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some very interesting stuff on the nature of 'loop music' and whether or not such a term has any validity... For me, a few things seem to come to mind in this discussion - obviously, looping has no inherent melodic, harmonic or rhythmic specification, and as such places no strict stylistic boundaries in any of those three areas. And as those are the three main criteria for the majority of musical classification, looping is as broad as musical classification can be, at least as far as the casual listener is concerned. However, what it means to me as a musician is a bit more fundamental, as it's about 'sound' - which is even more fundamental (can something be more fundamental? does that just mean that the other things aren't actually fundamental at all???) whatever, looping allows me to think in terms of layers - rather than just thinking 'backing track/soloing', which is where I started with this stuff years ago, it's no a compositional process that uses recorded sound blocks as either notes or samples to be triggered, processed, faded in and out, reversed added to, extracted from etc. etc. the physical possibilities of looping for a single musician are SOOOOOOOOO much wider than for a solo artist just playing their instrument... I wouldn't even dream of playing 6 string fretless as a solo instrument without looping, as the technical focus, and the emphasis on notes is just not what I'm interested at all - the textural aspect gets nigh on impossible. So sonically I'm very liberated by looping. Whether or not the listener is aware of that is largely irrelavent - from a gig perspective it's great as it adds a very visual element; one guy playing bigbig sounds on a bass - but on CD it's either good music or it isn't. I don't play 'loop' music any more than I play 'bass' music - even though both exert a huge influence on what I do. Beyond that, I do think that for me as a listener there is some sort of continuity of concept in loop based music, that of the repetitions making abstract music much more accessible - Andre's cut 'n' paste stuff is way way way more 'poppy' than say Derek Bailey, and a lot of that is the repetition giving the listen a chance to get aquainted with each musical idea and hear it develop, morph and disappear into the ether... I get away with playing some pretty odd harmonies to audiences who wouldn't usually listen to stuff like that, because of the loop element giving them a handle on the journey... Looping also allows me to juxtapose ideas in a way that is a bit more chance based - set up a loop, play some stuff which is then reversed and double-speeded on the DL4 and played over whatever is going on. I haven't reached a point where I can think backwards, so backwards is always a bit random, and the slightly haphazard triggering process on the DL4 means that it'd be very difficult to get things to match up rhythmically in a controlled way... so I don't even try... :o) rhythmic clashes, dual textures overlapping out of sync, post processing of a loop, using feedback to cross fade - all that geeky technical shit has a massive impact on the music I make, regardless of whether the audience knows it or not, but stylistically what is it? the loops aren't what defines my influences as jazz or folk or ambient or ECM or whatever - that's the harmonies, melodies and rhythms - the loops are just a vehicle for me to be able to soundtrack the inside of my head without any other musicians messing it up... :o) I've discovered some fantastic musicians/improvisors/composers on this list - all of whom are great in spite of the loops - Rick Walker and Andre LaFosse in particular have both has a big impact on my music, especially through the many conversations we've had around the subject, and by playing with them. I've nicked ideas from both of them and incorporated them into what I do without turning into a day-glo toys 'n' found sound experimenter or EDP/FSU guitar jedi - technical and conceptual influence that is then recontextualised in my own harmonic/sonic paradigm. looping is the great paradox - of both great importance and utterly frivolous at the same time... :o) cheers Steve www.steve-lawson.co.uk www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk