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jmw wrote, > Actually, I'm not kidding. I've done a fair amount of meditation and I've > noticed very similar states of conscienceness after intense listening to > looped material, which is why I made the connection. ok, this might be debatable but there is certainly a spiritual/religious/zen potential in a practice of listening, to loops or just to whatever is there. To get the complete idea, I'd recommend the books of looper Pauline Oliveros who spent years and years researching this. The basic idea is of course that sound is always in the here and now. Listening *completely* to whatever is there in this very moment - breathing, cars, birds - without judging, naming, wanting or rejecting can open up something new. My experience is that in this position, listening to music rather than to natural sounds is more difficult - music tends to transport emotions which are often complex to deal with, and our noisy brains are complex enough and difficult to handle already. Of course, ba sically in a way there is no difference between music and environmental sounds, as John Cage pointed out. * Michael Peters: mpeters@csi.com * escape veloopity: electronic guitar loop music * hop - fractals in motion: strange attractors * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters