Re: Importing & Exporting Repeater WAVs

[Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>]

Wow, that's really extensive work.  Thanks a lot, it's saved me a lot of
headache/time.  Makes me kind of mad though, as the Repeater was billed as
something that would give you a raw .wav file for your editing pleasure.  
The
ability to share files between the Repeater and my Mac was one of the main
reasons I bought it over the EDP.  Yet another dissipointment.  I feel that
Electrix should make good on it's claims and write a program (MAC and PC) 
that
would make the conversion from Electrix .wav to standard .wav and back, 
and add
apropreate files so the Repeater can use them again.  It is what they
advertised.

Mark Sottilaro



Tim Goodwin wrote:

> I eventually want to compose loops in ACID and import them onto tracks in
> Repeater to use in live applications.  I would also like to dump my 
>Repeater
> loops onto my PC and add them to a loop library.  But this is much easier
> imagined than done (especially when I am new to both ACID and Repeater!)
>
> First, I tried to export files from my Repeater to my PC.  Once I got my 
>CFC
> reader/writer installed it was no problem at all - just drag and drop.  
>But
> the first thing I noticed was a discrepancy between Repeater's loop 
>lengths
> and ACID's calculation of the loop length.  They are way off and I can't
> seem to find a pattern that explains the discrepancy.  I included some
> numbers to see if one of you brainiacs can figure it out.
>
> Also, when I play Repeater WAVs in ACID (as well as n-Track) there is 
>space
> at the end of the loop that makes it basically unusable.  This is 
>sometimes
> accompanied by a 'click' sound that is definitely not very musical.  Of
> course, I could edit the file to make it sound like a seamless loop, but
> then I would end up with a file that is no longer the same size as the
> original - which prevents, as you may know, Repeater from being able read
> the file.  So if want to be able to use a loop on Repeater again, I 
>better
> not touch it.  But if I want to be able to use it in ACID, I have to edit
> it.
>
> I wrote down the info that Repeater displays about a loop and compared 
>it to
> how ACID and n-Track view the WAV files that comprise the loop.  Like I
> mentioned, there is a big difference.  Here are the Repeater stats for 
>the
> first 10 loops on my CFC card.  All bpm's are native tempos.  Please 
>keep in
> mind that I used loop multiply and resample on some tracks, but that 
>doesn't
> explain the discontinuity.
>
>              Repeater Loop/Track Stats
> Folder    #bars  time sig   bpm   #tracks
>
> LOOP1      32       4/4     93.0     4
> LOOP2       4       3/4     90.3     4
> LOOP3       2       4/4    131.0     1
> LOOP4       8       4/4     69.8     2
> LOOP5       2       3/4     88.6     2
> LOOP6       1       7/8     94.7     2
> LOOP7       4       3/4     84.0     3
> LOOP8       4       4/4    107.0     1
> LOOP9       4       4/4    119.9     1
> LOOP10      5       2/4    161.0     4
>
> And here are the WAV's as I saw them on my computer:
>
>      WAV         General WAV info    ACID analysis of WAV
> (loop#.track#)   length     size       beats       bpm
>
>     1.1          00:06:04    527k       8          78.3
>     1.2          01:22:25   7135k       ?           ?
>     1.3          01:22:25   7135k       ?           ?
>     1.4          01:22:25   7135k       ?           ?
>
>     2.1          00:05:00    431k       8          95.7
>     2.2          00:04:08    367k       8         112.4
>     2.3          00:08:05    703k      16         117.5
>     2.4          00:08:05    703k      16         117.5
>
>     3.1          00:04:19    399k       8         103.4
>
>     4.1          00:07:24    671k      16         123.1
>     4.2          00:27:26   2399k      64         137.8
>
>     5.1          00:05:00    431k       8          95.7
>     5.2          00:04:08    367k       8         112.4
>
>     6.1          00:05:12    463k       8          89.1
>     6.2          00:04:19    399k       8         103.4
>
>     7.1          00:04:19    399k       8         103.4
>     7.2          00:05:06    447k       8          92.3
>     7.3          00:04:25    415k       8          99.4
>
>     8.3          00:10:01    863k      16          95.7
>
>     9.1          00:08:27    767k      16         107.7
>     9.2          00:08:27    767k      16         107.7
>
>    10.1          00:03:27    335k       8         123.1
>    10.2          00:04:19    399k       8         103.4
>    10.3          00:04:03    351k       8         117.5
>    10.4          00:04:03    351k       8         117.5
>
> I noticed that a couple of WAVs were actually the same exact size/length 
>as
> a WAV in another loop.  Ah!  My lucky break.  I could test WAV 'imports'
> that were not only the same file size, but they were generated on 
>Repeater
> itself.
>
> First I simply copied and pasted the same WAV and renamed it with another
> track number.  For instance, in LOOP3 I copied TRACK1.wav and renamed the
> copy TRACK2.wav.  This didn't work.  I assume that's because the new 
>track
> had no track info file.
>
> Then I resampled track 1 to track 2.  This gave me two tracks of the same
> size and two Repeater generated info files to match each track.  I took 
>the
> CFC out and connected it to my PC.  Then I copied TRACK1.wav from LOOP7
> (which is exactly the same size), renamed it TRACK2.wav and dropped it 
>into
> the LOOP3 folder.  Bingo.  It played back without any alteration in pitch
> and generally sounded like the same audio sample.  But it still didn't 
>line
> up properly.  I can only attribute this to the fact that I was still 
>using
> the info file that was created for LOOP3.  According to Repeater, LOOP3 
>is 2
> bars of 4/4 @ 131bpm and LOOP7 is 4 bars of 3/4 @ 84bpm.  So even though
> ACID saw both files as the same length, number of beats and bpm, Repeater
> saw a difference.  And the difference that was distinguished by Repeater
> affected the LPA trim points which affected the way the WAV played back.
>
> Also, tracks 3 and 4 of loop 10 are resamples of track 1 and 2,
> respectively, but they are a different size than either of the originals.
> Weird.  Even weirder is that they are the *same* size, even though the
> originals were different.  Very weird.  Perhaps resamples are new 
>recordings
> of the original LPA'd audio files (i.e. they are the same size because 
>both
> originals are bound to the trim points of the loop during playback).  But
> then why does track 1 sound the same as the track 3 resample on the
> Repeater?  And why do both files share the same awkward hesitation in 
>ACID?
> That's downright super freaky weird.
>
> So my questions remain:
>
> Is there a way to edit the proprietary files in the loop folders to 
>handle
> imported WAVs?
>
> Is there a way to create these files to accompany ACID loops for import 
>into
> Repeater?
>
> Is there a way to alter the WAV file on Repeater so that the start and 
>end
> points of the loop are the same as the start and endpoints of the WAV?  
>This
> would allow for accurate playback on my PC without having to change the
> file.
>
> Is it possible to 'Repeaterize' ACIDized WAVs for play back on a 
>Repeater?
>
> I'm also wondering if there is a looping program that lets you specify 
>the
> *exact* file size to 1/100th of a second?  Does ACID Pro do this?
>
> Anywho, I'm tired and need to sleep.  I'm still buzzing from the events 
>in
> New York and DC.  However, I think I'm finally exhausted enough to go lie
> down.  I hope this info can be of use to someone.  That's why I posted 
>it.
> I am actually more confused than anything (which is probably obvious to 
>the
> discriminating reader).  But my efforts are sincere. :)
>
> --
> Tim