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Dear Infinite Repeaters, Yes Kim! I agree, gear is not always fab. As a matter of fact their are only two kinds of gear: the kind you aready have, and the kind you can't afford. Decisions are made for fiscal not musical reasons by the manfacturer and musician alike. In the beginning ,a 32 second Jamman with a 2nd footswitch could be got for about 500$, while the Echoplex DP (52 sec+ per Malcomb at Oberheim) was 949$ . If you didn't have 949$ or had already purchased a Jamman it was quite a stretch to rationalize the means to obtain 20 more seconds and yet unrealized (by you) aspects of function. Every box that qualifies as a "looper" has a unique collection of electronic parameters that constitute it's construction, function, and interface reality. The difference between twisting a knob on a stompbox to modulate your captured "second' of sound and deciding where to insert a phrase in the midst of your 198 sec. orchestral wash, can be as radically different as the living circumstances of the box owners themseves. This "duality of the loop reality" coupled with the fun of looping as an international, but somehow secret, society make this list as viable as it is. The learned comments and future spyings of the industry folks who contribute to this list are important to honestly appreciate where the state of the art is in reationship to our "loop" desires. Every loop, from fractions of a second long on up, is unique, some even beautiful. Many are pieces of music that could not be easily ,if at all, replicated through an ensemble performance of like instruments, even given a compositional reference. The LD Webpage profiles suggest a 40 year range of ages in loopers and just as many styles of music being loopified. People with sizeable setups and studios, or folks with a box or two, trying to verify sightings from loopland and share stories of a musical reinvention. Sure sometimes it's alot of technical blahblah especially if you don't own the specific device in mention, but without the boxes we're at the point of playing music that may be constructed to resemble looping but will never equal it. Even multi-tracking, while strongly related, offers a truly different process and result than looping( I believe looping is good preparation for muti-tracking, and vica-versa). Popular music of all kinds is utiizing loop based sound production techniques on an increasing level, with arguably good and bad results musically , but as was the case with the synthesizer, slowly but surely introducing a sound texture to the point of acceptance by the pop audience, which learns to love every sampled "sound circle" with the same reverance once reserved for a Strat through a Marshall stack or any of the countless combinations of instrument and audio processing/recording tech- niques that have become this or that artists signature sound. There coudn't possibly be a more self-aware group of players musically in the world than loopers. Will a market driven interest for more advanced and affordable loop devices develop as with synths once?... will current manufactrers be able to improve their product line regardless of future sales prospects?....will the upgrades around the corner, fufill our exectations?....will loopers unite to organize regional performances,recordings or a global gathering?....will industry be interested enough to join such a gig?...the answer to these and other issues of loopness are likely to be found in only one place. As far as a new thread goes...here goes. I understand that David Singleton has taken some of R. Fripp's loops and transcribed them for choir. I know little else of his method, nor have I heard the result, but I'm curious if anyone else is evolving like projects, privately or otherwise. Me myself...I'm messing with acoustic piano loops and learning to Vortex a go-go in the midst of summer vacation with the wife and kids. Anyway........ Bryan Helm Still...Techno-Primitive Tantrum Boy