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To add my little reverse thing" I may create a one minute loop, but use reverse multiple times to spend 5 minues just going back and forth between the same 20-30 seconds for a while. Then letting the rest of the loop come through gives me (and the audience) clearer space to build some more. Letting the whole thing pass by a few times at the end helps resolve the overall and recalls the first themes I'd developed. David Kirkdorffer