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Although I've never heard one, I understand that the recently discontinued Korg AM-8000 is capable of the sort of loop mangling wackyness that many people prize in the Vortex. The Korg is probably even easier to find. Here's what dpc had to say..... Subject: Re: DL/AM-8000 vs Vortex? Among the many messages about the Korgs, someone asked: <<I'm intrigued by all of the comments over the years about the Vortex, but was completely unaware of the Korg products until the recent letters.>> I've had a Vortex as well as these Korg pups, so here's my $0.02: There's really nothing like a Vortex--it was uniquely endowed with clever and musical tricks (morphing, odd beat ratios, etc...), and many interface weirdnesses and annoyances, never since duplicated. The Korgs can be similarly described, but the tricks (and weirdnesses) of course are different. The DL's strengths, IMHO, are its delay lengths, the stereo capability, and the preset rhythms in ping-pong multitap mode. I haven't much explored its modulation options, which are pretty rich, because the AM is there to do that kind of thing. IT'S strengths, for me, are modulation and resonance. It's got a good complement of filters, phasers, flangers, shifters, dopplers, mod delays, and ring mod'ers, most of which can really sing, oscillate, and bubble, using lfos built into the algorithms in question. Unfortunately, it has no global lfos, BUT it does have FOUR exp-pedal inputs (seems to require Korg EXP-2 pedals...EV-5s don't work well), and does have pretty good MIDI implementation, as well as mucho routing flexibility--plus the reverbs are not at all bad, and they're in addition to the two identical FX blocks. For more detail on both units, be sure to check out the Korg website, and my reviews of them at harmony-central.com. I believe Guitar Player Mag also reviewed them positively, as did Sound on Sound Mag, which usually has old reviews available at their site. Musician's Fiend is currently selling each one for $350, which is $30 less than best price I had previously found. Retail is $600. Be glad to answer any more particular queries if I can...I don't believe anyone looking for a powerful looper or a creative loop mangler would be disappointed with these badly-marketed tools. dpc ===== John Tidwell __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com