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steve, i'll bet that few, if any of the "pro" loopers on this list, including dave t., make a significant amount of their income (or a significant income period...) from live "club" type shows. in addition to club shows, (which usually have dismal, laughable guarantees...) , i play a lot of concerts at colleges and do master classes for the music departments in conjuction with live concerts.it'd not uncommon to get a $1500-$2200 honoriarium and then sell 30-60 cds at a decent college concert. i do make money selling cds at live shows ( and over the internet, with online retailers like amazon.com and pastemusic.com...) and i get royalties on records i've produced for bigger artists that sell more records than i do... i also play festivals in europe which can sometimes pay well and allow for lots of cd sales. my music is probably as popular in europe as in america, and we can play larger, better live shows in western europe than in the us... kind of like the "jazz syndrome" i also had a head start because i had a cult following from a band i played with before i started doing my own music exclusively. that helped get a record deal and radio airplay etc... ( although calling it a head start seems a little like over playing the hand...i'm still very small potatoes compared to big pop folks..) getting your music played on the radio helps, but of course, not everyones music will fit in a "format" it's easier for me because i also have a percentage of vocal music that keeps a lot of doors open...chicks dig it....no really...i'm kidding.... i also do soundtrack work and am starting to write film scores. but i do get a lot of work from folks who have seen me play live. hope that helps. ric hordinski -- monk@fuse.net www.monkmusic.com on 9/30/01 2:15 PM, Steve Sandberg at stevesandberg@earthlink.net wrote: > Interesting reading, this loop on those of us making a living from live > shows. > Question -- this sounds so blunt and naive but -- how do you do it? > I make my living writing for TV, have done some solo shows at the >Knitting > Factory and Guggenheim Museum in NY, but can't seem to get past the "do a > show for my friends and acquaintances" stage -- any hints? >