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At 12:15 PM -0700 6/10/99, Steve Han wrote: >David, > >Great idea. Upon consolidating the orders, >I propose we discuss improvements to be made >for the newly produced EDPs. >My comments are as follows: Probably they have plenty to do just getting everything moved and set up in a new division. Making a whole bunch of changes at the same time would just slow things down! The last thing that needs to happen right now is for them to spend lots of time and money trying to redesign something that is popular and works fine just the way it is, then you would surely never see it again! (or at least not for a really long time....) What David K. is proposing right now is exactly the right thing to do. If you are thinking about getting an Echoplex now or someday in the future, or if you have one on backorder and are waiting for it, now is a great time to let Gibson/Opcode/whoever know about it. If they see customers out there waiting, they will move a lot faster to get echoplexes on the shelf. Money talks, right? Organizing together in a group like this is a great idea, too - you'll definitely get attention that way. I'd say, get yourself on David's list for this group-buy, if you haven't already. I think there's a pretty good chance that this would secure you a unit much sooner and at a much better price than otherwise! In the past, Gibson (or their dealers) have given some priority to people coming through this list, and we can probably convince them to do the same this time. But I thought I'd try to comment on some of these ideas to help you out and clarify some things: >****** > >"EDPs Input and Output levels are extremely sensitive >and difficult to set visually as each individual EDPs >I/O level settings are at different positions from eachother >to reach the same level setting." > >"This is from reviewing 6 different EDPs consisting >of my 2 EDPs and 4 others owned by friends." The Input/Output gain in the echoplex was changed a while back, because it was originally too sensitive. So this is already done. New units are all done with the same I/O gain as is described for a mod on the Looper's website. It's much easier to set now. So if you have a mix of older units and newer units, the knobs might be in different spots for the same gain. If you do the mod on the website for the older ones, they should be much more consistent. >"BrotherSync is a myth and does not work, showing >'error' message, even with Master to Slave settings." >"This maybe in part my fault from not knowing the >intricacy in manipulating the EDP Sync system but >I can't figure it out from the manual or on a EDP e-group." Are you using the proper cable? 95% of the time people have a BrotherSync problem, it is because they are using a mono cable instead of a stereo (TRS) cable. There is a whole section in the echoplex FAQ about brother sync, which has this and lots of other helpful tips: FAQ main page - http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html Brother FAQ page - http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ7.html also, if you have older units, some of the early ones tended to give that ERR message if you had 4 or more of them connected with BrotherSync. New ones shouldn't have this problem. Even with the old ones, you can usually just flip it off and on and its ok. > >"Sync-ing with Midi In/Out/Thru works but the sync >falls out of unison after approximately 8 minutes, >fully discernable after about 12 to 13 minutes." Are you using the LoopIIIv5.0 software? All reports I've heard are that midi sync is rock solid with this release, and that's been my experience. You are syncing the echoplex to another device, like a sequencer, right? Is that device's clock drifting a lot? If the other device has it's tempo drift far enough, the echoplex will quit trying to sync to it. But that usually takes quite a bit of drift. Also, do you have the sync parameter set right? Are you seeing the green dot on the display flash when the sync point comes? > >"Foot Controller is very fragile and temperamental." > >"The Buttons (red) of the pedal are made of circuitry >of the cheapest kinds and with the precise timing >the EDP requires for performance, they are difficult to >control with these cheap red buttons which behave >unpredictably at times." I actually tried about 30 different switches around the time we designed this, and found I liked these cheap red ones the best as far as accurate tapping goes. The force required to press them wasn't too much or too little, and I could tell when it contacted. Also, being red made them easy to see. The trouble is, if you stomp hard on them a lot, you can break them. Go easy on it, and it will last a long time. (In fact, you will be much more accurate in tapping if you use a lighter touch....) My pedal has lasted 5 years now, with no trouble. If you do break one of them, they are available from Mouser Electronics (www.mouser.com) and are very easy to replace yourself. With the heavy-duty industrial switches, I found they were often difficult to tap with accuracy, because most required a fairly large amount of force to press them. A lot of them also make loud click sounds when they contact, which I find unnacceptable. And in general, they cost $3-6 each, so if you think the pedal is expensive now, boy would you cry then! If you really don't like the switches used in the production model, you can try some other switches and replace them with ones you like. As I said, it's very easy to do this modification. Also, it's very easy to make your own pedal, the instructions are on the LD web site. Otherwise, the pedal is made with good sheet metal construction and point-to-point wiring. It should be quite rugged. > >"The maximum EDP capability of 198 seconds >should be Standard for all newly produced units." Now that the cost difference between a 4MB simm and a 1MB simm is pretty small, I imagine they would do this. Such a thing already happened once...the echoplex originally shipped with 12.5 seconds installed, with a 50 sec version for quite a bit more money. (and of course, you could upgrade it yourself to the full 198.) When the memory prices dropped, they just sold it with 50 seconds installed at the price where they had sold the 12.5sec version. It's probably at a good point to make such an adjustment again, and I would guess that they will do that sooner or later. >"Most local Music Stores want to charge arm and a leg >for a unit of EDP and if you want the pedal with it, they'll >try to milk you for another $100 to $125." that's called capitalism.... I'm pretty sure Gibson didn't invent that one...:-) > >"Taking minimum 3 months to receive one from Gibson, >only the true, dedicated loopers will order EDP while >the EDP's capability can be marketed to the general >musician and when advertised smartly, it can become >a must have for every serious musician." that I think is a true statement! they just need to make them consistently, and everything will follow, peace will reign, etc.... >"The price of Echoplex Digital Pro are prohibitive." >"Mid $500.00 to mid $600.00 seems reasonable, >which should include the pedal as part of the unit." again, capitalism..... Demand is much higher than supply, so I wouldn't expect any dramatic price reductions to happen. Although, street price for the echoplex usually seems to be in that $600 range (not including the pedal), which I think is a pretty good deal. Besides, given that low-end samplers and good effects units are around $1200, the echoplex price doesn't seem high at all given the extensive capabilities and the unique set of features. >The more popular the EDP, the more accessible to us >the price and availability. >Perhaps we should be promoting the EDP to every musicians, >magazines, and music stores we know. > >I know some of us are already trying to promote EDPs >but think of it... >A pair of EDPs in every musician's garage... Good luck to you guys, keep poking those Gibson folks, and they'll do what you want! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com