Re: Powered Subs

["Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>]

Really interesting, Bill. Yes, I was always suspicious of the claim that 
people can't hear the directional source of low frequencies. Even more 
surprising is comments from old school sound guys who say no one can tell 
whether you run stereo or mono through the mains...yes, maybe for a band 
who 
is all mono, but that would be a load of crap for today's electronic 
musicians (we all know that and experiences the beauty of stereo imaging). 
But back to the sub topic, I still may get two of the Mackies.  I don't 
know 
about anyone else, but if someone like Jeff Kaiser is using a stereo pitch 
shifter in max (which I do on occasion as well), and he has the left side 
at 
+24 and the right side at -24 (and let's say he is playing a 200hz note), 
+I 
can hear it in the subs.  How can anyone not?  The test is simple. Just 
run 
a sine wave into system, let's say 100hz, turn of the mid/high mains, and 
then do some hard panning of the subs. I can hear it.

You asked: "Out of curiosity, what is the lowest tone you typically 
produce 
in a show? The low E on a
> guitar? If so, then even one sub might be more than you'll need in order 
>> 
> to get your point across! ;-)"

As many folks know on the list, I use laptop processing via max (looper, 
other octave effects) that completely transform the sound of my guitar. It 
is not uncommon for me to play a low E on the guitar (82.4hz), and then 
apply a two octave drop.  I'm not sure what that would be. It would be 
below 
41.2hz, which is low E on a bass guitar. In fact sometimes, I will go 
force 
a drop from let say some note on a guitar, and drive to 0hz.  Often times 
you can hear that happen in my system because there will be a few clicks. 
It's choking. :)  In live apps, one may not be able to hear let's 15hz, 
but 
you can sure feel it.  I would agree the feeling is probably not 
directional, but if I rise above to 100hz. I can tell the direction.  I 
don't how any anyone could say not....wouldn't that imply that if if a 
guitarist striks he low E string, listeners could not tell the source, 
left 
or right? That seems absurd.

Kris





Kris

----- Original Message ----- 

> Actually, Bose has perpetrated this myth all too well. Because the low 
> frequencies involved *are* omnidirectional in nature, everyone believes 
> this myth. However, the human ear does use arrival time in this 
>frequency 
> range in order to get some directional information. Robin Miller 
> <http://filmaker.com>, who is an expert in multichannel sound, can play 
> you a recording of a church pipe organ. Using only one subwoofer, it 
> sounds OK since this is how most people hear it in typical sound 
>systems. 
> But using stereo subs, the recording opens up and becomes amazing, 
> revealing details that usually are only heard in the original chuch 
> environment while the pipe organ is being played.
>
> Having revealed that, however, for your performing needs, one sub is all 
> that you'll need, Kris. I doubt that you have much directional 
>information 
> being produced in that frequency range. Out of curiosity, what is the 
> lowest tone you typically produce in a show? The low E on a guitar? If 
>so, 
> then even one sub might be more than you'll need in order to get your 
> point across! ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>