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man, that is a whole hell of a lot of work, i came upon an easier way to do this with the overdub and riding the feedback pedal whilst changing the phrase times by glitching the cable aginst various things i've found. i also do this with the Digitech units riding the delay in real time via cv either hand or foot controlled. welcome, pf --- Hedewa7@aol.com wrote: > inna nother recent thread, this exchange twixt kevin > g. & mr. flint yielded > kim's EDP-oriented self-definition of 'granular > looping'. > the thread is quoted, herein, w/kim's explication at > bottom: it seemed to me > worthy of repeating to those interested in LoopIV > who mighta missed it. > so: > > At 05:50 PM 6/13/2002, Kevin Goldsmith wrote: > > >Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded > multiply, 8th-quantized > > >substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a > Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang? > > > > >Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be > done on all loopers, but > >it can be done on the repeater > > Sorry, that is not correct. Unrounded Multiply is > not really equal to > "shorten loop". It is a lot more powerful than that. > Unrounded multiply > lets you multiply a loop by an arbitrary amount, set > by where you tap the > start and ending points. It can be shorter or longer > than the original. > While you are creating this new-sized loop, you can > simultaneously overdub > in real time. This means you could create a new loop > that is .87x of the > original, or 3.4x of the original, or whatever you > want. Over the top of it > you could then have a new overdub of this new > length. Since you can start > at any point of your original loop, you can > effectively create a new > startpoint of your loop. > > The original question was about how to start with an > ambient loop, and then > evolve it into a rhythmical loop where the rhythm > may not match up with the > initial loop length. This is precisely the reason > why we invented the > Unrounded Multiply in the EDP, because this is a > very common need. > > The great thing about it is you don't even need to > pay attention to the > loop lengths at all as you are creating this. So for > example, you start off > creating your ambient loop however you like, > creating some texture and > overdubbing on it or whatever. Maybe it's 5 seconds > maybe 8, whatever - > it's ambient. Then gradually as you create it, some > point in the loop > begins to feel like the "beginning", and that is the > point where you want > to start something more rhythmic. This may have no > relation at all to the > actual startpoint of the loop, but it doesn't > matter. At the point where > you want to start the rhythmic section, you tap > Multiply and start playing > the new part. Again, you don't need to pay any > attention to loop lengths, > just your playing. When you reach the end of your > rhythmic bit where you > want to set the end of the loop, you simply tap > Record. Now you have a new > loop that is the length of your rhythmic phrase, > with however much of the > original ambient bed repeated under it as happened > to fit in that space. > This is a very easy and organic thing to do. > > and no, the Repeater does not have a function like > this, and neither does > any other looper. > > In LoopIV, we've opened up new possibilities with > Unrounded Multiplies, > where it has become an important part of doing > LoopWindowing and granular > loops. > > > >8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically > (really replace > >rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it > produces a similar if not > >the exact effect). I've done this on the repeater, > DL4, Headrush and > >Boomerang, I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it > done there too. > > again, you are not understanding the function. The > notion of "quantized" > control versus free or "unquantized" control of loop > functions is unique to > Loop and the Echoplex, which is the only device that > lets you choose. The > repeater does not have any such concept. It's > functions are either > quantized or not, and you do not have a choice. Same > with all other > loopers. I find the Repeater tends towards > quantizing the control actions, > since it tends to be aimed more towards dance music > production where > precise rhythm is important. Most other loopers only > have unquantized > action, where functions always happen immediately. > This tends to work > better in ambient loops, but can be a problem when > you want the tight > rhythmic accuracy. The EDP lets you work either way. > > In LoopIV we have expanded the quantizing > possibilities in some really > interesting ways. It used to be in LoopIII that > having quantize on only > forced control actions to happen at the next cycle > boundary. (in EDP-speak > the cycle is the basic initial loop length set by > Recording the loop, using > multiply or insert lets you create longer loops that > consist of multiple > cycles.) > > LoopIV now has two new values for quantize, 8th and > Loop. Quantize=Loop > means that if you have multiplied the loop, any > functions you do will wait > until the next overall loop boundary instead of the > next cycle. This can be > really practical in use. > > Quantize=8th is interesting because it lets you > subdivide the cycles for > the quantizing boundaries. It actually subdivides > according to the > 8th/cycle parameter, so you can make it anything you > want. The default for > 8th/cycle is 8, so normally it subdivides to 8th > notes. You could just as > easily set it to 4 for quarter notes, or 5 or 13 or > whatever. What this > does is precisely quantize any action you do to the > next 8th boundary in > the cycle. This lets you do interesting things like > replace exactly one 8th > note, for example. Or make sure reverse always > starts exactly on the beat > so that your loop doesn't fall out of rhythm while > going in and out of > reverse. > > Above I think you are trying to imply that you just > do the same thing > manually, which is certainly possible. What you will > find though is you can > never be as precise as the machine (and maybe you > don't want to be.) Using > quantize=8th is great when you do want that machine > like precision. It is > also great when working with very fast tempos, where > trying to tap in and > out of a function in exactly one 8th note is too > difficult. The results of > using this function can sound a lot like using a > step sequencer, and it's a > lot of fun. > > The next confusion you have is over the functions > Replace, Substitute, and > Overdub. These functions have similarities, but they > are not the same. > Everybody knows overdub, that is where you play > something and it is added > on top of whatever is in the loop, and both new and > old remain. Replace is > a very immediate function, where the current loop > audio immediately drops > out when it is pressed, and whatever you play during > that time replaces > what was there. Only the new thing remains. > > Substitute is another new function in LoopIV, and is > also unavailable in > any other looper. Substitute is similar to replace, > except the current > audio in the loop doesn't disappear while you are > playing the new bit. You > still hear the existing stuff as you play, which can > be very useful for > maintaining the feel, or giving a sense of > continuity to the listener. Then > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com