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Interesting thread here and I have to jump in on this... >Where does showmanship stop and charlatanry begin< That's up to the skills & imagination of the performer. Too many musicians can't get past the "playing" being the performance where in reality the performance is what the audience gets to LOOK at as well as hear. An audience member shouldn't have to care if you're loopng or have other players in a box. They're there to get their rocks off. I agree with Steve, "wear a cape, dress up as queen victoria, paint your nails blue" What about "loop theatre"? I remember back in the 80's Howard Jones performed by himself with a single male dancer warming up for an Eurthymics (sp?) tour. Howard with wireless headset mic, had his keyboard rig on a round riser and went to great lengths to use huge moves to activate various devices and start sequences. In the mean time here is this single male dancer doing all sorts of groovey moves all over a huge stage and at times being joined by Howard in some choregraphed steps while the sequencers carried the music! F*cking marvelous! An entertaining 30 minute+ high energy show put on by a showman musician and a dancer and a pile of drone equipment that contained some great tunes to boot. Nothing a looper couldn't pull off in the same context. Get outside the loop and create a visual show if you want to get beyond the "male, middle class, white, intellectual exercise". My $0.02. Back to lurk mode. Cheers, Toby Gray www.DavidLaFlamme.com www.TheRoadBand.com