Re: Tuning guitar in fifths for wider orchestration options

[Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>]

Great post, Marc! You actually said what I was trying to say - "your
fingers have to be faster than your brain but your brain (and ears)
has to stay in command".

Sorry about appearing patronizing, even though talking to "a brick"
;-)  That interpretation of my post reminds me that I need to work on
refining my English more. I guess my English fingers are faster than
my brain...

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
www.perboysen.com



On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 1:02 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> 
wrote:
> I DO see what you mean Per, and i have had similar experiences in 
>regards to
> my Piano education. As a kid I was taught from age 4, reading the little
> black dots, playing the keys.. and learning scales. By age 9 I was grade 
>8
> (UK levels thing... dunno what it means really) and COULD NOT IMPROVISE A
> NOTE... Found rock and roll, got a guitar, started teaching myself...
> improvising, and promptly forgot all my piano! ... and have many 
>theory's as
> to the wrong way of teaching an instrument now...
>
> BUT...
>
> I must say that your response is a tad... um obscure... (and not a little
> patronising... altho dont mind me... I LIKE it... Im a brick).
> I think for you to improvise truly with your instrument, you have to...
> er... be at one with its neck...(man) have some routes around it, that 
>you
> don't "know to be true cos you have analyzed the structure of the tuning
> system" but "FEEL to be true, cos thats where your fingers go...!"
>
> Just cos I know that a note played 2 stings across and two notes up is an
> octave, doesnt mean that I play the same on the 3rd string as I do on the
> 1st...
>
> I suppose I play guitar based on what I read about Micheal Karoli from 
>Can ,
> his approach was to play free and loose, letting his fingers go where 
>they
> will, but within the contraints of what his fingers had learned. I am 
>not at
> all interested in the atonal scrabblings of free improv jazz guitarists, 
>i
> think its boring, but to improvise freely without restrictions on melody 
>and
> structure, but creating music WITH melody and structure, then I need my
> fingers to work faster than my brain... and my fingers do that... now... 
>For
> me to start with a new tuning now, I could get some theoretical and tonal
> exitement from that, very much so... but it would be brain powered, not 
>body
> powered.
>
> But I DO want to try... maybe Im taking shit...!
> Im gonna give it a go... I have a spare guitar, and Im gonna tune it 
>to...
> what?
>
> What are the specific string tunings for this 5ths system...?
>
>  Im gonna tune like that... and start recording... watch this space!!
>
> mark
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Marc,
>>
>> I think the guys that experiment with different tunings don't really
>> "think" the music as "an instrument". We rather think the the music as
>> the notes; I mean, according to a key, a scale (not "guitar neck"
>> scale but the real sounding scale, the vibreations) and a tonal
>> center. If you think music like that, all you have to do is to find
>> out "where on this new instrument are the octave, the fifth" etc etc.
>> Soon you're off playing your usual stuff with the new instrument's
>> special touch options.
>>
>> To learn an instrument as "I put my finger down here to get this note"
>> is a mistake IMHO and I'm amazed that music schools still do that to
>> kids. You should learn instrument by first learning a melody of let's
>> say three notes. Then you find out how to play that melody on the
>> instrument.
>>
>> Greetings from Sweden
>>
>> Per Boysen
>> www.boysen.se
>> www.perboysen.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:44 AM, mark francombe 
><mark@markfrancombe.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I've been watching this tread with grrat interest, I think its amazing
>> > how
>> > so many of you have experimented with tunings, and have of course 
>tried
>> > some
>> > things myself on spare guitars, for effects. (Like for example the
>> > tunings
>> > that Rick mentioned, about tuning the whole guitar to one note for
>> > groovy
>> > droning noise stuff etc).
>> >
>> > What really amazes me however is... do you guys reall RE-learn all 
>your
>> > scales and chords for all these different tunings?  I mean, if you 
>tune
>> > to
>> > this 5ths approach... how do you play a chord!!! Its taken me 33 years
>> > (since I first got a guitar) to learn a few girl guide chords, and a
>> > couple
>> > of bar chords.... one (ok two) scales, that I can slide up and down...
>> > but
>> > the thing that has stopped me REALLY getting into tuning is this... 
>Do I
>> > really have to forget what I ever knew... and dedicate my life to a 
>new
>> > tuning????
>> >
>> > I myself have been using baritone guitar for 10 years, with a A based
>> > tuning, this gives me the LOWS I need for bass parts, and I use a lot 
>of
>> > pitch shifting, and can go high enough... but this is still standard
>> > tuning
>> > basically, just tined down a bit...
>> >
>> > Have to try out this 5ths thing
>> >
>> > m
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Charles Zwicky 
><cazwicky@earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Per Boysen wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Anyone here on the list having tried tuning a guitar in fifths for
>> >>>> wider orchestration options? Or even wider intervals? Would make
>> >>>> sense
>> >>>> when looping to get lower bass and higher highs. I guess you have 
>to
>> >>>> pick a custom string set for this.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Greetings from Sweden
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Per Boysen
>> >>>> www.boysen.se
>> >>>> www.perboysen.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I have been tuning in straight fifths for  the past 15 years or 
>so....
>> >>
>> >> http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/zwickrig.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ...
>> >> http://www.zmix.net
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > www.markfrancombe.com
>> > http://vimeo.com/user825094
>> > http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe
>> > http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe
>> > www.looop.no
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe
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> www.looop.no
>