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I use a counting method with a guitar (could be any instrument, though) & delay, which may be of interest, so I will try to communicate it here: Set delay to repeat only one time (ie. feedback at minimum), with a delay ~700 - 1000 ms (any longer can be done but it gets tricky). For this discussion I will use a 750 ms delay. (To get the feel for the delay time, I usually start out strumming muted strings, with quick, sharp strums). Break the delay time into an integer number of beats -- lets say 3. So, for this case strum every 250 ms. Now, play notes, instead of strum. Play a 4 note, repeating meoldy (ie. repeats every 1000 ms). Let s say the meoldy is DO RE ME FA. So, if we write the pattern on a time scale we get (you might need to stretch your window size to view this correctly): TIME 0 250 500 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 BEATS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 PLAY DO RE ME FA DO RE ME FA DO DELAY DO RE ME DO RE This creates an interesting harmonizing relationship between the performed notes and the delays. Now, play the notes of the melody on every 2nd beat (ie. half as fast), so you get: TIME 0 250 500 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 BEATS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 PLAY DO RE ME FA DO DELAY DO RE ME This creates an interesting "dynamic" pattern between the performed notes and the delay, like a question/answer type thing. Many of you probably get these rhythms, without counting it out. But counting it out has helped me to get some more complicated rhythms, that I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. To communicate the pattern, I could use 3 numbers: Number of beats per delay time Number of beats between performed notes Number of notes in (repeated) melody So, for the first example, I would write it as (3, 1, 4). For the second example, I would write it as (3, 2, 4). It is the relationship of the first two numbers that creates the rhythmic quality. The third number will just affect the harmonic relationships, not the rhythmic relationships I have really enjoyed trying some more complex rhythms: (Let X = 1, for starters, ie. just repeat one note, or strum) (4, 5, X); (5, 4, X); (3, 5, X); (5, 3, X); (5, 2, X); (2, 5, X); (6, 5, X); (5, 6, X) ....etc. Some of these are tricky to play. It's easier with a sequencer and a delay that you can "dial in" the exact delay time. I just use a Jam Man though. For the larger first numbers, I use longer delay times. If the first number is 8 and my delay time is 1600 ms, I might strum every 800ms, then every 400 ms, then finally every 200 ms -- instead of trying to break 1600 ms up into 8 parts right off the bat. I hope this wasn't too confusing.....(or too anal)! - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov ---------------------------------------