Re: memory and improvisation

[Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>]

>  > i wonder if it is possible to improvise entirely without licks... 
><snip>
>
>I've wondered at times, that after lengthy exploration of your 
>instrument and it's normal and extended techniques, if you "run out" 
>of completely surprising moments available to you due to your 
>familiarity with your instrument? Not that I'm anywhere near 
>something like that, but I do sometimes feel that I've developed a 
>"toolbox" of techniques and sounds which I'm often compelled to try 
>and reach beyond.

I am waiting for this point for years. When I took the decision to 
only improvize, I talked to an advanced musician and he said I would 
get to a boarder soon, without studying new things. I limited my 
range of effects and use the same for years and its still going 
foreward.
When sex get boring, you can:
- buy gadgets
- get another partner
- take a break
- change your attitude
...but you cannot change your instrument :-)

>
>  > but it seems to me that those new musical ideas that flow during 
>improvisation come mostly from recombinations of other ideas in the 
>musical meme pool rather than entirely new concepts.

what would "entirely new" be? Isnt it very subjectif? I use the same 
words and expressions every day, but do I say the same? I may pick up 
a groups expressions to "be one of them", or even repeat what others 
say, as I do here:

>Matthias quotes what he remembers Martial Solal said:
>  >>"Real improvising musicians dont remember what they play. Many 
>can play amazing combinations of phrases they remember, but its just 
>a collage of clichees. It really starts where we play what we dont 
>know ourselves. ...  improvisation takes a lot of very quick 
>thinking!"
>
>Assemblage of "known" phrases and response to others playing is 
>pretty much the bulk of what happens in improv. Truly reinventing 
>oneself (epiphany) and playing *entirely* new, unknown passages 
>seems to be the exception. Aspiring to that is the path, I guess... 
>Using a combination of a "blank sheet" approach to improv passages, 
>and trying to think thematically on my feet, seems to get me the 
>most mileage. This presumes that I and my partners are listening 
>well and spontaneously reacting to each other.

right. But its very different to listen to each other or to listen to 
the whole!

>The fact remains, that all players are burdened by a certain range 
>of sounds and techniques available to them at any given point in 
>their career, and are bound by whatever limitations those imply. The 
>creative use of those are what takes it into the sublime.

exactly! Usually I dont figure out what expressions I may use before 
I speak nor do I keep a vocabulary at home. In some toolbox there may 
be more sounds, in others more licks or chord changes, its what the 
water has to deal with when it comes through your hose, its what you 
offer to the spirit that may want to speak through you. (so the more 
you practise, the more the spirits become interested so you have more 
to select from... me on ice again :-)
-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org