Re: very OT: Re: Soundscapes/Frippertronics debate postscript

[todd reynolds <toddreynolds@rcn.com>]

In the spirit of kim's statements about moderating the group ourselves...

I have always been amazed at dt's great spirit in participating in the
conversation, and I, too, check out many of his posts just to hear a real
'educated by intense experience' type of viewpoint.  I also feel the same
about kim and matthias and others, for the record.  I am once again amazed
by a real patient and sane response by mr. Torn, especially given the
strength and heat of some of pb's inflammatory comments.

It sounds like dt is on the responsibility-taking tip.  For pb, however, 
I'm
not sure this will ever be over...  Sad that this all devolves into 
personal
stuff, but I must wonder if this is not about the proposed topic at all,
rather perhaps a favorite toy stolen at 5 years old, or some other regret.

todd





On 12/17/01 9:07 AM, "Hedewa7@aol.com" <Hedewa7@aol.com> wrote:

> pbadore@rochester.rr.com writes:
>> I don't like people left and right e-mailing my private address.
> 
> as it's been a while, i can't really remember why i emailed you, 
>privately
> --- maybe it was because this had become so clearly 'off-topic', maybe 
>it was
> merely another of my mistakes.
> 
> pb>I dislike LD for printing them.  I occasionally make exceptions but 
>this
> is not one
>> of them.  During this past month I debated whether to reply to this or 
>not
>> and have obviously decided.  I would appreciate it if you would leave me
> alone
>> after this, and if you attempt to do otherwise I'll delete your message
>> unread.  Feel free to submit a copy of this to LD as I don't feel like
>> resubscribing just for the sake of one letter.
> 
> i'll admit that i'm confused, here, again --- maybe you could let me 
>know if
> you receive this email;
> i will post it to LD, w/your post intact --- as maybe you'll only see it,
> there, presuming that you continue to scan the LD archives.....
> 
> pb>> >What about *interpretation*, the key issue here?  I resent your 
>sarcasm
>>>> represented by the asterisks,
> 
> dt>> on the subject of interpretation --- i use asterisks in my email to
> merely
>>> *stress* a word, not for sarcasm.
>>> i'm not a sarcastic guy.
> 
> pb>I seem to recall "elecTORNica".  Everyone is sarcastic one way or 
>another.
> 
> that wasn't meant as sarcasm, just cheap humor.
> 
> 
> pb>There is also no need for you to stress anything.  Just write your 
>messages
>> straight.
> 
> well, that's how i speak, as well --- with exaggerated dynamics; though, 
>i
> have often been accused of verbal ellipsis.
> 
> 
> pb>> >but I also apologize if I wasn't clear enough
>>>> at the beginning.
> 
> dt>> don't worry; we're just talking, & i apparently misunderstood  your
>>> intentions.
> 
> pb>> >I assure everyone I'm not crazy or making this up when
>>>> I say I found a few downloads on either LD (might have been CD1 but
>> they're
>>>> deleted) or off Elephant Talk but can't recall exactly where.
> 
> i *certainly* never said nor implied anything about anyone being 'crazy'.
> 
> 
> pb>> >Earlier
>>>> today
>>>> I made a search but to no avail.  But these people labelled their work
>>>> "Soundscapes" in relation to KC material.  Hence my comments.
> 
> dt>> is that where this started?
>>> again --- i had no idea that this is what you were talking about 
>referring
>>> to ---
>>> confusion.
> 
> pb>Then why did you get involved in the first place?
> 
> i got involved, as i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom i 
>thought
> was new at LD) might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated to
> slavishly aping robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
> i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads at a
> particular website;
> my mistake!
> 
> 
> pb>I've looked at the
>> archives and notice there's rarely a subject you haven't added your two
>> cents to. 
> 
> well, this may be wrong, but..... i am trying to continue w/some kinda
> participitation in/contribution to the looping-'community', and, since i 
>do
> this looping-thing pretty much every day, i figure there ought to be 
>*some*
> useful-to-somebody-bits in a portion of the crap that i spout..... but, 
>maybe
> not:
> that's one risk that i continue to take --- that of being an ass, and
> publicly so.
> 
> 
> pb>The original subject was "KC in SF - No Loop Content".  Naturally
>> Crimsonesque & Frippesque terms were bound to be used.  Aside from our
>> argument I've probably inputted about three times and only if it's 
>something
>> I was familiar with.  You don't see me blabbing about David Torn, do 
>you?
>> Unless, of course, he tried to attack me with some stupid 
>misinterpretation
>> of my comments!  If you don't know or care to know about something, STAY
>> OUT
>> OF IT!!! (Now THAT's stress!)
> 
> pb>> >But
> 
> dt>> why, but?
> 
> pb>Why not?  Again, I don't really want to know.
> 
> pb>> >let's put your original thoughts in a proper perspective.  If I 
