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eye 4 one luv the ball&chain analogy. it defines wot i dew w/ my surfee looping... "locked in' is a surfing term which defines a surfer 2 B in a position where it is impossible to pull out even if you wanted to and to be positioned in the perfect spot on the wave. and thats Y i love the looper t shirt which says something about 100% feedback... s > Oh my, it's some loop philosophy... how can I resist? 8() > > How ya doin', Rick? > > "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" wrote: > >> Matthias (whose music I adore and who I consider a good new friend) >> wrote: >> >> "I just shortly repeat what Kim an me pointed several time at on this >> list: >> With FB constantely at max, the loop turns into a ball on a chain: The >> phrase you started with keeps you in the same mood, you cannot evolve >when >> you feel its time, just revolve, chopp off... ;-" >> >> This can happen, certainly, but there are many ways of making music. >> I, personally, am not a fan of Jazz Fusion as an example, >> but to categorically state that this music keeps you in the same mood >> because I don't happen to enjoy the form is absurd. > > I personally didn't take Matthias' comment as an aesthetic judgement at > all. To me, it's an expression of a technical concern, and a very > important and valid one at that: what do you do with a loop once you've > built up a texture, if you don't have feedback control? > > I would speculate that the comment about "the same mood" is not a > reflection of Matthias' personal listening taste, but rather the > loopists' challenge when working with a loop without feedback: how do > you evolve the texture aside from either overdubbing more and more > layers to it (thereby creating an ever-denser texture), and/or ending it > abruptly (which are the two possibilities Matthias described in his > original remark)? > > Feedback is an incredible tool for this sort of thing, and Matthias' > incredibly fluid and organic style would be unthinkable without it. > It's just like I couldn't imagine doing what I like to do without a > momentary Replace function (and, increasingly, 8th/cycle quantization, > cycle-quantized loop switching, DirectMIDI, etc. etc.) - that's MY own > solution to how I develop a loop and change its direction. (Ironically > enough, I can regularly play a whole concert without ever touching the > feedback control...) > >> I love repetition, personally. I have loved Terry Riley, Philip Glass, >> Hamza El Din, Reggae, et. al. > > I like their stuff too. And I would point to works like "In C" or > "Music For 18 Musicians" as good general examples of the sort of > principle Matthias is talking about: the idea that you can evolve the > loop by fading various elements in and out of the picture, and that over > time, the entire textural content of a basic "loop" can completely > change and evolve, in subtle and organic ways. > >> It's really o.k. if Kim or Mattias don't. But let's keep our >> communications and our aesthetic biases clear. A personal aesthetic >> predilection is exactly that: a personal predilection. It's ok to >have >> them without being judgemental about others. > > I don't believe either Kim or Matthias are opposed to repetitive music - > if they were, they'd very likely find something to do with their lives > other than design looping software! 8() > > And in the case of Kim and Matthias, it's important to remember that > you're talking about two guys who have designed several versions of a > software which is utterly without peer in its particular focus and > design angle. There are things the EDP was doing in its software > version 8 years ago that STILL haven't been duplicated or matched. I > can only imagine how frustrating it must sometimes be to have spent so > much time working on an instrument that's still so underrated and > misunderstood. > > So I'm all for discussing these expanded possibilities, because it > increases the general understanding of the tools of the trade. And it > also allows a fascinating insight into some of the creative corners of > the design process in general. For instance, the EDP's > painstakingly-programmed 127 discreet feedback values assume a > tremendous amount of significance when you see and hear Matthias' > seamless work. Some of the more "out there" Echoplex functions make > more sense when you find out that Kim Flint is a big hip-hop, jungle, > and heavy metal fan. > > I think it's fantastic that there are folks like yourself, Rick, who are > making great music with very simple units like a DL4. But I also think > it's important to make people in general aware of the possibilities that > lie beyond simply recording, repeating, and overdubbing. A lot of these > techniques are not very difficult to use, they already exist in many of > the devices people presently own, and they can open tremendous doors > into different technical and aesthetic avenues. > > It's one thing to choose to work within very tight technical > constraints, the way you have. But it's another thing to be unwittingly > constrained by one's own expectations of the parameters that are > available, simply because they never explored the other options out > there, you know? > >> Everyone is Creative. I think there is a disturbing trend in western >> culture specifically to be perfectionistic and judgemental. >> I think that we, as artists and loopers have a great opportunity to >> reverse this trend (if only in a small,small way) and actively support >> people's creativity. It's all good. > > I agree that it's important to encourage people to do their thing. But > I also adamently feel that it's JUST as important to approach an art > form from a respectfully critical point of view. > > In other words, don't just settle for what's commonly available. Don't > just work within the parameters of what we commonly associate with these > tools. Don't just accept that looping HAS to sound a certain way. > > Why shouldn't we challenge ourselves - and one another - in a healthy, > respectful, encouraging way, to go beyond what we expect, and what we > already know we can do? > > I haven't seen anything that Kim or Matthias have said that I would > describe as disrespectful to other people's music. Can they be blunt? > You bet. Direct? Absolutely. Fed up with the status quo? For sure. > Challenging? I sure HOPE so. But I think that's how any art form grows > and develops - by having a healthy dissatisfaction with the way things > are already done. > > Maybe this is easy for me to say, Rick, since I've heard both of these > gentlement express their very deep respect and appreciation for your > music. So I know they're not knockin' ya... far from it, in fact. > > Well damn, I guess this is a brain spew and a half. Time to get back to > practicing! > > Hope y'all are well tonight. > > Woo hah, > > --Andre LaFosse > The Echoplex Analysis Pages: > http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP >