Re: Echoplex w/drum machine question

[Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>]

At 02:38 AM 6/24/2003, Terry Blankenship wrote:
>I can't get it to stay in sync at all for any length
>of time. I tried having the echoplex out to the DR670
>in and then tried reversing it with the DR670 out to
>the Echoplex in.

you are sort of unclear about what exactly the trouble is. Here you say it 
doesn't sync at all, which implies it is drifting. Then below you indicate 
it does sync after the initial record and only gets off the sync when you 
use certain functions. That implies the problem is you are de-aligning the 
loop from the drum machine, not necessarily losing sync.

>(I have quantize on and set to LOP, 8th cycle is set
>to 8, and sync is set to out, switch quant is off.I
>set the tempo to 140.)

and are you certain that you have the DR670 set up to receive midi clock?

Does it start up from the startsong message of the Echoplex, and then play 
at the right tempo?


>Using the echoplex out to the DR670 in the echoplex
>goes a whole bar before it even turns the drum machine
>on.

that is how it normally works for the basic form of sync, when you don't 
use the new TempoSelect functions. The echoplex has no idea how long the 
loop will be before you finish recording it, so it obviously doesn't know 
what tempo the clock should be. It waits until you finish the recording 
(so 
it knows how long the loop is and therefore the tempo). Then it sends a 
startsong and the clock.

If you want the Echoplex to know the tempo in advance and send clocks and 
startsongs before recording, you use TempoSelect.

>I want it to start the drum machine when I hit
>record.
>
>Or better yet it would be nice to be able to start the
>drum machine and then be able to hit record whenever I
>wanted to start the echoplex.

As I said yesterday, you use the TempoSelect functions to do that. Did you 
try them? These features allow you to do exactly what you are asking for.


>It stays in sync as long as I don't hit any buttons
>except overdub. If I hit reverse it is totally out of
>sync when I hit reverse to go back to forward again.
>
>If I hit half speed it is out of sync when I go back
>to normal speed.

It sounds to me like you are using these functions unquantized, in which 
case of course it goes out of phase with the drum loop in the drum 
machine. 
If you reverse the loop for a while and then unreverse, the loop will be 
shifted by that much. This is called DeAligning the loop, because you end 
up shifting the startpoint of the Echoplex loop away from the external 
loop. However, even when you do this you do not lose sync. The loops still 
stay locked together, they are just shifted out of phase with each other.

LoopIV now has the magic ReAlign and StartSong commands. The Echoplex 
keeps 
track of all the DeAligning you do with reverse and halfspeed and 
retriggering and such. Then when you can use the ReAlign commands to put 
it 
back automatically.

If you don't want the loop going out of phase with the drum machine loop 
in 
the first place, which it sounds to me you don't, then you should always 
use reverse and halfspeed quantized. This way they always wait until the 
next downbeat of the loop before they start, and the beats stay lined up. 
When you switch back to forward (or full speed), it again waits for the 
downbeat. This way you keep regular, in-phase rhythm.


>I tried setting the half speed button to a parameter
>with double the value of everything else and it did
>keep the drum machine at the same speed when I hit
>half speed but, If I hit half speed again later to
>return it to normal speed, the drum machine doubles
>it's speed.

it sounds to me like your second command did not set the 8ths/cycle back 
to 
whatever it was when you started.

>If there is a clear explanation in the loop IV manual
>of how to make the echoplex work in time with a drum
>machine I can't find it.

there is the whole chapter on the new sync commands in the LoopIV upgrade 
manual. That manual is mainly meant for people familiar with using sync in 
LoopIII, since the LoopIV manual only explains the new features. It does 
explains them fairly thoroughly, and hopefully clearly. Since your 
questions are not referring to any of that stuff, I guess you haven't read 
it yet.

There is also the information on using sync with the echoplex in the FAQ 
on 
the Looper's Delight web site:
http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/echoplex/FAQ3.html

and in the older echoplex manual in the sections on Sync and 8ths/cycle.

and if you search the list archives you will hundreds of past discussions 
on this topic.



>Are any of you out there able to use all of the
>functions in the echoplex and keep a drum machine
>going steady and in time for 10 minutes without
>drifting, and without going schizoid when you hit any
>button besides overdub?

yes, I've been doing it the whole time I was writing this mail. I record 
the drum loop from the sequencer into the echoplex and let them play 
together in sync. Then I play with switching half-speed and reverse, 
changing 8ths/cycle, playing with the mix knob, etc. Going  It's a great 
way to make a boring drum loop into a more live and interesting drumloop.

>It's a good thing I didn't try using a drum machine
>with the echoplex when I first got it or it would have
>gone straight back to Guitar Center. Another couple of
>nights like tonight and it may end up on e-bay.

you mean the drum machine or the echoplex?

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com