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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Pask" <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kyma/max
>
>If I had the time and money I'd get both.
>Both are deep apps with strengths and weaknesses.
>I got Max/Msp not knowing about about Kyma.
>
>I think at's also valuable to consider support.
>Get on all the mailing lists and check out the communities which have
>grown
>up around each app.Are they cool for newbies?Is the "parent" company
>actively involved?Do they have a good rep for helping out their clients?
>
>Get demos and try some things out.
>
>Two things I will say for Max/Msp (not really knowing Kyma from a hole in
>the road):
>
>-It happily uses most other good quality I/O hardware without fear of
>conflict, so you can have another major audio app using the same set up.
>
>-There are many people developing some amazing add ons, the NATO
>image/video
>processing package is right out there, blows Videolic away, and the
>networking/cross platform/internet possibilties are getting more powerful
>all the time.
>
>As seems to be the case, no one app will be the magic answer, the solution
>will be some arduously attained and usually uniquely personal setup.
>
>L8r
>
>Andrew
>
>
At 7:14 PM -0400 8/25/00, pvallad1 wrote:
And to confuse the issue even more, I found several examples of folks
using
Max _and_ Kyma, though typically they ran them on separate machines (e.g.
one
Powerbook to act as the Kyma interface, the other to run Max).
Though, I didn't find any examples of folks using Kyma and Max _with MSP
all
at the same time_.
Paolo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Pask" <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kyma/max
>
>If I had the time and money I'd get both. Both are deep apps with
>strengths
>and weaknesses. I got Max/Msp not knowing about about Kyma.
>
>I think at's also valuable to consider support. Get on all the mailing
>lists and check out the communities which have grown up around each
>app.Are
>they cool for newbies?Is the "parent" company actively involved?Do they
>have a good rep for helping out their clients?
>
>Get demos and try some things out.
>
>Two things I will say for Max/Msp (not really knowing Kyma from a hole in
>the road):
>
>-It happily uses most other good quality I/O hardware without fear of
>conflict, so you can have another major audio app using the same set up.
>
>-There are many people developing some amazing add ons, the NATO
image/video
>processing package is right out there, blows Videolic away, and the
>networking/cross platform/internet possibilties are getting more powerful
>all the time.
>
>As seems to be the case, no one app will be the magic answer, the
>solution
>will be some arduously attained and usually uniquely personal setup.
>
>L8r
>
>Andrew
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Traver" <dave_traver@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 6:55 PM
Subject: gr 300
>I would like to use my (just aquired)gr 300 in my loops but I can't find a
>pickup that fits it's strange rectangular connection. Does anyone know
where
>I can find one? Thanks for your help! Dave Traver
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>drfuzz
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Traver" <dave_traver@hotmail.com>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 6:55 PM
>Subject: gr 300
>
> > I would like to use my (just aquired)gr 300 in my loops but I can't
>find
>a
> > pickup that fits it's strange rectangular connection. Does anyone know
>where
> > I can find one? Thanks for your help! Dave Traver
> >
>________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>http://www.hotmail.com
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Ritchford" <tom@swirly.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Cc: "Damon Langlois ( Electrix )" <Damon@Electrixpro.com>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 5:35 PM
Subject: (LONG) MIDI control (for loopers and other devices)
>[sorry... this is very long but I hope quite clear.
> as you can see, I've been thinking about this for a long while... /t]
>
>
>
>GOALS IN WRITING MIDI CONTROL PROGRAMS
>
>zeroth priority:
> ACHIEVABLE. must be able to make it work without too much work.
>
>first priority:
> COMPLETE. as much functionality as possible needs to be
>accessible from MIDI.
>
>second priority
> CLEAR. it should be "obvious" (to a reasonably technical person)
how to
> access these functions from MIDI. More common
>functions need to be
> "more obvious".
>
>third priority
> EFFICIENT. it needs to make reasonably efficient usage of the memory,
> computational, audio and display facilities of the
>machine.
>
>
>DEFINING OUR TERMS
>
>
>A "MIDI command" or just a command is some bit of MIDI generated by the
user
>that's supposed to control the machine (ie, program changes, control
changes,
>pitch bends, NRPNs, system exclusives, etc...)
>
>
>Conceptually, you can think of the machine's controls as having
>a "state". (For the looper's MIDI control, the audio in the machine
>isn't really part of the state.)
