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Regarding the 'shark lungs' thread: I didn't follow this thread closely, but IMO, the original sender asked a pretty basic question, that could have been addressed by reading the manual and experimenting a bit. I work in a graphics environment amongst Photoshop professionals. Whenever we have a 'newbie', we try to strike a balance between teaching and giving out handy tricks (and there are plenty in Photoshop, much like the 'tip of the iceberg' learning curve of the EDP), but also stressing that the person needs to dedicate a certain amount fo their time to try it themselves and dig down deep, rather than just looking over their shoulder and saying "hey, how do you do this?". Perhaps the lull in our threads for the last week or so has got us all jumpy and agitated...? and that moves me on to the 'Pianographique': Thanks for your responses to my post. I agree, i am a bit aggressive about sites such as those. They are fun. And there's nothing wrong with that...i gots to remember to have more fun! Some of my aggression stems from my relationship with the Web. I have discovered recently where my distaste stems from. Almost any form of production, art, music, or any other methodology that we use computers as tools to create can be experienced WITHOUT the computer. I can go watch a movie that has amazing digital effects, or i can listen to a cool cd created exclusively on a computer, or look at an incredible landscape painting that isn't real, it's Bryce, or (god forbid) i could even print out my email and look at it at home. On the web however, it's designed on the computer, delivered by the computer, and must be viewed on the computer. That bothers me a bit. And yes, i'm a silicon junkie too...i love my toys, and even the t.v or a cd player is something of a computer, i guess. But the computer, when used as entertainment, is only a slightly less vegetative experience than television, in that you use something more than your thumb. So, thanks again, and forgive me for my bitterness (we haven't heard from Larry Tremblay recently, maybe i'm covering for him?), but i do stand on my "as much substance as cotton candy" statement. I would much rather see an "installation" such as Noah described, with tactile elements that is well done, easily playable and 'interactive' than gaga over someone's Flash skills. best regards, rich