Re: Soundscapes/Frippertronics debate

[Hedewa7@aol.com]

pbadore:
>Hedawa7 has written:
.....ummm, actually, that's 'HEDEWA7'.

>I did not say that "all loopists" were "attempting" anything!  I'm 
>referring
>to an occasional download from either LD or Elephant Talk by those, like
>me, who have their creative roots in Crim-related material. 
i had no way of knowing to what/whom you were referring, as what you said 
was:

>> >> >I've noticed whenever someone attempts Soundscapes they're really
>> performing
>> >> >Frippertronics.
.....and i tend to take email, literally.

(unless, of course, i missed some previous explicatory missive, in which 
case 
i apologise for being such an ass, again.)

>What I meant was,
>on occasion, when someone features their work as Soundscapes (which, from
>listening to RF's CDs, employs a less repetitious pattern with drastic
>fading after only a few repeats at most) it sounds more akin to
>Frippertronics (which employs constant repetition with almost unnoticable
>fading until you realize it's almost gone several minutes later).  Got
>it?
>Just those people in particular, not the entire looping community! 
again, i understood you to mean 'all' or 'most' loopists, not just those 
arising from the legions of robert's quasi-disciples.

>But, as I implied, I don't have a problem with it; just an observation.  
>No 
offense
>was meant to anyone regarding this; nevertheless, if you have something
>bad up your nose, by all means grab a hanky and blow!
well:
i did!
and will ever continue to do so.....

>And to Chris Muir:  I'm fully aware of the works of Riley, Reich, and
>Oliveiros.  However, no one has brought out this technique to the public
>at large better than Fripp & Eno, for obvious reasons.
hmmmmm...... i'm *really* not sure about that, when it comes to the 
complexity of specifics.

  
>Just as Jimi Hendrix
>innovated electric guitar techniques even though he didn't invent the
>instrument 
hmmmmm......
a misplaced analogy, methinks.

>or D.W. Griffith innovated storytelling in the movies without
>inventing cameras or film (though his praising of the KKK leaves a lot
>to doubt), 
>F&E took this invention and turned it into their own separate
>entities.
while idiosyncratic 'synthesis/incorporation' may well include some 
elements 
& traces of 'innovation', i generally think of the word 'innovation' as 
implying an actual genesis:birth of something 'new';
.....seems to me that it's pretty common in the art/music world for highly 
visible 'synthesisers' to become regarded as innovators, due in large part 
to 
baseline consensus realities created by mass-distributed 'secondary' 
media, 
eg advertisements, magazines, television events, et al, and agreed upon, 
to 
some degree, 'by default': the baseline.
(which also implies that the american concept of 'rugged individualism' 
is, 
well, kinda busted..... at least at the baseline).
*-)
sorry, but:
whaddya think?

storytime:
some years ago, i was playing w/a -errrmmmm- 'major' artist.
we were in rehearsal, and at one point, he was playing guitar;
i approached him to find out the fingering/inversion of the chord that he 
was 
playing.
i said: 'so, what exactly are ya playing, there?'
he seemed to slightly misinterpret my intention, and replied (nearly 
fatuously):
'isn't this a nice chord? i invented it, last night'.
my rejoinder was: 'actually, it sounds like a G-Maj triad over Eb, or an 
EbMaj7, b13, contextually', but
he turned away, non-plussed, obviously self-satisfied with his recent 
invention.


>So I must disagree that RF "didn't innovate" (you'll have to
>refer to your own letter as I've already quoted the above).  He is indeed
>worthy of the term Frippertronics (and, yes, I'm also aware that the term
>started as as joke).
okay, then i'm making 'elecTORNica', from here on out.....
8-)
 
>I also hope Soundscapes is becoming the new
>fashionable term as "ambient" has now lost its original meaning when Eno
>first conceived it.
neither of the  2 terms  has any meaning for me, anymore, personally:
s'just a buncha presumably organised verbal blather, bleached of meaning 
by a 
largely numb audience painfully over-eager to define (and be enslaved by) 
idioms.

to quote rahsaan roland kirk: 'bright moments!'
8-))

<snipping>
>Finally, thanks Mark Sottilaro for your advice and to those who 
>recommended
>the Repeater.  I'm going to try one out now!
have fun!, and don't forget that the edp's a great partner for repeater.
best,
dt / s-c