images and sounds (was Improvising vs. composing)

["David Kirkdorffer" <vze2ncsr@verizon.net>]

Emile -

I totally hear what you're saying here on points 1, 2, & 3!

I've been a musical performer while you are performing visually.  Many 
times
I've wished I could always see the imagery you're making while I perform.
Otherwise, you're forced to follow me, because I can't see what you're
doing.  That can be frustrating for me too.

Another situation is when I've been booked as a performer and only learn a
videographer will be providing visual accompaniment when I get to the gig.
Perhaps this is a bit black and white, but when THAT happens:

- If the music is really sucking, it can be a real help to have some visual
element going and distracting your audience.
- If the music is really good, it can really suck to have some visual
element going on and distracting your audience.

The random collision of "your sounds" with "someone else's" visuals, can
create happy accidents.  It can also overwhelm the inner-landscape that the
visuals OR the music alone would have created.

Just like with anything, getting to know the people you work with -- and/or
sharing expectations -- makes all the difference.
Investing in synchronizing/coordinating the audio and visuals to create a
piece that leverages both sound and vision makes something new and
different. Here, the whole is more than the sum of the parts.  And you know
it succeeds on those terms when you feel that one element alone fails
without the presence of the other.  Now, it's THIS what I would like to
experience more.

In the heat of the moment and with all the set-up logistics going I'm 
guilty
of not specifically taking a moment with you to come up with a little plan
on what we might do together.  For example, how long would it take if I 
came
to you and said, "We've 15 minutes.  Let's do three pieces.  I'll follow 
you
on the first.  You follow me on the second. And on the third let's try to 
be
all about 'gentleness.' "  Clearly that hardly does justice to either of 
us,
but it's better than no communication.

David


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: Improvising vs. composing


> I struggle with this all of the time, lately mainly in the video
> realm. Among the problems I find are
>
> 1. The clearer the idea I think I have about what I want to do,
> the harder it is to get started, and the less I feel I accomplish per
> unit time.
>
> 2. No matter how much I tell myself I'm going to focus on the
> original idea, my explorations always point me to something else -- 
> usually some detail or image  or  side idea catches my eye and
> distracts me from the intended structure.
>
> 3. By the time the piece is halfway finished I'm so tired of the
> idea I can't tell if my changes are making it better or worse.
>
> In addition, and more unique to my genre, its hard to get the
> musicians to follow what I do, which reduces the point of having a
> preconceived structure unless I'm working with a structured group
> long enough to learn their material and compose sections for each of
> their pieces.
>
>
>
>
> At 12:30 AM -0500 2/1/04, Dan Soltzberg wrote:
> >Hi gang,
> >
> >
> >Would love to hear people's experiences with this dilemma:
> >
> >I've been doing a project, Orange, for a couple years. Tonight, I
> >packed my gear out of a rehearsal space and turned in my keys after
> >3 months of struggling with trying to take this improvisational
> >project and make it more structured- i.e., take stuff we'd made up
> >and recorded at various shows and sessions and re-learn it and make
> >a bunch of songs out of it. I just found I wasn't enjoying the
> >process of trying to do this.
> >
> >So it seems I'm no longer very interested in writing and playing
> >songs- what I really get inspired doing is going out on a limb and
> >making the music up as I go. I can't seem to get the kind of
> >spiritual high I get when I'm improvising if I'm playing stuff
> >that's pre-structured. Not that I don't like structure- I just like
> >creating it on the fly.
> >
> >Problem is, 1. It's kind of intense to go to every show having no
> >idea of what I'm going to play, hoping the muse is on the guest list
> >
> >2. It's hard to bring other musicians in without having at least
> >some structure.
> >
> >
> >Thoughts? Similar experiences? Solutions?
> >
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >
> >--
> >ghost 7/ Orange
> >http://www.envelopeproductions.com
> >d.ans@rcn.com
>
>
> -- 
> "Any universe simple enough to be understood is too simple to produce
> a mind able to understand it"  --  John D. Barrow
>
> This conjecture strikes me as a logical extension of Godel's
> Incompleteness Theorem.
>
>
> Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at
> http://www.foryourhead.com
>
> Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
> Video Producer Image Processing Specialist
> Video for your HEAD! Boris FX
> http://www.foryourhead.com http://www.borisfx.com
>