>said:
>>>> "Hey you motherfuckin' asshole loopers!  You don't know shit about 
>what
>>>> you're doin'!  All you're doing is copying soundscapes which was 
>invented
>>>> by the great Robert Fripp years ago after he created Frippertronics.
>>>> Copycat candyasses!"
>>>> NOW I deserve every counterattack from the past couple of days!  
>However,
>>>> I accept your apology; but please keep in mind you started a precedent
> 
> 
> dt>> if i started a precedent, that precedent was not meant as a personal
>>> attack,
> 
> 
> pb>But ya DID, Blanche,  ya DID make a personal attack!
> 
> well, that was truly unintentional;
> i thought that i was addressing what appeared to be an 'issue' --- at 
>least,
> for me.
> and:
> i have every hope & confidence that your personal & musical 
>contributions to
> this screwy world are broadly valuable, either now or in the future.
> 
> 
> dt>> just my thoughts & responses presented in this environment which
>> encourages
>>> the exchange of ideas.
> 
> 
> pb>Yeah, at my expense.
> 
> that's not at all what i meant to do; that's the mistake for which i
> apologise.
> 
> 
> dt>> i am indeed sorry that you perceived it otherwise;
>>> i meant no personal harm.
> 
> 
> pb>> >that
>>>> fortunately is now waning, aside from Sottilaro's continuing 
>childishness
>>>> which has long worn out  (even I stopped the hanky lines).  Our 
>society
>>>> today enjoys attacking itself and who cares if there's no real reason
>> for
>>>> it?
> 
> so, why, then, would you stoop to attacking mark sottilaro's innocently
> good-humored posts?
> 
> 
> 
> dt>> actually, there was a reason for my response, which i tried to make
> clear.
> 
> 
> pb>No, you didn't.
> 
> i *tried* to make it clear. to reiterate:
> i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom i thought was new at LD)
> might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated to slavishly aping
> robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
> i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads at a
> particular website;
> my mistake!
> 
> 
> pb>> >I'm also sorry I wasted everyone's time, including my own.  Once I 
>had
>>>> gotten everything together I was hoping to put something on LD, but
>> now
>>>> everything's gone to waste.  Perhaps in time I'll either return or -
>> more
>>>> likely - find another outlet for my music.
> 
> i sincerely hope that you find an outlet for your music, at LD or 
>otherwise.
> 
> 
> dt>> while i'm not sure that i consider LD as an outlet for music, it is 
>a
> good
>>> place for expressing ideas / information / thoughts, as regards 
>looping &
>>> such; there are *many* threads besides this one (see the archives), 
>and i
>>> think it might be the only net-place that is really loop-centric ---
>>> sorry if you are somehow dissuaded from hanging.
> 
> 
> pb>"Somehow"??  I'm a villain because of your assumption and don't argue 
>this!
> 
> i certainly do *not* perceive you as a villain!
> i perceive you as someone with whom i've had a somewhat obtuse verbal
> misunderstanding.
> 
> 
> pb>I admit I'm hardly what you'd call a professional, but does that mean
> people
>> of your caliber need to look down your noses at people of mine?
> 
> i do not 'look down my nose' at you; i was --- or, so i thought --- 
>trying to
> bring another perspective to the discussion.
> 
> 
> pb>It strikes me odd that you have so much time on your hands to 
>participate
> in this!
> 
> huh?
> 
> 
> pb>Even Fripp only contributes to ET once every few years!
> 
> ..... does that statement imply that you believe that i should, as a 
>rule,
> follow his example? while i love & respect RF, that is not gonna happen:
> different strokes, etc.
> 
> 
> pb>I am disgusted that LD has turned into both a forum for you (a lot of
> gushing)
> 
> well, if ya hung around, it'd be a forum for you, too..... as it seems 
>to be
> for other folks.
> 
> 
> pb>and a commercial site for the Repeater
> 
> actually, i'd say that the majority of posts relate directly to the EDP,
> though repeater has (naturally, due to its recent release date) made a 
>strong
> showing, as have the jamman, boomerang, line6, orville, bossRC20, kyma, 
>acid,
> headrush, etc etc.....
> 
> 
> pb>(a piece of shit, if you ask me).
> 
> while not perfect -(but what looper is everything, to all users?)- i'm 
>quite
> happy with my repeater --- it's been a very, very useful tool, for me, 
>among
> others.
> 
> 
> pb>I used to work voluntarily as a DJ at a radio station in the Rochester
>> Institute of Technology and found nothing there but a bunch of technical
>> yesmen who all said the same thing.  That's why I left LD:  Last month
>> was a rerun of those horrible days (although I gotta admit, the debates 
>that
>> resulted did bring some humanity to the dullness).
> 
> i'm sorry to hear of the recall of bad memories, and of the dullness.
> 
> 
> dt>> best,
>>> dt / s-c
> 
> pb>I'd hate to see your worst.
>> PB
> 
> damn, that's cold.
> dt / s-c
>