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Re: Dig if U will our live looping flame war

>Matthias Grob, on the other hand, seems to have a very specific
>collection of aesthetic and philosophical guidelines for what he defines
>as "live looping."  In his words (as I understand them, anyway) there
>are certain ways this music begins and develops, and certain
>mental/philosophical states that are induced in both the player and the

I was going to answer exactly this:
>I can't help but wonder how Matthias' specific aesthetic guidelines for
>"the live looping style" will mesh with Rick's all-inclusive
>communalism, but I'm certainly glad to see two such fantastic
>musicians and thinkers pooling their efforts.  If they can reconcile these
>two different attitudes amongst themselves, perhaps that will help
>clarify the whole "live looping music" issue for the rest of us.

So you made me think that the fact that a group of 10 rather 
different members has to agree on the presentation (I dont think 
there will be a definition) makes sure that not a singles ideals will 
dominate. A bigger group may make it even more acurate, but the 
process grows in complexity, so it may become unrealistic.
It turns hopeless as soon as members are included that dont believe 
in or are against the process.

Nevertheless it would be extremely helpfull for me, if you could list 
up my guidelines here, because I am not sure how people see me and my 
efforts to characterize our way to create music and helping to it...
I hope I have been rather suggesting than imposing...

>vast array of styles involved), and at worst they'll develop biased
>assumptions about what it can or cannot be (due to only hearing one
>example, and assuming that IT is what "looping" is.)

I know you are not speaking of your opinion here, but let me profit to say:
no "kind" of anything can be understood by one example.
as soon as you have two examples, what is in common *might* be the kind.
If our public does not know this, we cannot do anything about it, but 
I dont think people are that dumb...

>Kim and I seem to be on the same page in terms of how he and I look
>at looping: it's a means to an end, but not the end itself.  It's the
>starting point, not the destination.

I dont know what you mean by looping being the destination. We all 
make music, and for me not even the music is the destination but what 
it does to people... or not even that... hard to say...

>says to me that our commonalities are being highlighted at the
>expense of giving our individual voices the room to really shine.

This is the case for any common effort. Your point of view is the one 
of a soloist or whatever you just called yourself. There is nothing 
wrong with it, a monk may be as efficient as a polititian :-)... but 
for me, doing it together and learing to give in somewhere and insist 
somewhere else is fundamental... and actually the way I learned 
music, since I only had a teacher for a year when I was seven...

>The end, for me, is getting my own voice as a solo player heard.

I bet you soon will discover that this is not the end for you, at 
latest when you reach there. I dont think there is an end... just 
purposes on different levels, appearing depending on mood and 

>So, to answer my own question: what am I trying to promote?  My own
>music as a solo player.  How am I trying to promote it?  By presenting it
>to audiences who might have an interest in it.  That includes people
>who are into looping, but it also includes fans of dance music, hip-hop,
>IDM, "guitar" fans, and the complete strangers who have responded
>very favorably to what I've done, who happened to be at solo gigs at
>rock clubs and coffee shops which weren't billed as "looping shows" at

So its not that anyone excludes you, but you want to go your own way.
Thats fine, I wish you luck and I really belive you can make it!

>if a mailing list of a few hundred dedicated looping
>enthusiasts can't find a way to agree on what "loop music" is, then is it
>really a good idea to try and promote that concept (whatever it is) to the
>world at large?

good point!
I hope the rest of the world will not be that sensible and 
emotionally involved in the question and thus be happy to simply get 
an idea about it and from there on follow what we do and select the 
CDs and shows the will want to assist... :-)

          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org