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hey all let's not forget the ever present gear source known as the used market - there are quite a few older units that loop from over the last 12 or 15 years - i own 4 of 'em - a 2 sec digitech footpedal, an 8 sec digitech ftpdl (mentioned here as being Frisell's main stage box) , a digitech rack mounted "time machine 7.6 sec" which loops with modulation, invertable feedback, trigger & external pitch change control (these are a stellar find if you can), and finally a korg sdd2000 - these let you loop for about 3.5 sec I know these aren't huge times - but i come up with endless stuff with these - and there are others - we have to encourage people to buy used stuff anyway - we're generally getting screwed on new stuff. How come every other electronic/electric product has come down in price relative to other items - EXCEPT FOR musical equipment, huh. hmmmm. can you spell - 'captive/complacent audience...?' BTW I saw Frisell with Vernon Reid do a duet with guitars, and lotsa gear in Dec 95 at Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM) It was great - check out their 1985 album on RYKO... but the point was - Frisell did use the jam man on stage that night - i've seen him maybe 30 times in the last 4-5 years and it was the only time he wasn't using the little digitech box. peace - andre