>
>You can talk about the state of the whole machine.
>You can talk about the state of a part of the machine, like the state
>of one channel.
>Or, you can talk about the state of a single control.
>
>
>Finally, "internal settings" or "settings" come in two flavours.
>
>Switches have two or more discrete settings, like "on"/"off"
>or "audio/tap/internal".
>
>Dials have "continuous" settings, even though the granularity
>of this might be quite small (or quite large...) For example,
>dials would be "loop time (0.000-128.000 seconds)"
>or "feedback level (1-8)".
>
>
>So, we put together settings (switches or dials) into parts, and
>then assemble the parts into the whole state of the machine.
>
>
>WHAT IS THE PROBLEM AT HAND?
>
>We want to see how to map "MIDI commands" into changes to "internal
settings".
>
>
>
>
>SAMPLE MEMORY IS EXPENSIVE, USER TIME IS EXPENSIVE,
>CONTROL MEMORY IS CHEAP, CONTROL PROCESSING IS CHEAP
>
>Suppose a user command is represented by a (wildly generous) 100
>bytes on average,
>and the user has programmed 1000 commands, surely quite a few.
>
>The total memory consumed here is a measly 100K, or about one second
>of stereo sampling.
>
>
>Users (ie "musicians") are really unable to generate too many different
sorts
>of streams of information while actually using equipment. You can't
generate
>hex code on the fly!
>
>
>Modern processors perform hundreds of millions of operations a second.
>Processing audio takes many hundreds of thousands of operations a second.
>One user has trouble generating a thousand control operations.
>
>This means techniques like "table lookups" or "linear interpolation"
>are essentially "free" (a table lookup on a modern microprocessor might
>take 100 nanoseconds!) and can be used if at all helpful.
>
>
>
>ON WITH IT!
>
>Without further ado, I'll present a nice, simple and general model for the
MIDI
>control of a machine.
>
>
>A LIBRARY OF STATES
>
>You need to be able to recall the state of the entire machine by some
>sort of name.
>It's fine if these names are "1", "2", "3", etc. but text would be nice
too.
>
>
>BANKS OF COMMANDS
>
>Commands need to be organized by banks. (see control processing is
>cheap above..)
>There need to be a lot of banks possible.
>
>Informally, one bank == one song.
>
>
>
>A "bank" of commands describes exactly how "commands" are mapped into
>"changes to the settings".
>
>A bank might conceptually say something like
>
> Program Change 1: recall state 1
> Program Change 2: set record on loop 1 to on
> Program Change 3: set record on loop 1 to off
> Program Change 4: -
> Program Change 5: -
> ...
> CC1: loop 1 output (0-100)
> CC2: -
> CC3: -
>
> PITCH: -
>
>where of course we just don't store the empty areas in a bank.
>
>
>WHY BANKS?
>
>It corresponds to the needs of your average player, where you have
>a limited selection of controls that you need to behave differently
>for different songs.
>
>
>ANY CHANGE CAN BE MADE FROM ANY COMMAND
>
>Remember, your average guy has a few fairly limited control
>sources so if he can only generate, say, program changes, then
>he should be able to set all levels this way.
>
>Banks should be able to handle any MIDI data if at all possible:
>PC, CC, note-on/off, aftertouch, you name it. Seems ridiculous
>but you have to parse the MIDI stream anyway, it's very little
>work to cover ALL the cases at the end.
>
>
>WHAT SORT OF CHANGES ARE ALLOWED?
>
>any list of the following changes:
>
> set state to (value)
> set bank to (value)
> set dial/switch to (value)
> increment/decrement dial by (value)
> toggle switch up/down // loops
>through all possible values
> set dial to (start:end) // maps a
>controller linearly
>
>
>
>SUMMARY
>
>A simple model of any MIDI machine is presented
>where a user sends MIDI commands
>to change the state of discrete switches and continuous dials.
>
>At any time, the machine has a "state" of all its switches and dials.
>The user can store and recall multiple states in memory.
>
>The MIDI behaviour is controlled by a "bank" which maps MIDI commands
>into state changes.
>
>
>
>APPENDIX: SUGGESTIONS FOR ENHANCEMENT
>
>Presets: There need to be some decent "preset banks" that expose the most
> common functions to MIDI and to the most common foot pedals in
their
> initialized format.
