Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?

[Dan Ash <Daniel.Ash@Verizon.net>]

Coming to this party a bit late, but the response to Rick's comments 
about his art and commerce has me confused.  I must be missing something 
here.

I think the music video for 'Money for Nothing' by Dire Straights & 
Sting goes straight to the issue - " That ain't woikin' ". 

The distinction between !value! and $value$ notwithstanding, the fact 
that American society has de-valued music specifically and art in 
general reflects a cultural pit that we've fallen into.  I'm personally 
encouraged by people like Rick who refuse to allow their inner spirit to 
be dampened by commerce and the 'dumbing-down' of the masses. 

We've got list members right here that can attest to the fact that music 
*is* a healing art.  We've got others on the list that remember when 
powerful music brought American youth together and said 'NO!' to a war 
in Southeast Asia.   We have many others right here that have been told 
their art helped people through crises much as a sympathetic family 
member might. 

And those of you that can teach are planting the seeds of ideas that 
have the potential to liberate the young person that feels like they're 
'outside looking in' or another that will come up with the next 
non-linear discovery of some universal truth. Or how learning to play is 
building brain power available for other pursuits.  I happen to believe 
that this is how art works.  That its power isn't universally 
acknowledged speaks to what I consider one of the big problems in 
American culture.  

The fact that artists/musicians are often outside the mainstream of 
popular thought is why they make easy targets for exploitation.  Club 
owners have always viewed the world this way - but they have always 
acknowledged that music brings people together and putting on a live 
show is a specialized skill.  The modern DJ has interfered with this 
calculus, but in some clubs they just can't compete with live 
entertainment.   

The cliche of the 'starving artist' has always been a truth - and now 
more than ever - but I have always envied those able to make that 
commitment.

Dan Ash
White Plains, NY


> Subject:
> Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
> From:
> "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
> Date:
> Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:37:37 -0700
>
> To:
> "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>
>
> Warren wrote:
> "I'm sorry Rick, while I respect you immensely, I gotta come down with 
> Travis on this (who I think you've been a bit rude to), but maybe 
> phrased differently: people of limited means, as most people are, tend 
> to spend most of their money on things they perceive that they *have* 
> to spend money on - food, shelter, medical care, etc. Musicians are a 
> category of discretionary spending, so we tend to make less. I think 
> Travis is using "useful" to mean an "unavoidable expenditure".
>
> I hear what you are saying Warren, except to mention that
> my intention was never to be rude to Travis and if he perceived my 
> comments as rude I apologize, profusely.
>
> But the problem I see is not about the way things are as you so 
> adroitly point out, but more about the way they are percieved.
>
> Of course, I can't make much of a living anymore as a professional 
> musician after being one of the most successful professionals in
> my local area for 25 years.............that's just the way it is,  I 
> agree. What upsets me is that a lot of people begrudge that I'd even
> aspire to it.   That's a shocker and why I responded so strongly to 
> Travis' original posting.
>
> Warren wrote:
> "Whether you respect what you do or not or are bitter or not about 
> this reality doesn't change it, and one shouldn't have to wear 
> blinders in order to be PC about this. Of course music has value. Of 
> course musicians should be well-compensated. Of course Bush should 
> have been drawn and quartered 6 years ago. This is not a perfect world."
>
> There are lots of things that are true about life that suck horribly, 
> Warren:
> the world is overpopulated and increasingly so.
> human beings are eroding the quality of the ecosystem on the planet.
> western and western styled  economies are beginning to fail.
> music and art seem to have rapidly decreasing respect amongst the 
> populance
> (at least where I live to be frank................according to Per and 
> Rainer, this is NOT the case so much in their respective countries).
>
> This doesn't mean that it is right or that it is good or that we 
> should champion 'what is'  just because we can't change it.
> A large part of why the world is in a tough place currently is because 
> people have let it become that way.
>
> Maybe I"m just an old fart hippy activist, but I say,   "Fuck that".
> I think art and music are worth fighting for.  I think respect for 
> artists and musicians is worth fighting for.
> If I'd just been resigned to 'what is'  then I would have never led so 
> many campaigns against the laws
> our city council and police department put into place, limiting the 
> ability for musicians to play in public.
> If I'd just been resigned to 'what is',  the we wouldn't have 
> sacrificed so much to get the looping festivals started
> and up and running.      Hell,  they lose money hand over fist and I 
> can't pay practically anyone for their performances.
>
>
> I guess I come from a more idealistic
> older era, but I do get angry when the arts are continually 
> hurt............when they are increasingly not supported by 
> institutions , the general
> populance and even the artists themselves.
>
> There just  seems so much resignation amongst young people (and a lot 
> of musicians that I know).
> There also seems to be an increasing intolerance to people being angry 
> about the way the world is going.
> 'Whatever, dude' ,   "don't make waves'  seems to be the order of the 
> day.
>
> I grew up at a time (the late 50's and  60's)  where music was almost 
> revered by my generation and I'd be lying if I didn't say that
> it's painful to me, emotionally speaking,  that newer generations seem 
> so cavalier about music.........................as if music is only
> a product and not a way of life (as I see it).
>
> I don't even have a problem with the fact that the paradigm is 
> shifting radically.    If I was young and starting over again, I would 
> NEVER become a professional
> musician in the current climate.      I do 'art' gigs that I made a 
> living off of as little as 5 years ago for free all the time now.
>
> What I find shocking, however, is that musicians are the ones who seem 
> also to not put value on music's worth in our culture.
> That's why I was so forthright in what I wrote back to Travis.
>
> Also, if you'll read my original post, I was very explicit about 
> asking him if this is the way he felt.   I even wrote that I was 
> assuming things and wanted to check it out
> because I read a tone in his message that was disturbing to me.
>
> Again,  if I offended, I apologize profusely.   It wasn't my 
> intention, honestly.
>
> And in conclusion, though it seems rather unpopular, I  think that 
> there is nobility in committing oneseful to a life of art.
> In a way,  besides the art itself,  it may be the only currency left 
> for artists, emotionally speaking.
>
> This attitude bugs a lot of people I've discovered but that's the only 
> way I know how to keep going as things get tougher to make a living.
>
> I know it's not a popular attitude anymore.   I'm aware that I"m out 
> of step with reality................so be it.
>
> If someone doesn't agree with me,  it's not going to change my mind on 
> the subject and I know from reading the responses to
> a lot of this thread that there's no hope in changing anyone elses 
> mind about it either.
>
> So be it.
>
> Hope to see many of you at Y2K8 or on tour in Europe and Britiain this 
> summer.
>
> respectfully,   just agreeing to disagree,    Rick