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Since we've drifted onto the subject of drum machines: I saw one of Max Valentino's first looping performances at on of the first Santa Cruz Looping Festivals over a year ago. On that particular night, every artist (there were three) who played used an Alesis SR 16 drum machine to augment their tracks. To give Max credit, he was the only one who radically processed his tracks to get away from that generic "we thought up and recorded these samples back at the end of the 1980's" Alesis sound (great composing machine............whyyyyyyyyyyyy don't they put some hip new sounds into that puppy and yet they continue to sell brand new.........you tell me). With three artists using the same machine, it was, frankly, a little stultefying. Anyway, afterwards, I suggested to Max in an e-mail that he try to exploit his basses for ALL of the sounds that he would use for his 'drum' sounds, knowing, personally, that I would find that more interesting. Well, at this last show, I was blown away to see him take it to heart and I thought the results were very, very cool. If anyone happened to be at both of those performances it would be interesting to see if they had the same feedback. Another interesting thing that I have stumbled upon in drum machine programming for looping gigs: I think most musicians feel that the drum machine, lacking any intrinsic 'energy' of it's own should therefore be augmented by the use of more elaborate programming. I have found the complete opposite to be the case. I have found that the more minimimalist the drum groove, the more that it hints at the 'funk' or 'soul' of the piece. In a way, it's like using more open ended guitar or keyboard chords so that the soloist has a lot more options for soloing, Consequently, I have discovered that as long as 'kick' sounds or substitutes and 'snare' sounds or substitutes and 'hi hat' sounds or substitutes are used, that the simpler the groove is(as long as it gets across the syncopative or non-synocpative rhythm intended) the more effective, the 'drums' are in the piece. If we just basically need low end , midrange (whitenoisey) and treble percussive sounds (a basic drumset) it becomes pretty simple to exploit our instruments for ersatz drum sounds. I once saw a very creative show where the drummer used one large industrial water bottle as a kind of conga. It only produces a bass sound and a snare sound (figuratively speaking, of course) and I never got bored with it during the whole show. Any body have some creative ideas they want to share about their faked drum sounds or percussion noises? One last little aside (if you still are reading): A great source for drum machine sounds are the really cheap and old fashioned analogue pre-programmed drum machine rhythms in old keyboards (casios, yamahas, wurlitzers, hammonds, roland, etc.) Take one of these rhythms (many of which are sampled at the drum computer website: http://www.drummachine.com/newpages/sounds.html and process it with flanger, harmonizers, filters, wah wah pedals, distortions, bad microphones, etc. and you can come up with some very creative percussion ideas that don't sound hackneyed. I have a large collection (25 or so) of these old drum machines and, with the exception of my Roland TR-808 (which I paid $400 for back in the day) I never have paid more than $60 apiece for any single one. Many I have found for $5 or $10 at the local flea market. I love them, but they are all sampled already at the aforementioned site (dowloadable for free). Happy drumming, non-drummers!! Rick (loop.pool)