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A tangent, perhaps, but a though I had just now . . . Last year sometime I read a book entitled "A History of Knowledge/Past, Present, and Future" by Charles Van Doren. The book is largely, generally about what one might expect -- an overview of major pivotal events and/or ideas in world (mostly western -- alas) history. The one pertinent reason I bring it up at this time is just one predictive idea that was proposed in the very short final chapter "The next 100 years." The author goes out on a limb somewhat here and makes some predictions of the future that we are already in this little LD group beginning to see the very germination of in terms of human culture and activity. He talks about it in various indirect ways, but the idea (basically) is this: computers and technology are so becoming an extension of ourselves, vastly adding new capabilities to individual people -- and will so insinuate itself completely into every possible human activity (including the arts) as to increase and/or amplify an individuals performance capabilities, that human potential will be transformed beyond it's current borders -- AND this technology will basically be more or less INDIVISIBLE from the individual. Whatever the hell devices we use to do it . . . looping is an amplification of ourselves. Sure guitar amps and PA systems make us LOUDER but loopers make us more . . . well . . . make more of US -- our musical ideas, our ability to keep a myriad of ideas going simultaneously (real-time input or not) and ability to improvise with big blocks of information (many more notes that 10 fingers can play at a time) chock-a-block, so-to-speak . . . to actually both play an instrument making notes in real time AND improvise and play with larger and larger chunks of the "big picture" of composition at the same time. Van Doren speaks of the end of the next 100 years as being a time when we have "companion computers" that we wear (or are incorporated into us physically) that help us THINK, put whole libraries in our heads, whole histories in our memories, new abilities at our fingertips, whole new art forms in our imaginations. I dunno about that . . . Admittedly the current crop of loopers are waaaaaay more primitive than any of that business. But it is kinda interesting that, whatever our "input device" -- be it a Stratocaster, a turntable, or a qwerty keyboard -- these things (looping device) become sortta connected to us by umbilicals (both of physical wires and invisible, mental ones -- ideas) to enable us to be MORE of ourselves. Because at the heart of it is still an artist of some sort. An audience's enjoyment is not necessarily helped or hindered by the knowledge that a given performer's abilities have been enhanced by looping/sampling technology. As far as the musical listening experience is concerned it may well nigh be invisible -- perhaps even should be. And stylistically . . . perhaps . . . the kind of music is pretty irrelevant (though, like electricity and rock 'n' roll, looping -- as it advances -- may usher in some new, as yet unknown, kinds and styles of music. Looping may be morphed entirely and folded into something else we haven't even imagined yet as a concept. Looping isn't an "art form" in itself . . . at least not yet anyway (IMHO). We're right at the moment that it is still just another tool . . . like when some ancient ancestor found that he could throw a small sharp rock with a lot more lethal power if it were attached to a pole (making a spear). But that doesn't mean that when it really, finally becomes part of us (say in a 100 years) that it won't be. Perhaps Andre is closer to that goal than any of us -- and even he doesn't think of it as a separate art form yet. I think looping will eventually become as much a part of music (of every kind) as electricity itself. And just as little consideration will be given it as we might give questions of what sort of wattage/voltage/amperage consumption is occurring at any given time by a band on a stage. Unless there is a shortage or there's a worry about blowing a fuse, nobody ever thinks about it --certainly not the audience. Looping will eventually be ubiquitous -- and it will be nearly invisible (or at least go practically unnoticed). It will be just another aspect of what musicians do. Something I do think of as an art form however is: the art of designing looping devices and technologies. Right now the people who design the tools we are increasingly coming to depend on are the real "looping as art form" artists. That means you Matthias and Kim, et al. Cheers, Ted Killian Ted Killian http://www.mp3s.com/tedkillian http://www.pfmentum.com/flux.htm