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re: RC-20

>> the Line6 pedal is the "DL4". Not LD4 or LM4 or BM4
or whatever other
variations you guys are experimenting with... <<

How about, XP4, just joking <s>.

At 2:14 PM -0700 6/3/01, Bruce Satinover wrote:
>This is correct, but it is very easy to overdub as
>are working, example; I make a loop, I press the left
>footswitch and the RC-20 plays back my previous
>I can tap the pedal as the loop is playing and
>as I see fit.

>> fwiw, I think you missed Tim's point there. He
wants to have the choice to be immediately overdubbing
after he ends record. This technique is commonly used
in textural loops, where you want some sustained sound
to continue from the end of the loop into the
beginning of the loop to make a seamless feel. Also if
you were doing some sort of counterpoint thing, you
want to immediately overdub the second line as the
loop starts repeating.
So you continue to play as you end record enter
overdub, and your playing is continuouly added to the
loop. I think most loopers do this in some way,
and certainly any cheap delay pedal does. It sounds
like the RC-20 can't do this after the first loop
record without introducing a gap in the 
overdub as you tap the button a second time to get
into overdub. That may be a major problem or no
problem at all, depending on what kind of looping 
you want to do. <<

Kim, I did understand the initial question and was
trying to give an alternative to the limitiations of
the RC-20.
As for the Echoplex, it is more complex although far
more developed than most other loopers that get
I have read the digest and understand there are plenty
of units available which is kind of a drag as the
Echoplex was the unit I initially wanted. I tried
several catalog dealers, Guitar Center, Mars online,
and several Chicago area dealers. 
None had stock and almost none knew where to order. I
was getting quotes of 6 weeks for delivery and paying
for the unit up front without trying it.
I've heard what it can do  and wanted one. Imagine how
ironic it is that many units are sitting a few miles
from me but stores do not know the device even exists!

>Again, you need to move up in price to get the
>features you are discussing.

>> hmm, not really. I'm sure they could have done it
on the rc-20 if they thought about it. It's just a
question of how the user interface is programmed to
work. >>

Agreed. In my initial thoughts I was critical of the
RC-20 because of design issues. The statement is
valid, there aren't many loopers that do what was
requested and none I know of that aren't considerably
more money than the RC-20.

>The Echoplex line has
>some nice features but are difficult to find and not
>always the most realtime friendly.

>> I think echoplexes are pretty easy to find these
days, since Gibson is producing a lot more of them now
than they used to. The echoplex is pretty much
entirely designed to be real-time friendly, so I'm not
sure how 
you got that impression. In this case, it is probably
a good example of what Tim is after. <<

I'm sure once you work with it the echoplex does the
job well and with a reasonable learning curve. I'm
really annoyed now that I spent money on the RC-20,
and it's not that I don't like the unit, I do. But I
would have purchased a echoplex had one been available
anywhere I checked. And again, the  6 week quote I got
simply wouldn't work for my schedule. This whole
situations is somewhat frustrating.

>> The echoplex always allows you to transition from
one function  immediately to another with one button
press. You never have press a button to end  one
function then press another button to start the next,
so it keeps the foot-tapping to a minimum. So if you
are recording a loop, you simply end by pressing
whatever function you want to go into. The echoplex
stops the record for you, starts the loop repeating,
and the new function you  want is on, all with one
button press. For example, if you end the record by
pressing overdub, the loop starts repeating with
overdub on. End record with reverse, and it is
immediately reversing, etc. Similar with other
functions, like going from mulitply right into insert
or replace or whatever. To me, that is real-time
friendly, because whatever you want to do you just hit
it and you're there, with only one button tap. The 
machine takes care of all the steps in between for

No argument. It's a powerful machine. If Tim can get
one and it's within his budget it would b ethe way to
go. But Tim didn't mention his budget, just he desire
to use a looper, in this case the RC-20.
So, I agree with you, the echoplex is a great machine,
I don't have first hand experience, only viewing and
listening to guitarists that have it. 
My response was based on having the RC-20 and what, if
anything could be done. If it sounded like I was
slighting any other looper I assure you I wasn't.

One thing I have come to appreciate is how much can be
done with creativity and whatever equipment you have
available to you. Sure you have more options whne you
have top quality equipment (whatever someone on the
list might think) but in the end it is what we do with
the equipment we have. I *thought* I was being
helpful. That was my only intention. I don't have an
agenda or anything like that. I like loopers,
inexpensive or high priced and I like listening to
what people do with whatever it is they use for

Some of the most creative music I made was on terrible
recording equpment and sound reinforcement. I think
when you have to work hard to get a decent sound you
become creative by need.

In any case I hope this clears things up. Also, if
anyone knows where I can buy a echoplex I'd appreciate
knowing where. Maybe I will have time to get one
before we lock in our gigging equipment.


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