Re: Basic intro (OT)

[Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>]

At 01:28 AM 8/17/01 -0700, you wrote:
>it seems our respective positions are (on my end) "context can
>provide meaning in and of itself"

I never disagreed with that. It can be like one of those fonts where only
the letter's shadow is visible yet you can read it clearly. Or conversely,
there's Plato's cave...

>and (on your end) "sampling too much of someone else's song is wrong".

That may well be, but I think what I've been saying can boil down more
closely to "the degree to which *your* work depends on borrowing from
others can be a reflection of your own creativity and originality." You
later clarified that you don't do that, but from your original
Ice-T/Skynyrd example, I can't see how that wouldn't be true, at least in
that instance. I've been speaking mostly of long samples because they are
more likely to be recognizable and to be prominent, but it can happen with
shorter samples too. The key is how much the final work depends on them.
Vanilla Ice's 'Ice Ice Baby', MC Hammer's 'You Can't Touch This', Puff
Daddy rapping over 'Every Breath You Take'; [opinion alert] to me, these
examples are irksome because they appropriate without surpassing. The
samples in these examples are integral to the piece; the songs wouldn't be
the same without them.

I'm not saying that if I do happen to recognise a sample's source it ruins
the song for me. When David Torn (the guy who never said you were stupid)
opens '...til you are free' with a Mitch Mitchell drum fill, it's obvious
that it came from a Hendrix record, but the piece does not DEPEND on it,
and would have much the same impact without it. It sounds great, but
doesn't flaunt an 'I'm ripping off Jimi' vibe at all. There's an
unattributed piano sample on the Sneaker Pimps' 'Becoming X' that I know
perfectly well where it came from (anyone else?), but it's obscure enough
to be very cool and certainly doesn't dominate the song.

>But your point has always sounded an awful lot like "if you
>sampled someone else, then the song isn't really your work".

No, not the simple fact of sampling someone; it's what you then go on to do
with it. It's hard to define what's excessive, but I contend if the sample
forms too much of the basis for your work it's kind of sleazy; remember my
'punctuation vs. whole paragraphs' plagiarism analogy a couple of days ago?

>Is the horse dead yet? ;)

...a couple of days ago.

-t