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Re: The Dark Side of Live (Ableton) and the goodies

It may be a matter of tweaking audio chunk processing relative to your
set. If you have some spare CPU head room, perhaps try a higher sample
rate and larger buffer size. I know 128 is prob the minimum concerning
latency but you can take a rather unorthodox approach and use the
drive compensation error function; granted that is not what it is
there for.

This article from SOS may be of help:


On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
> 128 samples in the host. Sometimes I go with 256 in Bidule (only to
> save CPU tax), but that's a bit too much latency for my taste. In
> Mobius I don't set any buffer these days since I don't use it in
> standalone mode any more, only as a plugin.
> The drop-outs of Live (in slave sync mode) I mentioned probably has to
> do with its plugin latency compensation. It used to be active when
> running in master sync mode but not in slave sync mode. Following the
> evolution of Live (since starting to use it at 2.0) t seems to me that
> these late drop-out issues have come with Live's increased CPU
> efficiency. So maybe it is a logical trade-off from the new code?
> Mainstage and Bidule doesn't do any plugin latency compensation
> because they are designed only for real-time stream processing.
> Greetings from Sweden
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Ricky Graham
> <rickygrahammusic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What buffer size are you running at when looping?
>> R
>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> well, I used the word "click" with no further explanation but I guess
>>> what I meant was more like "pre recorded". You know, "the click"
>>> doesn't need to be rhythmical. In the duo with Erdem we do concerts
>>> using our whole album as "the click" to improvise around. I found a
>>> Max For Live "visual metronome" that blinks the tempo for the parts
>>> where "the click" flows non rhythmical.
>>> Per
>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Todd Matthews <gtmatthews@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> Per, playing to a click! Woah. I never thought I would read that 
>>>> statement. It does like a good idea though to make yourself work in a 
>>>> new way.
>>>> Thanks for the reports. I've been doing a bunch of experimenting with 
>>>> my looping setup lately(In Mainstage as well) so I will definitely 
>>>> give Live a solid test run again.
>>>> --------------------
>>>> Todd Matthews
>>>> toddbass.com
>>>> twitter: gtodd876
>>>> On Apr 14, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Per Boysen wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I just want to report on my happiness and frustration with using
>>>>> Ableton Live as my looper host. On the happy side is that I'm finding
>>>>> Live 8.3 way more CPU efficient than my other two usual host
>>>>> applications Plogue Bidule and Mainstage. The dark side is that Live
>>>>> is no good when slaved by MIDI Clock to a hosted looper plugin. This
>>>>> setup causes regular audio dropouts. That's not fun since I'm a big
>>>>> fan of "trash-looping" where you instantly delete and rebuild the 
>>>>> loop
>>>>> during a performance, resulting in constant tempo changes. I've done
>>>>> many tests and it just doesn't work in Live. So I'm now trying to
>>>>> learn how to adapt to the click and still stay creative with my
>>>>> looping. But there are other goodies in Live - one important fun
>>>>> factor is that you can bring in sequencing and set up random scripted
>>>>> slicing of canned loops playback along with the live looping. And the
>>>>> option to record multiple channels at 24/48 suits me fine (Bidule can
>>>>> do that too). Thanks to Max For Live I found a good tuner plugin as
>>>>> well, which comes in handy with a 12 stringed instrument :-)  and I
>>>>> have also discovered that Live's own "Amp and Cabinet" plugin sounds
>>>>> ok for Stick and guitar. Not as good to my ears as the Amp Designer 
>>>>> in
>>>>> Mainstage and not as good as Amplitube 3 but in the recent version
>>>>> Amplitube 3 tends to crash host applications or render saved 
>>>>> documents
>>>>> corrupt.
>>>>> Bottom line is I'm happy with Live now.
>>>>> I'm also fine with saving the wildest sessions for Mainstage.
>>>>> Mainstage is less CPU efficient but as long as you stay under the red
>>>>> zone it works flawlessly as a slave, MIDI Clock synced host
>>>>> application for a looper. You can just trash everything in Mobius and
>>>>> start a new loop while the music is going and Mainstage smoothly
>>>>> adapts to the new tempo without an audio glitch while you hear all
>>>>> delays and termolo stuff slowing/speeding into the new tempo. Very
>>>>> cool. I will miss that in Live. Live may become my suit-and-tie-job
>>>>> host app and Mainstage my party-on host ;-))  Nothing bad in that, as
>>>>> long as you are aware about it.
>>>>> Greetings from Sweden
>>>>> Per Boysen
>>>>> www.perboysen.com
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen