Re: re[2]: granular looping

[Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>]

man, that is a whole hell of a lot of work, i came
upon an easier way to do this with the overdub and
riding the feedback pedal whilst changing the phrase
times by glitching the cable aginst various things
i've found. i also do this with the Digitech units
riding the delay in real time via cv either hand or
foot controlled.
welcome, pf


--- Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:
> inna nother recent thread, this exchange twixt kevin
> g. & mr. flint yielded 
> kim's EDP-oriented self-definition of 'granular
> looping'.
> the thread is quoted, herein, w/kim's explication at
> bottom: it seemed to me 
> worthy of repeating to those interested in LoopIV
> who mighta missed it.
> so:
> 
> At 05:50 PM 6/13/2002, Kevin Goldsmith wrote:
> > >Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded
> multiply, 8th-quantized
> > >substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a
> Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
> > >
> >Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be
> done on all loopers, but 
> >it can be done on the repeater
> 
> Sorry, that is not correct. Unrounded Multiply is
> not really equal to 
> "shorten loop". It is a lot more powerful than that.
> Unrounded multiply 
> lets you multiply a loop by an arbitrary amount, set
> by where you tap the 
> start and ending points. It can be shorter or longer
> than the original. 
> While you are creating this new-sized loop, you can
> simultaneously overdub 
> in real time. This means you could create a new loop
> that is .87x of the 
> original, or 3.4x of the original, or whatever you
> want. Over the top of it 
> you could then have a new overdub of this new
> length. Since you can start 
> at any point of your original loop, you can
> effectively create a new 
> startpoint of your loop.
> 
> The original question was about how to start with an
> ambient loop, and then 
> evolve it into a rhythmical loop where the rhythm
> may not match up with the 
> initial loop length. This is precisely the reason
> why we invented the 
> Unrounded Multiply in the EDP, because this is a
> very common need.
> 
> The great thing about it is you don't even need to
> pay attention to the 
> loop lengths at all as you are creating this. So for
> example, you start off 
> creating your ambient loop however you like,
> creating some texture and 
> overdubbing on it or whatever. Maybe it's 5 seconds
> maybe 8, whatever - 
> it's ambient. Then gradually as you create it, some
> point in the loop 
> begins to feel like the "beginning", and that is the
> point where you want 
> to start something more rhythmic. This may have no
> relation at all to the 
> actual startpoint of the loop, but it doesn't
> matter. At the point where 
> you want to start the rhythmic section, you tap
> Multiply and start playing 
> the new part. Again, you don't need to pay any
> attention to loop lengths, 
> just your playing. When you reach the end of your
> rhythmic bit where you 
> want to set the end of the loop, you simply tap
> Record. Now you have a new 
> loop that is the length of your rhythmic phrase,
> with however much of the 
> original ambient bed repeated under it as happened
> to fit in that space. 
> This is a very easy and organic thing to do.
> 
> and no, the Repeater does not have a function like
> this, and neither does 
> any other looper.
> 
> In LoopIV, we've opened up new possibilities with
> Unrounded Multiplies, 
> where it has become an important part of doing
> LoopWindowing and granular 
> loops.
> 
> 
> >8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically
> (really replace 
> >rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it
> produces a similar if not 
> >the exact effect).  I've done this on the repeater,
> DL4, Headrush and 
> >Boomerang, I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it
> done there too.
> 
> again, you are not understanding the function. The
> notion of "quantized" 
> control versus free or "unquantized" control of loop
> functions is unique to 
> Loop and the Echoplex, which is the only device that
> lets you choose. The 
> repeater does not have any such concept. It's
> functions are either 
> quantized or not, and you do not have a choice. Same
> with all other 
> loopers. I find the Repeater tends towards
> quantizing the control actions, 
> since it tends to be aimed more towards dance music
> production where 
> precise rhythm is important. Most other loopers only
> have unquantized 
> action, where functions always happen immediately.
> This tends to work 
> better in ambient loops, but can be a problem when
> you want the tight 
> rhythmic accuracy. The EDP lets you work either way.
> 
> In LoopIV we have expanded the quantizing
> possibilities in some really 
> interesting ways. It used to be in LoopIII that
> having quantize on only 
> forced control actions to happen at the next cycle
> boundary. (in EDP-speak 
> the cycle is the basic initial loop length set by
> Recording the loop, using 
> multiply or insert lets you create longer loops that
> consist of multiple 
> cycles.)
> 
> LoopIV now has two new values for quantize, 8th and
> Loop. Quantize=Loop 
> means that if you have multiplied the loop, any
> functions you do will wait 
> until the next overall loop boundary instead of the
> next cycle. This can be 
> really practical in use.
> 
> Quantize=8th is interesting because it lets you
> subdivide the cycles for 
> the quantizing boundaries. It actually subdivides
> according to the 
> 8th/cycle parameter, so you can make it anything you
> want. The default for 
> 8th/cycle is 8, so normally it subdivides to 8th
> notes. You could just as 
> easily set it to 4 for quarter notes, or 5 or 13 or
> whatever. What this 
> does is precisely quantize any action you do to the
> next 8th boundary in 
> the cycle. This lets you do interesting things like
> replace exactly one 8th 
> note, for example. Or make sure reverse always
> starts exactly on the beat 
> so that your loop doesn't fall out of rhythm while
> going in and out of 
> reverse.
> 
> Above I think you are trying to imply that you just
> do the same thing 
> manually, which is certainly possible. What you will
> find though is you can 
> never be as precise as the machine (and maybe you
> don't want to be.)  Using 
> quantize=8th is great when you do want that machine
> like precision. It is 
> also great when working with very fast tempos, where
> trying to tap in and 
> out of a function in exactly one 8th note is too
> difficult. The results of 
> using this function can sound a lot like using a
> step sequencer, and it's a 
> lot of fun.
> 
> The next confusion you have is over the functions
> Replace, Substitute, and 
> Overdub. These functions have similarities, but they
> are not the same. 
> Everybody knows overdub, that is where you play
> something and it is added 
> on top of whatever is in the loop, and both new and
> old remain. Replace is 
> a very immediate function, where the current loop
> audio immediately drops 
> out when it is pressed, and whatever you play during
> that time replaces 
> what was there. Only the new thing remains.
> 
> Substitute is another new function in LoopIV, and is
> also unavailable in 
> any other looper. Substitute is similar to replace,
> except the current 
> audio in the loop doesn't disappear while you are
> playing the new bit. You 
> still hear the existing stuff as you play, which can
> be very useful for 
> maintaining the feel, or giving a sense of
> continuity to the listener. Then 
> 
=== message truncated ===


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