense of structure, and much more 
>looping. I know that Steuart said there was looping, but it was not the 
>kind of looping that builds up a structure, that embellishes and enhances 
>the notes and rhythms that went before it. The fact is, there were few 
>occasions when the music
felt like more than one person was playing it.

** so it wasn't looping that YOU LIKE or the way you want to hear it.

The AABA structure Steuart mentioned earlier was not discernable in the 
audience because there was so LITTLE structure to the overall performance.

** sorry you didn't hear it. 

There were awkward pauses after each "song" and before people began to 
clap. Why? Because people weren't sure the "song" was over. No one wanted 
to be the first to clap if there was still more "song" to come. 

** how many improv concerts do you go to? i go to a fair amount. the 
waiting for the right moment to clap is not that unusual.

I also think most of the folks there (perhaps everyone except for Gary and 
I) were there to see performance art, not music. It was about "performance 
art" as the flyers laid on each of the tables said. 

** i gotta tell you this: i don't consider what joseph hammer did to be 
performance art, not in the very least. i don't think that he would 
either. i don't consider myself to be a performance artist, all i do is 
get up and play music (whether or not you like it or care to give it that 
appellation) - - if i could perform better, i probably would've been a lot 
more successful in the rock vein, but i find it hard to prance, all i do 
is stand up and play. the flyer actually said performance art and MUSIC. i 
think that you should just deal with the fact that there was music there 
that you didn't like. why bother avoiding that? 

I got something out of last night.

** that's comforting . . . 

this performance, indeed the whole evening, was not about music.

** for you.

Looking at the evening as an experience in performance art, rather than 
music or looping,
allowed me to get something from the experience. It was acceptable to me 
because I was no longer kidding myself that it was, in fact, music (using 
the definition given above).

** did you have the dictionary with you? ;-)

I honestly felt that I had been misled about what was going to happen 
there, and I felt ripped off that the headline act only played for 30 
minutes... and this even included an onstage
discussion about whether or not to do one more "song" (which they did).

** my original post said something like "bass, tools and loopage" - - not 
"looping, bass and tools"; i guess that most of the people on this list 
use looping a LOT more in their performances/music than i do. maybe i'll 
bail on the gig ads then. as far as time - - I wanted it to be longer too, 
there was a band coming in at 10:00, we had to stop at 9:30, simple 
logistics. i share your disappointment. 

Steuart, I wish you had respected us as an audience a little more to be a 
little better prepared than you two were, 

** it was anna's gig, i felt pretty relaxed about the whole thing, i don't 
know what i should've done to make you feel better. we don't do tunes, 
what exactly do you want us to do?

and to figure out how to make such unusual instrumentation work together 
more effectively.

** your opinion
 
 The potential seemed great, but the implementation fell flat, in my eyes. 
Perhaps you and Anna just don't play together that well - I think we've 
probably all experienced that phenomenon some time or other. I can tell 
from watching your hands that you can play - I just wish that you had! And 
I grant that it is not easy to MAKE music under all the conditions of last 
night. 

** well this is incredibly funny and leads to the whole thing of to each 
his own. people came up to me after the gig and said that the gig was 
"amazing" the EXACT same gig that you saw; people i didn't know. they 
wanted recordings of anna and me, they wanted to know if any of the cds i 
was selling had examples of how i was playing bass that night (i told 'em 
no,
that they were more note-oriented - - and they didn't buy 'em!). i had 
people who were blown away by the fact that i was playing the "whole bass" 
(like percussion, etc.) and not just notes. this is the same gig that you 
saw. i'm sorry that you didn't like it, but really . . . these other 
people did. (balanced with you and gary, i figure that i'm batting at 
least .500, if not higher.) MOST importantly i liked the gig. yeah, i 
liked what we did. we fell down a few times, but that's the nature of 
playing free improv.


Anna felt compelled at one point to tell the audience, in an arguably 
apologetic way, that it was the first gig that she and Steuart had done 
together.

** anna was feeling the burn of being the "entrepaneur" for the evening. 
if you've ever put on your own gigs, you know what this is like; if you 
haven't well, you'll just have to wait for that wonderful feeling of 
anxiety. i feel like you're looking for ammo here . . . 

Had I been riding herd on your rig last night, Steuart, I would have been 
using loops to create rhythmic feels to give a tangible, solid foundation 
to the "music" that Anna was creating. In between her "musical phrases," I 
would have been adding things on top as well, to enhance feeling and 
provide a counterpoint. It would have been great if you two could have 
"talked together" during the performance, using your "instruments"! I 
liked some of
those sound effects you did a lot, but my own opinion is that such effects 
are a means to an end, not an end in itself. I would have wanted to create 
enough of a solid sound canvas that both you and Anna could have painted 
on it at the same time... and in a complementary, musically pleasing way. 
I would have seen that as my responsibility, since I was the only one 
actually using a traditional musical instrument.
 
** i'll mention this to her, maybe she'll be interested. 

*** truthfully, we enjoy playing together. she seems to feel that i fit in 
well with what she does. i really don't have a clue if she would like your 
suggestions. for what it's worth, i guess this is where you got something 
out of the gig; you came up with a way to do something in the context that 
would've fit your aesthetic personality. all to the good, i suppose - - no 
matter how irksome it is for me to hear it.

**** have you considered that your solution may not fit anna's aesthetic? 
are you ready for that? she LOVES the way i play with her. feature that. 
maybe you should find a vocalist to do some free improv with. we can have 
a battle of the bands and you can show us how it's done.

If you lead us to believe that a night of looping music is planned, then 
you should expect that we'll be disappointed if we don't get that. 

**  i don't believe that the post said ANYTHING about an "evening of 
looping music." to be honest, what with joseph hammer's set, i believe 
that there was more looping going on than i advertised! my post said that 
i would be playing bass, tools and loopage (or something to that affect).

 you shouldn't then be surprised if we use the same vehicle you used to 
promote the event, to give back to the community our impressions of the 
event, perhaps even using rather pointed language. 

** i don't have a problem with that. i don't think that all of you 
reasoning has been valid, but it' an interesting dialog. hope you don't 
mind the pointed rebuttal.

In this case, the most honest thing about Steuart's gig spam to this list 
was that he did, in fact, correctly label it as "spam" when he sent it to 
the list. 

** ya know, i made so much money off that gig that i'll now be able to 
stop all the spam i've been sending  from argentina for viagra and all my 
other commercial enterprises. can you tell that your silly comment has 
peeved me a little?

It's not that the evening didn't hold something of value for everyone who 
attended, it's just that it was not the musical/looping event some of us 
expected it would be.

** i'm truly sorry that you didn't like the performance; unfortunatly for 
you, you and gary both decided to come to [probably] the most "out" gig 
that i've done in the last three months. but . . . . excuse me. how times 
do you do anything that "holds value for everyone who attended"? this is 
just ridiculous to assume that it could. if you feel that you deserve to 
like
everything that you hear or see, go back to what you know.  

Stig