>
>This idea pays for the bank idea on its own, if it works "out of the box"
>with "all" the foot pedals "out of the box".
>
>
>The Bank Command: There needs to be a command that goes off when you
>select a bank.
> If the rest of this worked, that would take 10
>minutes to implement.
>
>
>Default Bank: If you had a little extra time, you could have a "default
bank"
> that would be searched if you didn't find the incoming
command
> in the current bank.
>
>Curves for dials: In the case of the "linear values" for the dial, it
>would be very
> nice to have arithmetic maps that would let you remap
an
> incoming controller.
> This sort of thing is very useful because things
>like "velocity"
> or "breath control" (my favorite) are not linear in
nature.
>
>Rev 2.0: In a later rev, once you had this structure, it might not
>be to hard to
> actually create some LFOs, envelopes, other free-running
gizmos...
>
>
>
>...electronic a capella madness <http://volectrix.com>.........
>...extreme internet radio <http://extremeNY.com/radio>...
>
----- Original Message -----
From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Footpedals, Rampant Elitism.
>At 11:54 AM -0700 8/26/00, Your Name wrote:
> >Kim,
> >
> > While your critique of the MIDI versitility is appropriate, I defend
> >the use
> >of the adjective "powerful." When used in conjunction with the GCX
rackmount
> >this unit is great; specifically because of the way the software lets
>you
> >access
> >the rack loops. With the 2.0 ROM update you can assign a pedals to
> >function as
> >indidual loop switches; thus allowing you to create banks that contain
both
> >multi command presets and individual pedal style switches. In a rig
>like
my
> >own, which relies heavily on dumb, non-MIDI pedals, this allows me to
create
> >multi-unit presets with the option of realtime modification.
>
>yes, like I said, it's fine if all you want to do is change patches on
>multi-effects, cause that is all it was designed to do. That's basically
>what you are doing, even though some of the effects are separate stomp
>boxes in your case. The GCX thing is nice, but as far as I can tell it is
>controlled by program change messages which all pedals send. So most any
>midi pedal should be able to work with it just fine, not just ground
>control.
>
>If you want to do other simple midi things, like send startsong/stopsong
>messages to a sequencer or drum machine, trigger samples from a sampler,
>play notes or chords on a synth while you play your instrument, etc., the
>ground control can't do that. You can't even download its program memory
to
>a librarian program on PC and upload it later, so there's no backup. Many
>other midi pedals can do all these things. Since most people interested in
>looping are going to be interested in these types of applications, I think
>a limited midi controller pedal like the ground control is not a very good
>choice.
>
>kim
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint | Looper's Delight
>kflint@loopers-delight.com | http://www.loopers-delight.com
>
>
>
>From: Michael Clark <mcl451@airmail.net>
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Volume Pedal Question
>Date: Sun, Aug 27, 2000, 2:32 PM
>
>Hello Everyone,
>
>With all the hi tech talk that goes on here, my question may seem silly.
>
>I'm recording soft, atmospheric, ambient pieces with an EDP and DigiTech
>2112.
>
>I'm using a RFX volume pedal. One of those cheap deals from Guitar Center
>(is that a hint?).
>
>My problem is that the pedal (or, maybe it's the 2112) isn't "even." I'm
>not able to add expression to the sound because the sound may come up to
>abruptly, or sometimes, not at all. Are the more expensive pedals
>significantly better - smoother? If so, which ones?
>
>I've really spent mega time to get things even and responsive. The quest
>continues.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Michael
>
>
>From: Michael Clark <mcl451@airmail.net>
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Volume Pedal Question
>Date: Sun, Aug 27, 2000, 2:32 PM
>
>Hello Everyone,
>
>With all the hi tech talk that goes on here, my question may seem silly.
>
>I'm recording soft, atmospheric, ambient pieces with an EDP and DigiTech
>2112.
>
>I'm using a RFX volume pedal. One of those cheap deals from Guitar Center
>(is that a hint?).
>
>My problem is that the pedal (or, maybe it's the 2112) isn't "even." I'm
>not able to add expression to the sound because the sound may come up to
>abruptly, or sometimes, not at all. Are the more expensive pedals
>significantly better - smoother? If so, which ones?
>
>I've really spent mega time to get things even and responsive. The quest
>continues.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Michael
>
>
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