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the truth is never quite out there when you deal with negotiable pricing. do you actually believe "everything" that salespeople tell you all the time ? you will always get the truth that is convenient for them to give you :) as mentioned numerous times before, the 8th street guys are local and definitely work with the locals who buy from them but they also know when the opportunity is there to get better margins - each and every deal is different there according to the opportunities presented to them. & im not tryin to be petty cause this...well it is getting & sounding pretty petty and very un-needful at this point. i'm just amazed. theres no angle in it for me other than the possibility of getting better price breaks in the future from 8thstreet. and you actually spent over an hour talking with them and analyzing & sympathizing with them over their so called mistake ? wow. that is a heck of a lota time to spend with salespeople shootin the breeze. to each their own unique way. & at this point it looks like there are some better priced alternatives than 8thstreet which is unusual cause 8thstreet ususally cuts mad crazy deals. but luck, timing and pursistence are never accidents. its all comprehensive & related. JP