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OT! Re: Vox Tonelab for looping (reply from Vox about high freq issue)

On Jun 17, 2004, at 4:33 PM, thetoyroom@comcast.net wrote:
> Regardless, it seems from my experience that the biggest complaints  
> about these modelers are from the high gain patches.  Is there  
> something about the experience of hearing a high gain amp breathing  
> through a speaker cab struggling to move that much air that can't  
> really be modeled at this stage of technology?  something a bit more  
> visceral?  hmmmm....

All I really wanted to say is that I think this is a cool tool for  
someone who wants an 8 sec looper and a lot of good guitar sounds.  You  
just have to budget in an EQ if you plan on using it through a full  
range speaker system.

You're right in the sense that when a speaker is cranking away at loud  
volumes the actual material of the cone is surely deforming in subtile  
ways that no "modeler" is even attempting at this point.  I don't think  
they are at least.  That sounds like a *lot* of math.  Math is hard!

I'm OK without being that accurate in my little world.  What I lack in  
"reality" with amp modeling, I more than make up for in variety and  
portability.  On the other hand I have to say that with the Tonelab  
(Probably the Pod as well) there really is an issue.  My guess is they  
made this with the 90% of people who will use it in front of an amp in  
mind.  When they put in the "line" output, they didn't spend as much  
time making sure the output was appropriate for a full range speaker.   
I haven't done a frequency analysis as you mentioned, but in a sense I  
did one when I pulled down a graphic EQ fader at 15 khz and it made a  
BIG difference.  It shouldn't.  Look at the specs of a popular guitar  


They spec it to 5.5 khz on the high end because after that there is a  
pretty steep falloff.  It's a natural attenuation of high frequencies  
due to the physics of not being able to move a large mass fast enough.   
That's why tweeters are small and often even cooled due to the heat  
they can generate.  Guitar amps don't have tweeters because amp cabinet  
designers figured out a long time ago that the frequency range of an  
electric guitar didn't extend that far up so a 10" or 12" speaker was  
fine.  A lot of what you're getting rid of is pick attack and string  
noise/fret noise.  With a high gain pre-amp situation, you're going to  
generate harmonics all over the place, so the cabinet's natural  
attenuation of high frequencies is crucial for making sure your sound  
is "warm" and not shrill.  That "warmth" is really a lack of fidelity,  
but in a good way.  So Vox is right in saying that most people who've  
bought their product have not complained.. but I bet most are using it  
with a guitar cabinet.