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Apologies if this has been dealt-with previously, but in terms of early-day loopers, have you considered the case of (church) bell ringing? I was visiting friends in the north-west of England at the weekend, and was struck by the possible synergy of bell ringing/looping as I passed a bridal party outside the main church in Macclesfield, where the local campanologists(sp?) were `giving it loads'. A bit ramshakle (in a pleasing way) to my ears (as phrases moved around in time seeming to stretch and contract smoewhat randomly), I had a quick search on the Web and found the following page: http://www.spec.gmu.edu/~msorell/bells.html which gives some info on how the peals are constructed. I'll not copy it here in case this is too far from what everyone's interested in (plus good old copyright concerns), but it might well be worth a visit to those interested in the polyrhytmn/in-&-out of sync debate. PS there was also a man playing bagpipes down the road from the church, but I'm not prepared to get into that right now - love those drones, though... David david.orton@bl.uk `Those Orton Leaves': http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/