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Alex, This sounds remarkably close to the effect I used to get with the Serge Modular Smooth and Stepped Generator (if I read you correctly). Something like a random sample and hold that sounds like an ever evolving pattern. The small fluctuations in the analog circuitry would hold the pattern steady for a while and then inexplicably alter them a little. Ah, the beauty of analog gear... I like your description of it as a barber pole type illusion. BTW, is this the same Alex Stahl who attended Evergreen in the late 70's? SVG One loopish technique that I learned on the Putney and still think about when thinking about ways to extending digital audio loop techniques, is the stairstep LFO 'sequencer' effect. You take two subsonic sawtooth waves and set the shape of one so it is an ascending ramp and the other descending. You combine both of these waves and modulate the pitch of an oscillator and/or a filter with both of them. Then you tweak the amplitudes (the knob layout makes this all really easy to do) so that the rising wave going in one direction exactly cancels the slope of the other ramp. You end up with a cyclic sequence of voltage steps, and there are infinite fine-tuning possibilities. It is practically impossible to set one analog LFO to say, exactly five times as fast and five times lower amplitude than the other. If you could you would get a simple five-note arpeggio. Instead, you get into various "barber pole" illusions as the steps sort of slide around and create larger patterns. I am giving up on describing this verbally at this point, but it is a very simple yet deep technique from the school of combining slightly different-length cycles. A lot of this kind of VCS3 synth-looping can be heard on Dark Side of the Moon. -Alex S. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/